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Most Competent and Incompetent Leaders in the Game *Possible Spoilers*
holyknight22
Member Posts: 174 Arc User
I was wondering in your opinion who are presented as the most capable and incompetent leaders in the game. We have seen a wide variety of leaders (most military) and some of them leave much to be desired. Without further ado, here is the list.
TOS Era:
Admiral Isaac Garret - Commander USS Yorktown during the Battle of Caleb IV
Commander Kor - Commander IKS Klothos during the Battle of Caleb IV
Before Iconian War (Klingon);
Admiral B'Vat - Arch-nemesis of Federation main character
Captain Jarrod - Leader of the House of Duras, commander of the KDF 7th Fleet during the Borg Capaigns
Amabassador Sta'sass - Dominion Table Jumper Killer, Ambassador during Khitomer, DS9, and Jenolen Conferences
Before IW (Federation):
Admiral T'Nae - Commander SB39 and overall commander during the Battle of Vulcan
Captain Kurland - Kurland was here during the Battle of Deep Space Nine
Ambassador Surighara - Federation Ambassador to Khitomer, Sela's Conference, and Jenolen Conferences
Before IW (Romulan Republic/Star Empire):
Commander Hakeev - Leader of the Tal'Shiar
Empress Sela - The Sela-meister herself
Commander Temek - Original leader of RR Fleet Forces
SubCommander Nadal - Commander Romulan Forces First Battle of New Romulus
Commander Obisek - Leader of Reman Resistance
Iconian War:
Captain Nog - Commander SF Core of Engineering
Captain Paris - Commander Elite Allied Battlegroup
Brigadier General Kagran - Planner and Supreme Commander Allied Forces
Personally, I think Ambassador Sta'sass is one of the most competent leaders in the game. He is instrumental to the KDF Khitomer Conference, helps saves the delegates at the DS9 Conference, and gets the Federation to admit their ignorance to the threat posed by the Undine.
For the most incompetent, I'm probably going to go with Ambassador Surigara. He just talks and talks and gets duped more than a noob in ISA.
Your thoughts?
TOS Era:
Admiral Isaac Garret - Commander USS Yorktown during the Battle of Caleb IV
Commander Kor - Commander IKS Klothos during the Battle of Caleb IV
Before Iconian War (Klingon);
Admiral B'Vat - Arch-nemesis of Federation main character
Captain Jarrod - Leader of the House of Duras, commander of the KDF 7th Fleet during the Borg Capaigns
Amabassador Sta'sass - Dominion Table Jumper Killer, Ambassador during Khitomer, DS9, and Jenolen Conferences
Before IW (Federation):
Admiral T'Nae - Commander SB39 and overall commander during the Battle of Vulcan
Captain Kurland - Kurland was here during the Battle of Deep Space Nine
Ambassador Surighara - Federation Ambassador to Khitomer, Sela's Conference, and Jenolen Conferences
Before IW (Romulan Republic/Star Empire):
Commander Hakeev - Leader of the Tal'Shiar
Empress Sela - The Sela-meister herself
Commander Temek - Original leader of RR Fleet Forces
SubCommander Nadal - Commander Romulan Forces First Battle of New Romulus
Commander Obisek - Leader of Reman Resistance
Iconian War:
Captain Nog - Commander SF Core of Engineering
Captain Paris - Commander Elite Allied Battlegroup
Brigadier General Kagran - Planner and Supreme Commander Allied Forces
Personally, I think Ambassador Sta'sass is one of the most competent leaders in the game. He is instrumental to the KDF Khitomer Conference, helps saves the delegates at the DS9 Conference, and gets the Federation to admit their ignorance to the threat posed by the Undine.
For the most incompetent, I'm probably going to go with Ambassador Surigara. He just talks and talks and gets duped more than a noob in ISA.
Your thoughts?
Post edited by holyknight22 on
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This guy deserves to be shot for the **** be told us to do during the Iconian War.
Vk'yl Shon : He has lived up to the legacy and added to it as captain of the enterprise perfect man for the chair.
T'nae : The lady has proven wise and the defense of vulcan even though the odds were against her stratagy was brilliant.
Jar'rod : His battles against the borg and the honor he showed while doing it has restored imo the house of duras to a place of honor.
Obisek : He is a warrior and brilliant tactician
there are others but these stick out in my mind
Incompetent
Kurland : He has proven a terrible commander of DS9 its like he puts out a door mat that says "Welcome please invade us"
K'gan : Or as i call him captain Kamakaze he sends the entire fleet on a suicide run he knows will fail from the start , then he does it again and again and again and again wash rinse repeat.
J'Mpok : For starting the war with the federation even though there was no need, had he just shown the federation proof that wouldve been enough to convince them there was a problem, however j'mpok did not and it made a bad situation even worse allowing the undine to infiltrate easier.
Sela : In short she is her own worst enemy
Hakeev : Though his name reminds me of someone sneezing this clown ensures the icoanin war , never relising the iconians were just going to obliterate the romulans anyways lol
ok i will end there because i cant think of anymore atm
S'taass, Obisek, Kurland, Shon - those are guys I'd trust. I also think that Jarod and Koren, Shon't Rom and Klink counterparts seem pretty okay.
Hakeev, Karen Andrews, and most especially completely displaced Jugihara - not so much. J'mpok also seems a tad on the Kink cliché side.
Trustworthy - The guy you would raise a mug of ale/beer/bloodwine with after the battle is done, no matter which side he/she was on.
Simply Annoying - Though many would say "Kurland Here", I'm afraid this special battlefield title has to go to Captain Shon (or his counterparts) for valiantly sticking their nose into Tau Dewa patrols with such worthy comments as "These guys picked the wrong system ...." then taking an eternity to carry out their promise of "We'll back you up!". Kurland was at least there in spirit with us at DS9 and attempting to make us feel less isolated.
My character Tsin'xing
Once again, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you. J'mpok's conduct is only a failure if you assume his aim was to militarily defeat the Federation. Otherwise, I'd argue he's one of the most forward-looking and effective leaders in Klingon history.
He comes to power over Martok, who had been brought down by his association with the Federation, and Klingon infighting is building. So J'mpok makes a show of starting a war with the Federation - pacifying his own hardliners, and forcing the Federation onto a war footing which it will need against the looming threats of the Borg, Undine and later Iconians. However, J'mpok's "war" is limited to skirmishes and cross border raids, so he does not spend the strength of either Starfleet or the KDF in pointless combats. To the Federation it's a major affront but by Klingon standards, grabbing afew border sectors is trivial. In the meantime, his personal troops - the Honor Guard - are committed as part of a Klingon fleet alongside Starfleet against a real enemy, the Borg. J'mpok thus maneuvers both the Empire and Federation into being battle-ready when the real assaults from the Undine and Iconians come. In the meantime, he takes the Gorn and turns them from enemies to being a valuable asset within the Empire, while keeping their not-inconsiderable fleet in being. With similar measures incorporating the Ferasans, Nausicaans and Orions, he builds a network of allied races in a decade which took the Federation a century to integrate. Oh, and he roots out subversive RSE sympathisers. I'd argue he's a political genius, able to manipulate the character of both his own Empire and the Federation to ensure their survival.
What about the time J'mpok accused Martok to weaken the Empire by appointing Worf, a Dominion War veteran, as commander of a fleet, just because said fleet got curbstomped by a gigantic Romulan-Borg vessel piloted by Nero?
What about the time J'mpok gathered a fleet to invade the Zeta Pictoris system, which led to said fleet getting repelled by Romulans? (kinda like what happened to Worf, ironically)
What about the time he called for a full-scale invasion against the Gorn Hegemony? (the Gorn stroke first by invading the Ogat planet, but it's still asking for a full-scale invasion)
What about the time he accepted the support of the House of Torg, a known Romulan collaborator whose adopted son, Ja'rod, was of House of Duras, whose reputation in treachery is quite infamous?
What about the time J'mpok kicked Worf out of the Great Hall?
What about the time J'mpok killed Martok during a meeting where he was trying to avoid the Civil War that happened after K'mpec's death? You can argue it was in his right, but it's still suspicious.
What about the time J'mpok decided to ally himself with the Orion Syndicate, whose infamous reputation is well-documented?
What about that time when a terrorist attack killed Ambassador K'mtok, coincidentally appointed by Martok himself, during Federation-mediated negociations regarding the Gorn conflict, and ended all hopes of cease-fire?
What about that time when J'mpok pulled the same trick Gowron did with Cardassia: Invading someone, asking for Federation help and when the Federation refuses without concrete proof, withdrawing from the Khitomer Accords?
What about that time where J'mpok ordered a whole House to be destroyed because its head was an Undine?
What about that time J'mpok wanted the Federation to give him back the Hromi Cluster?
Also, Omega Force was created by D'Vak, son of Alexander. He obtained approval from Starfleet Command to approach the Klingon Empire and request help to fight the Borg. To his credit, J'mpok accepted.
You always win (except when your less competent superiors force you to retreat mid-slaughter) and you never lose any of your men doing it.
Admiral Tuvok, excellent commander in chief
T'Nae, The Battle of Vulcan was her masterpiece
Captain Paris, excellent unconventional tactician
Shon, he swallowed his pride and admitted the Federation was wrong about the Undine.
Gaul, His strategy nearly conquered the Delta Quadrant
Incompetent:
Kagran, A suicidal frontal assault against an enemy who outguns and and outnumbers you is not good strategy
Sela, She created this whole mess
Garrett, Falling for an obvious ambush at Caleb IV
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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No offence taken. It boils down to the difference between Klingon and Federation politics; all of your points, one could argue, fall into the bracket of J'mpok effectively manipulating his enemies. The "war" with the Federation is, I'd argue, exactly that - by Klingon standards a token effort to unify the Empire's factions, without really grinding down either military. J'mpok is no fool, and whatever their posturing most in the Empire know that a full-scale war against the Federation would be an insanely difficult proposition. And the moment the Federation accepted they were wrong about the Undine, it's back to a full-on alliance.
I'd argue that (unlike, say, Gowron) at no point has he put his own profit ahead of the welfare of the Empire. Martok was fatally wounded as a leader - thanks, ironically, to a lack of support from the Federation - when J'mpok deposed him. Heck, there's still the very odd "closed room succession" (two walk in, one walks out) which make it possible that Martok wanted J'mpok to succeed him. Remember, these are the Klingons we're talking about - knifing Martok in public would have been entirely acceptable.
I'm not saying J'mpok is a good guy, but an effective leader in a Ghengis Khan type of way
The enemy has superior forces, superior mobility and can ensure superior numbers wherever it chooses to engage you, and only a single fortified base of operations that it needs to conduct its operation. It's the only place of strategic value to the Iconian war effort. (At least after you averted that Solanae Incursion*.)
The only way to beat it before it whittles you down completely is striking that base and hoping at dealing enough damage that their advantages wane.
There isn't anything else.
Sure, people suggest: "Hey, how about we turn the star in the center of the Herald Sphere into a supernova"? Well, that is great idea,if you have any supernova bombs at the ready. But apparently you do not, otherwise someone would have suggested it (for example, your character).
The only superweapon available during the entire war was that Annorax Temporal Vessel, it wasn't finished yet, and it wasn't a sure bet. Waiting for it means having even less forces to launch an assault at the enemies only strategically relevant location.
*) That's actually an example of really bad leadership on the Iconian side. They should have focused a much larger part of their fleet there to protect the base.
Tough one.
Garret: was too used to things being easy. A lone rogue Klingon etc. The way he approached the Klingons was a bit sloppy and he fell into a trap. By dumb luck one ship gets loose and frees the others and he orders a full retreat with one ship staying behind to cover him. That felt like cowardice. But hey he got word of Klingon cloaking devices back to the Federation and left a fleet on their doorstep. No errors there right? One ship should have run carrying the news and calling an alert. While the rest slowed and disabled what they can and no one left behind.
Hakeev: As mentally dysfunctional as the man seemed. He was succeeding against the NPCs. Only the PC seemed to truly vex him. So sadly I have to say, mad or not he was competent.
B'Vat: Another one that seemed to be getting another TRIBBLE loose. Or was he? Look on the alt time lines and he is the model of a Klingon warrior. I think his 'insanity' was a show. He had already met his future self and knew who was destined to kill him in battle. And he was destined to cure the genetic effects that smoothed the Klingon brows. As his opponent from the Federation I think he did what he did to ensure the future and lead us to where he needed us to be. So an effective leader.
St'TRIBBLE: A good fighter and patient planner to be sure. If there is a fire fight I want him backing me up no matter my affiliation. But name one treaty he actually negotiated to the empire's benefit? Or even finished before another diplomat stepped in? So good man, wrong job.
Jarrod: No ones fool. Brave, capable and determined. Compared to him Koren comes off as a whining pet'aq. Enough said.
J'mpok: His honour has a small stain from his battle with Martok being behind closed doors and alone. He follows a level of blindness other Klingons share. He believes something there fore it is true. Doubting him is to call him a liar and impugn his honour. Seen in the not providing proof about the undine and breaking treaties when the Federation asks for it. But he rewards honour with a measure of trust and punishes dishonour swiftly. As seen in his treaty with the RR and his weighing evidence and hearing testimony on the house of Torg. He may be proud and have faults. But he comes across as competent.
Quinn: What does this man do? He sends the PCs out on missions and takes reports and seems shocked at the content of those reports often. Interaction with NPCs almost none and even there seems befuddled. Sadly have to put him at incompetent for his job.
So many others but I think this is good for now.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
My character Tsin'xing
The only thing against the use is it may have been hushed down historically so few even know it properly existed anymore. Let alone the specs to build another. After all if it was still tech being played with, Federation terra formers should be doing far more than using a laser to desalinate subsurface water as part of their work.
But the part about barring a super weapon and finding a proper conventional means of success means not making plans of. Send in the clone of our messiah to sword fight the enemy.
Instead use cloaked vessels with commando teams to get in a sabotage key elements. And while the cloakless Federation pummels the fleets. The Klingon and Romulan forces move in under cloak to bombard the sphere. If they get targeted they cloak and move to a new target area. Tactics if you can't out power your opponent.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Well, besides fleet admiral M'Zowla then, some of my favorite leaders in the game are
- Tuvok. He's not even a diplomat yet takes all the initiative and is therefore responsible for both holding together the Alpha Alliance before the Undine war and the establishment of the Delta Alliance.
- T'Nae. Some don't like her attitude towards Romulans, but she's right in her skepticism.
- Kagran.
- J'mpok. Although his political games (instead of handing over proof regarding the Undine invasion) that resulted in the Klingon-Federation war are not really great. He's no Gorkon or Martok but he's a good leader and you can't deny the fact that he made the Klingon Empire an even more important player in interstellar affairs than before.
- Worf. Because he's Worf. Also, simply the best character in Sphere of Influence because he's the only one actually doing something.
- L'Miren. The only Iconian of the three important ones who seemed to consider saving their culture the most important thing (as opposed to revenge).
- Whoever is in charge of both ship production and design, as well as war efforts in general. I don't know how they do it, but they've managed to get us through a conflict with almost the entire known part of the Galaxy and everyone that's in it.
Worst leaders:
- Okeg. Didn't show up during all those meetings when he should have.
- Burgess. Only handed out missions without ever actually involving himself actively with the war in the DQ. And his accent of course, another reason why I'd never follow him
- Whoever is in charge of the Temporal Investigations Department and the whole Temporal Cold War thing. And with that, all known Temporal Agents who maintain their own problems while telling one-sided stories and leaving out the other half. The only one that's slightly tolerable and somewhat competent is Walker because he actually did his job right in Temporal Ambassador and he's usually just cleaning up others' mess (including Daniels').
- Quinn. The moment he's wondering what Noye could be up to (which we found out in the same mission), he basically admitted that he doesn't even read his paper work while sitting at his desk all day long.
Qapla'!