I'm a pre-launch lifer, but I haven't played very much in the last few years. I've recently tried to dabble, and a lot of the new mechanics are confusing, so I've been taking it slow. I decided I was ready for a new ship (since exclusively using the Aventine-class since it launched), and love the Kelvin-verse look.
I'm having the hardest stupid time picking between the ships. What are the pro/cons of each? I saw that you can get the Kelvin-Dreadnought through the Lobi store - is that permanent? If so, that makes purchasing the Constitution with credits make way more sense. My stipend that I've gathered up was close 10k Zen points (pretty sure it should be more, but customer service was a no-show), so I spent all of it on Master Keys and sold them all. I now have 422 million credits, which is enough to buy either.
Having not been on since AoY launched, I'm unsure of pricing. The lowest one on the exchange currently is 395 million. Is that standard!? Holy cow. How does the equipment with them work? Do they all come with purpled-out equipment slots, or generic white like most ships? Will I also need to spend bazillions getting Kelvin-verse weapons from the exchange?
I love the design of both ships, so picking my favorite that way isn't helping at all. I read the thread another user posted reviewing both ships, but that didn't contain the answers to these questions! I know this is a deluge of scattered questions, so I appreciate your patience. Dropping back in was not as smooth as I expected!
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They come with basically generic gear, except it's Kelvin themed. BUt it's still only Mark X commons. (And I think they might not be upgradeable, not sure on that.)
I find the "Konnie" is the better looking ship. (I own both, one character got the Konnie, another got the Vengeance.)
Mechanically speaking, the Vengeance is probably the better one.
I'm a pre-launch lifer too, and it seems to me the Connie is going to be my default ship until the server goes down. Between that ship, and sometimes wapping between my Vengeance or Recluse to either help a group or indulge a whim for something different, everything else I have is pretty much going to collect dust.
For the weapons the ships come pre-packed with, they are Mk X common Kelvin Timeline weapons. My Vengeance came with 4x KT Phaser emitters and 1x KT Photon torp fore, then 2x KT Phaser emitters and 1x KT Photon torp aft. They don't even have the 'Upgrade' option in their right-click menu, so you'll want to pick up some better KT weapons from the Exchange before this lockbox ends, but at least you'll be able to replace them as you find deals instead of having to do them all at once if the main thing you're after is looks.
sto.gamepedia.com/Kelvin_Timeline_Heavy_Command_Cruiser
sto.gamepedia.com/Kelvin_Timeline_Intel_Dreadnought_Cruiser
The primary differences are the specialization seatings.
Konnie gets Commander Engineering/Command. Vengeance gets Commander Engineering/Intel. If you want to follow the dps meta of the game, Vengeance is your choice. It's one of the best (if not the best) dps ships for feds. If you want the support/tanking role, that's what Command is.
Vengeance has Active Sensor Arrays (Gather Intel skill/Expose Vulnerability abilities) which is about exploiting your enemies.
Konnie has inspiration abilities which are about buffing you and your whole team.
Vengeance has the Broadside Emitter Arrays console. It gives a passive +3 current and maximum weapon power, +12% power recharge speed for captain abilities, and does the broadside attack that you saw in the movie Into Darkness.
Konnie has the Auxiliary Ejection Assembly console. It gives +3 current and maximum auxiliary power, +17.8% bonus exotic damage, and launches 4 warp cores behind you and explodes (like in the finale of 09) while giving you massive movement boost.
Vengeance has the Target Rich Environment trait which essentially gives you massive (massive because it stacks) damage boost while FAW is being used.
Konnie has the Down But Not Out trait. It gives you more subsystem power the lower your hull is. I can see this being useful for tacs that want to combo it with Go Down Fighting.
Again, all of this info and more is in the links provided.
If picking solely based on aesthetics is not what you're doing, then pick what you want to do. Vengeance does what it was designed to do. Fight and kill everything. Konnie is a great support/tanking cruiser. I'm not saying that you can't do good dps in a Konnie, just that a player has the potential to do so much more in a Vengeance.
Every lockbox and lobi ship is NOT an account unlock. They are character bound the moment you open one. Discharging one means its gone forever and you'll have to acquire another one if you want to fly it again.
Edit: I think I may have misunderstood. If you're asking if Vengeance will stay in the lobi store permanently, then yes. All lobi ships never get taken out of the lobi store.
It is when it's new. As @tom61sto already stated, the new infinity lockbox made high end items much easier to get. Stuff that used to cost a lot don't anymore with this new box. Once everything from the Kelvin lockbox gets rolled into the next infinity lockbox, the prices will go down considerably than what they are now. Items that are still Kelvin themed and NOT from the lockbox (e.g. the lobi store) will not go down in price. This is because lobi ships are indexed to key prices. You won't see the price of a Vengeance change much if keys stay steady in what they currently cost. However, @tom61sto is right. They tend to slowly rise after a while, especially if they're good and sell like hotcakes.
Of course, the infinity lockbox is still subject to change. For all we know, Cryptic might not bring it back and go back to using the old method of releasing old lockboxes individually without offering any choice. I don't think that's likely though. I think the infinity lockbox was too successful to not bring back.
No ship comes with VR quality weapons unless the weapon is special, like quad cannons or the wide arc quantum torp. Both ships come with common white Mk X arrays and common white Mk X torps that are not upgradable. See the links above that I previously posted. The Kelvin ship weapons aren't too costly on the exchange right now. You should be fine, unless you want to min-max and buy ones with good mods.
Hope this helped.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Congrats and enjoy it. She's a fun ship to fly. I own both and find myself constantly switching between the two.
Incorrect. You should equip some +30 SarcasmGen consoles, it'll improve your game.
The Constitution IS the best Fed cruiser to tank in, due to its BOFF seating, suite of all four cruiser commands, inspiration abilities, and the 4 piece Alternate Timeline console set, especially if you're an engineer.
Of course, no one plays engineer or tanks, as it's generally a redundant role in the meta. But everyone likes DPS, so adding a caveat about the Connie being better for a certain style is quite necessary. Otherwise, the 30 second ISA crowd will cry if they get a Connie over the Vengeance from your recommendation. Using the 3 piece Tholian console set, and using the commander slot for science, I do far more DPS in my decked-out Recluse than in my Vengeance, and in a much more fun and team contributing way, which is why I personally fly the Vengeance so seldom. It's kind of boring really. Sitting on top of the Enterprise J by myself in the Connie in Advanced and Elite Procyon V while tanking the Annorax and dozen plus Na'kuhl, Krenim, and Sphere Builder ships and laughing off their damage while you steadily kill them and the rest of the team closes portals is much more fun, for me.
Personally, I prefer the Vengeance, the Kelvin Connie just does nothing for me. Yes, the Vengeance is set up to be a better damage dealer, and yes.. that's the primary focus in STO group play rather anyone likes it or not. If people want to think the Vengeance can't tank.. great.. go ahead and think that.
They're both great ships, you'll likely be very happy with either one. I personally find the Vengeance superior because I can pretty much wipe out everything on the screen before they even know I'm there. I don't have to tank when my enemy is dead, but if it comes down to it, I can do that too. If you're playing a Fed and looking at Lockbox/Lobi ships both the Kelvin ships are among the most desired.
There is no wrong answer, only your personal preference.
Weak insults aside...my assertion is Incorrect based on what exactly? You're own little story about tanking with a Kevlin Constitution? I could post a story about tanking in a shuttlecraft if I wanted, but that doesn't dismiss anything I wrote. Admittedly, I left it short on details, but I'll dive into it now since you want to be proven wrong.
Look at both ships objectively.
Kelvin Dreadnought Cruiser
Hull:45,600 at level 40, 52,440 at level 50, 60,800 at level 60
Shield Modifier:1.15
Weapons:Fore 5 Aft 3
Can equip dual cannons.
Bridge Officers:Lieutenant Commander Tactical Commander Engineering-Intelligence Ensign Science Lieutenant Universal-Temporal Operative Lieutenant Commander Universal
Device Slots:4
Consoles: Tac Console (4) Eng Console (5) Sci Console (2)
Turn Rate:7
Impulse Modifier:0.18
Inertia rating:40
Hangar
Kelvin Command Cruiser
Hull:43,500 at level 40, 50,025 at level 50, 58,000 at level 60
Shield Modifier:1.1
Weapons:Fore 4 Aft 4
Bridge Officers:Lieutenant Commander Tactical Ensign Engineering Commander Engineering-Command Lieutenant Science-Temporal Operative Lieutenant Commander Universal
Device Slots:4
Consoles: Tac Console (4) End Console (4) Sci Console (3)
Turn Rate:8
Impulse Modifier:0.15
Inertia rating:40
The Dreadnought cruiser has a higher hull, higher shield modifier, a 5/3 weapon set up (which is superior to 4/4), higher impulse modifier, a hangar, and access to intelligence abilities (which are, in general, superior to command). The Command cruiser has a slightly better console layout (3 sci is better then 2) and a higher turn rate (8 vs 7)
Your argument about the command cruiser being a better tank is simply not true. The Dreadnought as I already stated has a higher hull and shield modifier so is naturally tankier in both respects. Both ships possess Cmd Engineering stations and LtCmd Universals. If you can't make the dreadnought as tanky as a Command Cruiser then you don't know how to build a ship.
I'm not going to get too much into the argument, but I'll just say that I agree completely with all of this.
The notion that the Connie is somehow a superior 'tank' is a little silly. Honestly, the biggest appeal of the Kelvin Connie is it's appearance (for those that find it desirable.) The ship really is just a slightly buffed Presido, it's nothing all that special.
Connie ship mastery package includes Absorptive Hull Plating:+25 physical & kinetic resists. Vengeance lacks this.
Connie has Shield Frequency Modulation: PBAOE Shield Regen and Hardness, affects Friend and Self (20 max). +10% damage reduction to Shields for yourself and nearby allies, +10% Shield Regeneration for yourself and nearby allies. Vengeance lacks this.
Connie can use Command BOFF power Suppression Barrage III: 30 sec: Enhance your weapons to Suppress foes: -50% Outgoing Damage, -66.7 Flight Speed, -66.7 Turn Rate, -50% Accuracy. Vengeance cannot.
Inspiration abilities are superior for tanking, and helping a team in general.
My statement of the Connie being a superior tank is objectively correct. Secondly, I didn't state there was any difficulty in tanking with a Vengeance, it is however objectively inferior in that role. Your sarcasm, knowledge, and even reading comprehension is weak.
Ship preference is subjective based on your preferred playstyle. I'm not certain what personal insecurities you have that drive you to be offended or bothered that some who own both (like myself) prefer the Constitution for its objectively superior performance in a tanking role. Maybe you should follow William Shatner's advice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUL7q8eyig8
His argument overlooks factors I've mentioned above that definitely tip the scales in favor of the Constitution for tanking.
I agree that the Connie is nothing special if you don't want to tank, as most don't. I wouldn't recommend it to most players on that basis. I own the Command Cruiser 3 pack as well, and the Connie is definitely better than the Presidio. The Presidio lacks the universal Lt. Commander slot the Connie has, and only has 2 cruiser commands. The lack of the Weapon System Efficiency command is a very serious weakness for that ship.
More insults, but with a cute video this time? You're exactly the player I mentioned in my first post. The one that feels all warm and fuzzy inside and is now apparently upset by the perceived dis of his "favorite" ship. So much so that you felt the need to defend it and also attack me personally... not once but twice. I get it. You feel like I have insulted you personally by dismissing the JJ-prize as inferior. You get a good feeling flying the ship and like looking at it as you play. There isn't anything wrong with that, but in the OP's case he wanted to know which ship is better overall. The OP didn't have the same emotional attachment you clearly have for the JJ-prize. Even in the scenario you so proudly shared earlier. -you in your JJ-prise, tanking above the Enterprise J, all by yourself with no support. A Vengeance could do the same thing and at the same time it would be doing more damage. If this game was a more traditional mmo with dedicated (dps, tank, healer) then I might concede to you that the Kelvin Timeline Command Cruiser would make a slightly better tank, but that's not how this game works and lets be real here the Vengeance has more then enough tanking ability to handle anything in this game. The Vengeance is just overall the better ship. You know it as well as you avoided addressing anything from my original post about the advantages of the Vengeance over the JJ-prize. No mention of the hangar (which could equip Shield Repair Units since your so obsessed with tanking)? No mention of the superior weapon layout that gives the vengeance the flexibility to use dual beam banks optimally?
The same might not be said about the the Konnie vs. a Presidio. Both their traits are good, but I favor Presidio's more. However, the OP has stated... Someone who says they "love" the look of Kelvin ships, exclusively flew the Aventine for so long and is now (coincidentally) considering flying a different ship now that the Kelvin ships are finally out, it's safe to assume this person obviously has aesthetics as at least somewhat of a selling point otherwise this thread would also include "what are other cheaper alternatives from the C-store?"
For anyone that's thinking that I'm trying to sell the Konnie as a godlike ship, I'm not. I agree with @vampeiyre. I also wouldn't recommend the Konnie as a "must have" ship, but I also wouldn't call it subpar by any means. I was simply comparing the differences between Vengeance and Konnie for the OP. I'm not gonna be that guy that tells anyone how they should play the game. (Unless they set up their weapons to look like the default setup of a C-store ship *shudders*)
You're mistaken, and projecting your insecure emotional mindset onto me. I merely went out of my way to point out your factually incorrect statements because you were being a TRIBBLE, which I notice you seem to do often by default. I only do so as a response to an attack, or to put ignorant children such as you in their place, as it's a valuable public service. So, you started with the ad hominem attacks, I merely returned the favor.
Now you're moving the goal posts, another fallacy that further weakens your non-argument. The KTHCC is objectively a better tank, not debatable. Changing the subject to the redundancy of tanking and engineers is a doubly laughable strategy as I myself stated that condition of the meta game in every post I've made offering advice on these ships, specifically so no one would be tempted to get a Connie for sheer nostalgia or cosmetic appeal. You're winning at losing sir.
Both ships are the best at their roles. That's why I have both. Neither is better than the other in absolute terms, as they both have different purposes. I like to tank in MMO games like this, so I fly the Connie more than the Vengeance solo.
I do a lot of que PUGs, and since most people will fly DPS ships, I fly either the Connie or Recluse to a fill a void a team would be more likely to have. Since the T6 Paradox Temporal Dreadnought is super popular for control/GW spam, I pretty much hang in the Connie by default these days as I know pretty much no one else will be in a command cruiser to reset BOFF powers with the Battle Preparation inspiration ability, neuter enemy damage with Suppression Barrage III, or neuter enemy defense via aggro control and Attack Pattern Delta. So, Connie is more useful as a team player ship, as I can always rely on at least one Vengeance and/or Scimitar or something similar in any que.
A hangar has no bearing on tanking, as an engineer I'd never need to waste a pet for a repair drone. Hangars are superior for DPS or debuffing, so Elite Kelvin Assault Drones for my Vengeance, Elite Mesh Weavers for my Recluse. This is another red herring/non-point on your part.
The superior turn rate of the KT Connie actually gives it the advantage of optimal DBB use. Again, not sure you actually put thought into this statement either.
No factual inaccuracies or inconsistencies on my part. Please, dance for me more fool, you're a great entertainer.
I agree on the Arbiter/Eclipse thing. The Vengeance is a powerhouse, but the Arbiter is every bit as good and in some cases even better. The Eclipse is also very powerful, right on par with the Vengeance.
Honestly, I totally disagree on the trait thing though. I have the Vengeance, and I don't slot 'Target Rich Environment,' it's really not that great. It's all cat 1 bonus, it's basically about as effective as one tac console that's not always active. I mean, it's not BAD, if you have nothing else to go there, it's fine.. but Target Rich Environment loses to many other better traits. I have the maximum number of available starship traits, and I still don't use it. If you compare the Arbiter trait to the Vengance, the Arbiter wins by a mile. I actually even prefer Battle Ready from the Eclipse over Target Rich Environment. Battle Ready is a pretty nice Trait, especially on threat ships using Reciprocity.
Oh wow. Did a quick search on it. You're right. I did not realize this.