[PODCAST] [INTERVIEWS] Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 223: "Passion and Rage Ignite"

midniteshadow7 · June 2016

Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 223: "Passion and Rage Ignite" has warped on to Holosuite Media, you can download and stream it from:

http://bit.ly/tie223

This week we are first joined by Star Trek Online's Producer Maria Rosseau and QA Lead, Kiera Castner; and we enjoy a couple of hours talking STO and going through many questions submitted to us by the community.

Afterwards (1:49:12) we chat with Jim Bray from Star Trek Anthology and Carlos Pedraza from AxaMonitor about the brand new Star Trek Fan Film Guidlines.

Once the new fan production guidleines are discussed we go through this week's Star Trek TV and Film news (4:15:33) plus listener feedback!

It's one mammoth show!!

Our community question this week is: What are your thoughts about the new fan film guidelines from CBS and Paramount?

Please reply to this post with any feedback you have about any topic we've covered or even about the show in general, we'd love to hear what our listeners have to say. And feedback to us now and be entered in to a prize draw to get yourself a Star Trek Online Legacy of Romulus Starter Pack, Zen and Lockbox keys. Rules are here: http://holosuitemedia.com/tiefeedbackgiveaways2016/ - Just reply to this post to enter.

Please help friend of the show and fellow Star Trek Online player and podcaster Mav with donations to support his recovery with his current health situation here: http://www.gofundme.com/tomsrecovery.

LLAP

kjwashington · June 2016

I think that the new fan production film guidelines are insane, and basically prevent any decent quality work from being done.
(And no, it isn't Axanar's fault. It's the fault of greedy corporate people that were afraid of a fan film competing with their big-budget productions.)

Just the first rule alone is asinine. Single installments no longer than 15 minutes? No more than two installments that total no more than 30 minutes? That's barely enough time to get in the plot of a story.

samt1996 · June 2016

It's broken...

sisteric · June 2016

samt1996 wrote: »

It's broken...

Works for me....

oldkhemaraa · June 2016

Umm Broken, nope nope, worse then broken. To weak a word. Pretty much up there with a Disrupter blast to the face as far as current fan projects go. Do I trust CBS? Ummm, Nope.

samt1996 · June 2016

Ok it works for me now.

ossangreycouncil · June 2016

15 minute segments? How could you have character development in something that short? Not to mention developing an actual plot. I would like to see if CBS/Paramount could follow those rules and not think it was overly restrictive.
Cannot promote your own works? How utterly realistic in today's online presence (sarcasm).
This coming from a company that had an undisclosed settlement with JMS over DS9. Protecting intellectual property only when it is in their favor apparently. Has anyone ever asked Gene's son what he thinks about all of this?
The bottom line is that fanfic, fan made episodes or movies, art, etc...is made by fans for fans because there is a story, development, idea, and/or inclusiveness that CBS/Paramount won't touch. Fans want something that will both entertain and they can identify with. In addition, Star Trek is about story, exploration, and the idea that we can be better than we are. And how has CBS lived up to that ideal? They canceled ST:E quickly enough because it wasn't making the numbers they wanted. And the movies...well I'm still waiting to see how it lives to the ideal of Star Trek instead of Star Wars.
The whole thing just reeks of a knee-jerk reaction for someone doing something better than they did/have done. It reminds me of the fascist response of the music industry to the internet. From the sound of things, it sounds like the person making the film was the bad apple in the bunch. Did he go overboard in baiting the bear? Possibly. However to punish everyone for it is just too much.

sunseahl · June 2016

Contrary Opinion Alert:

I honestly think these guidelines are not bad thing. Sure the immediate news of the guidelines gave me pause. Bust so too did the initial news of CBS suing Axanar... Then after letting it sit and mulling over the truth of the issue I honestly think these guidelines are a great thing for the fan-film community.

Sure it means we'll never see another ST: Continues but Vic's company is already a 501(c)(3) Charitable Organization at this point. They could turn around and help amature fan-films do their segments with props, settings, all sorts of the like. And those other organizations that own official "Trek" equipment? They can kinda unload it off on ST:C as a charitable donation write-off. Yes, Jim Bray, i'm lookin' at you for that.

The "restriction" on storytelling? What restriction? MANY Television shows have told a story in under 24 minutes (6 minutes for commercials) The only restriction in this is that the useless clutter needs to be cut. You're not making a franchise, you're just making a story IN that franchise. You're setting up a piece that has a beginning, middle, and end.... No b-plot, no character filler... just story.

If Sesame Street can have 10 self-contained segments with their own plot and theme in 30 minutes
Then you can have 1 or 2 self-contained stories in the same time

Time and budget are kinda the reason we are where we are anyway.

Peters wanted to make a feature length movie
Tim Russ already did

And each time the budgets got bigger and the actors more recognizable. Taking this all the way back to what Wars does... Fan-films (Emphasis on FAN) you shouldn't have Tim Russ walking on-set in your fan film... unless he's like, your uncle and he accidentally walked in. This should be about YOU and YOUR story in Trek.... Trek makes YOU a fan of itself. You don't make Trek your own fan.

My only concern is.... What about those Trek fans that HAVE worked on trek that want to make a fan-film? They're the only people really screwed by these guidelines.

dragonsbrethren · June 2016

The whole "afraid of fans making something better than Beyond/the new series" argument is such a joke, get over yourselves. Fan films are awesome, but they're a niche market. This wasn't motivated out of fear, this was motivated out of protecting an IP.

These guidelines are unprecedented and, as far as I'm concerned, very fair. They also don't apply retroactively, so anything that is already out there can stay out there. Anything new is free to ignore them, too, they're only guidelines. But this makes it very clear what CBS/Paramount can't come after you for.

alex1ger · June 2016

Hello there, tribbles.

Community question:

See, restrictions are not always bad. Quite the opposite. During the show you mentioned that George Lucas wanted to make Flash Gordon. Guess what... That was not the only restriction. He also had to operate with a limited budget and he didn't direct the two sequels.
Why is that important? I'm glad you asked... What did George Lucas do with all that Star Wars money and the creative freedom attached to it? Digital remasterings (who shot first?), the prequels...
Now, restrictions can (obviously) be bad, but in case of George Lucas, they can not only be good, they can be necessary.
Yes, there is something like "too much creative freedom" and "too much money".

Or let's take a look at a tiny game developer. They wanted to make a Warhammer game. Something went wrong (probably financial disagreements?) and they changed their game. That game is known to us as Warcraft: Orcs & Humans.

Now let's look at a bad example. Or rather two... Take a developer, give them more money than they "should" be able to spend and tell them to make a "WoW killer".
What do you get? Warhammer: Age of Reckoning and Star Wars: The Old Republic.
Now, SW:TOR is still alive and (supposedly) kicking, but I can assure you that EA did expect something more than being forced to turn the game into some F2P-Sub-Hybrid less than a year after launch... And I think we remember Warhammer's sad, sad story.

I definitely would have preferred it if the guidelines had allowed shows like Star Trek: Continues to keep going. Or if Tommy Kraft had been able to do his sequel. But only time will tell how fan films can/will evolve.

Btw. did you catch the clarification? People do not "need" to buy all props/costumes, they can still be self-made. But if you do use bought stuff (or stuff that other people bought and gave to you), then it has to be licensed.

Feedback:

Summer event bugs:
Well, I got double rewards (first and second place) for the powerboard race a total of four times now.
Two times by accident and two times to see if those were just extremely rare glitches or somewhat recurring incidents. Afterwards I looked through the in-game bug database and... well, either nobody filed a bug report or the search function is just window dressing. So I filed a bug report. But since we all know how to get Cryptic to fix things...

Oh and like I mentioned during the show, the speed boosts for the powerboard race do work now, but someone clearly did something wrong, because they are insane. Kinda fun, but definitely way over-tuned.

Star Trek Beyond: Rihanna trailer:
I watched it, I am indifferent to the song, but around 1:10 there is a scene with Kirk, Chekov and an alien crewmember walking through some sort of woods. That alien somewhat reminded me of Dr. Lazarus. (I hope I don't have to explain why you should know Dr. Lazarus...

)

Infinity lockbox:
I wish I could exchange some of my old piled up lockboxes. Although bigger stack sizes for lockboxes would be fine, too.

Agents of Yesterday:
So, wednesday...
I read the temporal recruitment rewards blog... That is gonna take a while to get through, but the rewards sound decent.
I will play the expansion, but I'd like to remind you that TOS is not my favorite series, so fan-service won't have that much of an effect on me and the Temporal War made me really unhappy. Dear story team, if you love what you have created, stay FAR away from my reviews (whenever those might happen). You have been warned.

Oh and something that I have been thinking about... Does anyone here remember ever seeing (or hearing about) a TOS game?
I mean, the almighty metrics said there would be about 20% klingons. And there was at least one klingon-centric game (klingon academy), but I cannot remember ever seeing a TOS game.
No, Starfleet Academy was not a TOS game, it was a movie era game. Or Wrath of Khan-era to be more specific. Those red uniforms were rather memorable.

sisteric · June 2016

Of all things on the that the guidelines have there is only one section that I object too. The fact that you cannot do a series. I hate that rule because I rather see the stories told with a set of characters that I know and love, I want to see what they would do in different situations. And that's how I see my characters grow.

Also, for fan productions, it's easier for that production to reuse sets and props if they can keep the same series going. It also allows for them to get a dedicated core group of amateur actors to commit to a continuing storyline and production schedule. It also means that when they buy these "official" products, that investment will be a good choice because they know that they will be re-using that prop within their story arc.

The rest is reasonable and easy to see how things can be adjusted. But killing series and sequels is just one step to far in my book.

sisteric · June 2016

alex1ger wrote: »

Hello there, tribbles.

Oh and something that I have been thinking about... Does anyone here remember ever seeing (or hearing about) a TOS game?
I mean, the almighty metrics said there would be about 20% klingons. And there was at least one klingon-centric game (klingon academy), but I cannot remember ever seeing a TOS game.
No, Starfleet Academy was not a TOS game, it was a movie era game. Or Wrath of Khan-era to be more specific. Those red uniforms were rather memorable.

Back in the 70's they created several computer games for Star Trek, some were Text games, but a few had graphics and you moved Kirk, Spock and McCoy about.

aphelionmarauder · July 2016

sisteric wrote: »

Of all things on the that the guidelines have there is only one section that I object too. The fact that you cannot do a series. I hate that rule because I rather see the stories told with a set of characters that I know and love, I want to see what they would do in different situations. And that's how I see my characters grow.

Also, for fan productions, it's easier for that production to reuse sets and props if they can keep the same series going. It also allows for them to get a dedicated core group of amateur actors to commit to a continuing storyline and production schedule. It also means that when they buy these "official" products, that investment will be a good choice because they know that they will be re-using that prop within their story arc.

The rest is reasonable and easy to see how things can be adjusted. But killing series and sequels is just one step to far in my book.

CBS also reserves the right to pick and choose what they enforce.

If you make a home-movie quality series of Star Trek, CBS will laugh at you and continue to make there well-deserved millions.

If you make a fan film with people who have acting degrees and are not still in college making assignment movies for grades, CBS will laugh and then call there lawyers.

The guidelines essentially say "if you are within these guidelines there is a 98% chance your ok", but if you go all out and make this amazing series that if you were selling it you WOULD put a dent in there profits, they will come after you regardless of what stands in there way.

I think that if you made a series and it turned out to be equivalent to acting skill of extras, use effects you find in Windows Movie Maker, and upload it to You Tube in 480p resolution, and cite the original creator 7 ways to Sunday as the original creator and all you credit yourself for is sitting in front of your computer and assembling the video itself so it could be uploaded, then CBS would not give one iota. The entire point of a fan film is to be a crappy quality but a moderately entertaining story within a universe. But the current fan-film directions have literally become fans re-inventing the wheel, and that is why CBS got fed up. Axanar though they could do what they were doing because they called themselves a fan film. They weren't making a fan film, they were making a FILM, and that is why we have arrived where we are.

sisteric · July 2016

aphelionmarauder wrote: »

sisteric wrote: »

Of all things on the that the guidelines have there is only one section that I object too. The fact that you cannot do a series. I hate that rule because I rather see the stories told with a set of characters that I know and love, I want to see what they would do in different situations. And that's how I see my characters grow.

Also, for fan productions, it's easier for that production to reuse sets and props if they can keep the same series going. It also allows for them to get a dedicated core group of amateur actors to commit to a continuing storyline and production schedule. It also means that when they buy these "official" products, that investment will be a good choice because they know that they will be re-using that prop within their story arc.

The rest is reasonable and easy to see how things can be adjusted. But killing series and sequels is just one step to far in my book.

CBS also reserves the right to pick and choose what they enforce.

If you make a home-movie quality series of Star Trek, CBS will laugh at you and continue to make there well-deserved millions.

If you make a fan film with people who have acting degrees and are not still in college making assignment movies for grades, CBS will laugh and then call there lawyers.

The guidelines essentially say "if you are within these guidelines there is a 98% chance your ok", but if you go all out and make this amazing series that if you were selling it you WOULD put a dent in there profits, they will come after you regardless of what stands in there way.

I think that if you made a series and it turned out to be equivalent to acting skill of extras, use effects you find in Windows Movie Maker, and upload it to You Tube in 480p resolution, and cite the original creator 7 ways to Sunday as the original creator and all you credit yourself for is sitting in front of your computer and assembling the video itself so it could be uploaded, then CBS would not give one iota. The entire point of a fan film is to be a crappy quality but a moderately entertaining story within a universe. But the current fan-film directions have literally become fans re-inventing the wheel, and that is why CBS got fed up. Axanar though they could do what they were doing because they called themselves a fan film. They weren't making a fan film, they were making a FILM, and that is why we have arrived where we are.

If you wish to keep to the guidelines, you can't make a series. And if you Make a series, you open yourself up to a possible lawsuit. End result, most people will not take the chance. And now that portion of fan film making is eliminated. And I, personally, do not like watching one offs. SO in effect they are reducing the fan base by those who don't like one offs in their fan films. I see this as a bad overall change.

Like I said, it's just this one position. The rest I see as reasonable in and of itself.

sunseahl · July 2016

You can make a series.... sort of.... the legal terms NEVER say "no series," just that each film must be self-contained without any further mentions afterward.

the term "self-contained episode" is a VERY vague legal term....

What are self-contained episodes?

Sesame Street - an entire show of self-contained skit segments.
The Magic School Bus - a learning version of Star Trek with the threading string being a class that field trips
Tales From the Crypt - Different stories every episode but with a continuity in a narrator.
The Twilight Zone - same as above.

So what would you legally be able to do? More likely the latter two. You can have Trek fan-stories with a single, unnamed narrator who presents the segments.

[PODCAST] [INTERVIEWS] Tribbles in Ecstasy Take 223: "Passion and Rage Ignite"

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