test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Is there a special forces division of Starfleet

2»

Comments

  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,845 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    In the Prime Directive role playing game, a spin off of Star Fleet Battles & wholely non- canon naturally, most starships had a dedicated special operations squad aboard known as a "Prime Team". Their training did also include diplomacy & first contact scenarios as well as combat, hostage rescue, and so on.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive_(role-playing_game)

    It seems like this is pretty much what Voxager: Elite Force tried to emulate with the "Hazard Team". Although in the latter case it made more sense due to the circumstances, the "Prime Team" idea falls short - in my personal opinion - because it simply seems superflous. All those tasks are already covered. The Hazard Team was born out of necessity due to a inherent low and limited crew compartiment. In EF 2 though it is said the idea was adapted Starfleet-wide, but essentially they were still regular officers only wearing special gear. They weren't all that "special forces" when you look at the characters, Cheng (or something like that, the Bolian engineer) would for example regularily panic in combat situations (but save the day through engineering finesse anyway).​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Starfleet Security should be able to adequately do the job.
    Key-word being 'should'... The fact that Starfleet Intelligence canonically tasks mainline officers with fieldword, suggests that Starfleet Security can't adequately do the job (but that's not surprizing, there's a big difference between a bouncer/bodyguard, and a Special Ops-trained individual...)

    Litton thought they were perfectly adequate for his military coup.
    Against an un-armed pacifist civilian population... It's the equivalent of sending mall-cops to stand guard over a hippie's peaceful protest! :D
    artan42 wrote: »

    Why wouldn't SS be able to do whatever Picard and Crusher were picked to do?
    Because Plot, that's why... ;)
    artan42 wrote: »
    An 80 year old man with a heart condition and a non-combat trained doctor didn't exactly put up a great showing in the episode did they? Unlike Worf, who is SS trained and a member of that department until DS9.
    Tuvok has some pretty extensive contingency training for all sorts of issues, some requiring similar skills to Picard and Crusher, but that succeeded.​​
    That's because Tuvok's a badass... ;) Tuvok makes Worf and Tasha both look like amateurs... ;) Oh, and FYI, Picard didn't have a heart condition... If he had a heart condition, he wouldn't be allowed to serve front-line... He had an artificial heart, yes, and because he had an artificial heart, he didn't have a heart condition... I daresay Picard had the healthiest cardiopulmonary system on the ship ;)

  • themadprofessor#9835 themadprofessor Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    Starfleet NEEDS a SpecOps division that isn't Section 31 or MACO ground troops. I'm talking full on training in weapons use, hostile environment survival, SERE school, space jumps, improvised weaponry, multiple martial arts, basically the 25th century equivalent of classical Spartan training. The kind of training that would make modern SAS, GSG9, Spetznas, Delta Force, and the Mossad weep in agony. This is the kind of group where a squad of four would be all you need to take down nearly any threat. Most applicants will wash out and return to standard Starfleet duties, but the few that make it through will join the ranks of the best of the best, to join those honored heroes whom even the warriors in Sto'Vo'Kor would both welcome to their hall and fear.

    That is what Starfleet needs.

    so basically...the hazard team

    because that's exactly what you just described​​

    No. Hazard Team is good, but comparing them to what I'm thinking of would be like comparing a SWAT team to SEAL Team 6.

    My group would go through training explicitly designed to break you. Years of training in differing gravities, ranging from 0.7 to 4.5g, modified Borg implants, genetic tinkering a la Julian Bashir, psychological evaluation, intelligence testing, etc. I have it all written down somewhere at home. I'll take a look into it when I get there.
    Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.

    Things I want in STO:

    1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
    2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
    3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
    4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
    5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
    6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
    7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
    8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,845 Arc User
    No. Hazard Team is good, but comparing them to what I'm thinking of would be like comparing a SWAT team to SEAL Team 6.

    My group would go through training explicitly designed to break you. Years of training in differing gravities, ranging from 0.7 to 4.5g, modified Borg implants, genetic tinkering a la Julian Bashir, psychological evaluation, intelligence testing, etc. I have it all written down somewhere at home. I'll take a look into it when I get there.

    That sounds reasonable. At least your username checks out pig-2.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    The guys in TFF were just Starfleet Security from the Enterprise in an excursion uniform, no different from any other excursion uniform in the show. Notice how Kirk and the others also wear it. Their weapons are no more 'assault phasers' (despite the common fan name) than any other phaser. Honestly, just because they click and make exciting noises when you load them, dosn't make them any more tactical. Also notice that by the next film they're so common a side arm that there's a case in a kitchen.

    Other than that, for the first time ever, you seem to present a salient point. Obviously it helps that it's somebody elses point that you're posting, but all the same...​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,845 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    The guys in TFF were just Starfleet Security from the Enterprise in an excursion uniform, no different from any other excursion uniform in the show. Notice how Kirk and the others also wear it. Their weapons are no more 'assault phasers' (despite the common fan name) than any other phaser. Honestly, just because they click and make exciting noises when you load them, dosn't make them any more tactical. Also notice that by the next film they're so common a side arm that there's a case in a kitchen.

    Other than that, for the first time ever, you seem to present a salient point. Obviously it helps that it's somebody elses point that you're posting, but all the same...

    What? But that's what this is all about! Having clicky gear, snazzy uniforms and hear a theme song play when you jump out your transport. That's why everyone wants it so badly pig-2.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,005 Arc User
    To be fair all senior officers beaming down is pretty stupid...especially when they don't take any security....Wrath of Khan Reliant crew I'm looking at you...
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,005 Arc User
    Just because they are described as a SWAT team doesn't mean they aren't part of the ship's security team. When I was in the Navy my ships had a specialized team of people who would defend the ship and carry out boarding of over vessels.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,845 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    I'm sure in the navy or whatever service you (in general, not aimed at khan or anyone in particular) were in were also special teams to fight fires, fix broken things and to peel potatoes. All part of the same service. Why are so many people calling dofferent service because some officers pick up special gear? In TOS redshirt security would use mortars in ground combat...
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,005 Arc User
    This is correct.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    First, see this source for what the security personnel really were:
    Laughed Greg Jein, "There were a lot of things we wanted to build into the new phasers, to make them more believable as a weapon than a squirtgun. In one scene, a Federation SWAT team is preparing an assault, and the new phasers give the feeling of an old war movie.". . .

    Translation: See this source for a guess as to what they were. Contradicted of course by their complete lack of special weapons (standard firearms remember) or tactics (Red Shirt Rush TM)

    Translation: I don't need to make actual points any more, my link spam should do adequately.
    Lastly, the blog has already addressed the inclusion of the senior officers.

    It's a fan blog written entirely of personal opinion.

    No, they are very different from the previous phasers. See this source for confirmation:
    Liam Kavanagh has recently turned up the following information from The Making of the Trek Films, edited by Edward Gross: "William Shatner's hoped for revolutionary approach to Star Trek V extended to such things as the crew's hand held weapony, the phasers, which are a far cry from the small plastic weapons of the earlier films and TV series: big, black and very dangerous looking, they may well change the look of STAR TREK hardware to come.

    "I didn't want them to be squirt-guns," said Shatner. "I wanted them to be .45's. We load them on camera and you can run out of power - you can run out of bullets, in other words. It makes sense. So we could have a gun, and then not have a gun. Also, I wanted the phasers to sound differently, too. Instead of tinkling, I wanted them to crackle."

    You realise your wall of text has not altered a single part of my point? They are not military weapons just because they are exciting or because they detail or because they slide and click. Having them look like weapons was a style choice to set them apart from older models, not wish fulfilment for your military fetish.

    If you read the quote you posted you'll see the specification is to make them look and sound powerful and more like an actual weapon than previous phasers.
    Furthermore, "Assault Phaser" is what the prop's makers themselves officially call it. See RACprops: The Final Frontier by Richard Coyle:
    Greg Jein mastered and made the Assault Phaser, Ed [Miarecki] was hired to make the machined metal parts and I was hired to build the lighting system with the working trigger.

    Being common in the next film and available in a kitchen locker does not change these facts.

    I understand that's what they are referred to by the makers. However the TNG ones are called Dustbusters by the production staff and the FC ones Cobras. That's does not mean the former can clean the house and the latter have venomous fangs in terms of the show.

    Being common and available in a kitchen locker proves they are the new common phaser and not some sort of SWAT gun you seem to think they are. They are standard issue sidearms.
    [/indent]

    Considering the title of this discussion, the Federation (Starfleet) SWAT team from TFF is as close as it gets. It means that the SWAT team gets special training, beyond typical Starfleet security officers.

    Considering you've failed to show how they use any special weapons or tactics (thus preventing them from being a SWAT team) you've also failed to show them performing any tactics not shown by normal red shirts.
    angrytarg wrote: »
    In TOS redshirt security would use mortars in ground combat...

    The ones at the siege of AR-558 seemed to be doing a reasonable job as soldiers. Not bad for Security Officers.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • highlord83highlord83 Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »
    Working on an idea and wanted to make sure it wasn't already done

    Starfleet SF is essentially the MACOS, with the Omega Commandos being the specialist section of MACO.

    As a whole though, Feddie-bear "special forces" could be summed up as "The people that are actually militarily competent." Even the bottom-of-the-class MACO soldiers look like SEALS when compared to Starfleet Security.
    "So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
    -Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    artan42 wrote: »
    First, see this source for what the security personnel really were:
    Laughed Greg Jein, "There were a lot of things we wanted to build into the new phasers, to make them more believable as a weapon than a squirtgun. In one scene, a Federation SWAT team is preparing an assault, and the new phasers give the feeling of an old war movie.". . .

    Translation: See this source for a guess as to what they were. Contradicted of course by their complete lack of special weapons (standard firearms remember) or tactics (Red Shirt Rush TM)

    Translation: I don't need to make actual points any more, my link spam should do adequately.
    Lastly, the blog has already addressed the inclusion of the senior officers.

    It's a fan blog written entirely of personal opinion.

    No, they are very different from the previous phasers. See this source for confirmation:
    Liam Kavanagh has recently turned up the following information from The Making of the Trek Films, edited by Edward Gross: "William Shatner's hoped for revolutionary approach to Star Trek V extended to such things as the crew's hand held weapony, the phasers, which are a far cry from the small plastic weapons of the earlier films and TV series: big, black and very dangerous looking, they may well change the look of STAR TREK hardware to come.

    "I didn't want them to be squirt-guns," said Shatner. "I wanted them to be .45's. We load them on camera and you can run out of power - you can run out of bullets, in other words. It makes sense. So we could have a gun, and then not have a gun. Also, I wanted the phasers to sound differently, too. Instead of tinkling, I wanted them to crackle."

    You realise your wall of text has not altered a single part of my point? They are not military weapons just because they are exciting or because they detail or because they slide and click. Having them look like weapons was a style choice to set them apart from older models, not wish fulfilment for your military fetish.

    If you read the quote you posted you'll see the specification is to make them look and sound powerful and more like an actual weapon than previous phasers.
    Furthermore, "Assault Phaser" is what the prop's makers themselves officially call it. See RACprops: The Final Frontier by Richard Coyle:
    Greg Jein mastered and made the Assault Phaser, Ed [Miarecki] was hired to make the machined metal parts and I was hired to build the lighting system with the working trigger.

    Being common in the next film and available in a kitchen locker does not change these facts.

    I understand that's what they are referred to by the makers. However the TNG ones are called Dustbusters by the production staff and the FC ones Cobras. That's does not mean the former can clean the house and the latter have venomous fangs in terms of the show.

    Being common and available in a kitchen locker proves they are the new common phaser and not some sort of SWAT gun you seem to think they are. They are standard issue sidearms.
    [/indent]

    Considering the title of this discussion, the Federation (Starfleet) SWAT team from TFF is as close as it gets. It means that the SWAT team gets special training, beyond typical Starfleet security officers.

    Considering you've failed to show how they use any special weapons or tactics (thus preventing them from being a SWAT team) you've also failed to show them performing any tactics not shown by normal red shirts.
    angrytarg wrote: »
    In TOS redshirt security would use mortars in ground combat...

    The ones at the siege of AR-558 seemed to be doing a reasonable job as soldiers. Not bad for Security Officers.
    Those quotes of Shatner, settle the debate, as to the intent of the phasers and their uses... Everything else, is just superfluous to that point... Shatner was the director, so if that was his intention --and those quotes are pretty clear -- there really is no arguing otherwise...
  • themadprofessor#9835 themadprofessor Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    I have it all written down somewhere at home. I'll take a look into it when I get there.

    Found it. The initial genesis of this idea came to me over 10 years ago, but I've made a few tweaks here and there:

    Step One: Separate the Exploration and Diplomatic aspects from Starfleet.

    Federation Military
    Starfleet
    Starfleet Marine Corps (replaces Security personnel)
    Starfighter Command

    Civilian Corps
    Explorers
    Diplomats
    Ambassadors


    Starfleet Vessels

    The older Starfleet ships (Oberths, Mirandas, Excelsiors, etc) would be stripped to bare weaponry and transferred to the Civilian Corps for use as Exploration ships, Diplomatic Vessels, Ambassadorial courier ships, and Trade vessels.

    The newer vessels (Galaxy, Sovereign, Prometheus, etc.) would be heavily militarized (in other words, less flair, more functionality).

    Ships like the Intrepid, Nova, and Nebula Class would be split according to usage. Some would be in the Civilian Corps, others in Starfleet.

    I would ramp up production of the Defiant and Prometheus class, begin production of the below-listed ship classes, and begin integrating the more exotic technologies into existing designs. Also, I’d ensure that every ship has a compliment of between 75 and 1500 Mobile Emitters (depending on vessel size) to allow Emergency Holographic Personnel (Doctors, Engineering, Security, etc) to be activated when needed.


    New and Revamped Technologies

    I'd remove from service the current Dustbuster versions of the Phaser and replace them with a pistolgrip variety, which are more ergonomicallly designed for combat. The smaller phasers would be removed from the military entirely, retooled to never go above the Heavy Stun setting, and issued to the Civilian Corps for self defense.

    I'd take the pulse phaser technology, scale it down to a hand-held size, and integrate it into an SMG type weapon. More powerful versions would be the equivalent of heavy machineguns and autocannons.

    There would be a standard compliment of TR-116 rifles aboard every ship, enough to arm at least half the crew.

    Personal shields would be a must have for any away team with ranking officers amongst them.


    New Military Ship Technologies

    I would scrap the current Federation Tactical Fighter and supplant it with more military oriented craft capable of space and atmospheric flight.

    Valkyrie class Interceptor
    - Single seat Aerospace Interceptor Fighter Craft.
    - Standard Armament: Twin Type V Phaser Emitters, Twin Microtorpedo launchers, 1 exterior hardpoint for mission-specific equipment loadouts
    - Uses: Point Defense, CAP, Reconnaissance

    Fury class Medium Fighter
    - Single/Twin seat Aerospace Combat Fighter Craft
    - Standard Armament: Three Type VI Phaser Emitters (2 fore, 1 aft), Three Microtorpedo launchers (2 fore, 1 aft)
    - Uses: CAP, Recon, Point Defense, Combat Operations, Quick Strike, Medium and Light Interdiction

    Thunderbolt class Assault Fighter
    - Twin seat Aerospace Combat Craft (homage to the 20th century A-10 Thunderbolt II)
    - Standard Armament: Six barrel Type VI Pulse Gatling Phaser, Twin Type VII Phaser Emitters (dorsal and Ventral), Type VI Phaser Emitter (aft), Three Microtorpedo launchers (2 fore, 1 aft), 4 exterior hardpoints, each capable of mounting a photon grenade cluster bomb
    - Uses: Combat Operations, CAP, Planetary Installation Assault, Medium and Heavy Interdiction

    Ares class Light Bomber
    - Twin seat Aerospace Strike Bomber
    - Standard Armament: 3 Double-barrelled Type VI Pulse Phasers, Two Type V Phaser emitters (dorsal and ventral), 2 Microtorpedo launchers, 5 exterior hardpoints, each capable of mounting a single shot photon torpedo launcher or a photon grenade cluster bomb
    - Uses: Combat Operations, Capital Ship bombing runs, Planetary Installation Assault, Heavy Interdiction

    Gryphon class Bomber
    - Twin sear Aerospace Bomber
    - Standard Armament: 2 Type VIII Phaser Emitters, Two Type VII Pulse Phasers, Type VII Phaser Emitter (aft), Microtorpedo launcher, 2 photon torpedo launchers (3 torps each), 6 exterior hardpoints
    - Uses: Combat Operations, Capital Ship bombing runs, Planetary Installation Assault, Heavy Interdiction

    Archangel class Assault Bomber
    - Three seat Aerospace Assault Bomber
    - Standard Armament: Type X Phaser Cannon, Two Type VIII Pulse Phasers, Type VIII Phaser Emitter (aft), 2 torpedo launchers (4 photon or 2 quantum each), 8 exterior hardpoints
    - Uses: Combat Operations, Capital Ship bombing runs, Planetary Installation Assault, Heavy Interdiction

    Carrier Operations would be carried out from the Akira class starship (Valkyries, Thunderbolts, and Ares only) or from a new class, the Starblazer (All craft)

    Starblazer class Carrier
    - Physically three times as long as a Sovereign class
    - Standard Armament: 20 Type XII Phaser Emitters, 35 Type X Phaser Emitters, 15 Turreted Quantum Torpedo Launchers, 125 Turreted Photon Torpedo Launchers, 500 Turreted Type IV Phaser Emitters, 10 Multipurpose Torpedo Launchers (for non standard torpedoes)
    - Crew: 1100 officers and ship crew, 160 pilots on hot standby with 320 more ready to scramble, 90 Air Crew per hangar deck, 300 Marines on duty at any time (total of 900 Marines with a contingency capacity of 5000).
    - Flight Ops: 3 separate hangar decks (Alpha, Beta, and Gamma) with full recovery capabilities and independent operation. Each hanger deck supports two squadrons of pilots. There are, at any given time, 15 Valkyries, 15 Thunderbolts, 15 Furies, 15 Ares, 10 Griffons, and 10 Archangels, for a total of 80 craft per squadron. This translates into an effective force of 480 fighters and bombers per carrier.
    - Marine Landing Operations will be handled by Mass Transporter Technology, where an area the size of four holodecks is converted into a giant transporter array, capable of transporting an entire force of 15,000 Marines into a hot zone inside of three minutes.


    Revamping the training process for both officer and enlisted.

    Starfleet

    Both officers and enlisted would be required to undergo a six month boot camp to familiarize them with the workings of a true military, not a glorified police force. If a cadet or trainee cannot cut it in boot camp, they’re out, either to be a civilian or to join the Civilian Corps. Phaser marksmanship, survival techniques, and hand to hand combat will be taught. The last three weeks will consist of a survival scenario, where the trainees are required to last for an indeterminate amount of time in a “downed ship” scenario before an “enemy force” arrives, forcing them to evade capture.


    Starfighter Command (SC)

    All SC personnel will undergo the six month boot camp that standard Starfleet personnel utilize. Those on flight-duty (pilots, navigators, onboard techs, etc), will also undergo a heavy duty one year survival course to augment their basic training. They will undergo evasion, escape tactics, wilderness survival, and how to survive torture.


    Starfleet Marine Corps (SMC)

    The SMC will undergo a rigorous training that will last five years.

    Year One will be an extended version of Boot Camp, culminating in a one-month survival challenge to determine if you go on.

    Years Two through Four will continue training from Year One and incorporate travel to and training on planets with gravity rating from a quarter of Earth-norm to five times Earth-norm. Trainees will also be taught advanced survival and evasion tactics as well as advanced hand to hand, zero-gee survival and combat, medic skills, demolitions, boarding actions, combat drops, and a host of other necessary skills.

    Year Five will proceed for six months with the same training as Years One through Four. The last half of Year Five will consist of the remaining trainees being dropped off at the outer fringes of Federation Space, armed only with a set of civilian clothes and a civilian tricorder. From there, they must individually make their way back to Earth using any means possible without being discovered and without informing anyone of their final destination. Along the way, they are to make certain milestones (indicated via a 1 meter proximity of their tricorder to the Milestone Device, a code word (different for each milestone), and a biometric DNA scan), that will be recorded via subspace signals. The trainees are forbidden to use any affiliation with Starfleet to aid themselves in getting to their final destination. To facilitate this, all Starfleet personnel are required to detain any discovered trainees for 72 hours. Escape is a possibility when detained, though Starfleet personnel will treat the trainee as an escaped prisoner. When a trainee has made it to the Final Milestone, the hallowed grounds of the SMC Academy, his tricorder will give his position away to Security. He must make it to the central hall before Security catches him. The performance of this task will not adversely affect the trainees acceptance into the Corps unless they fail to make it in the six-month time frame, but those who make it to Earth in under four months without being caught once will be afforded the opportunity to join the SMC Special Operations Division, who will be given specialized training and physical modifications to further augment their skills, to include genetic augmentation to increase physical and mental capabilities (like Bashir, but better, though not to the augment state like Khan), modified Borg implants to allow for subspace comms, computer access, and smartgun style interface with their weapons, and other modifications as needed or developed.
    Post edited by themadprofessor#9835 on
    Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.

    Things I want in STO:

    1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
    2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
    3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
    4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
    5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
    6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
    7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
    8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    Translation: See this source for a guess as to what they were. Contradicted of course by their complete lack of special weapons (standard firearms remember) or tactics (Red Shirt Rush TM)

    Translation: All Starfleet security forces, including their weapons and tactics, are special, as in Military Special Response Teams/Forces, making Starfleet security a military police.

    Nope. Starfleet Security are armed and trained as all other officers. Phasers are a standardised design carried by everyone from the Captain to the CMO. I'm sure you remember because you brought it up in the first place that Picard (a command/science officer), Crusher (a medical officer), and Worf (a Security Officer) were the ones chosen for the Cardassian mission. Not Worf and two goldshirts.
    artan42 wrote: »
    Translation: I don't need to make actual points any more, my link spam should do adequately.

    Your link spam has already been debunked.

    Funny that as I've not posted any.
    artan42 wrote: »
    It's a fan blog written entirely of personal opinion.

    You've already agreed it makes a "salient" point.

    Ah, so my agreement with one point makes all other points automatically accepted without question. Learn how to logic yo.
    artan42 wrote: »
    You realise your wall of text has not altered a single part of my point? They are not military weapons just because they are exciting or because they detail or because they slide and click. Having them look like weapons was a style choice to set them apart from older models, not wish fulfilment for your military fetish.

    If you read the quote you posted you'll see the specification is to make them look and sound powerful and more like an actual weapon than previous phasers.

    Form follows function.

    And you said it didn't make it an "assault" phaser, yet it does by the intended design.

    Except 'assault' is a work with a meaning and the phaser was not shown to be any different from any other except the sound. It did not vapourise like the TOS ones, it did not preform multiple functions or strike multiple targets like the TNG ones, or cut through walls like the DS9 ones. It was simply shown to act as a normal TWoK era phaser.
    artan42 wrote: »
    I understand that's what they are referred to by the makers. However the TNG ones are called Dustbusters by the production staff and the FC ones Cobras. That's does not mean the former can clean the house and the latter have venomous fangs in terms of the show.

    Those are non-literal descriptions. The "Dustbuster" was a vacuum cleaner model, which the phaser may have resembled. See Phaser: Dustbuster:
    Called the ‘dustbuster’ phaser (after a 1980's hand-held vacuum-cleaner made by Black & Decker), it looked even stupider than it sounds. Probably not seen a great deal for this reason, or perhaps because the generally-peaceful view of Star Trek at the time precluded such blatant carrying of weapons, regardless of how non-weaponlike they actually looked. . .

    And the "Cobra" was a reference to the phaser looking like the head of a cobra snake with wide "neck".

    You realise the only difference exist inside your head right? You can't base your opinion off of the designers name of the gun then only apply that to the one that supports your argument but reject the others for no good reason except for the fact that they do not support your argument.
    By contrast, "Assault Phaser" is a functional description. Even if you went by the logic of what it resembles, like the other phasers, then you'd have to conclude that it resembles "assault". Even Shatner stated, "I wanted them to be .45's". He didn't say "look like .45s" but "be .45s". Therefore, the point still stands.

    Well the point dosn't as phasers do not use bullets of any calibre so Shatner failed to produce a .45 of any sort. But by this point you're just repeating what I've already addressed. I've already said that if your definition of 'assault' means 'makes clicky noises and slides in exciting ways' then yes, it's an assault phaser. If your definition of 'assault' is 'more tactical or powerful or specialised than a normal phaser' then no, it's not an assault phaser.
    artan42 wrote: »
    Being common and available in a kitchen locker proves they are the new common phaser and not some sort of SWAT gun you seem to think they are. They are standard issue sidearms.

    This goes along with the quote "they may well change the look of STAR TREK hardware to come", which is exactly what they did.

    Well, what do you know, a broken clock and all that...
    Furthermore, it shows that all Starfleet security forces, including their weapons and tactics, are special, as in Military Special Response Teams/Forces, making Starfleet security a military police.

    Or not. You really don't moderate your brain do you. You just let it leap around gaps in logic like a demented squirrel.

    'Assault' phasers are available in kitchen -> I think 'Assault' phasers are special -> All Starfleet officers are super ninja commandos!!
    Starfleet security forces are already part of a military. It's their job to be soldiers.

    This is demonstrably false and it's fair to say that no amount of proof will get you to drop your green berets in space fetish. You realise that's why your other thread has been ignored right?
    Chief Petty Officer Burke
    Burke was described in the script as "a badly wounded Starfleet Lieutenant, his uniform soaked with blood - he's BURKE, a seasoned combat veteran of about forty."

    Sounds like a soldier career.

    Sounds like a Security officer cought up in a war. Say, was there a war going on at the time?

    Well gee wizz, there was, the Dominion War. Now if only we knew who ended up fighting in that for the Federation as it has no military...
    Memory Alpha: Chief Petty Officer
    Chief petty officer (CPO) is an enlisted naval rank, a type of military rank used by the service organizations of different cultures.

    It's in the language. :)

    Dear gods. Petty Officer is a rank used in Starfleet you pillock. Oh please post a link about the American police being a military as they have captains and lieutenants.

    It's in the language. ;)​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • ryan218ryan218 Member Posts: 36,030 Arc User
    It was the Season 5 Klingon-Federation War, not the Dominion War. ;)
Sign In or Register to comment.