Just a small history note; I wouldn't combine fascism and communism under the same banner, @marcusdkane ; fascism is an explicitly authoritarian regime; while the largest communist state did descend into authoritarianism, fascism arose as an anti-communism, anti-liberal democracy movement. Fascism is certainly an anti-Marxist movement. I'd argue the Federation definitely has social democractic traits, but that's a bit different form of socialism then the application in states usually considered under the two political ideologies you described.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Just a small history note; I wouldn't combine fascism and communism under the same banner, @marcusdkane ; fascism is an explicitly authoritarian regime; while the largest communist state did descend into authoritarianism, fascism arose as an anti-communism, anti-liberal democracy movement. Fascism is certainly an anti-Marxist movement. I'd argue the Federation definitely has social democractic traits, but that's a bit different form of socialism then the application in states usually considered under the two political ideologies you described.
I didn't say 'facism'... I'm not talking about facism... I'm talking about Socialism, specifically National Socialism (not the former German National Socialist Party) I'm talking about a political ideology; One which could be implemented in several ways other than what a former German ruler did... Nothing to do with fascism whatsoever, so absolutely no need to raise mention of it, and then argue against fascism, because fascism was never the point of discussion... Equally, liberalism is not the point, and means a different thing today, than it did in the sixties... Todays liberalism, is not Kennedy's liberalism, but pretty much a polar opposite, and the same really in-name only
Starfleet is not there to kill and murder and destroy. It's there to explore first, and to protect second. When it has to kill, murder and destroy to protect the Federation, Starfleet officers don't generally feel like they are doing their real job - they have failed their real job.
Only because they play Engineers. Everyone knows you play Tac in space. Freakin noobs.
I have never seen socialism referred to as national socialism, I have only seen the term used in context of fascist political parties.
I'm referring to it (what the Federation has) as National Socialism, because of its intrinsically internalist nature... In Undiscovered Country, the Federation was accused of being 'a homo-sapiens only' club... From what canon has shown us, while there is representation from other Federation member-races, it's a largely true observation that humanity is one of the most visible driving forces in the Federation... IMHO, that (overall structure) makes the Federation's attitudes 'nationalistic' in tone, just encompassing a very large 'nation' (ie member worlds)
Starfleet is not there to kill and murder and destroy. It's there to explore first, and to protect second. When it has to kill, murder and destroy to protect the Federation, Starfleet officers don't generally feel like they are doing their real job - they have failed their real job.
Only because they play Engineers. Everyone knows you play Tac in space. Freakin noobs.
My main is an engineer, flying a science cruiser, which is set up as a polaron turret boat, with three tactical officers slotted... She may 'be an engineer', but she's certainly a very aggressive one...
Starfleet is not there to kill and murder and destroy. It's there to explore first, and to protect second. When it has to kill, murder and destroy to protect the Federation, Starfleet officers don't generally feel like they are doing their real job - they have failed their real job.
Only because they play Engineers. Everyone knows you play Tac in space. Freakin noobs.
Picard's build is terrible Even in the more aggressive universe, does he try to out-dps the adds? No, he just sits there and tanks to try and run out the timegate. And he's got the nearly exclusive Galaxy at the time, too. :P
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
flying a science cruiser, which is set up as a polaron turret boat, with three tactical officers slotted... She may 'be an engineer', but she's certainly a very aggressive one...
Picard's build is terrible Even in the more aggressive universe, does he try to out-dps the adds? No, he just sits there and tanks to try and run out the timegate. And he's got the nearly exclusive Galaxy at the time, too. :P
flying a science cruiser, which is set up as a polaron turret boat, with three tactical officers slotted... She may 'be an engineer', but she's certainly a very aggressive one...
Picard's build is terrible Even in the more aggressive universe, does he try to out-dps the adds? No, he just sits there and tanks to try and run out the timegate. And he's got the nearly exclusive Galaxy at the time, too. :P
Total waste of a promo ship.
Discharge Picard and Riker, and put Jellico permanently in charge with Shelby as his XO...
The full formal name of the n.a.z.i. party is National Socialist German Workers Party.
Well in the Englische Übersetzung, ja, I'm aware, but, again, it's in relation to that I"ve only ever seen a concept referred to as National Socialism, which is definitely not ideologically socialist or communist. That is why I was bringing it up as a point of reference with lumping together two schools of political philosophy.
Let's not even get into how we only ever seem to see one weapon mount fire at a time! BFAW Jean-Luc, BFAW! It's like you're completely ignoring the meta!
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
The full formal name of the n.a.z.i. party is National Socialist German Workers Party.
Well in the Englische Übersetzung, ja, I'm aware, but, again, it's in relation to that I"ve only ever seen a concept referred to as National Socialism, which is definitely not ideologically socialist or communist. That is why I was bringing it up as a point of reference with lumping together two schools of political philosophy.
Let's not even get into how we only ever seem to see one weapon mount fire at a time! BFAW Jean-Luc, BFAW! It's like you're completely ignoring the meta!
As I said, the Federation has both socialist, and nationalist traits in it's political outlook... Nothing whatsoever, however, to do with nartseeism... Vegetarians don't eat meat, but that doesn't make them Vegans... Similar(ish) and some similar(ish) principles, but most definitely Not The Same things
Yay, we're getting there again.
Stay tuned, folks, Olivia's next post in this thread will have national-socialist imagery so she can prove her insane troll logic point like in previous threads.
Or don't stay tuned and let her pointless and silly rhetoric die away until she decides to troll another site to get more attention to exist.
On a technically political level, the Federation is an idealized example of the tenets of national socialism (and communism) displayed in their most positive and beneficial extents... That doesn't mean, however, that the Feds are Na5is... The Feds are no more Na5is, than vegetarians are Vegans...
Socialists and Communists are on the left of the political spectrum. The group you are referring to are on the right, as an extreme expression of nationalism and fascism. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum. So in your analysis, the Vegans are Vegans, the Federation are looking at the menu of their local steakhouse asking what the porterhouse costs.
Yay, we're getting there again.
Stay tuned, folks, Olivia's next post in this thread will have national-socialist imagery so she can prove her insane troll logic point like in previous threads.
Or don't stay tuned and let her pointless and silly rhetoric die away until she decides to troll another site to get more attention to exist.
On a technically political level, the Federation is an idealized example of the tenets of national socialism (and communism) displayed in their most positive and beneficial extents... That doesn't mean, however, that the Feds are Na5is... The Feds are no more Na5is, than vegetarians are Vegans...
Socialists and Communists are on the left of the political spectrum. The group you are referring to are on the right, as an extreme expression of nationalism and fascism. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum. So in your analysis, the Vegans are Vegans, the Federation are looking at the menu of their local steakhouse asking what the porterhouse costs.
And this is the point I'm trying to make...
Socialism does not = nartseeism
Nationalism does not = nartseeism
Communism does not = fascism
The Federation's political climate, has many socialist and communist aspects... It also has nationalistic aspects... That Does Not automatically mean fascism or nartseeism are coming into play, or even need to be raised when discussing Federation politics...
Oranges are round(ish)
Apples are round(ish)
Balls are round
Apples are not oranges or balls, yet they can all be rolled along the floor...
There's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the ideals of socialism or communism, or any political ideology, the problem occurs when implemented, due to Human flaws and weaknesses... In Communist Russia, 'everyone is equal'(but some are more equal than others) In the Federation, everyone is equal. Period.
Wow. That makes Olivia Claire seem like she doesn't even like Star Trek.
So what's the point OC? Why bother with something that is deception and propoganda? Maybe get into Halo or Bioshock or the Batman Arkham series of games? And leave the deceptive Star Trek IP and the Cryptic Studios you kind of hate far far behind?
The end-game for OC's posts and agenda seems to have gone missing.
Alright. I think this has gone for long enough and derailed badly enough.
/Closed
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Comments
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Picard's build is terrible Even in the more aggressive universe, does he try to out-dps the adds? No, he just sits there and tanks to try and run out the timegate. And he's got the nearly exclusive Galaxy at the time, too. :P
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Obviously not you, Boss
Well in the Englische Übersetzung, ja, I'm aware, but, again, it's in relation to that I"ve only ever seen a concept referred to as National Socialism, which is definitely not ideologically socialist or communist. That is why I was bringing it up as a point of reference with lumping together two schools of political philosophy.
Let's not even get into how we only ever seem to see one weapon mount fire at a time! BFAW Jean-Luc, BFAW! It's like you're completely ignoring the meta!
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Socialists and Communists are on the left of the political spectrum. The group you are referring to are on the right, as an extreme expression of nationalism and fascism. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum. So in your analysis, the Vegans are Vegans, the Federation are looking at the menu of their local steakhouse asking what the porterhouse costs.
Socialism does not = nartseeism
Nationalism does not = nartseeism
Communism does not = fascism
The Federation's political climate, has many socialist and communist aspects... It also has nationalistic aspects... That Does Not automatically mean fascism or nartseeism are coming into play, or even need to be raised when discussing Federation politics...
Oranges are round(ish)
Apples are round(ish)
Balls are round
Apples are not oranges or balls, yet they can all be rolled along the floor...
There's nothing inherently 'wrong' with the ideals of socialism or communism, or any political ideology, the problem occurs when implemented, due to Human flaws and weaknesses... In Communist Russia, 'everyone is equal'(but some are more equal than others) In the Federation, everyone is equal. Period.
Wow. That makes Olivia Claire seem like she doesn't even like Star Trek.
So what's the point OC? Why bother with something that is deception and propoganda? Maybe get into Halo or Bioshock or the Batman Arkham series of games? And leave the deceptive Star Trek IP and the Cryptic Studios you kind of hate far far behind?
The end-game for OC's posts and agenda seems to have gone missing.
/Closed
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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