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The Vengeance's trait and console box....why not make it available to everyone?

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  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    The most OP ship ever made in the history of the game doesn't interest you? Ok..........

    I dont really care for the ship becuase its a paper mache monster from the JJverse. its worth the trait and pretty much just that.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • cyphexthekingcyphextheking Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    Hi all, i also would like to get the box for the console and trait, because i also invested much in my other ships over the time, and yeah, i also dont want to fly the vengeance..

    Beside this, i wondering about the console´s ability.
    It offers something like "additional" beambanks for the sides, very nice.
    But which energy type they using? For example, if i fly antiproton, or like at the moment with disrupter.. Do this console shoot with the same type? Have your equiped tactical consoles any effect for the damage? OR.. is the console just giving Phaser-Damage, and for that just useful for phaser setup?
    2ntadi4o8mmx.png
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    Only a Federation player would call having exclusive access to the best ship in the game "unfair."

    Lol, not the best ship in the game.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    Only a Federation player would call having exclusive access to the best ship in the game "unfair."

    Lol, not the best ship in the game.

    Best ship in the game is the one you like best. Subjective to each player.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • cyphexthekingcyphextheking Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    gradii wrote: »
    Best ship in the game is the one you like best. Subjective to each player.

    In my case it´s the Tholian Tarantula Dreadnought, with disruptor "single" beams (also with the terran reputation beam and a coalition one) and with the "Fleet Elite Tholian Mesh Weaver" pets.

    Got the ship monday in a Infinity Box.

    Hehe. Doing around 130-150K in ISA as Fed-Engineer :)
    Really love the ship :) Woot :)

    2ntadi4o8mmx.png
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    In my case it´s the Tholian Tarantula Dreadnought, with disruptor "single" beams (also with the terran reputation beam and a coalition one) and with the "Fleet Elite Tholian Mesh Weaver" pets.
    Really love the ship :) Woot :)

    It IS a fun beast... but why not both? :wink:

  • cyphexthekingcyphextheking Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    What both? The Vengeance? naa, not mine.
    I even can say, i dont like the typical fed ship designs. the big circular saucers.
    doesn´t matter, wether the constitution, or galaxy, or nebula and else. i just dont like it.

    I prefer more the "slim" ones, like Voyager(intrepid)/Hestia(prometheus) or Odessey or "Fleet"Avenger.

    Further i like "exotic" designs like the wells or paradox, or aswell the krenim "annorax".
    even the Kumari was a beauty, or the Nakuhl ones.

    Hehe, and the Tarantula looks a bit like the annorax, i love the design :)

    But anyways, back to topic:

    Yes i would like an "any-faction-trait-box" with the vengeance trait and console, too..

    And still have my question about the console:
    Beside this, i wondering about the console´s ability.
    It offers something like "additional" beambanks for the sides, very nice.
    But which energy type they using? For example, if i fly antiproton, or like at the moment with disrupter.. Do this console shoot with the same type? Have your equiped tactical consoles any effect for the damage? OR.. is the console just giving Phaser-Damage, and for that just useful for phaser setup?

    2ntadi4o8mmx.png
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    The console deals phaser damage.

    As for the way it was made available: I'm surprised they put it and its (I assume) very wanted trait in the lobi store. Got the ship for my main because the trait seems very useful (yes, I switched to FAW a couple of days ago. Used cannons + an omni beam for overload before but that got boring so I wanted to try something new) and I still had nearly 800 lobi. I think I've opened about 30 boxes to get the remaining lobi, if the ship had been put in the box itself I probably wouldn't have gotten it.

    So, a good decision actually.
  • cyphexthekingcyphextheking Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    the topic was NOT to put the vengeance ship into the kelvin-lock-box.
    We discussed about the fact;

    as FED-TOON you need to "buy" the ENTIRE vengeance ship (with trait and console)
    for 900 lobis OR ~350 mio ec

    - WHILE -

    ROMs and KDF can get the cheaper box (just trait and console and NO ship)
    for just 450 Lobi or ~120 mio ec...

    *to explain it better: for roms and kdfs are a special box in the lobi store (just the trait and console, no ship)*


    And the wish of the topic creator and few others was just, to make this special box available ALSO for Fed-Toons..

    Again, as fed i have to buy full ship for 900 lobis, to get the trait and/or console
    as roms/kdfs just have to spent 450 lobi.. (for the trait and console)

    and yeah, me as a fed toon also wish to be able to buy just the box insteed the entire ship...
    2ntadi4o8mmx.png
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    Getting the ship just for the trait is a bad idea IMO. The Vengeance trait is Cat 1,making it slightly worse than an additional Tac console (much worse when compared to a locator).

    The amount of Lobi you'll be spending for that trait is better spent on other traits (like Supremacy or Invincible).

    The console has a nice captain power CD reduction, and the clicky is nice (though again, not game-changing good or bad).

    If you are getting the Vengeance, get it because you like the ship itself.

    That said, I don't think it's OP at all. Yes it can be powerful, but no more powerful than other ships (some from C-Store).

    To the OP, I sort of understand your point, but I also get Cryptic's reasoning behind it. I'd like for what you want to happen, happen. But I doubt that Cryptic would do something like that now or in the future since they'll earn less from that.
  • cyphexthekingcyphextheking Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    The thing is:

    Both - the special box AND the ship - are in the lobi store.

    But, some players have to buy full ship, whiles others just have to buy the box..

    If you look the reciprocity-trait, it comes for fed with phantom escort from c-store (zen-store), ok.
    and kdf or roms can get the trait from a lock box, ok...

    Or Kdf´s get the plasmonic leech with a c-store ship, while roms /FEDs get it from a lock-box. Ok


    Thats different to this case here, because, this vengeance ship and the trait/console-box are BOTH in lobi store..

    Just some players have to buy the entire ship, while others just need the box..

    900 lobis for the one group and just 450 for the other group of players.

    Thats the difference to older traits/consoles from past...

    And if you look in past, they put consoles like the tachyokinetic or the bioneural infusion directly for 300 Lobis in the store, and everyone could buy them, doesnt matter which faction he is..

    Everyone who wants it, pay the same for that.. just 300 lobi for tachyo or bioneural...

    And about Astika or Zahl.. Yeah, it cost each 900 too, but every faction pays the same price, if they want the ship or their trait..

    But now we have a new, nice console/trait in the store, where some pay 900 and others 450..

    AND the ones with the ship, have to level up the mastery AND maybe need to buy ship-slots or removing an older ship to have enough place for the new ship

    - while -

    the other players just opening the box and instantly can use the trait..
    Post edited by cyphextheking on
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  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    Has anyone parsed he ship yet, in an ISA?

    Yes @diabolical91 , I am looking at you :smiley:
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    It's extremely unfortunate that nobody in these forums can apparently word their criticisms of this idea politely. The only criticisms thus far have been people complaining that I don't want the "OP" ship, or calling me a "Fed whiner" for politely asking. The latter of which makes no sense, because I have an equal number of Fed, KDF, and Romulan toons, and I've paid roughly equal amounts of real money gearing them up. But because I'm asking for something that would benefit Feds, everyone with an axe to grind against the Fed faction is out in force.

    I'm not really mad, I just sort of feel bad for you, because you're not actually hearing where I'm coming from. That said, I can see why people might feel discouraged to use this game's forums when the prevalent attitude to a politely worded suggestion is rudeness and mockery. Thankfully, the in-game community is far more polite than this.

    Your Federation character gets an exclusive new Lobi ship(!), more ships total, an exclusive expansion, and you're saying that it isn't enough. You also want the KDF/ROM consolation prize of just being able to buy the trait/console separately. /golfclap

  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    "THE VENGEANCE'S TRAIT AND CONSOLE BOX....WHY NOT MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE?"

    There you go, fixed that for you. This way everyone would have the same access to the Ship, Starship Trait, and Console. That would have made everyone happy, right?

    Fed captain: Pays the exact same as a KDF/Rom captain, so doesn't have to feel cheated at having to spend more Lobi for a ship they may or may not need... especially since Fed captains already had access to 3 full-feature Intel Ships in the C-Store.

    KDF/Rom captain: Gains access to a full-feature Intel Ship, so doesn't need a discount to make up for the lack of availablity... especially since KDF/Rom captains only had access to 1 full-feature Intel Ship in the C-Store (and while we're complaining about price, the poor Roms wouldn't be "forced" to buy a T'Laru, at Exchange prices almost double that of the Vengeance, to gain an additional Intel option and their only T6 Carrier... a ship class also available to Fed captains in the C-Store).

    If they'd just made the Vengeance available to everyone, they could have made more money off of Lobi Ship sales, Fed players wouldn't be complaining about the lack of a discounted half-pack, and KDF/Rom players wouldn't be complaining about the lack of ship access. Win, win, win. Instead, they restricted access, and in order to make up for it they offered KDF/Rom captains a discount because they don't get everything a Fed does...
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    sinn74 wrote: »
    Your Federation character gets an exclusive new Lobi ship(!), more ships total, an exclusive expansion, and you're saying that it isn't enough. You also want the KDF/ROM consolation prize of just being able to buy the trait/console separately. /golfclap
    Let me correct you.

    My Fed captain gets a new ship that I don't want and spends twice as much for the items I do want.

    My KDF captain can get those same items for half the price. Ditto with my Rom.

    As for this "exclusive expansion" that I'm supposed to be excited about, it's literally a single day's worth of story content, it's a total joke. And as I've said in another thread, I actually would have preferred if they had done it as a storyline available to everyone, in which you send your established toons back into the TOS era as undercover temporal agents to uncover an alien plot and save the day. I actually kind of hate the fact that it's Fed exclusive because there's no real benefit to that, and it's over so soon that it would have been better suited to let everybody play it.

    I'm not a "greedy Fed player who wants it all", I'm a person with an equal number of Fed, Rom, and KDF toons across my account who wants all of those toons to have equivalent access to the content in question. As I've said at least twice now, we'd still be having this conversation if the ship was KDF exclusive and the console/trait was Fed/Rom exclusive. Ditto if it was a Rom ship with Fed/KDF box access. I'm in favor of everybody getting access to every starship trait and console, because that means every player gets more choices and more diversity. There's literally nothing to lose by doing so.

    Stop trying desperately to make this a Feds vs everyone discussion. It's intellectually dishonest, and shows that you're incapable of grasping the idea of a person who plays more than one faction.
    "THE VENGEANCE'S TRAIT AND CONSOLE BOX....WHY NOT MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE?"

    There you go, fixed that for you. This way everyone would have the same access to the Ship, Starship Trait, and Console. That would have made everyone happy, right?
    Yeah, sure, go for it.

    I honestly don't think the artificial distinctions between Fed, Rom, and KDF characters make any sense to begin with. And I don't really want the ship, but if there's people who play KDF or Rom who want to pilot it, I would be fine with them piloting it.

    ....or did you expect a different answer to that question that would reinforce this silly mentality that I'm a greedy Fed? It's honestly getting hard to tell any more. :/
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    Short answer: No

    Longer Answer: Yes but only if they went back and did the same for all of the t6 lockbox/lobi/doff box/c-store/event traits and consoles that work with sets, also for ship skins and parts. I wanted to finish the jem'hadar set on my dread and I have little need for the bugship or the carrier escort. But at the end of the day Cryptic would not do that so it's pointless to talk about it so no.
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    "THE VENGEANCE'S TRAIT AND CONSOLE BOX....WHY NOT MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE?"

    There you go, fixed that for you. This way everyone would have the same access to the Ship, Starship Trait, and Console. That would have made everyone happy, right?
    Yeah, sure, go for it.

    I honestly don't think the artificial distinctions between Fed, Rom, and KDF characters make any sense to begin with. And I don't really want the ship, but if there's people who play KDF or Rom who want to pilot it, I would be fine with them piloting it.

    ....or did you expect a different answer to that question that would reinforce this silly mentality that I'm a greedy Fed? It's honestly getting hard to tell any more. :/

    To be clear, I'm not saying that you're greedy; I'm saying that making the Vengeance faction-restricted is what led to the perception that Fed captains are missing out on something. In all practicality, the Vengeance works just like any other Lobi Ship: Pay 900 Lobi, get Ship w/Console + Starship Trait upon completing Mastery. That KDF/Rom captains gain the half-pack doesn't help their already limited ship lineups, doesn't fill in any gaps in their Intel Ship lines, nor does it somehow make the Vengeance a worse deal for a Fed captain than other T6 Lobi Ships... yet that's how a Fed captain ends up seeing things because they don't really need the ship itself.

    As the first faction-exclusive Lobi Ship, your complaint here should serve as a good reason to simply leave Lobi Ships available to all captains.
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • datcritickittendatcritickitten Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    To be clear, I'm not saying that you're greedy; I'm saying that making the Vengeance faction-restricted is what led to the perception that Fed captains are missing out on something. In all practicality, the Vengeance works just like any other Lobi Ship: Pay 900 Lobi, get Ship w/Console + Starship Trait upon completing Mastery. That KDF/Rom captains gain the half-pack doesn't help their already limited ship lineups, doesn't fill in any gaps in their Intel Ship lines, nor does it somehow make the Vengeance a worse deal for a Fed captain than other T6 Lobi Ships... yet that's how a Fed captain ends up seeing things because they don't really need the ship itself.

    As the first faction-exclusive Lobi Ship, your complaint here should serve as a good reason to simply leave Lobi Ships available to all captains.
    I don't disagree. If the ship was 900 lobi and available to everyone, this issue wouldn't exist since it would be no different than any other Lobi ship.

    However, it's already too late to fix in this case, since they made the box in the first place. Whereas it's not necessarily too late to make the box universal.

    I do agree, though. Better to keep all Lobi ships available to everybody.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
    Yeah it would be nice to either keep all lobi ships alien ships, and available to all players. Or that if you are going to do a faction-specific ship like they did here, make sure you have a one for each faction. You could also still do the idea of having a lobi-box that gives access to the console/trait on one of the other faction's ships to be bought by the other faction.
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