vengeance vs arbiter?

skullblits · October 2016

so I have the vengeance but was wonder what is better?

as a console player we haven't got the arbiter yet so was wondering what do you think is better?

should I just stick with my vengeance?

tom61sto · October 2016

The ship itself, I'd rate the Vengeance better personally. The Vengie's console is very powerful, too. Main downside to the Vengie is that it turns slower than the Arbiter.

The Arbiter's big thing is that it comes with an over-powered Trait - "Emergency Weapon Cycle", where your weapons fire faster and drain less energy anytime you use Emergency Power to Weapons, which, on an energy boat, should be as often as possible. If you plunked down cash for the Vengie, it'd probably be worthwhile to grab the Arbiter just for the Trait.

warmaker001b · October 2016

Between Vengeance and Arbiter, the Vengeance I will agree with tom61sto is better. She's more flexible in her BOFF layout (Cmdr ENG is Hybrid). The turn rate of the Arbiter isn't as big an advantage unless you're aiming for a forward heavy / narrow arc build (DHC, torp, DBB type of stuff).

The Arbiter however has a great trait if you use EPTW. Whether that is worth you buying a ship entirely for a trait is up to you.

salazarraze · October 2016

It shouldn't be an either or question. Get both. Use the Arbiter trait on the vengeance after the arbiter comes out on console.

orondis · October 2016

Personally I'd say the Arbiter.

I've found my arbiter usually beats every intel dread to the next target. Certainly gets it's 5x DBB aimed before they do.

baudl · October 2016

vengeance on PC server is currently at around 240 millions. Do you guys think it will get signifcantly cheaper with the release of the next lock box?
I'd like to buy one, but I am hesitant since I really don't want to end up buying it and watching the prices drop further.

ltminns · October 2016

It is a Lobi Store Ship so it will probably not get much cheaper. Maybe to 220 or so.

skullblits · October 2016

I didn't account that if I get the arbiter I'll have it available to any new feds I make.

unlike the vengeance. which if you ask me is very annoying.

scarling · October 2016

Vengeance. Since traits aren't bound to the ship.

kodachikuno · October 2016

Vengeance is the first dreadnaught in sto that feels like a dreadnaught. That thing just obliterated everything. Arbiter is nice but not that

nikephorus · October 2016

Vengeance is better. It has a higher hull and shield modifier access to both Intel and temporal abilities and a hangar.

seaofsorrows · October 2016

This is a really close call, you're basically comparing the two absolute best Federation ships.

The Vengeance does feel like a true Dreadnought and handles surprisingly well for such a large ship. I would actually give the advantage on both Console and Trait to the Arbiter. The Vengeance Console is nice, but it's best feature is it's passive. The damage from the emitters is negligible and is even less if you're not running a Phaser Build. The Arbiter console is an instant 'get out of jail free' card that basically turns a nimble, high DPS destroyer into a full on tank. The Vengeance Trait is also not that great, despite how powerful it sounds. It's a Cat 1 damage bonus that's basically equal to a Mark XII tactical console (Non spire) that's only sometimes active. The Arbiter however has one of the two best traits in the game (All Hands On Deck.)

The Vengeance does have a slightly more flexible BoFF layout and it also has a hangar bay loaded with one of the few hangar pets that doesn't completely suck. Aesthetically, it's a matter of opinion, but I give that to the Vengeance as well, I just love how imposing and menacing that ship looks. The Vengeance is also a Fleet Level T6, where the Arbiter is T6 base.

If I had both available to me, and could only get one, I would likely pick the Arbiter just because it's an account wide unlock with a 'must have' trait. For console players though, since you can't get the Arbiter, the Vengeance is the perfect alternative. If you have a chance to get the Vengeance, you should take it.. I got it the day it came out and my Main doesn't fly anything else. I still use the Arbiter as well on my Alt, but I do tend to enjoy the Vengeance more. It's probably my favorite ship in STO.

nikephorus · October 2016

seaofsorrows wrote: »

This is a really close call, you're basically comparing the two absolute best Federation ships.

The Vengeance does feel like a true Dreadnought and handles surprisingly well for such a large ship. I would actually give the advantage on both Console and Trait to the Arbiter. The Vengeance Console is nice, but it's best feature is it's passive. The damage from the emitters is negligible and is even less if you're not running a Phaser Build. The Arbiter console is an instant 'get out of jail free' card that basically turns a nimble, high DPS destroyer into a full on tank. The Vengeance Trait is also not that great, despite how powerful it sounds. It's a Cat 1 damage bonus that's basically equal to a Mark XII tactical console (Non spire) that's only sometimes active. The Arbiter however has one of the two best traits in the game (All Hands On Deck.)

The Vengeance does have a slightly more flexible BoFF layout and it also has a hangar bay loaded with one of the few hangar pets that doesn't completely suck. Aesthetically, it's a matter of opinion, but I give that to the Vengeance as well, I just love how imposing and menacing that ship looks. The Vengeance is also a Fleet Level T6, where the Arbiter is T6 base.

If I had both available to me, and could only get one, I would likely pick the Arbiter just because it's an account wide unlock with a 'must have' trait. For console players though, since you can't get the Arbiter, the Vengeance is the perfect alternative. If you have a chance to get the Vengeance, you should take it.. I got it the day it came out and my Main doesn't fly anything else. I still use the Arbiter as well on my Alt, but I do tend to enjoy the Vengeance more. It's probably my favorite ship in STO.

Concerning the Arbiter I agree with you on one thing... the Arbiter trait is a must have. Don't get me wrong Arbiter is an excellent ship. Vengeance just outperforms it at almost everything. Only reason I would choose the Arbiter over the Vengeance if I had access to both is to run a dual beam bank or cannon build. The superior maneuverability of the arbiter makes it easier to handle when using weapons with a narrow firing arc. Both great ships though and you can't really go wrong with either one.

Special note on the vengeance console. If you use [beam] spire tactical consoles it buffs the damage of the broadside emitters. So you get the passive bonus and a clicky for some extra damage without having to switch to phasers.

seaofsorrows · October 2016

nikephorus wrote: »

Special note on the vengeance console. If you use [beam] spire tactical consoles it buffs the damage of the broadside emitters. So you get the passive bonus and a clicky for some extra damage without having to switch to phasers.

Interesting, I was not aware of that. I'm actually surprised that works, the console Phasers must be categorized as Beam Arrays.

Good to know, thanks.

sunfrancks · October 2016

seaofsorrows wrote: »

This is a really close call, you're basically comparing the two absolute best Federation ships.

The Vengeance does feel like a true Dreadnought and handles surprisingly well for such a large ship. I would actually give the advantage on both Console and Trait to the Arbiter. The Vengeance Console is nice, but it's best feature is it's passive. The damage from the emitters is negligible and is even less if you're not running a Phaser Build. The Arbiter console is an instant 'get out of jail free' card that basically turns a nimble, high DPS destroyer into a full on tank. The Vengeance Trait is also not that great, despite how powerful it sounds. It's a Cat 1 damage bonus that's basically equal to a Mark XII tactical console (Non spire) that's only sometimes active. The Arbiter however has one of the two best traits in the game (All Hands On Deck.)

The Vengeance does have a slightly more flexible BoFF layout and it also has a hangar bay loaded with one of the few hangar pets that doesn't completely suck. Aesthetically, it's a matter of opinion, but I give that to the Vengeance as well, I just love how imposing and menacing that ship looks. The Vengeance is also a Fleet Level T6, where the Arbiter is T6 base.

If I had both available to me, and could only get one, I would likely pick the Arbiter just because it's an account wide unlock with a 'must have' trait. For console players though, since you can't get the Arbiter, the Vengeance is the perfect alternative. If you have a chance to get the Vengeance, you should take it.. I got it the day it came out and my Main doesn't fly anything else. I still use the Arbiter as well on my Alt, but I do tend to enjoy the Vengeance more. It's probably my favorite ship in STO.

It should be noted that the Arbiter comes with the "Emergency Weapon Cycle" trait. The "All Hands On Deck" trait actually comes with the Presidio Tactical Command Battlecruiser...

The Arbiter trait is still very good, though!

seaofsorrows · October 2016

sunfrancks wrote: »

It should be noted that the Arbiter comes with the "Emergency Weapon Cycle" trait. The "All Hands On Deck" trait actually comes with the Presidio Tactical Command Battlecruiser...

The Arbiter trait is still very good, though!

Sorry, I just realized how ambiguous what I typed actually was. It should have been phrased "The Arbiter however has one of the two best traits in the game, Emergency Weapons Cycle (All Hands On Deck being the other.)"

I can see how what I wrote would be confusing, thanks.

sunfrancks · October 2016

seaofsorrows wrote: »

sunfrancks wrote: »

It should be noted that the Arbiter comes with the "Emergency Weapon Cycle" trait. The "All Hands On Deck" trait actually comes with the Presidio Tactical Command Battlecruiser...

The Arbiter trait is still very good, though!

Sorry, I just realized how ambiguous what I typed actually was. It should have been phrased "The Arbiter however has one of the two best traits in the game, Emergency Weapons Cycle (All Hands On Deck being the other.)"

I can see how what I wrote would be confusing, thanks.

Yup, all is good.

Unknown · October 2016

This content has been removed.

artan42 · October 2016

Is it better to buy the Vengeance with Lobi or off the exchange? I think I've scraped together enough Lobi to buy one that way but have a little way to go in terms of EC.

Unknown · October 2016

This content has been removed.

seaofsorrows · October 2016

artan42 wrote: »

Is it better to buy the Vengeance with Lobi or off the exchange? I think I've scraped together enough Lobi to buy one that way but have a little way to go in terms of EC.

This depends entirely on your resources at the moment.

If you're starting from zero on both, then EC is far cheaper. You will spend a lot less buying and selling keys then you will opening boxes for 4 lobi at a time until you hit 900.

If you already have the lobi, then obviously that's the most efficient option, but if you're really close on EC, then I would personally go that route. Like @mattjohnsonva I like to use my Lobi on things that can't be bought with EC. I'm a big fan of Bio-Neural Infusion Circuits and of course Bounty Hunters friend and I usually use my Lobi for things like that.

It really depends on how far off you are from the EC you need to buy the ship. I think it's currently going for around 220M, so if you're only 20-50M off, I would sell some keys and buy with EC. Otherwise, if you have the Lobi and you want the ship, use the Lobi.

artan42 · October 2016

Thanks. I'll take stock of exactly how much of each I've got an which is closer.

There's something very amusing to me about flying a Dreadnought painted with a type 0 hull

.

kodachikuno · October 2016

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

OSS3 + SS3 + EmtW3 AND the EWC trait from the Arbiter is just a flying kick in the bollocks to any ship that argues with it.

I have no idea what these things are off hand.... but I do vaporize almost anything including Borg Cubes faster with a Veng than ANY other vessel I own.

Its especially fun with full KT weapons, broadside and phaser point defense console active all at once.... its like a minigun spamming everything around you

seaofsorrows · October 2016

kodachikuno wrote: »

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

OSS3 + SS3 + EmtW3 AND the EWC trait from the Arbiter is just a flying kick in the bollocks to any ship that argues with it.

I have no idea what these things are off hand.... but I do vaporize almost anything including Borg Cubes faster with a Veng than ANY other vessel I own.
Its especially fun with full KT weapons, broadside and phaser point defense console active all at once.... its like a minigun spamming everything around you

Override Subsystem Safeties 3 + Surgical Strikes 3 + Emergency Power to Weapons with the Emergency Weapons Cycle trait.

Basically, uncap your weapon power Max to 125, buff your critical chance into the stratosphere, pump power into your weapons, speed up your firing rate and unload.

It's an effective single target combo, pretty much pick a target and destroy it.

sunfrancks · October 2016

seaofsorrows wrote: »

kodachikuno wrote: »

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

OSS3 + SS3 + EmtW3 AND the EWC trait from the Arbiter is just a flying kick in the bollocks to any ship that argues with it.

I have no idea what these things are off hand.... but I do vaporize almost anything including Borg Cubes faster with a Veng than ANY other vessel I own.
Its especially fun with full KT weapons, broadside and phaser point defense console active all at once.... its like a minigun spamming everything around you

Override Subsystem Safeties 3 + Surgical Strikes 3 + Emergency Power to Weapons with the Emergency Weapons Cycle trait.

Basically, uncap your weapon power Max to 125, buff your critical chance into the stratosphere, pump power into your weapons, speed up your firing rate and unload.

It's an effective single target combo, pretty much pick a target and destroy it.

Or OSS3 + EPW + FAW3 + Science Ultimate + Arbiter trait = everything around you within range dies..

kodachikuno · October 2016

seaofsorrows wrote: »

kodachikuno wrote: »

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

OSS3 + SS3 + EmtW3 AND the EWC trait from the Arbiter is just a flying kick in the bollocks to any ship that argues with it.

I have no idea what these things are off hand.... but I do vaporize almost anything including Borg Cubes faster with a Veng than ANY other vessel I own.
Its especially fun with full KT weapons, broadside and phaser point defense console active all at once.... its like a minigun spamming everything around you

Override Subsystem Safeties 3 + Surgical Strikes 3 + Emergency Power to Weapons with the Emergency Weapons Cycle trait.

Basically, uncap your weapon power Max to 125, buff your critical chance into the stratosphere, pump power into your weapons, speed up your firing rate and unload.

It's an effective single target combo, pretty much pick a target and destroy it.

ah... cool... buncha stuff I never use

vengeance vs arbiter?

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