It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
You're thinking with the 'ape brain', there, as Drexler says many times.
I personally love it. It looks like something made by a very, very advanced, civilized society. I can see the thing being grown or woven, or manifested, not patched together by sweaty guys with welders like they did with the JJ prise (Which I think THAT is ugly as sin). Because something LOOKS flimsy, does not mean it is. The TOS constitution, the D7, and so on are good examples.
Here's a the Trek Yards video on the J.
And I love Doug's way of thinking.
It's ugly. Looks like it holds two decks only or something. Not my cup of tea. Prefer the Oddy. Although in the show isn't the saucer supposed to have a diameter of like a mile or something? It's supposed to actually be huge no?
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
These are the voyagers of the U.S.S. Enterprise J. Her continuing mission; to seek out new life and new civilisations. to boldly go where no pancake has gone before!
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
Yeah, or maybe a wizard did it?
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. The Enterprise J is sufficiently advanced.
If it was sufficiently advanced, it wouldn't have nacelles at all. See 29th/31st century advanced.
It still looks implausible.
I think that's the key feature of the ship. It makes no sense to us.
Though, realistically... The flimsy Pylons were in Star Trek since TOS. We just got used to them being this flimsy.
The more I see the Enterprise J,the more I like the idea of "Bluetooth" connected Warp Nacelles that have no pylon at.
But so far, only the Iconians seem to make such ships.
Yeah, those Iconian designs look awesome. I'm usually not a fan of vertical ships but they pull it off well. Might look even better if the disconnected parts would "float" a bit instead of staying rigidly in place.
Doug's design is actually quite well thought out, and very well designed. But keep in mind, the original was made in a couple of hours, because the producers demanded it on short notice.
The design is admittedly very divisive. People seem to either love it or hate it.
But
It grows on you. When I started modeling it, I had enough people stop by my desk to tell me they hated the design, that I put a sign on the back of my chair that said, "I know you don't like the design, I don't care, I still have to build it."
However, after a few weeks of seeing it in team meetings, and walking past my desk, not only did people shut up about not liking it, but many who actively disliked it to start with, liked it quite a bit now.
I'm in that camp too. I didn't hate it, but it was strange for an Enterprise. But after building it, I really do believe it's a brilliant bit of design.
Give it time, and don't hate it just because that's what everyone else is saying.
Indeed, some structural attachment would complete the design. I'm really not trying to hate on it, I actually like it's flatness and the textures of the hull. It's very 31st century.
Each generation (us folks) have different idea's of what the future would look like. It's interesting how it ended up.
Indeed, some structural attachment would complete the design. I'm really not trying to hate on it, I actually like it's flatness and the textures of the hull. It's very 31st century.
Each generation (us folks) have different idea's of what the future would look like. It's interesting how it ended up.
Simple solution is to have the connection point a rather graceful curve along the top of the nacelle there to the pylon.. keeping in with the overall lines of the ship itself.
My problem with the J is the saucer section- it's completely at odds with the streamlined look of the rest of the ship (and other Enterprises, specifically the E). Seriously, that saucer does not belong with the rest of the ship. IMO a retcon is in order!
It would have to be so; cause it's not got the space obviously. But the J's space technology is obviously not as advanced as the Timelords' tech, or it wouldn't look like a deflated pancake.
Made it tiny? Howso? It is the length Doug Drexler (Designer of it) says it is.
I'm fine w/ the size the designer says it is. Kinda like the Aquatic carrier is small, but it's large vs the NX-01 (only size scale we had) but not the space whales STO has generated recently.
Indeed, some structural attachment would complete the design. I'm really not trying to hate on it, I actually like it's flatness and the textures of the hull. It's very 31st century.
Each generation (us folks) have different idea's of what the future would look like. It's interesting how it ended up.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
Yeah, or maybe a wizard did it?
It still looks implausible.
Right, which was the entire PURPOSE of the design. Go ask Doug. He wanted to push the boundaries of what you felt was believable. The same way the original 1701 did with everyone who came from watching Flash Gordon and Lost in Space.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
Yeah, or maybe a wizard did it?
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. The Enterprise J is sufficiently advanced.
If it was sufficiently advanced, it wouldn't have nacelles at all. See 29th/31st century advanced.
It still looks implausible.
I think that's the key feature of the ship. It makes no sense to us.
Though, realistically... The flimsy Pylons were in Star Trek since TOS. We just got used to them being this flimsy.
The more I see the Enterprise J,the more I like the idea of "Bluetooth" connected Warp Nacelles that have no pylon at.
But so far, only the Iconians seem to make such ships.
Yeah, those Iconian designs look awesome. I'm usually not a fan of vertical ships but they pull it off well. Might look even better if the disconnected parts would "float" a bit instead of staying rigidly in place.
Ugh. I hate when future, unnecessarily floating things, float around.
"Here's our brand new, state of the art, hovering hospital gurney! Oh yeah, it bobs around a bit, so patients will lose their lunches. . . but it floats!"
Indeed, some structural attachment would complete the design. I'm really not trying to hate on it, I actually like it's flatness and the textures of the hull. It's very 31st century.
Each generation (us folks) have different idea's of what the future would look like. It's interesting how it ended up.
Simple solution is to have the connection point a rather graceful curve along the top of the nacelle there to the pylon.. keeping in with the overall lines of the ship itself.
And that's what pretty much every fan who's modeled the J has done.
My problem with the J is the saucer section- it's completely at odds with the streamlined look of the rest of the ship (and other Enterprises, specifically the E). Seriously, that saucer does not belong with the rest of the ship. IMO a retcon is in order!
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
Yeah, or maybe a wizard did it?
It still looks implausible.
Right, which was the entire PURPOSE of the design. Go ask Doug. He wanted to push the boundaries of what you felt was believable. The same way the original 1701 did with everyone who came from watching Flash Gordon and Lost in Space.
It looks like someone dropped an anvil on a cartoon character, yes.
But that's not what makes it look bad. It's those skinny nacelles attached by those long narrow pylons that give it an incredibly twiggy appearance.
I mean, nacelle pylons on the average starfleet ship tend to look kinda flimsy, but the E-J nacelles...no, just no. It's impossible to take seriously from a structural engineering point of view.
Remember that the nacelles do not actually provide physical propulsion in and of themselves. They generate the warp field, which is then propelled forward with the ship inside. So they don't actually need to be attached to the hull in an overly strong manner, since they don't actually put undue stresses on the ship. The impulse engines are the things that need to be firmly attached, since they are basically giant fusion reactors that vent plasma (or whatever, it's never clear what they expel) into space for propulsion.
In a civilian ship, maybe. In a ship that's regularly shot at, the design needs to account for more than just engine power.
Regularly shot at with anti-matter torpedoes and weird energy beams that we couldn't explain with our current understanding of science.
Traditional "structural integrity" is probably a completely meaningless thing in such a world. For all we know, the nacelle pylons can be allowed to be so thin because they are made of solid neutronium, where as the other parts of ship are using some advanced Duranium/Tritanium/Osfuscatium alloy that's not as tough and so must be thicker. (But at least it can be replicated and is thus an easy accessible commodity, compared to Neutronium, which requires mining operations on Neutron Stars, which we also have no idea how they'd pull that off.) Or the only reason these ships can survive multiple direct anti-matter torpedo hits is because they are reinforced by some of those magic force fields, and the only purpose of the hull is so that the ship isn't transparent and to help the construction crews know where to put all those structural integrity field generators. Basically, the hull is just a 1:1 scale blueprint.
Yeah, or maybe a wizard did it?
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. The Enterprise J is sufficiently advanced.
If it was sufficiently advanced, it wouldn't have nacelles at all. See 29th/31st century advanced.
It still looks implausible.
I think that's the key feature of the ship. It makes no sense to us.
Though, realistically... The flimsy Pylons were in Star Trek since TOS. We just got used to them being this flimsy.
The more I see the Enterprise J,the more I like the idea of "Bluetooth" connected Warp Nacelles that have no pylon at.
But so far, only the Iconians seem to make such ships.
Yeah, those Iconian designs look awesome. I'm usually not a fan of vertical ships but they pull it off well. Might look even better if the disconnected parts would "float" a bit instead of staying rigidly in place.
Ugh. I hate when future, unnecessarily floating things, float around.
"Here's our brand new, state of the art, hovering hospital gurney! Oh yeah, it bobs around a bit, so patients will lose their lunches. . . but it floats!"
But the bobbing around is what shows the audience that the future floaty hospital gurney is really a future floaty hospital gurney and not just a regular old hospital gurney with the wheels photoshopped out.
I think we're all forgetting that apart from trying to do the canon design justice, it's all moot anyway. The technology of the time is such that structural integrity fields have to be so advanced that they can do whatever they want without worrying about the integrity of the overall design.
Ugh. I hate when future, unnecessarily floating things, float around.
"Here's our brand new, state of the art, hovering hospital gurney! Oh yeah, it bobs around a bit, so patients will lose their lunches. . . but it floats!"
I dunno... TNG had anti-grav cargo pallets, so anti-grav stretchers make sense.
I don't understand why people like the look of the Defiant either because it doesn't have much of a Starfleet design to it (if I recall correctly, it was actually concept art for another alien ship that was then modified to become the Defiant), but you know what? It is Starfleet and there are people who like the Defiant.
I think the Enterprise-J is unique and different, so I can't say I either like or dislike the design, as it wasn't really intended to be more than just an oddity of the franchise.
Comments
You're thinking with the 'ape brain', there, as Drexler says many times.
I personally love it. It looks like something made by a very, very advanced, civilized society. I can see the thing being grown or woven, or manifested, not patched together by sweaty guys with welders like they did with the JJ prise (Which I think THAT is ugly as sin). Because something LOOKS flimsy, does not mean it is. The TOS constitution, the D7, and so on are good examples.
Here's a the Trek Yards video on the J.
And I love Doug's way of thinking.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
These are the voyagers of the U.S.S. Enterprise J. Her continuing mission; to seek out new life and new civilisations. to boldly go where no pancake has gone before!
These are the voyages of the U.S.S. Pioneer...
Personally, I like the J. When will it be available in either a C-Store or lock box?
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
They might've got some of the Iconian ship designs and used them on the necelles. I'm also sure it's ment to travel through time.
mmm... well.. as i mentioned in a similar thread.
it's not so much the 'simplistic' look of the nacelles, it's their mounting on the pylons with me.
Each generation (us folks) have different idea's of what the future would look like. It's interesting how it ended up.
I LOL-ed.
It would have to be so; cause it's not got the space obviously. But the J's space technology is obviously not as advanced as the Timelords' tech, or it wouldn't look like a deflated pancake.
I agree, it's awful looking. I can't understand anyone thinking it's great ascetically.
Yeah, cause guys who do alot of roids look wonderful...
I'm fine w/ the size the designer says it is. Kinda like the Aquatic carrier is small, but it's large vs the NX-01 (only size scale we had) but not the space whales STO has generated recently.
My character Tsin'xing
Right, which was the entire PURPOSE of the design. Go ask Doug. He wanted to push the boundaries of what you felt was believable. The same way the original 1701 did with everyone who came from watching Flash Gordon and Lost in Space.
Ugh. I hate when future, unnecessarily floating things, float around.
"Here's our brand new, state of the art, hovering hospital gurney! Oh yeah, it bobs around a bit, so patients will lose their lunches. . . but it floats!"
And that's what pretty much every fan who's modeled the J has done.
http://orig08.deviantart.net/6f9a/f/2013/311/8/8/unknown_class_ortho___uss_enterprise_1701_j_by_unusualsuspex-d6tc6pt.jpg
https://heroesandaliens.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/enterprise-j.jpg
http://orig03.deviantart.net/5075/f/2009/070/a/e/enterprise_j_render_1_by_trekmodeler.jpg
http://theness.com/roguesgallery/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Enterprise-J.jpg
But that isn't how the original was built. And I try to make sure we stick to canon whenever we can.
In what way?
But the bobbing around is what shows the audience that the future floaty hospital gurney is really a future floaty hospital gurney and not just a regular old hospital gurney with the wheels photoshopped out.
It's definitely a CIA plot, they get their fingers into everything
My character Tsin'xing
I think the Enterprise-J is unique and different, so I can't say I either like or dislike the design, as it wasn't really intended to be more than just an oddity of the franchise.
My character Tsin'xing