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STILL no T6 carrier? Seriously?

The last time I seriously played the game, I had just upgraded my Fleet Vo'Quv to a T5-U, figuring I'd buy the T6 version whenever it came out. And I kept checking back since then. And some months ago, I figured I'd take a long break and play some of those other MMO's out there.

Today I decided to come back and try again since surely they've released some new ships by now, and here I've got some money burning a hole in my pocket... and nope. Still no T6 carrier. Seriously?

I'd seen some "KDF is dead" threads in the past, but didn't take them too seriously. Are you telling me they were all right?

Guess Cryptic wants me to use my money for the 800 pound gorilla's new expansion instead?
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Comments

  • misterferengi#8959 misterferengi Member Posts: 486 Arc User
    The Myth is KDF doesn't sell and make Cryptic money. But ! if you have little content to market and promote then of course you won't sell much and make money.

    Tier 6 Carrier isn't the only thing missing from the KDF. Tier 6 Science ships are missing as well (Forget lockbox/lobi and event ships i don't count them as they are special, exclusive items).

    Romulans also suffer.

    When you create 2 additional factions for you're customer base to play, you also create an expectation that those factions would have equal parity with the other faction, and that the time invested in creating a Rom or KDF would be as rewarding as creating a Fed.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    It's no myth. There are much fewer KDF players than Fed, so it's inevitable that KDF-locked things sell less.

    There will only be equality if the restrictions are removed and everyone allowed to buy all things regardless of faction.
  • misterferengi#8959 misterferengi Member Posts: 486 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    There will only be equality if the restrictions are removed and everyone allowed to buy all things regardless of faction.

    but i want to play KDF, the Federation is nothing but a Homosapiens only club, We need breathing room lol
  • mirai222mirai222 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    I lucked out with the Breen ships from the past two Winter events. My KDF characters were hurting for T6 ships. The carrier works great for my science Orion, and the dreadnought is perfect for my engineer Joined Trill. But those ships aren't available for people who missed those events.
  • fruitvendor12fruitvendor12 Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    There will only be equality if the restrictions are removed and everyone allowed to buy all things regardless of faction.

    but i want to play KDF, the Federation is nothing but a Homosapiens only club, We need breathing room lol
    Lebensraum!

    Didn't work out for Schicklgruber. Not working out so well for Putin. Good thing this is just a game. ;)

  • litchy74litchy74 Member Posts: 417 Arc User
    If you build it they will come....
    Where ever you go, there you are.......

    Join The Space Invaders,..... Federation and KDF fleets.
  • fruitvendor12fruitvendor12 Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    litchy74 wrote: »
    If you build it they will come....
    Nah that's a nice movie. The world is full of failed small businesses that took that thought seriously. ;)

  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    This is one reason why I only have 2 KDF characters.
    Enterprise%20C_zpsrdrf3v8d.jpg

    USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
    Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
  • alexhurlbutalexhurlbut Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's no myth. There are much fewer KDF players than Fed, so it's inevitable that KDF-locked things sell less.
    And this is a self-perpetuating loop; KDF content sell less so Devs develop less KDF content and KDF players buy less KDF content or give up KDF content altogether so Bigwigs at Cryptics say spend less time on developing KDF content because it doesn't sell.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    T6 Klingon carrier? What a ridiculous notion! The Klingons don't need more ships! Let them die in peace!
    Tza0PEl.png
  • jade1280jade1280 Member Posts: 868 Arc User
    TRIBBLE none the less
    I want that carrier for my KDF character.
  • fruitvendor12fruitvendor12 Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    And this is a self-perpetuating loop;
    Content is something most players blow through. "Why are they asking me all these questions, ZERG" If you're looking for KDF storyline, look on Foundry. There really is some great stuff there.

  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    The Jupiter was totally a missed opportunity. Even if there had been no contest for the Romulan and Klingon faction ships, they should brought at least the Vo'Quv to Tier 6. A shame. I mean, sure, if they didn't have the manpower to do another ship in the time it might not hav been feasible, but it still feels like suboptimal planning for this. (I imagine the ship artists have been very busy with all the TOS era ships, both NPC and the AOY ship pack, in the past year).
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's no myth. There are much fewer KDF players than Fed, so it's inevitable that KDF-locked things sell less.
    And this is a self-perpetuating loop; KDF content sell less so Devs develop less KDF content and KDF players buy less KDF content or give up KDF content altogether so Bigwigs at Cryptics say spend less time on developing KDF content because it doesn't sell.

    True. But Star Trek is a Federation focused show. There will always be a much larger share playing Feds than Klingon. Just like in a Star Wars game there would always be a larger share playing Jedi. The Devs have made their observations in the past. When the Klingon faction was all shiny and new they still couldn't convince enough players to switch to that faction. People said that's because you have to level up a Fed char first before being able to play as a Klingon. But when they added a Klingon tutorial and made it possible to start a Klingon char from lvl 1 the numbers didn't change that much either. This time players blamed the significant smaller amount of ships and costumes options for that faction.

    Nobody can say Cryptic didn't try. But even under the best circumstances the share of Klingon players wouldn't exceed 20%.

    They could invest 100 dev hours into a new Fed ship and sell it 1000 times or they could invest the same amount into making a Klingon ship and sell it 100 times. What would you do?
  • thelunarboythelunarboy Member Posts: 412 Arc User
    Perhaps one way to inject life into the Klingon/Romulan ship development is to reserve competitions like "design the Enterprise/Jupiter" (yes, I know they were handled differently) largely for those factions. If the developers are churning out Starfleet ships and the player base is that slanted towards Fed... then the likelihood is that whatever gets knocked out for the Fed faction will sell itself. If KDF/RR have more input from the player base then it might get people from outside those factions to contribute to their development and because they have a sense of ownership in the project, they might get more on board with investing time in the other factions to get a chance at playing with the ship they helped create.
  • qqafgqegqe4agqqafgqegqe4ag Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    Guess that answers my question pretty decisively.
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    They don't have the resources to come out with KDF and Romulan content at the same quantity as Federation. They have to pick and choose their spots. If you're incredulous that they haven't come out with a T6 Carrier for KDF and Romulan...they may yet come out with it...it will just take them time because they're strapped. If you think no T6 Carrier is outrageous, they haven't come out with a T6 Vor'cha yet either...and that's a battlecruiser...and supposedly battlecruisers sell! But I think it's the fact that they're in the 50th anniversary year and had to pour resources into that. Again, I think in time, you will eventually see it. Will just take time.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • claudiusdkclaudiusdk Member Posts: 561 Arc User
    Its an evil circle indeed...
    Players don't wanna play cause of lack of content.
    And the devs don't wanna make content cause of the lack of players.

    Ive been around since closed beta. And played KDF since the game went live.
    And in terms of mission and playable stuff, they are matched with the federation pretty neatly right now.
    But it wasn't always like this. When the game first came out we only had a handful of mission, and then you had to either pvp to level up, or play 2-3 repeatable missions that barely rewarded anything.
    I noticed a lot of people still think the KDF is like that in terms of missions. While others just complain about everything being too dark.

    In terms of ships however. The KDF have barely got the same variations and options. Dispite the KDF got some of the best looking ships. :wink:
    We just barely gotten a T6 Bird of Prey raider ship option not long ago. (Bird of Prey being one of the more iconic ships of the Klingons in the shows.)
    Still no T6 Carrier to the KDF, dispite Carrier ships started out as something unique to the KDF together with the Raiders when the game came out.
    And of the alien(gorn, orion, nausicaan) allies of the KDF, we also just barely gotten a Nausicaan T6.

    If only the devs could throw us a bone they are working on something.
    "Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons."
    Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
    Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
  • qqafgqegqe4agqqafgqegqe4ag Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    They don't have the resources to come out with KDF and Romulan content at the same quantity as Federation. They have to pick and choose their spots. If you're incredulous that they haven't come out with a T6 Carrier for KDF and Romulan...they may yet come out with it...it will just take them time because they're strapped. If you think no T6 Carrier is outrageous, they haven't come out with a T6 Vor'cha yet either...and that's a battlecruiser...and supposedly battlecruisers sell! But I think it's the fact that they're in the 50th anniversary year and had to pour resources into that. Again, I think in time, you will eventually see it. Will just take time.

    Give them more time? You yanking my chain here, or what?
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    They don't have the resources to come out with KDF and Romulan content at the same quantity as Federation. They have to pick and choose their spots. If you're incredulous that they haven't come out with a T6 Carrier for KDF and Romulan...they may yet come out with it...it will just take them time because they're strapped. If you think no T6 Carrier is outrageous, they haven't come out with a T6 Vor'cha yet either...and that's a battlecruiser...and supposedly battlecruisers sell! But I think it's the fact that they're in the 50th anniversary year and had to pour resources into that. Again, I think in time, you will eventually see it. Will just take time.

    Give them more time? You yanking my chain here, or what?

    Think about it...eventually this 50 Year Anniversary will come to an end...and then what? Then they're going to have to get back to business as usual, which of course is...releasing new ships. Just my opinion of course, but, I think, eventually they'll have to get back to it.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




  • hanover2hanover2 Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    A warrior does not sit idly, waiting to be deemed worthy of attention. If you want your faction to receive more attention, lead the charge at attracting that attention.
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    hanover2 wrote: »
    A warrior does not sit idly, waiting to be deemed worthy of attention. If you want your faction to receive more attention, lead the charge at attracting that attention.

    KDF NPC Drone: "Qa'pla mighty Klingon Warrior! All of Qo'nos stands in awe of the glory you gained wiping the bum of every Talaxian on that station! Come! Let us drink Mountain Dew: Code Red and sing the praises of Call of Duty to celebrate!"

    KDF Player: "First of all, I'm a Ferasan. and Second of all... WTF?!"

    The KDF in it's current state is a hard sell to most players. I guess we could just say "Ignore the dialogue and lack of story! Play KDF for the amazing ship selection and customization options!". Oh, wait...
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    It's no myth. There are much fewer KDF players than Fed, so it's inevitable that KDF-locked things sell less.
    And this is a self-perpetuating loop; KDF content sell less so Devs develop less KDF content and KDF players buy less KDF content or give up KDF content altogether so Bigwigs at Cryptics say spend less time on developing KDF content because it doesn't sell.

    Exactly. And the way to fix that is to remove restrictions. If they would just sell everything to everyone it wouldn't matter how the players are distributed anymore and the loop would be broken.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    I hope they keep it this way. So we can convince the RR and KDF players to join the Federation. Not because we have cookies, but because we have carriers :)
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    I think the Klingon and RR fans will just have to face it (still haven't done that? Seriously?). You don't get less ships because it's some circular logic, you get less ships because Klingons and Romulans are less interesting than those that are supposed to be the good guys and who were the centre of literally every television series: the Federation.

    I'm willing to bet that, even if all factions received the same amount of Dev time, customisation and dialogue options and resources, the majority of the players would still be playing as a Federation officer. So yes, it may be circular logic that they don't get much attention and therefore are played less than what could potentially be the case, but that doesn't mean that the logic itself is flawed or not based on reasonable assumptions: I seriously doubt that, even with serious (and equal) investments (from the start), the KDF and RR factions would be (/ have been) as attractive as the Federation faction.


    Edit: basically, one can argue that the factions are not popular enough because they don't get enough attention from Cryptic, which is then used as an excuse to not give them that attention, and which is thus circular reasoning.
    But then you are overlooking the fact that these factions simply have much less potential. They never were the central faction of the franchise, the Federation was.
    Even if they could be made a bit more popular by giving all factions 1/3 of the resources and Dev time, they would likely never be played as much as the Federation. So, you might postpone the circular logic for a while, but eventually you'd have to admit that the reduced attention those other factions get, does make sense from a business perspective. The circular logic may be circular logic, that doesn't mean that it's only circular logic: there is a very fundamental issue and reason why this loop came into existence and it's that the factions and species themselves simply aren't attractive to most players.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    I think the Klingon and RR fans will just have to face it (still haven't done that? Seriously?). You don't get less ships because it's some circular logic, you get less ships because Klingons and Romulans are less interesting than those that are supposed to be the good guys and who were the centre of literally every television series: the Federation.

    I'm willing to bet that, even if all factions received the same amount of Dev time, customisation and dialogue options and resources, the majority of the players would still be playing as a Federation officer. So yes, it may be circular logic that they don't get much attention and therefore are played less than what could potentially be the case, but that doesn't mean that the logic itself is flawed or not based on reasonable assumptions: I seriously doubt that, even with serious (and equal) investments (from the start), the KDF and RR factions would be (/ have been) as attractive as the Federation faction.
    Of course. That's why the whole faction restriction thing was doomed from the start. There is never going to be numerical equality no matter what. Because the Federation is the protagonist of the entire franchise, there will always be more people familiar with and interested in it. Nothing can be done about that.

    Which is why bringing the factions together into a single market by removing restrictions is the only hope of equality.

    It's unfortunate that some KDF fans (and it is always KDF fans) would rather see their content not be developed at all, than developed as cross-faction available.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Oh and as for that last sentence: we see the same within the Federation faction.

    The majority of those playing Federation, are playing an human character. That's not because they get so much more dev time or resources than Vulcans or Andorians, it's because they were on screen so much and because they are the easiest to identify with.

    So it's really just complaining about circular logic while there is enough proof that the factions, like specific species within a faction, simply have much less potential. The Klingons and RR get enough attention as is warranted. Just like the Vulcans or Andorians.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    risian4 wrote: »
    I think the Klingon and RR fans will just have to face it (still haven't done that? Seriously?). You don't get less ships because it's some circular logic, you get less ships because Klingons and Romulans are less interesting than those that are supposed to be the good guys and who were the centre of literally every television series: the Federation.

    I'm willing to bet that, even if all factions received the same amount of Dev time, customisation and dialogue options and resources, the majority of the players would still be playing as a Federation officer. So yes, it may be circular logic that they don't get much attention and therefore are played less than what could potentially be the case, but that doesn't mean that the logic itself is flawed or not based on reasonable assumptions: I seriously doubt that, even with serious (and equal) investments (from the start), the KDF and RR factions would be (/ have been) as attractive as the Federation faction.
    Of course. That's why the whole faction restriction thing was doomed from the start. There is never going to be numerical equality no matter what. Because the Federation is the protagonist of the entire franchise, there will always be more people familiar with and interested in it. Nothing can be done about that.

    Which is why bringing the factions together into a single market by removing restrictions is the only hope of equality.

    It's unfortunate that some KDF fans (and it is always KDF fans) would rather see their content not be developed at all, than developed as cross-faction available.

    It would also make it easier for KDF and FED fleets (I know there are many allied fleets out there with players from one, joining the other) to combine their resources.

    I think you're right.
  • spacebaronlinespacebaronline Member Posts: 1,103 Arc User
    I have 10 KDF toons. Stopped leveling them at 50. Have not played them for over a year. So yeah KDF is dead for me. Sad. All hail the mighty Federation!! :'(
  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    This thread started out as a cry for a KDF and Romulan specific T6 Carrier. Just trying to pull it back on line here. I'm seeing lots of posts about faction specific content needing to go by the way side. Storylines can blend, sure, but that can't include ships. They still have to create KDF and Romulan ships. Is anyone here arguing that KDF and Romulan factions should start using Federation ships? At that point, why have the separate factions? There has to be a unique identity for those factions from a ship and uniform perspective. Common storylines and all being on the same side in a conflict...ok...no problem. I understand why they would do that...but ships? All of the races are too technologically advanced to start using the other faction's designs.
    klingon-bridge.jpg




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