A History of the Borg

hawkwing43 · December 2016

Yes, a history of one of Treks biggest bad guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNxPTk9gR54

jorantomalak · December 2016

wait the borg ...biggest bad guys? O.o

Voyager kinda made them into LOLcats and STO turned them into punching bags lol

hawkwing43 · December 2016

jorantomalak wrote: »

wait the borg ...biggest bad guys? O.o

Voyager kinda made them into LOLcats and STO turned them into punching bags lol

Don't sell the Borg short, just when you think they are nothing. Here they come with something bigger and badder than the last time you seen them.

theraven2378 · December 2016

My 12 gauge zeffy shotgun and away team full of tr-116s disagree. Every ground battle against the collective is a turkey shoot

mhall85 · December 2016

I'm struck that this video didn't bring up the "Borg as a warped Federation" idea.

Yes, he does bring up the "warped version of humanity"... but, he comments too closely to his comments about technology.

The Borg aren't just like us because of their love of/reliance on technology. They are like us because of their (granted, WARPED) sense of inclusion, desire to gain knowledge, and the desire to better the whole.

alexmakepeace · December 2016

mhall85 wrote: »

I'm struck that this video didn't bring up the "Borg as a warped Federation" idea.

Yes, he does bring up the "warped version of humanity"... but, he comments too closely to his comments about technology.

The Borg aren't just like us because of their love of/reliance on technology. They are like us because of their (granted, WARPED) sense of inclusion, desire to gain knowledge, and the desire to better the whole.

I kind of think of the Borg as an analogy for Westernization (as perceived by the Star Trek writers): A faceless force that sweeps across cultures and strips them of their uniqueness and individuality, reconfiguring them and absorbing them while remaining relatively unchanged by the cultures it supplants, and having no real understanding of the damage it does or why cultures might resist. The Locutus actually asks "Why do you resist us? We merely wish to raise quality of life for all beings."

markhawkman · December 2016

but is it really unchanged? Cultures always change when they encounter other cultures. Realistically, to learn about another culture is to be changed by it.

starkaos · December 2016

The United Federation of Planets could be considered the same as the Borg Collective except with better PR and perks. The Federation assimilates species and their technology into the Federation for the "greater good". They are even assimilating the biological distinctiveness with Torres, Troi, Spock, and quite a few people from the future. Will there be any humans in the 41st Century or will they be a mix of Human, Vulcan, Horta, Medusan, Tribble, and Changeling DNA or some other weird combination?

We are the United Federation of Planets.....surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

alexmakepeace · December 2016

markhawkman wrote: »

but is it really unchanged? Cultures always change when they encounter other cultures. Realistically, to learn about another culture is to be changed by it.

Yeah, but that's not what a lot of people see when they look at Westernization (especially on the left side of the politica spectrum where Star Trek writers tend to fall). They see it as a loss of culture, not a blending of culture. In fact, the term "assimilation" that the Borg use is an anthropology term used to describe when a minority group has adopted the culture of a majority group to the point where it is no longer distinguishable from the majority.

It always seemed odd to me that despite their philosophy of absorbing and adapting the things they encounter, the Borg don't really seem to actually display any of the distinctiveness they're supposedly adapting. Those assimilated become Borg, but the Borg never gain anything of those cultures' talents.

markhawkman · December 2016

alexmakepeace wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

but is it really unchanged? Cultures always change when they encounter other cultures. Realistically, to learn about another culture is to be changed by it.

Yeah, but that's not what a lot of people see when they look at Westernization (especially on the left side of the politica spectrum where Star Trek writers tend to fall). They see it as a loss of culture, not a blending of culture. In fact, the term "assimilation" that the Borg use is an anthropology term used to describe when a minority group has adopted the culture of a majority group to the point where it is no longer distinguishable from the majority.

It always seemed odd to me that despite their philosophy of absorbing and adapting the things they encounter, the Borg don't really seem to actually display any of the distinctiveness they're supposedly adapting. Those assimilated become Borg, but the Borg never gain anything of those cultures' talents.

Here's a fun question for you... how many words in the English language are derived from Nahuatl?(the language of the Aztecs and Incas) There's one in particular that you probably use often, perhaps even today....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_from_indigenous_languages_of_the_Americas

hawku001x · December 2016

The Borg? They sound Sweedish.

legendarylycan · December 2016

markhawkman wrote: »

alexmakepeace wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

but is it really unchanged? Cultures always change when they encounter other cultures. Realistically, to learn about another culture is to be changed by it.

Yeah, but that's not what a lot of people see when they look at Westernization (especially on the left side of the politica spectrum where Star Trek writers tend to fall). They see it as a loss of culture, not a blending of culture. In fact, the term "assimilation" that the Borg use is an anthropology term used to describe when a minority group has adopted the culture of a majority group to the point where it is no longer distinguishable from the majority.

It always seemed odd to me that despite their philosophy of absorbing and adapting the things they encounter, the Borg don't really seem to actually display any of the distinctiveness they're supposedly adapting. Those assimilated become Borg, but the Borg never gain anything of those cultures' talents.

Here's a fun question for you... how many words in the English language are derived from Nahuatl?(the language of the Aztecs and Incas) There's one in particular that you probably use often, perhaps even today....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_from_indigenous_languages_of_the_Americas

i see a lot of words under that nahuatl language i see and use every day, or at least every few days, not just one

alexmakepeace · December 2016

markhawkman wrote: »

alexmakepeace wrote: »

markhawkman wrote: »

but is it really unchanged? Cultures always change when they encounter other cultures. Realistically, to learn about another culture is to be changed by it.

Yeah, but that's not what a lot of people see when they look at Westernization (especially on the left side of the politica spectrum where Star Trek writers tend to fall). They see it as a loss of culture, not a blending of culture. In fact, the term "assimilation" that the Borg use is an anthropology term used to describe when a minority group has adopted the culture of a majority group to the point where it is no longer distinguishable from the majority.

It always seemed odd to me that despite their philosophy of absorbing and adapting the things they encounter, the Borg don't really seem to actually display any of the distinctiveness they're supposedly adapting. Those assimilated become Borg, but the Borg never gain anything of those cultures' talents.

Here's a fun question for you... how many words in the English language are derived from Nahuatl?(the language of the Aztecs and Incas) There's one in particular that you probably use often, perhaps even today....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_from_indigenous_languages_of_the_Americas

Oh yeah. And don't even get me started on place names... or the various food styles we've adapted to our own palate ("Mexican" food, "Chinese" food, etc.). It doesn't escape me that Mr. Build-a-Wall Trump lapses into Spanish on occasion. But my point is that there's a perception of Westernization that I think informed the creation of the Borg.

bwleon7 · December 2016

The one part that bothered me is him saying that having only assimilated 10,000 species shows that the Borg are not that old. However considering the distance between habited worlds and the Federation having been around for over 200 years and not even having come across 500 species I would say it would take a few thousand years to find 10,000 of them.

angrytarg · December 2016

The Borg in their cybernetic form were a comment on technoscepsis. Rodenberry and his vision (although he didn't have anything to do with creating the Borg) were technosceptical due to the fears of workers during the technical changes during the 60s and 70s which continued on. They are a parable of losing one's humanity because they fused with their technology and became not only dependant on it but their whole reason to exist was to seek out and assimilate new technology (The Borg usually did not assimilate people back then, their interest was solely technology. The zombieficiation was a new concept introduced with First Contact because it was more relatable to the cinema audience). Any kind of cultural parable of either westernization or a warped Federation idea is simply fueled by one's own political agenda, but it's not inherent to the creation we look at in TNG.

markhawkman · December 2016

Enh, "perceptions" tend to be wrong. All conclusions not based on evidence usually are. Thus perceptions of how harmful "assimilation" is are usually wrong. IRL the reasons for not liking it can often be summed up as "change is bad".

Now there are certain aspects that are bad, usually things related to forgetting history and stuff. But more often things get better over all.

As for the Borg.... I'd guess that by this point assimilating another race makes such a tiny change to the Collective that it's barely noticeable if you know what to look for.

theraven2378 · December 2016

The Borg are hardly subtle in their methods, where the Federation offers membership freely the Borg force membership through military conquest.

Classic example is the Roman Empire, where the legions conquered the Romans would then Romanize the population afterwards

artan42 · December 2016

alexmakepeace wrote: »

Yeah, but that's not what a lot of people see when they look at Westernization (especially on the left side of the politica spectrum where Star Trek writers tend to fall). They see it as a loss of culture, not a blending of culture. In fact, the term "assimilation" that the Borg use is an anthropology term used to describe when a minority group has adopted the culture of a majority group to the point where it is no longer distinguishable from the majority.

And they'd be wrong. There is no 'western culture', different countries and groups have their own culture within the west. Mexico is in the west, Romania is in the west, France is in the west.

Cultural overwriting is done by any occupying or influential force with a great enough influence. Saudi culture is overwriting SE Asian culture, US culture is overwriting British etc.

jorantomalak · December 2016

starkaos wrote: »

We are the United Federation of Planets.....yeah if you could like surrender your ships?, yeah that would be great *sips coffee*. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own commune of space hippies. Your culture will adapt to service us and we can eat smores and sing kombyah by a camp fire. dude dont resist federation peace love and harmony , we got free space weed and twinkies.

There fixed it for you now thats more federation like lol

mustrumridcully0 · December 2016

The Federation assimilates like this:
"Hey guys. You're interested in joining? We have cool stuff like replicators and holodecks and free healthcare and food and people can basically do whatever they want as long as they stay nice with the other people. I suppose freedom and liberty isn't for everyone, and it might require some changes to your values and the way you do things, so if you don't want to, do your own thing, that's fine, we won't interfere."

Other cultures react like this:
"Woah, free trade, they have replicators and holodecks and free healthcare and food and people there can do basically anything. Why didn't we think of that?! What do we need to do to get into that?!"

The Borg assimilate like this:
"Resistance is irrelevant. We will assimilate your technology and your culture will serve ours."

Other cultures react like this:
"Wow, they have adapting shields and they turn people into drones without any free will that have to follow the orders of the Collective Mind. How can we get as far away from that as possible?"

---
I figure the Borg actually started with a technophile culture that was really deep into social networking and when they finally had the ability to connect their minds, they were quite enthusiastic about it - and at some point, you were either on Faceborg or you were dead.

antonine3258 · December 2016

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

I figure the Borg actually started with a technophile culture that was really deep into social networking and when they finally had the ability to connect their minds, they were quite enthusiastic about it - and at some point, you were either on Faceborg or you were dead.

And eventually, effectively both.

One thing I like about the Borg is their collective consciousness seems to see adding new strains and technology as mutualism; rather than just some villainous superiority. They don't (metaphorically) wake up everyday and say 'now to crush some civilization and maybe assimilate some puppies'. They see it as 'another group to uplift and take the best aspects of to improve everyone (which includes assimilating the puppies, admittedly).

angrytarg · December 2016

antonine3258 wrote: »

And eventually, effectively both. One thing I like about the Borg is their collective consciousness seems to see adding new strains and technology as mutualism; rather than just some villainous superiority. They don't (metaphorically) wake up everyday and say 'now to crush some civilization and maybe assimilate some puppies'. They see it as 'another group to uplift and take the best aspects of to improve everyone (which includes assimilating the puppies, admittedly).

When they are first portrayed, the Borg (as a single entity, the super user) act more like an animal. It searches for technology and consumes it, then moves on. Biological lifeforms were of no concern as back then Borg did procreate. The borg wasn't malevolent at all, it was more akin to a force of nature. Like a bear taking your picknick basket. It doesn't want to ruin your day, but it wants to eat that. And if you stand between it and the basket, chances are it'll kill you - remember, the very first sentence transmitted by the Borg was "If you defend yourselves, you will be punished.". (This is not how actual bears work. But you get the metaphor).

The Borg wasn't a villian. But the writers made it one and thus ruined a great concept.

A History of the Borg

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