STO has a phenomenally good in-game economy. Aping the mistakes of bad games would make it worse than it is now, not make it better.
Over the course of the last four years on STO, lockbox keys have gone from about 1.3m to about 5.5m
At the same time, the prices of ships, when measured in keys, has gone down very considerably.
This time four years ago, a lockbox ship cost about 80m ec. The average price for them isnt much different today, maybe 130m.
But 4 years ago, a ship cost 61 keys. Now it costs 23 keys.
STO's economy is complex because there are lots of paths to the same thing.
Agreed. That's the crazy thing about the tone of this thread: the T6 light cruiser not withstanding ships and gear are comparatively much easier to get.
I remember when the only queue were for the Borg, they combined ground and space, it took hours to gather a solid team and hours to finish, and then get to the end but not get the borg item which today is just a rep project.
Lobi ships have never been cheaper to buy with ec. Buying my first lockbox ship, the Ferengi Marauder, left me nearly without resources for several months afterwards. No regrets it is still one my favorite ships. My next hard to get ship was the Bulwark. I rarely fly it, a shame since there are folks who would like to have it. Again, the mentality of many on this thread is that no one should have the pleasure of owning this irreplaceable ship.
STO's economy is amazingly generous.
Also agreed regarding tipping, actually the fact tips are even required is the problem. The system doesn't necessarily improve the experience because the experience is influenced by everything from the kitchen to the floor. The waiter is at the mercy of those factors, and the tips they do collect go into a common tip jar to be shared out. It's a hard way to make a living except in high end bars and restaurants. Businesses could simply pay their people well to begin with. I waited tables and bars for to get through college - it had its high points and I made good friends, but for the most part it was a soul crushing job.
Anyway, off to go alternate between my T6 heavy and light connies. Fun ships, especially the light cruiser.
How is that worse than what we have? I'm quite content raising the market prices on console each day but seems like either a selling or relisting fee would stop some of the easy abuse that goes on.
Yeah the current system is actually rather unrealistic. Sure people flip stuff IRL, but that takes more effort than simply clicking a few buttons. And it often has side costs like brokerage fees or shipping fees.
It should be noted that the current STO environment is doing something interesting.
Basically confining inflation to lockbox and promo ships, at least in my experience. The introduction of the infinity boxes are responsible for this combined with the low drop rate of the best ships from those boxes. This results in a large supply of just about everything except those high end ships. So prices dropped on those, and due to the money supply in the game- went through the roof for those ships.
How is that worse than what we have? I'm quite content raising the market prices on console each day but seems like either a selling or relisting fee would stop some of the easy abuse that goes on.
Like the EC Cap on the Exchange pricing and individual characters, this only slows inflation- not stops it.
Even EVE Online, which not only has selling fee but which actively destroys player wealth (you lost the ship and everything on it if it is ever destroyed - one example: http://gameological.com/2013/07/eve-online-big-ship-oops/) still has inflation.
That said, slower inflation is better than rapid inflation. And open exchange markets are better than grey markets. Thus I'd like to see listing fees on the exchange and 'gift' fees on player to player trades. And the amount of these fees should be progressive (i.e. a larger % of the value the most expensive the item).
That still wouldn't stop inflation, but it would reduce it buy reducing the currency supply growth rate.
The EC caps don't affect inflation, since they don't remove EC from the game.
They affect the total allowed money supply pool within the game, thus they affect inflation. Read a book on economics some time.
not sure why ppl got nut ab the tos connie. It's look... un-futuristic. Perhaps it was for the 60s or 70s, but definitely not for the 90s and later. For me the real star trek techs began from the movies and next gen. The tos connie doesnt look like a ship from the 23rd century tech. Hell we r at the 21st, and the techs we have look way better. I guess whoever wants the tos connie r old folk lol.
I think the OPPOSITE.
See, to me, smooth, sleek hulls are more advanced looking that stuff all gnarly, covered with greebles and kibble. And I feel the hulls would be woven, grown, printed or manifested. And, the slender bits shows to me, that they have VERY strong materials. The Klingon ships are the same.
The TOS Constitution took a nuclear blast, 100 meters from the epicenter. The TMP Constitution got mangled from torpedoes (which got NERFED big time since the Wrath of Khan) and phaser fire.
And not all of us TOS lovers are 'old folks' I'm only 37. And the T6 Constitution I got is my fav ship to fly.
Nop. The Tos connie got a satellite dish as a deflector dish lol. Soz, but a satellite dish cant protect the ship from micro meteorites from hi velocity. The ship will become a Swiss cheese lol. Why a deflector glows? because it emits hi energized particles and form a navigational shield. It also serves as a bussard collector. Hence, the satellite dish design is wrong since it doesnt reflect the required functions.
The best connie is the one in the 1st three movies and perhaps the Enterprise-A. The second best, imo, is the Enterprise-C. The designs were elegant and beautiful like a lady.
How is that worse than what we have? I'm quite content raising the market prices on console each day but seems like either a selling or relisting fee would stop some of the easy abuse that goes on.
Like the EC Cap on the Exchange pricing and individual characters, this only slows inflation- not stops it.
Even EVE Online, which not only has selling fee but which actively destroys player wealth (you lost the ship and everything on it if it is ever destroyed - one example: http://gameological.com/2013/07/eve-online-big-ship-oops/) still has inflation.
That said, slower inflation is better than rapid inflation. And open exchange markets are better than grey markets. Thus I'd like to see listing fees on the exchange and 'gift' fees on player to player trades. And the amount of these fees should be progressive (i.e. a larger % of the value the most expensive the item).
That still wouldn't stop inflation, but it would reduce it buy reducing the currency supply growth rate.
The EC caps don't affect inflation, since they don't remove EC from the game.
They affect the total allowed money supply pool within the game, thus they affect inflation. Read a book on economics some time.
Fascinating.
How exactly does this work in STO, how do EC caps affect "the total allowed money supply pool within the game", what does "the total allowed money supply pool within the game" mean, what is the actual significance of "the total allowed money supply pool within the game", and how exactly does it affect inflation?
I will sell you a car for one dollar less than the car dealership but I am your master and insist that you only drive it on wednesdays I am not a crazy control freak I am a normal person
Your choice as a consumer would be to to make your purchase from the dealership. You have been a vocal proponent of the seller dictating terms of sale and the potential buyer accepting those terms or not. If the terms are such you don't find them acceptable don't buy it.
The T6 temporal ships are one of the most prominent, "big ticket" purchases available in the game for the moment. In excess of 1B ec there are very few things with a higher price tag. What purchases might you have designs on if that amount wasn't significant compared to your total ingame currency? What do you buy for the Ferengi who has everything?
You seem uncomfortable with TAGH. Does this idea concern you because there is potential to be excluded yourself? If such an option were made available I doubt it would damage the flipping/resell market. Volumes of desirable commodities are too limited to meet demand and more dedicated sellers have larger nets to cast. This, and there are always going to be people who will opt for the high payout outnumbering the philanthropists. Worse case scenario a few little fish get away; Are you sure you aren't a control freak?
Having two types of listings in the exchange, "bound" and "unbound", is actually an interesting idea. Offhand, I can think of 2 very easy ways the 1% could utilize it to make a lot of EC and in the process create a permanent divide between bound and unbound listings. This divide could be milked hardcore style, making this whole TOS connie price thing look like trump change.
I'm sure even small fish like me could get their wealth building on with something like this, provided they understood the poor man's art of "singling out a stack".
It's like selling your old car to a kid rather than turning it into the dealer as trade on the new one. It might not be a good a return but there is a sentimentality attached to it. It might be a beater but looking back you remember how you felt about your first car just because it was yours. Knowing someone genuinely appreciates something and will give it some love feels pretty good and not taking something for it even if it's just a token lessens it.
It's not quite like selling a pretend spaceship to another person who appreciates pretend spaceships in a Star Trek MMO but it's the best analogy I can come up with. I don't know if this helps you to understand one possible motivation but the jist of it isn't denying the purchaser options but attaching a caveat that isn't at all a prohibition to the owner the resulting sale would attract.
Seems weird to be sentimental about an item or ship that has yet to be opened and bound. Is this about dictating what other people do, purely for the seller's benefit? It might be useful if you're trying to dump a whole lot of something and don't want the buyers to compete with you, so that you could continue to sell that item in bulk without tanking the market price in the process.
Also, I'm finding the earlier comparison to the fees and conditions associated with pet adoption and this "old car" thing to be a particularly strange. On the one hand the pet is alive and could die if given to an unsuitable person, on the other you've got some sort of personification thing going on with the car where it's also "alive" and could "die" if given to an unsuitable person.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a power trip thing or if some people actually feel their unopened STO space ship boxes are alive. It's a mystery.
Giving it away is fun to do too, but the thought of losing money so that I could control what someone else did with an item I sold them - and item that isn't mine anymore - is truly novel and thoroughly bizarre.
I think it's because you are approaching it from another angle. To me, the concept is more like giving those that really want an item for themselves the chance to get one without losing an organ in the process. It's being charitable in a way. It's akin to buying schoolbooks for a school with the premise that the school will use it for its students, rather than reselling it elsewhere.
Giving it away is fun to do too, but the thought of losing money so that I could control what someone else did with an item I sold them - and item that isn't mine anymore - is truly novel and thoroughly bizarre.
I think it's because you are approaching it from another angle. To me, the concept is more like giving those that really want an item for themselves the chance to get one without losing an organ in the process. It's being charitable in a way. It's akin to buying schoolbooks for a school with the premise that the school will use it for its students, rather than reselling it elsewhere.
Indeed, it's a kindness. it's like giving your concert ticket to a fan who will go to the show instead of selling it at scalper prices just because you can. A motivation other than greed, which can be very hard for those not driven by greed to understand.
Your friend wasn't given a bound object nor was he competing against flippers on the market. So, I don't care about the experience you just related as it's not relevant to the question at hand.
not sure why ppl got nut ab the tos connie. It's look... un-futuristic. Perhaps it was for the 60s or 70s, but definitely not for the 90s and later. For me the real star trek techs began from the movies and next gen. The tos connie doesnt look like a ship from the 23rd century tech. Hell we r at the 21st, and the techs we have look way better. I guess whoever wants the tos connie r old folk lol.
I think the OPPOSITE.
See, to me, smooth, sleek hulls are more advanced looking that stuff all gnarly, covered with greebles and kibble. And I feel the hulls would be woven, grown, printed or manifested. And, the slender bits shows to me, that they have VERY strong materials. The Klingon ships are the same.
The TOS Constitution took a nuclear blast, 100 meters from the epicenter. The TMP Constitution got mangled from torpedoes (which got NERFED big time since the Wrath of Khan) and phaser fire.
And not all of us TOS lovers are 'old folks' I'm only 37. And the T6 Constitution I got is my fav ship to fly.
Nop. The Tos connie got a satellite dish as a deflector dish lol. Soz, but a satellite dish cant protect the ship from micro meteorites from hi velocity. The ship will become a Swiss cheese lol. Why a deflector glows? because it emits hi energized particles and form a navigational shield. It also serves as a bussard collector. Hence, the satellite dish design is wrong since it doesnt reflect the required functions.
The best connie is the one in the 1st three movies and perhaps the Enterprise-A. The second best, imo, is the Enterprise-C. The designs were elegant and beautiful like a lady.
Times changed and so did canon. In particular, there was a massive shift between TOS/TMP and TNG, with the latter being handled by a completely different set of people. You can't judge the old stuff by the standards of the new.
It wasn't until TNG that the structure you're describing was called a "main deflector dish" and the function of navigational deflector assigned to it. There's little concrete information in black and white to be certain, but it's highly likely the navigational deflector was a different structure and the dish was instead some sort of long range sensor system.
This is how I always viewed it. The 'dish' on screen during the TOS and the movie eras were seen only on the Enterprise and appeared no where else that I can recall.
Not on the Klingons (TMP showed what might be mistaken as a 'dish' was their torpedo launcher). Not on the Romulan warbird. Not on the Tholians. Not on the warp shuttle. Not on the Reliant.
It seems to be something special for a single class, and a long range sensor for ship with extensive frontier duty certainly fits.
I believe that there's going to be a re-run of this promotion event sooner or later, just like they did it with some of the other promos. It would only make sense me thinks.
I believe that there's going to be a re-run of this promotion event sooner or later, just like they did it with some of the other promos. It would only make sense me thinks.
Were previous re-runs done yearly or with some other period?
If you ever find yourself answer a reply to a post with "this has nothing to do with X, because I was replying to Y" and X (in the case TAGH pros and cons, and understanding) was the subject of the thread...
You are off topic. It's a good test to give oneself.
I believe that there's going to be a re-run of this promotion event sooner or later, just like they did it with some of the other promos. It would only make sense me thinks.
Were previous re-runs done yearly or with some other period?
I don't think one can make a good prediction from that information. If I had to guess, due to Irregular dates and changes between the boxes it looks like Cryptic has a target number allowed in the game and re-runs them until it's reached. If so, there's no telling if that number was reached with the latest promo.
Comments
I remember when the only queue were for the Borg, they combined ground and space, it took hours to gather a solid team and hours to finish, and then get to the end but not get the borg item which today is just a rep project.
Lobi ships have never been cheaper to buy with ec. Buying my first lockbox ship, the Ferengi Marauder, left me nearly without resources for several months afterwards. No regrets it is still one my favorite ships. My next hard to get ship was the Bulwark. I rarely fly it, a shame since there are folks who would like to have it. Again, the mentality of many on this thread is that no one should have the pleasure of owning this irreplaceable ship.
STO's economy is amazingly generous.
Also agreed regarding tipping, actually the fact tips are even required is the problem. The system doesn't necessarily improve the experience because the experience is influenced by everything from the kitchen to the floor. The waiter is at the mercy of those factors, and the tips they do collect go into a common tip jar to be shared out. It's a hard way to make a living except in high end bars and restaurants. Businesses could simply pay their people well to begin with. I waited tables and bars for to get through college - it had its high points and I made good friends, but for the most part it was a soul crushing job.
Anyway, off to go alternate between my T6 heavy and light connies. Fun ships, especially the light cruiser.
My character Tsin'xing
Basically confining inflation to lockbox and promo ships, at least in my experience. The introduction of the infinity boxes are responsible for this combined with the low drop rate of the best ships from those boxes. This results in a large supply of just about everything except those high end ships. So prices dropped on those, and due to the money supply in the game- went through the roof for those ships.
To be honest, it's not a bad way to run IMO.
They affect the total allowed money supply pool within the game, thus they affect inflation. Read a book on economics some time.
Nop. The Tos connie got a satellite dish as a deflector dish lol. Soz, but a satellite dish cant protect the ship from micro meteorites from hi velocity. The ship will become a Swiss cheese lol. Why a deflector glows? because it emits hi energized particles and form a navigational shield. It also serves as a bussard collector. Hence, the satellite dish design is wrong since it doesnt reflect the required functions.
The best connie is the one in the 1st three movies and perhaps the Enterprise-A. The second best, imo, is the Enterprise-C. The designs were elegant and beautiful like a lady.
Fascinating.
How exactly does this work in STO, how do EC caps affect "the total allowed money supply pool within the game", what does "the total allowed money supply pool within the game" mean, what is the actual significance of "the total allowed money supply pool within the game", and how exactly does it affect inflation?
Your choice as a consumer would be to to make your purchase from the dealership. You have been a vocal proponent of the seller dictating terms of sale and the potential buyer accepting those terms or not. If the terms are such you don't find them acceptable don't buy it.
The T6 temporal ships are one of the most prominent, "big ticket" purchases available in the game for the moment. In excess of 1B ec there are very few things with a higher price tag. What purchases might you have designs on if that amount wasn't significant compared to your total ingame currency? What do you buy for the Ferengi who has everything?
You seem uncomfortable with TAGH. Does this idea concern you because there is potential to be excluded yourself? If such an option were made available I doubt it would damage the flipping/resell market. Volumes of desirable commodities are too limited to meet demand and more dedicated sellers have larger nets to cast. This, and there are always going to be people who will opt for the high payout outnumbering the philanthropists. Worse case scenario a few little fish get away; Are you sure you aren't a control freak?
I'm sure even small fish like me could get their wealth building on with something like this, provided they understood the poor man's art of "singling out a stack".
It's not quite like selling a pretend spaceship to another person who appreciates pretend spaceships in a Star Trek MMO but it's the best analogy I can come up with. I don't know if this helps you to understand one possible motivation but the jist of it isn't denying the purchaser options but attaching a caveat that isn't at all a prohibition to the owner the resulting sale would attract.
Also, I'm finding the earlier comparison to the fees and conditions associated with pet adoption and this "old car" thing to be a particularly strange. On the one hand the pet is alive and could die if given to an unsuitable person, on the other you've got some sort of personification thing going on with the car where it's also "alive" and could "die" if given to an unsuitable person.
I'm honestly not sure if this is a power trip thing or if some people actually feel their unopened STO space ship boxes are alive. It's a mystery.
I think it's because you are approaching it from another angle. To me, the concept is more like giving those that really want an item for themselves the chance to get one without losing an organ in the process. It's being charitable in a way. It's akin to buying schoolbooks for a school with the premise that the school will use it for its students, rather than reselling it elsewhere.
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Indeed, it's a kindness. it's like giving your concert ticket to a fan who will go to the show instead of selling it at scalper prices just because you can. A motivation other than greed, which can be very hard for those not driven by greed to understand.
Your friend wasn't given a bound object nor was he competing against flippers on the market. So, I don't care about the experience you just related as it's not relevant to the question at hand.
So off-topic then.
This is how I always viewed it. The 'dish' on screen during the TOS and the movie eras were seen only on the Enterprise and appeared no where else that I can recall.
Not on the Klingons (TMP showed what might be mistaken as a 'dish' was their torpedo launcher). Not on the Romulan warbird. Not on the Tholians. Not on the warp shuttle. Not on the Reliant.
It seems to be something special for a single class, and a long range sensor for ship with extensive frontier duty certainly fits.
In ESD chat I see a lot of offers for around 275 Keys now.
Were previous re-runs done yearly or with some other period?
If you ever find yourself answer a reply to a post with "this has nothing to do with X, because I was replying to Y" and X (in the case TAGH pros and cons, and understanding) was the subject of the thread...
You are off topic. It's a good test to give oneself.
It is on topic, you're simple unable to comprehend the context really.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Promotion!_-_Research_&_Development_Pack
Have a look
I comprehend that it's it a personal thing with nothing to do with STO. Thus, off topic.
Thanks for the link.
I don't think one can make a good prediction from that information. If I had to guess, due to Irregular dates and changes between the boxes it looks like Cryptic has a target number allowed in the game and re-runs them until it's reached. If so, there's no telling if that number was reached with the latest promo.