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New graphics on tribble are horrible, gaint step backwards so far.

pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,638 Arc User
Anyone else tried the new graphics and finding they ruin the game? Scenes swap from being so dark you cannot see anything to being over bright, washed out and full of haze, fog and loss of detail.

Shadows are a massive step backwards. I am standing in the doorway next to the exchange and no shadows then a few steps forward and shadows grow around me. Completely unnatural and look really bad as you move around, worse then what we have now. It doesn’t look good having shadows appear and disappear as you move. It’s almost like the new graphics cannot handle shadows from further then 2 meters away. The screenshot shows how drastically shadows change in a short matter of steps.

Shadows.jpg

I am starting to get very worried about this so called upgrade. Almost all the after dev screenshots look worse and now after trying the upgrade on Tribble its just as bad if not worse then the screenshots and the devs seem to be ignoring player feedback. Most of the feedback in the screenshots threads has been how the after shots look worse but zero feedback on all the comments.

A large amount of graphics effects seem to be downgraded or are missing. This has caused the atmosphere in many areas to be ruined. Areas that used to be spooky and should be spooky are now washed out and overly bright. Other areas like the Na’kuhl bridge are now cartoony. A large amount of areas have lost nice graphics effects like the Vorgon bridge which used to look stunning no longer has crystal inlays, no moving colours, no reflective materials. The Xindi bridges have lost all shadows. Ground plasma leaks have vanished, water no longer catches light, water ripple effects and reflections are mostly gone and well I don't have time right now to list all the graphics effects that are missing or look worse.

The short version is many areas that used to look stunning have turned into washed out blandness and have lost a lot of detail. I hope the upgrade is far from finished as what's on tribble and the before and after screens shots are a massive step backwards. The new lighting is technically a graphics upgrade as its more advanced but the new graphics looks far worse then the old less advanced graphics.
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Comments

  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,820 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Anyone else tried the new graphics and finding they ruin the game? Scenes swap from being so dark you cannot see anything to being over bright, washed out and full of haze, fog and loss of detail.

    Shadows are a massive step backwards. I am standing in the doorway next to the exchange and no shadows then a few steps forward and shadows grow around me. Completely unnatural and look really bad as you move around, worse then what we have now. It doesn’t look good having shadows appear and disappear as you move. It’s almost like the new graphics cannot handle shadows from further then 2 meters away. The screenshot shows how drastically shadows change in a short matter of steps.

    Shadows.jpg

    I am starting to get very worried about this so called upgrade. Almost all the after dev screenshots look worse and now after trying the upgrade on Tribble its just as bad if not worse then the screenshots and the devs seem to be ignoring player feedback. Most of the feedback in the screenshots threads has been how the after shots look worse but zero feedback on all the comments.

    A large amount of graphics effects seem to be downgraded or are missing. This has caused the atmosphere in many areas to be ruined. Areas that used to be spooky and should be spooky are now washed out and overly bright. Other areas like the Na’kuhl bridge are now cartoony. A large amount of areas have lost nice graphics effects like the Vorgon bridge which used to look stunning no longer has crystal inlays, no moving colours, no reflective materials. The Xindi bridges have lost all shadows. Ground plasma leaks have vanished, water no longer catches light, water ripple effects and reflections are mostly gone and well I don't have time right now to list all the graphics effects that are missing or look worse.

    The short version is many areas that used to look stunning have turned into washed out blandness and have lost a lot of detail. I hope the upgrade is far from finished as what's on tribble and the before and after screens shots are a massive step backwards. The new lighting is technically a graphics upgrade as its more advanced but the new graphics looks far worse then the old less advanced graphics.

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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    Is there some reason you can't post on the test server board where these concerns might actually be acted on?
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    I am, also, seeing similar weirdness on Tribble.
    I decided, since it is the first run at it, I am just going to wait until the next Tribble update and see if things improve.

    Then, I will start complaining. LOL!
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,750 Arc User
    I'll admit, when I look at the 'before and after' screenshots they keep posting.. nine times out of ten I think the original screen shot looked better.

    This 'graphics update' seems to be to be just what the OP said.. they just made everything brighter which in a lot of cases does more to expose the limitations of the graphics engine. In a lot of cases, the darker areas are a good thing, they mask the horrible texture problems and inferior shadowing.

    I'm not all that into this 'upgrade' myself, I haven't tried it live yet, but the screen shots have been underwhelming in my opinion.
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  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    I dunno, I liked some of the 'After' screenshots a lot, as currently a lot of lighting in some locations make it look rather dull, losing on some of the depth. I'd say matter of opinion here - and I've yet to check the 'real-deal', but I'm kind of waiting for them to put in more time, before making any final opinions on this. :smiley:
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  • angarus1angarus1 Member Posts: 683 Arc User
    Runs a lot better than the graphics on Holo though. :p
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,750 Arc User
    I dunno, I liked some of the 'After' screenshots a lot, as currently a lot of lighting in some locations make it look rather dull, losing on some of the depth. I'd say matter of opinion here - and I've yet to check the 'real-deal', but I'm kind of waiting for them to put in more time, before making any final opinions on this. :smiley:

    I have seen a few areas where the after was better, but most of the time I thought they were either equal, or I like the 'before' better.

    To be perfectly honest, it's not going to make a huge difference to me either way, half the time I'll be unlikely to even notice because I'll be too busy fending off enemies to stop and look at the lights. :)
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    One thing I am kinda confused about is this DX11 thing. My computer runs with DX11 on Holodeck....no noticeable issues with the graphics. Switch over to Tribble and this new upgraded lighting....or whatever they did with the graphics....I get rips in the scenery, shadows coming and going, etc...

    Oh and screen shots will lock up the STO program on Tribble, now...I have to force windows to exit out of it.

    So. Yeah. Waiting for the next incarnation on Tribble...
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  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    To be perfectly honest, it's not going to make a huge difference to me either way, half the time I'll be unlikely to even notice because I'll be too busy fending off enemies to stop and look at the lights. :)
    I notice because I take screenshots a lot & prettier looking lights would make for greater screenshot-making. My favorite pass-time in better times. :3

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I think the distance shadows are visible at is part of the terrain detail distance setting.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,638 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    I think the distance shadows are visible at is part of the terrain detail distance setting.
    I had every setting I could find at max.

    Been playing some more and rushed some side by side shots that are not perfect. Would have been better to use the same alt copied over to tribble and same position but not got time now. Still the new shots are washed out and have far too much haze all over.

    https://s12.postimg.org/m8cc7fxz1/sidebyside_1.jpg
    https://s12.postimg.org/t02raamyl/sidebyside_2.jpg

    https://postimg.org/image/s9a14ikl5/
    https://postimg.org/image/e4482pbjt/
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,106 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    As i said on other posts.. i like some, i dont like some, but the working is just in the first phase, so no complains, there is a lot i like, because it looks great, like drozana, other looks terrible, like starbase 39..
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  • discojerdiscojer Member Posts: 530 Arc User
    Well, let's just be thankful they don't give it a true console makeover and make everything brownish yellow
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,463 Arc User
    What makes the new worse lighting effect worse is, that AMD cards are still doing to experience the Device Driver Hung issue. It would be nice if the people at PWE could actually fix this issue when using medium or high shadows. )=
  • tacofangstacofangs Member Posts: 2,951 Cryptic Developer
    Shadows popping in and out isn't an option you can control. There is a hard limit on the number of shadow casting lights that can be drawing shadows at once. When you move from one space to another (for instance, from the Concourse, into the Exchange), it's re-choosing which lights' shadows to display. The "solution", and something we do fairly often, is to turn shadows off of some lights entirely, so that they don't compete with others.

    Invariably, there are going to be some bad spots. Perhaps the exchange is one of those. When you see places where the shadows are popping in directly in front of you (not down the hallway a ways), post about it, and we'll take a look.

    In the above case, we might be able to turn off shadows on some nearby lights to keep them from competing so much.
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  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,106 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Shadows popping in and out isn't an option you can control. There is a hard limit on the number of shadow casting lights that can be drawing shadows at once. When you move from one space to another (for instance, from the Concourse, into the Exchange), it's re-choosing which lights' shadows to display. The "solution", and something we do fairly often, is to turn shadows off of some lights entirely, so that they don't compete with others.

    Invariably, there are going to be some bad spots. Perhaps the exchange is one of those. When you see places where the shadows are popping in directly in front of you (not down the hallway a ways), post about it, and we'll take a look.

    In the above case, we might be able to turn off shadows on some nearby lights to keep them from competing so much.

    Thanks for the Info, will you or anyone else implement a feedback tread about the lighting?, we would love to help!
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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,734 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    I think the distance shadows are visible at is part of the terrain detail distance setting.
    I had every setting I could find at max.

    Been playing some more and rushed some side by side shots that are not perfect. Would have been better to use the same alt copied over to tribble and same position but not got time now. Still the new shots are washed out and have far too much haze all over.

    https://s12.postimg.org/m8cc7fxz1/sidebyside_1.jpg
    https://s12.postimg.org/t02raamyl/sidebyside_2.jpg

    https://postimg.org/image/s9a14ikl5/
    https://postimg.org/image/e4482pbjt/

    Not a huge fan of the new lightning, at least not in the stills I have seen. The bright lights really seems to just wash everything out.
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  • irm1963irm1963 Member Posts: 677 Arc User
    It is brighter than I'd prefer, but dropping the brightness slider down a bit (85% in my case) was sufficient to dampen that down just enough.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    It would be nice if the general brightness was toned down to be in line with what we have right now. Obviously of course it would still be brighter since we have reflective lighting etc.
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  • scarlingscarling Member Posts: 708 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    What makes the new worse lighting effect worse is, that AMD cards are still doing to experience the Device Driver Hung issue. It would be nice if the people at PWE could actually fix this issue when using medium or high shadows. )=

    This. Stop ignoring AMD issues. I haven't been able to use a maxed out DX11 in a very, very long time.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    @tacofangs thank you for continuing to wade into the sewer that is these forums to talk with us, and let us know facts.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,106 Arc User
    Also some lighting takes a few seconds to adjust, similar to if you have just been in a dark room and someone turns on a light, these two shots are about 5 seconds apart.

    KKdwPo1.jpg

    m82BvUy.jpg

    This looks wrong though

    NfMNFRX.jpg

    It could be the reflection on the glass?, as its not receiving lightprobe information, it just reflect White light from the enviroment light?
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  • zbzznzbzzn Member Posts: 221 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Shadows are a massive step backwards. I am standing in the doorway next to the exchange and no shadows then a few steps forward and shadows grow around me. Completely unnatural and look really bad as you move around, worse then what we have now. It doesn’t look good having shadows appear and disappear as you move. It’s almost like the new graphics cannot handle shadows from further then 2 meters away. The screenshot shows how drastically shadows change in a short matter of steps.

    Shadows.jpg

    It seems silly for static objects to have dynamic shadows. Those should be baked-in lightmaps.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,638 Arc User
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Shadows popping in and out isn't an option you can control. There is a hard limit on the number of shadow casting lights that can be drawing shadows at once. When you move from one space to another (for instance, from the Concourse, into the Exchange), it's re-choosing which lights' shadows to display. The "solution", and something we do fairly often, is to turn shadows off of some lights entirely, so that they don't compete with others.

    Invariably, there are going to be some bad spots. Perhaps the exchange is one of those. When you see places where the shadows are popping in directly in front of you (not down the hallway a ways), post about it, and we'll take a look.

    In the above case, we might be able to turn off shadows on some nearby lights to keep them from competing so much.

    Thank you for the information although I wonder why its so much worse in STO then other game engines. I have not seen shadow pops that bad in years.

    What about the environments that should be clean and controlled like inside star ships but are full of haze/fog so bad you cannot see clearly to the other side of the room. Can the washed out and bland look that appears in lots of areas be fixed? Well all the missing nice lighting effects be re added like “water no longer catches light, water ripple effects and reflections are mostly gone”

    What about the areas that jump from super dark to super bright in a matter of seconds? Another area that I found overly washed out is beaming to your star ship bridge then travel in the turbolift. Its so bright and washed out the doors look pink ish and my characters red hair is all faded and washed out almost towards pink.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    It's still a work in progress, but I do share some of the concerns.
    I'll admit, when I look at the 'before and after' screenshots they keep posting.. nine times out of ten I think the original screen shot looked better.

    This 'graphics update' seems to be to be just what the OP said.. they just made everything brighter which in a lot of cases does more to expose the limitations of the graphics engine. In a lot of cases, the darker areas are a good thing, they mask the horrible texture problems and inferior shadowing.

    Indeed. Elachi interiors or Hassan's stronghold for example, look a lot better when it's actually a bit darker.

    And the OP has some point too. That shadow looks like there's an entire star somewhere inside that room. It's just way too big. New lighting may be good, but in cases like these it's just too much and very unnatural. Especially since it's an interior room. No one lights his rooms that much, certainly not when the Remans are an allied species :p
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    zbzzn wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Shadows are a massive step backwards. I am standing in the doorway next to the exchange and no shadows then a few steps forward and shadows grow around me. Completely unnatural and look really bad as you move around, worse then what we have now. It doesn’t look good having shadows appear and disappear as you move. It’s almost like the new graphics cannot handle shadows from further then 2 meters away. The screenshot shows how drastically shadows change in a short matter of steps.

    Shadows.jpg

    It seems silly for static objects to have dynamic shadows. Those should be baked-in lightmaps.

    With a system that simulates bounced light its silly to have lightmaps.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • daviesdaviesdaviesdavies Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited September 2016
    It looks awfull maybe the devs didnt give much thoughts or time for stuffs like that
    usualy casted shadows are avoided in "calm" or "peacefull" interior scenes
    especialy Federation themed places for gathering
    in real public space ( library, international airport, malls )
    you can see there are multiple tiny (spot)lights spaced evenly over ceiling,
    the lack of such measures indicates a low quality place ( crappy public parks in poor cities )
    or non-living space which isnt meant for people to stay around ( like outhouse , storage or garage )

    more shadows => more crappy place



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