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Rebalancing the captains - remove AP Alpha

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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    kiksken wrote: »
    Actually, give us Tacs the option to teach Alpha to our Bridge officers, dangit! :(

    Heh, don't you think there's been enough power creep lately ? :mrgreen:

    To paraphrase one of Starlfeet's greatest captains EVER:

    When it comes to MOAR Powercreep ... Never give up, Never Surrender!

    ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    hanover2 wrote: »
    What about this as an alternative? At level 60, you can select a lesser version of one desired ability from one of the other careers. So if you're a Sci, you can pick APA1 or MW1. An Eng chooses between APA1 and....Subnucleonic Beam 1? And Tacs would then choose between MW1 and SNB1.

    Because APA+SNB can't end badly at all...
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    A. By posting this suggestion, I give up upon any intelectual rights or content property of the ideas posted on this reply itself, regardless of them being implemented or not into the gameplay. (to avoid the "Won't implement suggestion due to intelectual property gimmicks)

    B. Indeed, some changes are welcome. I brought some changes to balance the classes. No new skills, just reworked one of the each-class based skills.

    C. The content.

    Attack pattern Alpha (new)

    Concept: Turning APA from an exclusive buff into a normal attack pattern, strictly available to the Tactical specialists.

    - Cooldown -1 minute (from 2 minutes initial) - Shares a 15 second cooldown with Attack Pattern Omega
    (The cooldown reduction and the APO cooldown shared will balance the use of APO on tac and give a slight advantage to non-tacs using tactical skills like APO and will shake the whole dynamic of high-dps builds)

    Stats given / buff bonus - state: - For a 15 second duration (from initial 30 seconds)
    +10% all damage (lowered all damage bonus, to be on par with the cooldown reduction, but must-be cat1 - applied after all buffs and multiplications have been made)
    +2.5% critical chance increased (Lesser number - basically 100% bonus to the basic unmodded crth of the character)
    +15% critical severity (bonus is lowered, because the APA is reworked and will have different bonuses)
    +15% flight speed (not too much, yet still present)
    +30% turn rate (slightly reduced, due to lower cooldown)
    +decreased Weapon drain by 10% while APA is active (slight help to energy weapon users)
    +10% ship weapon damage (basic damage bonus from base weapon damage)
    +15% torpedo kinetic damage (strictly kinetic to help the torpedo users)

    effect: The new APA will help integration of the APO in more non-tac builds and will encourage the tacs to play a lesser imbalanced PvP-related survivability and damage from stacked Spike-damage with APO on.


    Nadion Inversion (new)

    Concept: The newly Nadion Inversion has benefits to bring the Engineers back into the DPS race without taking the tacs down ath their own game, also giving them a chance to boost their exotic abilities as well due to superior stats.

    - Cooldown - 1 minute

    Stats given / buff bonus - state: - for a 20 second duration (1/3 uptime)
    + Weapon Drain reduced by 25% while in effect.
    + Resistance to Subsystem Drains
    + 15 Max power to all Subsystems while in effect (to allow a dps+survivability boost) (will not cap with OSS or other Max power)
    + Decreased Transfer rate by 66% while in effect (encourages the usage of the other EPS Transfer buff to combo-up and locks the Engineer with Warp Cores/Singularities with transfer speed instead of stats/max stats)
    + Subsystems cannot be offline under the effect of Nadion Inversion for the first 10 seconds.
    + Miracle Worker cannot be deployed while under the effect of Nadion Inversion.

    effect: The new Nadion Inversion is allowing Engineers to come out strong in the space combat, encouraging their damage and survivability throughout stats, but locking out some advantages while in effect in order to avoid PvP imbalance.


    Senson Scan - cooldown - 1 minute

    Stats given/buff bonus state - for 30 seconds
    +Default enemy debuffs from the old Senson Scan
    +15% Exotic abilities damage (adds superior exotic capabilities in combo with Sci traits)
    +15% accuracy (It's a sensor scan, after all)
    +15% shield bleedthrough to all of the affected targets for projectiles (Boosts the torp-capabilities, also supporting torpedo dps)
    +Targets affected by Sensor Scan cannot be affected by Sensor Scan for the next 2 minutes (keeping it balanced, but pve-effective)
    +Targets affected by Sensor Scan cannot be affected by Subnucleonic Beam's cooldown debuff (To avoid OP pvp debuff stacking)
    +Decloaks enemy targets within the area.
    -15 weapons power while in effect for the caster for 15 seconds (the energy is being diverted into the deflector to make the Senson Scan - other systems would have impaired a science ship seriously. Weapons are the best thing to drain out of, being easily mitigated).


    The idea of these three skills is to encourage active gameplay, lower cooldowns and balance classes without dethroning the tacticals which we all love, but empowering engineers and science captains as well into doing what they do best. Feel free to come with feedback and waiting for the staff's opinion on the ideas. I know it's alot to implement, but it's for the future updates.

    I also state that I do not expect nor receive any gratification for the implementation of my ideas into the game, having the single purpose of improving STO experience for everyone, including me (7 toons, 5 tacs, 1 engineer, 1 sci).
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    I can agree it is always best to use a combination of both nerfs to those abilities/talents/traits that are working at a degree higher than a preset/determined balance point, while also using buffs to those abilities/traits/talents that are working at degrees below this same preset balance set. This can also work to combat power-creep from getting too out of hand. As you would merely set the balance point that you buff/nerf your abilities/traits/talents to, as being where content is still interesting/challenging to play thru. Hell in this way cryptic could still have ships/traits/purchases set to a level high enough to be worth the cost, but without trivializing the content nearly as much as they do at times.
  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 530 Arc User
    Now I am getting agitated, this thread should have died days ago
    You want to talk op, lets talk op
    Remove beam fire at will III
    Remove Torpedo spread III
    Remove Science officer ability to pull all ships together for massive kinetic aoe damage
    Remove Miracle worker too much survivability
    How does that sound? I think those abilities are too op, so because I think that, we must hurt those classes and remove those abilities. I trust I have made my point.



    Attack patter alpha is crucial to the tac, as much as Miracle worker is to the Engineer. You people I swear /sigh
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    gaalom wrote: »
    Now I am getting agitated, this thread should have died days ago
    You want to talk op, lets talk op
    Remove beam fire at will III
    Remove Torpedo spread III
    Remove Science officer ability to pull all ships together for massive kinetic aoe damage
    Remove Miracle worker too much survivability
    How does that sound? I think those abilities are too op, so because I think that, we must hurt those classes and remove those abilities. I trust I have made my point.



    Attack patter alpha is crucial to the tac, as much as Miracle worker is to the Engineer. You people I swear /sigh

    Oh and why is that? Why should a thread die since one person wants it to? If you do not like what is being talked about than don't read the thread.

    Also Three of those abilities are able to be used by all three careers, since they are not tied to a career but a boff/seat slot on your ship. Even though they might need tweaks they are largely equally op between all three careers, with only tactical captains getting better use out of them (why a tactical captain is going to be more effective at using a science ability than a science captain is weird.).

    Miracle worker is pretty nice to have an about on par with senor scan, but not nearly on the same level of strength as apa for tactical captains. Also most people are not saying take away apa from tactical captains at all, but merely adjust how it works to make it affect only the area tactical captains focus on, which is weapon-based damage overall based on their own wiki description.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    gaalom wrote: »
    Now I am getting agitated, this thread should have died days ago
    You want to talk op, lets talk op
    Remove beam fire at will III
    Remove Torpedo spread III
    Remove Science officer ability to pull all ships together for massive kinetic aoe damage
    Remove Miracle worker too much survivability
    How does that sound? I think those abilities are too op, so because I think that, we must hurt those classes and remove those abilities. I trust I have made my point.



    Attack patter alpha is crucial to the tac, as much as Miracle worker is to the Engineer. You people I swear /sigh

    We're talking about a slight adjustment done to all three classes on a single skill. Nothing to imbalance. My concept is upwards. You just cried in the fear of the nerf-bat. It is completely right that we shouldn't nerf all. But those three skill could use an adjustment in order to encourage class utility and diversity. It's all tacs. And honestly, when in a pug, I see engis and scis, I know I'm gonna carry them... home. And I want that changed. Do you too?
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    casualsto wrote: »
    b]Attack pattern Alpha[/b] (new)

    Concept: Turning APA from an exclusive buff into a normal attack pattern, strictly available to the Tactical specialists.

    - Cooldown -1 minute (from 2 minutes initial) - Shares a 15 second cooldown with Attack Pattern Omega
    (The cooldown reduction and the APO cooldown shared will balance the use of APO on tac and give a slight advantage to non-tacs using tactical skills like APO and will shake the whole dynamic of high-dps builds)

    Stats given / buff bonus - state: - For a 15 second duration (from initial 30 seconds)
    +10% all damage (lowered all damage bonus, to be on par with the cooldown reduction, but must-be cat1 - applied after all buffs and multiplications have been made)
    +2.5% critical chance increased (Lesser number - basically 100% bonus to the basic unmodded crth of the character)
    +15% critical severity (bonus is lowered, because the APA is reworked and will have different bonuses)
    +15% flight speed (not too much, yet still present)
    +30% turn rate (slightly reduced, due to lower cooldown)
    +decreased Weapon drain by 10% while APA is active (slight help to energy weapon users)
    +10% ship weapon damage (basic damage bonus from base weapon damage)
    +15% torpedo kinetic damage (strictly kinetic to help the torpedo users)

    effect: The new APA will help integration of the APO in more non-tac builds and will encourage the tacs to play a lesser imbalanced PvP-related survivability and damage from stacked Spike-damage with APO on.

    I think it's safe to say that anyone who knows cat 1 buffs apply to base damage will reject this. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about APA sharing with APO (and mysteriously not APB or APD). I would do away with your shared cooldown addition and while leaving the +10% all cat 1, make the other two damage buffs cat 2.
    Nadion Inversion (new)

    Concept: The newly Nadion Inversion has benefits to bring the Engineers back into the DPS race without taking the tacs down ath their own game, also giving them a chance to boost their exotic abilities as well due to superior stats.

    - Cooldown - 1 minute

    Stats given / buff bonus - state: - for a 20 second duration (1/3 uptime)
    + Weapon Drain reduced by 25% while in effect.
    + Resistance to Subsystem Drains
    + 15 Max power to all Subsystems while in effect (to allow a dps+survivability boost) (will not cap with OSS or other Max power)
    + Decreased Transfer rate by 66% while in effect (encourages the usage of the other EPS Transfer buff to combo-up and locks the Engineer with Warp Cores/Singularities with transfer speed instead of stats/max stats)
    + Subsystems cannot be offline under the effect of Nadion Inversion for the first 10 seconds.
    + Miracle Worker cannot be deployed while under the effect of Nadion Inversion.

    effect: The new Nadion Inversion is allowing Engineers to come out strong in the space combat, encouraging their damage and survivability throughout stats, but locking out some advantages while in effect in order to avoid PvP imbalance.

    No. Just no. You can't take something that resists drain to all systems and make it weapons only. As to the decreased transfer rate, that forces an engineer to use both their damage boosts at once which strikes me as naff at best. Finally, why should I not be able to use MW while using NI?
    Senson Scan - cooldown - 1 minute

    Stats given/buff bonus state - for 30 seconds
    +Default enemy debuffs from the old Senson Scan
    +15% Exotic abilities damage (adds superior exotic capabilities in combo with Sci traits)
    +15% accuracy (It's a sensor scan, after all)
    +15% shield bleedthrough to all of the affected targets for projectiles (Boosts the torp-capabilities, also supporting torpedo dps)
    +Targets affected by Sensor Scan cannot be affected by Sensor Scan for the next 2 minutes (keeping it balanced, but pve-effective)
    +Targets affected by Sensor Scan cannot be affected by Subnucleonic Beam's cooldown debuff (To avoid OP pvp debuff stacking)
    +Decloaks enemy targets within the area.
    -15 weapons power while in effect for the caster for 15 seconds (the energy is being diverted into the deflector to make the Senson Scan - other systems would have impaired a science ship seriously. Weapons are the best thing to drain out of, being easily mitigated).

    This went from alright to OP as heck to no. +15% exotic damage, really not needed when you're already inflicting -45% damage resist on something. +15% accuracy would make more sense as +CrtH/D (you're not more aware of where the target is but where to hit it), shield bleedthrough, why?
    Can't affect a target more than once every two minutes, but the cooldown is one minute, it also screws with team play and finally, why am I allowed to inflict -50% resist (APB3) 5 times for every Recluse using elite mesh weavers for a total of -1250% resist and I can do that multiple times a minute but you wouldn't allow me -45% more than once every 2?
    Then there's the issue with SNB in that line you basically nullify science's role in pvp besides, even when sci was important to getting a kill, it was still the tactical who overcame the resists to get the kill, science was there to facilitate it.
    -15 weapons, does my ship not have enough power to run my primary systems properly? Should I go and talk to Starfleet engineering about why they couldn't build a ship properly? Besides, if it must have a drain, make it -5 Aux, at least that makes some semblance of sense.

    EDIT: Quote fixes.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    One thing I think that might make sensor scan a bit more interesting would be to add this to the ability as an interactions of sensor scan with sensor analyst.
      Sensor scan
    • When sensor scan is used on a target already affected by the science ship ability sensor analyst it will apply 3 stacks of sensor analyst on the target, now keep in mind with the change made after season nine you only have a max of 6 stacks that stack up at one stack per 3 seconds.
    • Also when using sensor scan on a sensor analyst lock-on target it will apply the same number of stacks applied to the main /lock-on target to all targets within the sensor scan range. The effect applied to those targets affected by sensor can being based on if they are allies thus gaining the bonus healing, or enemy thus bonus damage an energy drain, and the sensor analyst effect granted to the non-locked on targets last for 20 seconds.

    This could also make science ships abit more desirable to use an fly, though I personally would have rather have seen them make it that the aux power level you have affects the rate at which your sensor scan progresses at. Such as that if you have your aux power level set to 75 than it would be a normal stacking rate of one stack per 6 seconds, while at a power level of 125 it would stack at a rate of one stack per 2 seconds, but do keep in mind this is based on the pre-season nine changes.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    Perhaps all these wannabe game designers should stop wasting time complaining about this game and develop their own instead. Nearly every single day, there are one or more threads wanting to change something about the game. For the same B.S. reason too. They put it forward in a long winded and overly pompous W.O.T. as some sort of "improvement" to STO which will also cause world peace to occur and feed starving children in Africa at the same time.

    What they really want is for the Devs to cater to their personal desires and "fix" the game in such a fashion so that no matter how badly they play STO, they will still be able to kill the EBIL! enemy NPC frigate which is giving them fits with one shot. If this game were any easier to play, it would be on Facebook.

    I have a pair of newsflashes for ya, Cupcake. Water is wet, and, the only thing "broken" here about STO is the way you play it.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    The way to nerf the Tactical profession is to allow enemies to actually be dangerous. Being dead because you didn't use ANY of your resources/choices defensively tends to lower one's DPS. But essentially nothing in the game exerts enough pressure to make defensive choices desirable.
  • nitefiuunitefiuu Member Posts: 253 Arc User
    rahmkota19 wrote: »

    hahaha my sides about this topic too
    Battle Trek Online: KILL EVERYTHING
  • kelshandokelshando Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    Funny how my SCI captain with a sci dps built ships... seems to beat those OP tac captains with there OP AP all the time...

    As far as ground combat.. tac is ok.. and in a running battle maybe better then eng.. but in static fights.. eng are better then tac captains in ground combat.. and SCI.. woe unto thee who screws around with a sci dps build as well as even with a dps build they have strong heals... with proximity bomb pulling everything into a pile and large aoe damage that ignore shields.. ya don't mess with sci in ground combat..
  • delliboydelliboy Member Posts: 288 Arc User
    Momma I can't kill things fast enough. So remove this power. Please
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    You know one surefire way to end powercreep, and to make your ENG, SCI, Hybrid, Whatever character feel just as powerful as a tactical captain?

    Play PVE, only on NORMAL level difficulty.

    Viola.

    Problem solved.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    Or just leave the game as it is and learn to adapt to the game design.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    I would much rather have the engineer and science captain abilities improved/buffed.

    Back when legacy of Romulus released, I made my Romulan a science captain beefier l because it was the one profession I had never leveled. I definitely regretted it - science abilities are just unremarkable and boring, both on the ground and in space. The only ability I really liked was photonic fleet.

    I would definitely like some improvements to engineer space abilities too, ground is fun with all the "pets" (turrets, mortars, mines, drones, generators, shields, etc), but they get nothing "cool" or really fun to use in space.

    Pretty much this, the other captain abilities should be made more useful.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
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