Yeah, you want a REAL challenge? Translate Skrull into English.
No, I'm not going to wait. Sure it's a substitution cipher but it's not a SIMPLE one....
If you want a little help..... http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/gallery/30658027/translators
Hey... I once translated the Matoran written language before learning there was a key. And that was also a sub cipher.
And then there's the Dinosaur Language from Star Fox Adventures, which is also a cipher language.
It's funny you all think I'm talking about Echoes of Light. I never even mentioned what mission was vexing me. You all assume so much. You assume I want to change your game and you assume what mission I'm talking about.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
It's funny you all think I'm talking about Echoes of Light. I never even mentioned what mission was vexing me. You all assume so much. You assume I want to change your game and you assume what mission I'm talking about.
Based on the fact you haven't told us what you're talking about, and the fact that the most recent FE has a puzzle in it...
I don't see what's so funny about it. Seems like a logical deduction based on the available information...
Now if you're talking about the one in the Breen arc... I always have to look up that one to get the right orientation.
Yeah, you want a REAL challenge? Translate Skrull into English.
No, I'm not going to wait. Sure it's a substitution cipher but it's not a SIMPLE one....
If you want a little help..... http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/gallery/30658027/translators
Hey... I once translated the Matoran written language before learning there was a key. And that was also a sub cipher.
And then there's the Dinosaur Language from Star Fox Adventures, which is also a cipher language.
Yeah but that's a SIMPLE one.
Maltoran has a 1-1 correlation between symbols and letters. Skrull does not. Some symbols code for multiple letters, and some even get used for both letters AND punctuation! see:
It's funny you all think I'm talking about Echoes of Light. I never even mentioned what mission was vexing me. You all assume so much. You assume I want to change your game and you assume what mission I'm talking about.
With some of the complaints about certain puzzles, even from the "puzzle support group", I wonder how many people do not read the instructions. Sure, some are still open to interpretation, also depending on language skills, but you're usually down to three options at most. Not that much of a selection to brute force through.
I agree with the OP. Puzzles, no matter how easy or quick to solve, should be left out of MMO's in general. IMO, it is one of the ways that the story writers use to prolong the mission, to give the illusion that the mission is taking a fair amount of time to complete.
Though once you got the puzzle solved, you should be able to redo it quickly, and it won't take as much time as a space fight against beefy opponents or walking long distances from A to B to gather thing X by pressing F (Hello Coliseum). Those are way more padding.
And why Puzzles should be left out altogether isn't really explained to me here. Because you don't like them?
Numbers and puzzles happen to fall into the affected areas.
That's sad to hear, and you do have my sympathy about that. However, while there are some points, actually quite a few, where things like this can be considered, it should not always be the case. There should still be TV Shows with complicated words, even though some people may have troubles understanding them. I do understand that it can be galling, but sometimes you just have to accept that things are not always tailored to that.
All I can say is they best not play colliseum...the satellite puzzle sequence there would melt their minds
Actually that is one of the most galling examples of a puzzle in my opinion. Brute force calculation, 1 and 2 are comparatively easy, 3 just needs a calculator (it doesn't, but who does really want to do that stuff in the head? I am all for mental activity, but that I don't like). You can however effectively skip it, since it is 4 numbers for each letter which can be brute forced, so even without any calculation at all, you will be over with it in a matter of two minutes.
Everybody is sitting here accussing me of being entitled. Never once did I say your game or your experience should be changed. I only suggest that people like me should have the OPTION to skip puzzles then EVERYBODY can play how they want. But since you all just assume I want to take something away from you, that's your immediate snap judgement, who is actually selfish and entitled?
Oh noes! Somebody wants fun for everybody, how dare anyone suggest something that takes NOTHING away from me!
(a) Skipping parts of a mission will possibly be exploitable.
(b) Having a game with a task that gives out rewards and the option to "skip task, get rewards" would make you question why you should do anything at all. After all, just press "I win" and that's it. Motivation to play the game will be gone for many, not a good business model.
And how about somebody not liking ground combat? Or space combat? Should that be skippable, too?
Every mission in this game is skippable, excluding the handful of short visit-this-location tasks required to start the next story chain.
Actually, as far as I know, you have to have completed a mission before you can skip it on other toons, so unless you did it once, you're trapped. It's only hearsay though.
There is one mission (one of the Breen ones where you interrogate the one in a cell) that can really suck, but it has a walk through on the STO Wiki. I would have HATED being the first one on that mission.
That one puzzle needs to be revamped.
Actually, you get quite good directions about what to do. I found that one easy. I would consider the "medicine puzzles" from the same mission more complicated (but still doable, if you read the mission text well enough)
Still, I dislike most of the puzzles, because most of them don't really please either crowd. It's annoying some, too easy for others. Though I had to grin at the Iconian cryptology puzzles (easily solveable since it gives you a closing in warning): One is actually very simple math a 9th grader should be able to do - as soon as it is understood what the question is - while the other one is a problem most math majors with a degree won't even understand, let alone solve.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Maltoran has a 1-1 correlation between symbols and letters. Skrull does not. Some symbols code for multiple letters, and some even get used for both letters AND punctuation! see:
True. Although Dinosaur Language was more difficult. Especially with the fact that proper names were spelled normally while the rest of the language was ciphered. Although like any cipher language, once you figure out some of the letters... process of elimation my decode the rest into something that is readable.
For example:
0ei'ho cisb0 0ei vocc adke u xek jfhadw Fox.
I'd like for you to rephrase the quip about ToR being nothing but pew-pew-pew. I play ToR, Warframe, DCUO, STO, and many others including WoW.
ToR has some puzzles on how to complete certain missions that require timing AND thinking all while getting attacked by mobs AND a boss.
Warframe has not only door locks, but there are parts you need to complete while remaining undetected while shooting mobs, avoiding lasers and other hazards while hacking.
STO's puzzles are more math/science related while NOT being shot at.
They ALL have some puzzle or another that requires some thinking on a basic level beyond pew-pew-pew. The OP is just throwing something out there to complain about because he can't just shoot everything in sight and move on.
If the OP wants to pew-pew-pew without puzzles, maybe he should stick with PvP. PvP is nothing but broken mess of pew-pew-pew.
hell swtor even has entire missions where there is ZERO combat... the most recent I can think of is recalibrating HK-52 after he gets rebuilt... sure they're short and not common but when was the last time STO did ZERO combat missions? Above Bajor with the Spoonheads?
Everybody is sitting here accussing me of being entitled. Never once did I say your game or your experience should be changed. I only suggest that people like me should have the OPTION to skip puzzles then EVERYBODY can play how they want. But since you all just assume I want to take something away from you, that's your immediate snap judgement, who is actually selfish and entitled?
Oh noes! Somebody wants fun for everybody, how dare anyone suggest something that takes NOTHING away from me!
Then they would need to allow everyone to skip over the boring combat parts, too. It's all pretty much the same, after all.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Maltoran has a 1-1 correlation between symbols and letters. Skrull does not. Some symbols code for multiple letters, and some even get used for both letters AND punctuation! see:
True. Although Dinosaur Language was more difficult. Especially with the fact that proper names were spelled normally while the rest of the language was ciphered. Although like any cipher language, once you figure out some of the letters... process of elimation my decode the rest into something that is readable.
For example:
0ei'ho cisb0 0ei vocc adke u xek jfhadw Fox.
That one reminds me of Al Bhed from Final Fantasy. When you play through the game, if you have it memorized, you can read all the Al Bhed dialogue without collecting the "primers" to make the game translate it for you. Al Bhed is made easier to remember by the fact the letters aren't jumbled at random and are rearranged in groups.
A shame people need to be rude to someone over something so trivial. It'd be much much easier and more civil to agree or disagree without resorting to insults. The OP does not like puzzles and voiced that, no doubt in the worst place possible. But the continual insults and goading show the level of immaturity on these forums.
The only "puzzle" in STO that gives me problems is that one in the Deferi arc where you have to position your BOs in the four corner panels, then activate consoles in the right sequence while standing in the center. Never figured out the trick to clicking the identical interact buttons in the right order to arrange "arrows" pointing in different compass directions. Always end up just clicking the whole list from top to bottom, then facing another direction and do it again, rinse and repeat until it finally works.
But no, the Echoes of Light puzzle doesn't vex me. If you face the stairs, the correct pattern is a 'Z,' starting at the lower left point.
Well, in Z and making sure you rotate the lower or upper first depending on where the recording one did it. I think it was up, down, down up, down up, and up down, but I could be mistaken.
Devs should have trolled us and done UUDDLRLR and then have to press an A and B panel.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Well, in Z and making sure you rotate the lower or upper first depending on where the recording one did it. I think it was up, down, down up, down up, and up down, but I could be mistaken.
Devs should have trolled us and done UUDDLRLR and then have to press an A and B panel.
Actually... the pattern of pillars is randomized. Also... I never had a problem with going middle bottom on all four.
Ehh... I don't mind a few puzzles and I'm indifferent to most of them. The only puzzle I've ever truly hated was the one underground in the Kobali temple where you have to chase Harry Kim's Kobali double Keten thru that maze and then run across those disappearing floors. "Dust to Dust," I think it was called. It was worth it to get the awesome Kobali eng/command boff tho.
A shame people need to be rude to someone over something so trivial. It'd be much much easier and more civil to agree or disagree without resorting to insults. The OP does not like puzzles and voiced that, no doubt in the worst place possible. But the continual insults and goading show the level of immaturity on these forums.
Easier...yes...more fun...no. I'm sorry...but you must be new to the forums. Insults are our meat and your tears our drink. Enjoy your stay here if you ain't a wuss.
While nothing you said here is untrue at all.. the fact is, this forum tends to respond to requests in the style in which they are made.
I have yet to see a new player post a question and be met with hostility. The threads that get the angry replies are ones with unhappy players making demands or using the forum to vent their personal frustration in a childish or demanding fashion.
For example, a player attempts a mission or some other content, finds it too difficult and comes to the forum for help. If they start a 'what am I doing wrong?' thread, they will likely get a ton of help. If they post a 'fix your stupid mission' thread, they're going to get blasted. Starting a thread called 'Mother... @#$% Puzzles..' and then crying about the content will get you this type of response 10 times out of 10.
Had the OP started the thread with the intent of starting a civil discourse, he/she would have received one. On this forum you get what you give.
The threads that get the angry replies are ones with unhappy players making demands or using the forum to vent their personal frustration in a childish or demanding fashion.
Quoted for truth. Getting upset is all okay - but taking it on the forums rarely brings anything positive, let alone a civil discussion. Thank you everyone who remained civil and constructive.
/Closed
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Comments
Hey... I once translated the Matoran written language before learning there was a key. And that was also a sub cipher.
And then there's the Dinosaur Language from Star Fox Adventures, which is also a cipher language.
Based on the fact you haven't told us what you're talking about, and the fact that the most recent FE has a puzzle in it...
I don't see what's so funny about it. Seems like a logical deduction based on the available information...
Now if you're talking about the one in the Breen arc... I always have to look up that one to get the right orientation.
Maltoran has a 1-1 correlation between symbols and letters. Skrull does not. Some symbols code for multiple letters, and some even get used for both letters AND punctuation! see:
My character Tsin'xing
As has been said, there are multiple patterns. 24 actually.
Though once you got the puzzle solved, you should be able to redo it quickly, and it won't take as much time as a space fight against beefy opponents or walking long distances from A to B to gather thing X by pressing F (Hello Coliseum). Those are way more padding.
And why Puzzles should be left out altogether isn't really explained to me here. Because you don't like them?
That's sad to hear, and you do have my sympathy about that. However, while there are some points, actually quite a few, where things like this can be considered, it should not always be the case. There should still be TV Shows with complicated words, even though some people may have troubles understanding them. I do understand that it can be galling, but sometimes you just have to accept that things are not always tailored to that.
Actually that is one of the most galling examples of a puzzle in my opinion. Brute force calculation, 1 and 2 are comparatively easy, 3 just needs a calculator (it doesn't, but who does really want to do that stuff in the head? I am all for mental activity, but that I don't like). You can however effectively skip it, since it is 4 numbers for each letter which can be brute forced, so even without any calculation at all, you will be over with it in a matter of two minutes.
(a) Skipping parts of a mission will possibly be exploitable.
(b) Having a game with a task that gives out rewards and the option to "skip task, get rewards" would make you question why you should do anything at all. After all, just press "I win" and that's it. Motivation to play the game will be gone for many, not a good business model.
And how about somebody not liking ground combat? Or space combat? Should that be skippable, too?
Actually, as far as I know, you have to have completed a mission before you can skip it on other toons, so unless you did it once, you're trapped. It's only hearsay though.
Actually, you get quite good directions about what to do. I found that one easy. I would consider the "medicine puzzles" from the same mission more complicated (but still doable, if you read the mission text well enough)
Still, I dislike most of the puzzles, because most of them don't really please either crowd. It's annoying some, too easy for others. Though I had to grin at the Iconian cryptology puzzles (easily solveable since it gives you a closing in warning): One is actually very simple math a 9th grader should be able to do - as soon as it is understood what the question is - while the other one is a problem most math majors with a degree won't even understand, let alone solve.
True. Although Dinosaur Language was more difficult. Especially with the fact that proper names were spelled normally while the rest of the language was ciphered. Although like any cipher language, once you figure out some of the letters... process of elimation my decode the rest into something that is readable.
For example:
0ei'ho cisb0 0ei vocc adke u xek jfhadw Fox.
hell swtor even has entire missions where there is ZERO combat... the most recent I can think of is recalibrating HK-52 after he gets rebuilt... sure they're short and not common but when was the last time STO did ZERO combat missions? Above Bajor with the Spoonheads?
Then they would need to allow everyone to skip over the boring combat parts, too. It's all pretty much the same, after all.
My character Tsin'xing
A pretty underrated game I think, but I loved the detail.
Well, in Z and making sure you rotate the lower or upper first depending on where the recording one did it. I think it was up, down, down up, down up, and up down, but I could be mistaken.
Devs should have trolled us and done UUDDLRLR and then have to press an A and B panel.
Actually... the pattern of pillars is randomized. Also... I never had a problem with going middle bottom on all four.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
While nothing you said here is untrue at all.. the fact is, this forum tends to respond to requests in the style in which they are made.
I have yet to see a new player post a question and be met with hostility. The threads that get the angry replies are ones with unhappy players making demands or using the forum to vent their personal frustration in a childish or demanding fashion.
For example, a player attempts a mission or some other content, finds it too difficult and comes to the forum for help. If they start a 'what am I doing wrong?' thread, they will likely get a ton of help. If they post a 'fix your stupid mission' thread, they're going to get blasted. Starting a thread called 'Mother... @#$% Puzzles..' and then crying about the content will get you this type of response 10 times out of 10.
Had the OP started the thread with the intent of starting a civil discourse, he/she would have received one. On this forum you get what you give.
Quoted for truth. Getting upset is all okay - but taking it on the forums rarely brings anything positive, let alone a civil discussion. Thank you everyone who remained civil and constructive.
/Closed
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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