That would be awful news if this is true. It makes zero sense as to why they would expect us paying customers to have replay everything from the start when we have put so much effort into our account.
They don't expect you to do that all. They expect you to keep playing on the PC, as you have done before. The objective is making new players on top of the ones they already have, people that don't have PCs, or don't use them to play games like STO.
When they want you to rebuy stuff, they increase the level cap.
If they want new players, they make new starting content like a new faction or introduce a new platform.
They don't?, have they read the forums lately?, many of us want to play on console, pc. It's ridiculous to assume PC gamers aren't also console gamers too. I have friends and family that don't care for playing on PC, the same for PC gamers that don't care for playing on Console, yet I'd rather play with both groups of friends. Right now there's over 300+ on STO Facebook liking comments about this query or worrying about their life-time membership on consoles, which show's there expectations are clearly wrong.
It be pretty crazy to assume PC gamers won't play on consoles too, it's going to split the community and cause a major backlash if the long term STO fans can't play with their accounts.
One of the biggest requests is cross-play, that's just an un-deniable fact that a majority of gamers have been asking for since Microsoft, Sony announced cross-play, as soon as STO on consoles was announced.
they basically stated in the podcast that they are expecting most console users to be new players, they are not expecting PC sto players to move over to console unless perhaps they are very new players with very little invested money & gameplay wise to loose in the move or for the very few who don't mind loosing what they have invested.
as it stands there will be no transferring of characters between platforms and no multi platform play, they said to basically think of the console versions of sto as completely different and separate games.
That's really annoying to hear, I'm a console and PC gamer, it makes no sense to alienate multi-platform gamers that swap between platforms often. I refuse to see it as a separate game, it's literally all down to them now to do the work, it's certainly off putting to long term STO players like myself since I was actually looking forward to a console release.
Here's the thing. You remember that we get a new update every week?
This won't fly on the consoles. Sony and Microsoft have a vetting process for games and game updates. And it takes - according to some reports at least - about a month to go through that.
Do you want a monthly (or slower?) patch cycle? Do you want to wait a full month for any sudden and serious bugs to be fixed, instead of getting an emergency maintenance?
But beyond that:
What are Sony's and Microsoft's policies regarding in-game purchases / micro-transactions? Will they not want their share of it? Would they be happy if lots of players could just transfer their stuff without them getting their cut? Or would PWE be happy if they suddenly had to give away money that was already theirs to pay for the transfer?
Would it be fair to let loose hundreds or thousands of new players against a community of all the space rich that are accustomed to paying hundreds of millions EC to buy a lockbox ship from the Exchange?
Would it be fair if all those new people joined hte usual PvE queues and the fight was always over after a minute or two because some experienced DPS player was in the same queue, playing with keyboard shortcuts and mouse to reach a level of performance the console players would have neither the knowledge nor the input device for?
You might think - but that's how it is for every noob in STO! And that's a problem. Because that means the noob realizes how much he has to catch up - and he might just leave again.
Keep the consoles seperate from the PC version, and you keep all the problems at bay. The only ones that are losing out are people that want to switch or play with console owning friends. But... It only means you're not getting a direct benefit of this - you already played on the PC before, and you managed to do it without those console playing friends.
But you might still indirectly benefit - if the whole deal is a success, Cryptic might be able to afford making more content...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Updates? sure less time between updates, that's always a case, nobody said porting to consoles was easy.
Thousands on the lockbox based on new users......that's always a problem with new users pop up, the difference is a large majority of gamers are also previous gamers.
PVE over in a minute?, I don't even see that on PC now...sure some do but that'll always be the case in some games.
1 noob going off the game does NOT mean the entire console base are the same. -_-
There is no direct benefit of no cross-play or no cross-toon's for me whatsoever. Yes I played it without console friends, yes I do gain a benefit from these features.......I like console gaming and I like playing with friends, removing my toons means if a friend is playing PS4 while I'm on X1 then I lose any chance of playing with friends who don't own the opposite console or pc. I like PC gaming at the moment for STO since means I can watch video's on the side or can play at work while console gaming at work isn't an option.
The difference is by alienating PC/Console cross-players it means that STO will end up as a game for most that will play it for game-score then move onto different games while including one of the most requested features will keep gamers playing in the long term.
Sure the dev's are going to want 'new' console gamers but how is that going to get them to keep playing?, if the other long term STO gamer friends are less interested in having their toons practically reset to nothing. I put a lot of time into the game so yes I'm going to be highly annoyed with this. Separate servers is a pretty bad idea, even confirming the cross-play idea alone would lead to a huge boost to player base since this would be one of the first big cross-overs that nobody has even tried yet.
No toon/account transfer is a deal breaker for me. I bought an XBONE and haven't played a PC game since. I know PC is superior but in my older age I have began to appreciate the convenience and ease of use consoles provide. No more driver updates to worry about. No more graphics settings to tweak, No more having to turn down the gfx for the more graphically intensive parts of the games etc. Thus I haven't played STO for real in almost a year and was excited to hear it was coming to consoles. But I will not start over.
No toons? Frustrating, but I could maybe look past it and start a new Cpt. No toons or account unlocks? No thank you. I'll pass.
Heck I'd even be willing to pay for it. So much per account or per toon or something. But I will not start over.
No toon/account transfer is a deal breaker for me. I bought an XBONE and haven't played a PC game since. I know PC is superior but in my older age I have began to appreciate the convenience and ease of use consoles provide. No more driver updates to worry about. No more graphics settings to tweak, No more having to turn down the gfx for the more graphically intensive parts of the games etc. Thus I haven't played STO for real in almost a year and was excited to hear it was coming to consoles. But I will not start over.
No toons? Frustrating, but I could maybe look past it and start a new Cpt. No toons or account unlocks? No thank you. I'll pass.
Heck I'd even be willing to pay for it. So much per account or per toon or something. But I will not start over.
Just my two cents.
Kind of same problem, it just seems like the only reason to bother is for game-score on the Xbox One or Trophies for Ps4.
Allowing toon transfers would have meant I could keep mining dilithium when I'm being asked to come on console by friends. Sure I like playing on PC but playing on the console meant I wouldn't need to stop what I was doing while I talked to friends on console/consoles.
To all the PC players that are upset about not being able to play their accounts on their consoles, I'd wait and hear more before really getting bent out of shape over it.
But really, they aren't looking at this as an advantage for them to get players they already have, they're looking at this to get players they DON'T already have. The console market is huge and an untapped market for STO. If they gain a substantial number of new players to the game, regardless of if we can play with them or not, it's an incredibly good thing for the game.
More players means more support for the game from PWI - who've already invested more money into the game to port it over to the consoles, because they see it as a great opportunity worth investing in.
But really, even though it's too early to tell on some of these concerns that are being brought up here - who knows, they may offer some incentives or bonuses for those PC players that want to give the console versions a try...we don't know yet - but again it's not about you. It's about expanding the overall player base.
To all the PC players that are upset about not being able to play their accounts on their consoles, I'd wait and hear more before really getting bent out of shape over it.
But really, they aren't looking at this as an advantage for them to get players they already have, they're looking at this to get players they DON'T already have. The console market is huge and an untapped market for STO. If they gain a substantial number of new players to the game, regardless of if we can play with them or not, it's an incredibly good thing for the game.
More players means more support for the game from PWI - who've already invested more money into the game to port it over to the consoles, because they see it as a great opportunity worth investing in.
But really, even though it's too early to tell on some of these concerns that are being brought up here - who knows, they may offer some incentives or bonuses for those PC players that want to give the console versions a try...we don't know yet - but again it's not about you. It's about expanding the overall player base.
I agree with that. I'm not trying to jump to conclusions here. I was merely reacting to the possibility. I'll continue to take a wait-and-see approach with all things Cryptic. I learned that from the hullabaloo around Delta Rising. I was one of the people upset about the whole T-5/6/U fiasco, but it turned out to be no big deal.
I am just making my position on the matter known. Not that my opinion matters more than anyone else's/at all, but I wanted to voice my concerns.
It's more of a concern, from experience when something get's settled...things in general do tend to follow excuses later on in development that prevents games from innovating due to things that were done early on in development.
I think it's pretty obvious that there not looking at the PC gamers when it comes to consoles cross-play or toon transfer but it is a genuine concern that a fair amount of us are concerned about, it's better that the issue is known instead of it being shoved under the rug.
Obviously it should involve us PC gamers still since it's gamers like myself that gossip and encourage other gamers to get involved, this cross-play would have been the best thing for STO since it would mean gamers could unite.
In this community if anyone asked for Xbox One/Ps4 ports a year ago then they would have got flamed in these forums by 'Pc Elitist' before the announcement so it's hard to get a view across without the concern being ignored. Sure nothing is set in stone but it seems if people feel strong enough about it then it might just happen, it's part of the reason why I doubt we'll ever see a Borg faction since there doesn't seem to be enough demand for it any-more so it seems very unlikely to happen.
Anyone I do come off as quite vocal on this topic more than others but that's only because I enjoy playing the game, feel like lack of cross-play and toon transfer is limiting STO's potential, I've spent countless hours playing this game.
they basically stated in the podcast that they are expecting most console users to be new players, they are not expecting PC sto players to move over to console unless perhaps they are very new players with very little invested money & gameplay wise to loose in the move or for the very few who don't mind loosing what they have invested.
as it stands there will be no transferring of characters between platforms and no multi platform play, they said to basically think of the console versions of sto as completely different and separate games.
That's really annoying to hear, I'm a console and PC gamer, it makes no sense to alienate multi-platform gamers that swap between platforms often. I refuse to see it as a separate game, it's literally all down to them now to do the work, it's certainly off putting to long term STO players like myself since I was actually looking forward to a console release.
Here's the thing. You remember that we get a new update every week?
This won't fly on the consoles. Sony and Microsoft have a vetting process for games and game updates. And it takes - according to some reports at least - about a month to go through that.
Do you want a monthly (or slower?) patch cycle? Do you want to wait a full month for any sudden and serious bugs to be fixed, instead of getting an emergency maintenance?
But beyond that:
What are Sony's and Microsoft's policies regarding in-game purchases / micro-transactions? Will they not want their share of it? Would they be happy if lots of players could just transfer their stuff without them getting their cut? Or would PWE be happy if they suddenly had to give away money that was already theirs to pay for the transfer?
Would it be fair to let loose hundreds or thousands of new players against a community of all the space rich that are accustomed to paying hundreds of millions EC to buy a lockbox ship from the Exchange?
Would it be fair if all those new people joined hte usual PvE queues and the fight was always over after a minute or two because some experienced DPS player was in the same queue, playing with keyboard shortcuts and mouse to reach a level of performance the console players would have neither the knowledge nor the input device for?
You might think - but that's how it is for every noob in STO! And that's a problem. Because that means the noob realizes how much he has to catch up - and he might just leave again.
Keep the consoles seperate from the PC version, and you keep all the problems at bay. The only ones that are losing out are people that want to switch or play with console owning friends. But... It only means you're not getting a direct benefit of this - you already played on the PC before, and you managed to do it without those console playing friends.
But you might still indirectly benefit - if the whole deal is a success, Cryptic might be able to afford making more content...
ESO did it and aside from a bit of PvP shenanigans in the very begining it was fine. The console players who didnt start on PC eventually caught up with the PC Transfers about a month in. The only thing that would take time is obtaining the gear specific to the ship you want to fly and even that can be done in a relatively quick manner. Theyd also have the advantage of approaching the crafting system from the low levels where theyd be able to take advantage of upgrading the good gear from the get go. At this point theres nothing in the game a player cant approach with CStore purchases. Some of the best ships are there. And theres nothing about the Lockbox Ships that make them necessary over any others.
Im not even sure where you were going about microtransactions. As both Xbox and Playstaton have their own Stores filled with MTs for every game that supports that business model. ESO is B2P and has Crown (their version of Zen) Packages in 8 dollar, 15 dollar, 25 dollar and 40 dollar bundles. Who cares if MS or Sony are getting a cut. It doesnt reflect it on the player as its the same on PC as it is on console. And thats ontop of the opportunity to sub up with ESO on console for 15 dollars a month. Its doubtful console will see increased costs. Theyre already paying for access to the online aspects of the consoles.
A one-time transfer of anyone interested would of been fine and would not have impacted the console servers as adversely as you have come to think it would.
This choice of not doing transfers because of "starting fresh and being fair" is PR. The real reason behind it is that theres more than likely not enough interest on PC to warrant the cost and time spent making a transfer happen. They dont have this huge number of players demanding a transfer. So the few players that would transfer wouldnt even have an impact on the greater population that would probably almost never see them thanks to the instancing.
Since the console version of STO will likely not be getting weekly updates like STO on the PC, the consoles will always be running an older version of STO. That means content and features on the PC version will not be available yet on the console version. As stated by producer Maria “Zeronius Rex" in the Priority One Podcast linked below, both Microsoft and Sony has a validation process they must go through before anything is released / updated on those platforms. The guidelines are over 100 pages and validations can take up to 4 weeks.
If both console and PC versions of the game are different, then how does the game reconcile for the difference? Obviously, if something that has not been released yet for the console, then that content will not be available. That would mean PC STO players can have the upper hand if STO was a cross platform game. Case in point the console version will be released as of Season 11.5, but by then the Agents of Yesteryear will have already been released on the PC. There would be assets (like ships) and mechanics that are not available to the console players. Additionally, if certain mechanics were updated only in the STO PC, then the console version would be "dated".
For example, let's say within a couple of weeks after the console launch I was able to level up a captain to level 60 and STO is a cross platform game. I want to play PvP and I end up going against a PC PvPer. That person could be flying a T6 Eternal science ship whereas I am flying whatever T6 I decided to purchase. However, since AoY will not exist for console STO until 2017....
#1 - I will not be able to purchase the T6 Eternal myself. Not exactly a tactical disadvantage, but my choices of purchasable available starships is more limited.
#2 - More importantly... If AoY does not exist for the console until months later, then how would the console version have the assets to render the ship? The console version likely also does not have a database of the Eternal's abilities either.
#3 - Let's say that the STO PC has been patched to update Surgical Strike I from +20% accuracy and critical damage to +30%, but the console versions will not be getting that update until the next patch which could be up to 3 weeks away. A STO PC player would have an advantage over a STO console player in a PvP match.
===========================================
The natural solution to make sure both STO PC and STO Console are of the same version is to release patches / updated at the same time.
That's all well and good, but how many times have there been an update that caused a severe problem in the game that an emergency patch is necessary the next day? Under this circumstances the emergency patch would need to go through the validation process for both PS4 and Xbone. In order to maintain the same version across all platforms, the emergency PC patch cannot be implemented until the patches for the consoles have both been validated... which could take up to 4 weeks.
Some would argue that Cryptic needs to do more testing before releasing patches to check for bugs. However, it has been said that Cryptic is a small studio, so either they need to hire more people to beta test, or lengthen the time in between patch for more through testing. But how many people do they need to hire / how much time do they need to spend to catch all potential bugs in patches that are significant enough to may cause severe enough issues to warrant an emergency patch? I do not know the answer to that question, I merely posed it so that others can think about the issue especially since hiring more testers means higher expenses. Keep in mind that the cost of hiring a single employee is more than the cost of his / her salary. For example, the actual total expense to have someone on the payroll who earns an annual salary of $60k could be in the range of $75k to $80k as a result of the medical benefits and 401K related expenses. That excludes the initial recruiting costs. Sure there are volunteer beta testers trying out things on the Tribble server but how many of them are there and is that enough to find all the major bugs? Would the consoles have something similar to Tribble?
The console versions will likely always lag behind the STO for PC because Cryptic will likely want to see how new content and patches are working on the PC first (kinda like a litmus test) so that they can iron out the issues there before working on the consoles patches to make sure they do not cause game breaking issues that will have to wait up to another 4 weeks to be fixed.
Since the console version of STO will likely not be getting weekly updates like STO on the PC, the consoles will always be running an older version of STO. That means content and features on the PC version will not be available yet on the console version. As stated by producer Maria “Zeronius Rex" in the Priority One Podcast linked below, both Microsoft and Sony has a validation process they must go through before anything is released / updated on those platforms. The guidelines are over 100 pages and validations can take up to 4 weeks.
If both console and PC versions of the game are different, then how does the game reconcile for the difference? Obviously, if something that has not been released yet for the console, then that content will not be available. That would mean PC STO players can have the upper hand if STO was a cross platform game. Case in point the console version will be released as of Season 11.5, but by then the Agents of Yesteryear will have already been released on the PC. There would be assets (like ships) and mechanics that are not available to the console players. Additionally, if certain mechanics were updated only in the STO PC, then the console version would be "dated".
For example, let's say within a couple of weeks after the console launch I was able to level up a captain to level 60 and STO is a cross platform game. I want to play PvP and I end up going against a PC PvPer. That person could be flying a T6 Eternal science ship whereas I am flying whatever T6 I decided to purchase. However, since AoY will not exist for console STO until 2017....
#1 - I will not be able to purchase the T6 Eternal myself. Not exactly a tactical disadvantage, but my choices of purchasable available starships is more limited.
#2 - More importantly... If AoY does not exist for the console until months later, then how would the console version have the assets to render the ship? The console version likely also does not have a database of the Eternal's abilities either.
#3 - Let's say that the STO PC has been patched to update Surgical Strike I from +20% accuracy and critical damage to +30%, but the console versions will not be getting that update until the next patch which could be up to 3 weeks away. A STO PC player would have an advantage over a STO console player in a PvP match.
===========================================
The natural solution to make sure both STO PC and STO Console are of the same version is to release patches / updated at the same time.
That's all well and good, but how many times have there been an update that caused a severe problem in the game that an emergency patch is necessary the next day? Under this circumstances the emergency patch would need to go through the validation process for both PS4 and Xbone. In order to maintain the same version across all platforms, the emergency PC patch cannot be implemented until the patches for the consoles have both been validated... which could take up to 4 weeks.
Some would argue that Cryptic needs to do more testing before releasing patches to check for bugs. However, it has been said that Cryptic is a small studio, so either they need to hire more people to beta test, or lengthen the time in between patch for more through testing. But how many people do they need to hire / how much time do they need to spend to catch all potential bugs in patches that are significant enough to may cause severe enough issues to warrant an emergency patch? I do not know the answer to that question, I merely posed it so that others can think about the issue especially since hiring more testers means higher expenses. Keep in mind that the cost of hiring a single employee is more than the cost of his / her salary. For example, the actual total expense to have someone on the payroll who earns an annual salary of $60k could be in the range of $75k to $80k as a result of the medical benefits and 401K related expenses. That excludes the initial recruiting costs. Sure there are volunteer beta testers trying out things on the Tribble server but how many of them are there and is that enough to find all the major bugs? Would the consoles have something similar to Tribble?
The console versions will likely always lag behind the STO for PC because Cryptic will likely want to see how new content and patches are working on the PC first (kinda like a litmus test) so that they can iron out the issues there before working on the consoles patches to make sure they do not cause game breaking issues that will have to wait up to another 4 weeks to be fixed.
Then how does Destiny do it?
I play Destiny pretty regularly (I know, I know) and have for a while. It's the only console game I play that gets patches/updates regularly. If they release a patch and something goes wrong or something gets broken by the patch it gets patched again and fixed within a week. Sometimes the very next day.
Why would it be different for STO? Why does it not take four weeks for Destiny? I'm not flaming I'm genuinely curious.
I play Destiny pretty regularly (I know, I know) and have for a while. It's the only console game I play that gets patches/updates regularly. If they release a patch and something goes wrong or something gets broken by the patch it gets patched again and fixed within a week. Sometimes the very next day.
Why would it be different for STO? Why does it not take four weeks for Destiny? I'm not flaming I'm genuinely curious.
I don't know since STO is really the only MMO I play. It seems though that Destiny is one of the exceptions and not the norm.
Do you happen to know how many employees Bungie have compared to Cryptic in terms of developers, game testers, bug hunters, etc? Perhaps they can manage to have a cross platform game that is maintained on a regular basis due to the number of employees they have. I would assume Bungie has a rather large number of employees considering they have sold millions upon millions of copies of Halo 1 thru 3 and they have being hiring employees over time to work on Destiny as well as other IPs that have in the works.
According to Wikipedia, Bungie employs a total of 750 people in 2016. No such information is available for Cryptic Studio. Naturally, that number includes everyone such as the accounting department, human resources, janitors and the legal department. I would have to say that Cryptic Studio likely employs a lot less than 750 people.
Getting back to STO, I am not saying that every single patch / update on the console will take 4 weeks. I only stated that according to Mary Rosseau the validation process can take up to 4 weeks.
I play Destiny pretty regularly (I know, I know) and have for a while. It's the only console game I play that gets patches/updates regularly. If they release a patch and something goes wrong or something gets broken by the patch it gets patched again and fixed within a week. Sometimes the very next day.
Why would it be different for STO? Why does it not take four weeks for Destiny? I'm not flaming I'm genuinely curious.
I don't know since STO is really the only MMO I play. It seems though that Destiny is one of the exceptions and not the norm.
Do you happen to know how many employees Bungie have compared to Cryptic in terms of developers, game testers, bug hunters, etc? Perhaps they can manage to have a cross platform game that is maintained on a regular basis due to the number of employees they have. I would assume Bungie has a rather large number of employees considering they have sold millions upon millions of copies of Halo 1 thru 3 and they have being hiring employees over time to work on Destiny as well as other IPs that have in the works.
According to Wikipedia, Bungie employs a total of 750 people in 2016. No such information is available for Cryptic Studio. Naturally, that number includes everyone such as the accounting department, human resources, janitors and the legal department. I would have to say that Cryptic Studio likely employs a lot less than 750 people.
Getting back to STO, I am not saying that every single patch / update on the console will take 4 weeks. I only stated that according to Mary Rosseau the validation process can take up to 4 weeks.
I pretty sure that of course Bungie has a bigger staff and more resources. But the quote didn't say anything about "development" time, it referred to "validation" time. Irregardless of the time it takes to develop the patch the validation time should be comparable (all other things being equal. Patch size, scope etc). Right?
And please, don't take it personally. I'm not shooting the messenger or trying to flame you. I'm just trying to parse the information.
EDIT: I really don't care about cross-platform play necessarily, but am curious abut the dynamics of it and was just musing aloud about what you posted.
As stated in my original post, my main concern is character/account transfer. Even if it's for a limited time after launch, like ESO's was, I think we should be allowed to transfer our characters/accounts. I'd even be willing to pay a reasonable fee for it. Your first purchase would get you one character and your account unlocks, and then each subsequent purchase is one character only. We know STO already is capable of something similar with Holodeck and Tribble. I can transfer my character to Tribble and then my play on one doesn't affect the other. I hope Cryptic does something similar with consoles.
Seems like the best solution is probably to stick with PS4/X1 cross-play since in theory they would need to be able to update at roughly the same time then patch in the PC version later when they feel the PC is close enough to be similar to the console release. As for the transfer accounts well that should be a feature that should be allowed on any console or pc at a later date but for now I'd suggest releasing the console transfer build when the current player config is the same on both console and pc to avoid any conflicting data. Maybe it's best to slow down on the PC updates until the console release is more or less caught up then start adding the new features like PC/Console cross-play.
My concern is if there's no transfer at launch then it could lead to conflicting problems later on like in-game purchases missing and life-time members losing all their perks on console.
despite the revelations in the latest podcast I still believe that once the consoles has a large enough player base and the players have spent enough time and money to keep them playing that the floodgates will open and we will all be able to play together, they may even allow character/account transfers/access as that stage including LTS status.
it could be 6 months or a year and might even be longer before this happens but I wont be at all shocked if or when it does.
all we can do is wait and see.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
despite the revelations in the latest podcast I still believe that once the consoles has a large enough player base and the players have spent enough time and money to keep them playing that the floodgates will open and we will all be able to play together, they may even allow character/account transfers/access as that stage including LTS status.
it could be 6 months or a year and might even be longer before this happens but I wont be at all shocked if or when it does.
all we can do is wait and see.
That's a good point. Especially when the population on all side decline after a while, it'd be a great way to provide a artificial population boom.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
I pretty sure that of course Bungie has a bigger staff and more resources. But the quote didn't say anything about "development" time, it referred to "validation" time. Irregardless of the time it takes to develop the patch the validation time should be comparable (all other things being equal. Patch size, scope etc). Right?
Yep, the validation period excludes development time for the content / patch updates. Presumable a small change or "quick fix" like an emergency patch should not take very long to validate. Though I am sure it must go into a queue with other patches / updates that requires validation.
As stated in my original post, my main concern is character/account transfer. Even if it's for a limited time after launch, like ESO's was, I think we should be allowed to transfer our characters/accounts. I'd even be willing to pay a reasonable fee for it.
Yeah, superficially it would seem to be technically possible. In a simplistic point of it is only a matter of porting information from the "PC database" to the "Console database". Perhaps the format of the data needs to be updated. Plus the data for assets that does not exist and will never exist in the console version will be deleted. Additionally, assets that do not exist yet in the console version simply exist as a placeholder until the console versions catches up to the PC version of STO.
For example, it is unlike that the Risan Summer Event ships will exist in the console version of STO. They are now "exclusive" and can no longer be obtained by anyone. That allows Cryptic to streamline the console version of the game. If you have those ships and then decide to transfer your account to the PS4 you would loose those event ships. Now the solution to that problem is for Cryptic to keep those ship assets in the console version. But since the console version of STO is meant to draw new blood into the game, it is unlikely Cryptic will have "obsolete" assets in the console versions.
Additionally, if you create a AoY character and / or purchased any of the yet to be released TOS starship when the expansion goes live on PC and then transfer your account to the PS4 prior to 2017, then your account will have assets that would not be currently available on the console. Those assets would need to be temporarily disabled on your account until the consoles get AoY... and hopefully those assets do not accidentally get deleted.
While I have not listened to the most recent Priority One Podcast interview with Steve "Salami_Inferno" Ricossa, Executive Producerof STO, apparently he stated that making STO a cross platform game sometime in the future is a "possibility".
Best thing is NOT to cave into the metrics...so their numbers might suffer and then perhaps they might think about a crossplatform. My guess is that they will wait and see how it does. Worst thing is that both console and pc gamers will be left in the cold with buggy content and boring stories as it is now.
despite the revelations in the latest podcast I still believe that once the consoles has a large enough player base and the players have spent enough time and money to keep them playing that the floodgates will open and we will all be able to play together, they may even allow character/account transfers/access as that stage including LTS status.
it could be 6 months or a year and might even be longer before this happens but I wont be at all shocked if or when it does.
all we can do is wait and see.
Sure but by then transfers could be a problem for PC gamers. Mainly because there's usually a limit on how many characters can be made available for PC, well this could be problem for people like me that have more than 8 toon's on their account.
Personally rather start with all my toons except it doesn't look like I will any time soon so I'd probably end up playing for Game-score but if transfers comes a thing then this could be a problem if my console doesn't have enough slots to transfer all my toon's, I'd rather the accounts be synced so I wouldn't need to worry about this. So in theory I'd have 1-3 console toon's and 12+ Pc toon's that could be played on either console or pc without the hassle of constantly asking the servers to transfer them.
Since Ps4, Xbox One are on separate servers then the 'transfer' server issue will probably be a problem since I would rather sync the toons across the platforms.
despite the revelations in the latest podcast I still believe that once the consoles has a large enough player base and the players have spent enough time and money to keep them playing that the floodgates will open and we will all be able to play together, they may even allow character/account transfers/access as that stage including LTS status.
it could be 6 months or a year and might even be longer before this happens but I wont be at all shocked if or when it does.
all we can do is wait and see.
Sure but by then transfers could be a problem for PC gamers. Mainly because there's usually a limit on how many characters can be made available for PC, well this could be problem for people like me that have more than 8 toon's on their account.
Personally rather start with all my toons except it doesn't look like I will any time soon so I'd probably end up playing for Game-score but if transfers comes a thing then this could be a problem if my console doesn't have enough slots to transfer all my toon's, I'd rather the accounts be synced so I wouldn't need to worry about this. So in theory I'd have 1-3 console toon's and 12+ Pc toon's that could be played on either console or pc without the hassle of constantly asking the servers to transfer them.
Since Ps4, Xbox One are on separate servers then the 'transfer' server issue will probably be a problem since I would rather sync the toons across the platforms.
I am assuming that if they allow access at all it will be global in that you will be free to access your account and characters on any platform at any time just by logging in, if not that then at least you will be able to transfer your account lock stock and barrel including all of your characters as well as free slots you own, ships and gear and any ship & dry dock slots, bank slots, inventory slots and so on as well as any currency you have and of course any lifetime and subscription status you might have.
having said that I would not expect it to happen any time soon if ever, the best I think we can hope for realistically is for pc players to be able to play with console owners in story missions and queued missions and even that will be a good while coming.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Neverwinter is doing better on console then it ever did on PC. Cryptic is giving the game a fresh start for all the new people which is actually a very good choice, If you're playing on PC now there's no reason to stop.
Lots of people also see similar issues with lag and crashes from PC to Xbox in Neverwinter...far from perfect. It will make some needed cash in STO but not sure it will be a long term solution to have 2 broken systems.
Neverwinter is doing better on console then it ever did on PC....
Source?
Anyway, just to assume that's correct for now, that doesn't automatically translate it will do well for STO. Considering the fact that NW has been doing the console much earlier in its life, and is a completely different game, it's impossible to know until release what will come of this.
I'm certainly not against the idea and I do hope it does well and provides an additional revenue stream, but how well NW did on console is irrelevant.
Lots of people also see similar issues with lag and crashes from PC to Xbox in Neverwinter...far from perfect. It will make some needed cash in STO but not sure it will be a long term solution to have 2 broken systems.
92.5% sure there are going to be issue upon release.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
Comments
They don't?, have they read the forums lately?, many of us want to play on console, pc. It's ridiculous to assume PC gamers aren't also console gamers too. I have friends and family that don't care for playing on PC, the same for PC gamers that don't care for playing on Console, yet I'd rather play with both groups of friends. Right now there's over 300+ on STO Facebook liking comments about this query or worrying about their life-time membership on consoles, which show's there expectations are clearly wrong.
It be pretty crazy to assume PC gamers won't play on consoles too, it's going to split the community and cause a major backlash if the long term STO fans can't play with their accounts.
One of the biggest requests is cross-play, that's just an un-deniable fact that a majority of gamers have been asking for since Microsoft, Sony announced cross-play, as soon as STO on consoles was announced.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
This won't fly on the consoles. Sony and Microsoft have a vetting process for games and game updates. And it takes - according to some reports at least - about a month to go through that.
Do you want a monthly (or slower?) patch cycle? Do you want to wait a full month for any sudden and serious bugs to be fixed, instead of getting an emergency maintenance?
But beyond that:
What are Sony's and Microsoft's policies regarding in-game purchases / micro-transactions? Will they not want their share of it? Would they be happy if lots of players could just transfer their stuff without them getting their cut? Or would PWE be happy if they suddenly had to give away money that was already theirs to pay for the transfer?
Would it be fair to let loose hundreds or thousands of new players against a community of all the space rich that are accustomed to paying hundreds of millions EC to buy a lockbox ship from the Exchange?
Would it be fair if all those new people joined hte usual PvE queues and the fight was always over after a minute or two because some experienced DPS player was in the same queue, playing with keyboard shortcuts and mouse to reach a level of performance the console players would have neither the knowledge nor the input device for?
You might think - but that's how it is for every noob in STO! And that's a problem. Because that means the noob realizes how much he has to catch up - and he might just leave again.
Keep the consoles seperate from the PC version, and you keep all the problems at bay. The only ones that are losing out are people that want to switch or play with console owning friends. But... It only means you're not getting a direct benefit of this - you already played on the PC before, and you managed to do it without those console playing friends.
But you might still indirectly benefit - if the whole deal is a success, Cryptic might be able to afford making more content...
Thousands on the lockbox based on new users......that's always a problem with new users pop up, the difference is a large majority of gamers are also previous gamers.
PVE over in a minute?, I don't even see that on PC now...sure some do but that'll always be the case in some games.
1 noob going off the game does NOT mean the entire console base are the same. -_-
There is no direct benefit of no cross-play or no cross-toon's for me whatsoever. Yes I played it without console friends, yes I do gain a benefit from these features.......I like console gaming and I like playing with friends, removing my toons means if a friend is playing PS4 while I'm on X1 then I lose any chance of playing with friends who don't own the opposite console or pc. I like PC gaming at the moment for STO since means I can watch video's on the side or can play at work while console gaming at work isn't an option.
The difference is by alienating PC/Console cross-players it means that STO will end up as a game for most that will play it for game-score then move onto different games while including one of the most requested features will keep gamers playing in the long term.
Sure the dev's are going to want 'new' console gamers but how is that going to get them to keep playing?, if the other long term STO gamer friends are less interested in having their toons practically reset to nothing. I put a lot of time into the game so yes I'm going to be highly annoyed with this. Separate servers is a pretty bad idea, even confirming the cross-play idea alone would lead to a huge boost to player base since this would be one of the first big cross-overs that nobody has even tried yet.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
No toons? Frustrating, but I could maybe look past it and start a new Cpt. No toons or account unlocks? No thank you. I'll pass.
Heck I'd even be willing to pay for it. So much per account or per toon or something. But I will not start over.
Just my two cents.
Kind of same problem, it just seems like the only reason to bother is for game-score on the Xbox One or Trophies for Ps4.
Allowing toon transfers would have meant I could keep mining dilithium when I'm being asked to come on console by friends. Sure I like playing on PC but playing on the console meant I wouldn't need to stop what I was doing while I talked to friends on console/consoles.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
But really, they aren't looking at this as an advantage for them to get players they already have, they're looking at this to get players they DON'T already have. The console market is huge and an untapped market for STO. If they gain a substantial number of new players to the game, regardless of if we can play with them or not, it's an incredibly good thing for the game.
More players means more support for the game from PWI - who've already invested more money into the game to port it over to the consoles, because they see it as a great opportunity worth investing in.
But really, even though it's too early to tell on some of these concerns that are being brought up here - who knows, they may offer some incentives or bonuses for those PC players that want to give the console versions a try...we don't know yet - but again it's not about you. It's about expanding the overall player base.
I agree with that. I'm not trying to jump to conclusions here. I was merely reacting to the possibility. I'll continue to take a wait-and-see approach with all things Cryptic. I learned that from the hullabaloo around Delta Rising. I was one of the people upset about the whole T-5/6/U fiasco, but it turned out to be no big deal.
I am just making my position on the matter known. Not that my opinion matters more than anyone else's/at all, but I wanted to voice my concerns.
I think it's pretty obvious that there not looking at the PC gamers when it comes to consoles cross-play or toon transfer but it is a genuine concern that a fair amount of us are concerned about, it's better that the issue is known instead of it being shoved under the rug.
Obviously it should involve us PC gamers still since it's gamers like myself that gossip and encourage other gamers to get involved, this cross-play would have been the best thing for STO since it would mean gamers could unite.
In this community if anyone asked for Xbox One/Ps4 ports a year ago then they would have got flamed in these forums by 'Pc Elitist' before the announcement so it's hard to get a view across without the concern being ignored. Sure nothing is set in stone but it seems if people feel strong enough about it then it might just happen, it's part of the reason why I doubt we'll ever see a Borg faction since there doesn't seem to be enough demand for it any-more so it seems very unlikely to happen.
Anyone I do come off as quite vocal on this topic more than others but that's only because I enjoy playing the game, feel like lack of cross-play and toon transfer is limiting STO's potential, I've spent countless hours playing this game.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
ESO did it and aside from a bit of PvP shenanigans in the very begining it was fine. The console players who didnt start on PC eventually caught up with the PC Transfers about a month in. The only thing that would take time is obtaining the gear specific to the ship you want to fly and even that can be done in a relatively quick manner. Theyd also have the advantage of approaching the crafting system from the low levels where theyd be able to take advantage of upgrading the good gear from the get go. At this point theres nothing in the game a player cant approach with CStore purchases. Some of the best ships are there. And theres nothing about the Lockbox Ships that make them necessary over any others.
Im not even sure where you were going about microtransactions. As both Xbox and Playstaton have their own Stores filled with MTs for every game that supports that business model. ESO is B2P and has Crown (their version of Zen) Packages in 8 dollar, 15 dollar, 25 dollar and 40 dollar bundles. Who cares if MS or Sony are getting a cut. It doesnt reflect it on the player as its the same on PC as it is on console. And thats ontop of the opportunity to sub up with ESO on console for 15 dollars a month. Its doubtful console will see increased costs. Theyre already paying for access to the online aspects of the consoles.
A one-time transfer of anyone interested would of been fine and would not have impacted the console servers as adversely as you have come to think it would.
This choice of not doing transfers because of "starting fresh and being fair" is PR. The real reason behind it is that theres more than likely not enough interest on PC to warrant the cost and time spent making a transfer happen. They dont have this huge number of players demanding a transfer. So the few players that would transfer wouldnt even have an impact on the greater population that would probably almost never see them thanks to the instancing.
http://priorityonepodcast.com/po270/
If both console and PC versions of the game are different, then how does the game reconcile for the difference? Obviously, if something that has not been released yet for the console, then that content will not be available. That would mean PC STO players can have the upper hand if STO was a cross platform game. Case in point the console version will be released as of Season 11.5, but by then the Agents of Yesteryear will have already been released on the PC. There would be assets (like ships) and mechanics that are not available to the console players. Additionally, if certain mechanics were updated only in the STO PC, then the console version would be "dated".
For example, let's say within a couple of weeks after the console launch I was able to level up a captain to level 60 and STO is a cross platform game. I want to play PvP and I end up going against a PC PvPer. That person could be flying a T6 Eternal science ship whereas I am flying whatever T6 I decided to purchase. However, since AoY will not exist for console STO until 2017....
#1 - I will not be able to purchase the T6 Eternal myself. Not exactly a tactical disadvantage, but my choices of purchasable available starships is more limited.
#2 - More importantly... If AoY does not exist for the console until months later, then how would the console version have the assets to render the ship? The console version likely also does not have a database of the Eternal's abilities either.
#3 - Let's say that the STO PC has been patched to update Surgical Strike I from +20% accuracy and critical damage to +30%, but the console versions will not be getting that update until the next patch which could be up to 3 weeks away. A STO PC player would have an advantage over a STO console player in a PvP match.
===========================================
The natural solution to make sure both STO PC and STO Console are of the same version is to release patches / updated at the same time.
That's all well and good, but how many times have there been an update that caused a severe problem in the game that an emergency patch is necessary the next day? Under this circumstances the emergency patch would need to go through the validation process for both PS4 and Xbone. In order to maintain the same version across all platforms, the emergency PC patch cannot be implemented until the patches for the consoles have both been validated... which could take up to 4 weeks.
Some would argue that Cryptic needs to do more testing before releasing patches to check for bugs. However, it has been said that Cryptic is a small studio, so either they need to hire more people to beta test, or lengthen the time in between patch for more through testing. But how many people do they need to hire / how much time do they need to spend to catch all potential bugs in patches that are significant enough to may cause severe enough issues to warrant an emergency patch? I do not know the answer to that question, I merely posed it so that others can think about the issue especially since hiring more testers means higher expenses. Keep in mind that the cost of hiring a single employee is more than the cost of his / her salary. For example, the actual total expense to have someone on the payroll who earns an annual salary of $60k could be in the range of $75k to $80k as a result of the medical benefits and 401K related expenses. That excludes the initial recruiting costs. Sure there are volunteer beta testers trying out things on the Tribble server but how many of them are there and is that enough to find all the major bugs? Would the consoles have something similar to Tribble?
The console versions will likely always lag behind the STO for PC because Cryptic will likely want to see how new content and patches are working on the PC first (kinda like a litmus test) so that they can iron out the issues there before working on the consoles patches to make sure they do not cause game breaking issues that will have to wait up to another 4 weeks to be fixed.
Then how does Destiny do it?
I play Destiny pretty regularly (I know, I know) and have for a while. It's the only console game I play that gets patches/updates regularly. If they release a patch and something goes wrong or something gets broken by the patch it gets patched again and fixed within a week. Sometimes the very next day.
Why would it be different for STO? Why does it not take four weeks for Destiny? I'm not flaming I'm genuinely curious.
I don't know since STO is really the only MMO I play. It seems though that Destiny is one of the exceptions and not the norm.
Do you happen to know how many employees Bungie have compared to Cryptic in terms of developers, game testers, bug hunters, etc? Perhaps they can manage to have a cross platform game that is maintained on a regular basis due to the number of employees they have. I would assume Bungie has a rather large number of employees considering they have sold millions upon millions of copies of Halo 1 thru 3 and they have being hiring employees over time to work on Destiny as well as other IPs that have in the works.
According to Wikipedia, Bungie employs a total of 750 people in 2016. No such information is available for Cryptic Studio. Naturally, that number includes everyone such as the accounting department, human resources, janitors and the legal department. I would have to say that Cryptic Studio likely employs a lot less than 750 people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie
Getting back to STO, I am not saying that every single patch / update on the console will take 4 weeks. I only stated that according to Mary Rosseau the validation process can take up to 4 weeks.
I pretty sure that of course Bungie has a bigger staff and more resources. But the quote didn't say anything about "development" time, it referred to "validation" time. Irregardless of the time it takes to develop the patch the validation time should be comparable (all other things being equal. Patch size, scope etc). Right?
And please, don't take it personally. I'm not shooting the messenger or trying to flame you. I'm just trying to parse the information.
EDIT: I really don't care about cross-platform play necessarily, but am curious abut the dynamics of it and was just musing aloud about what you posted.
As stated in my original post, my main concern is character/account transfer. Even if it's for a limited time after launch, like ESO's was, I think we should be allowed to transfer our characters/accounts. I'd even be willing to pay a reasonable fee for it. Your first purchase would get you one character and your account unlocks, and then each subsequent purchase is one character only. We know STO already is capable of something similar with Holodeck and Tribble. I can transfer my character to Tribble and then my play on one doesn't affect the other. I hope Cryptic does something similar with consoles.
My concern is if there's no transfer at launch then it could lead to conflicting problems later on like in-game purchases missing and life-time members losing all their perks on console.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
it could be 6 months or a year and might even be longer before this happens but I wont be at all shocked if or when it does.
all we can do is wait and see.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
That's a good point. Especially when the population on all side decline after a while, it'd be a great way to provide a artificial population boom.
Yep, the validation period excludes development time for the content / patch updates. Presumable a small change or "quick fix" like an emergency patch should not take very long to validate. Though I am sure it must go into a queue with other patches / updates that requires validation.
Yeah, superficially it would seem to be technically possible. In a simplistic point of it is only a matter of porting information from the "PC database" to the "Console database". Perhaps the format of the data needs to be updated. Plus the data for assets that does not exist and will never exist in the console version will be deleted. Additionally, assets that do not exist yet in the console version simply exist as a placeholder until the console versions catches up to the PC version of STO.
For example, it is unlike that the Risan Summer Event ships will exist in the console version of STO. They are now "exclusive" and can no longer be obtained by anyone. That allows Cryptic to streamline the console version of the game. If you have those ships and then decide to transfer your account to the PS4 you would loose those event ships. Now the solution to that problem is for Cryptic to keep those ship assets in the console version. But since the console version of STO is meant to draw new blood into the game, it is unlikely Cryptic will have "obsolete" assets in the console versions.
Additionally, if you create a AoY character and / or purchased any of the yet to be released TOS starship when the expansion goes live on PC and then transfer your account to the PS4 prior to 2017, then your account will have assets that would not be currently available on the console. Those assets would need to be temporarily disabled on your account until the consoles get AoY... and hopefully those assets do not accidentally get deleted.
While I have not listened to the most recent Priority One Podcast interview with Steve "Salami_Inferno" Ricossa, Executive Producerof STO, apparently he stated that making STO a cross platform game sometime in the future is a "possibility".
Sure but by then transfers could be a problem for PC gamers. Mainly because there's usually a limit on how many characters can be made available for PC, well this could be problem for people like me that have more than 8 toon's on their account.
Personally rather start with all my toons except it doesn't look like I will any time soon so I'd probably end up playing for Game-score but if transfers comes a thing then this could be a problem if my console doesn't have enough slots to transfer all my toon's, I'd rather the accounts be synced so I wouldn't need to worry about this. So in theory I'd have 1-3 console toon's and 12+ Pc toon's that could be played on either console or pc without the hassle of constantly asking the servers to transfer them.
Since Ps4, Xbox One are on separate servers then the 'transfer' server issue will probably be a problem since I would rather sync the toons across the platforms.
My ultimate Doom open world mod:
http://www.moddb.com/games/doom-compile-project
I am assuming that if they allow access at all it will be global in that you will be free to access your account and characters on any platform at any time just by logging in, if not that then at least you will be able to transfer your account lock stock and barrel including all of your characters as well as free slots you own, ships and gear and any ship & dry dock slots, bank slots, inventory slots and so on as well as any currency you have and of course any lifetime and subscription status you might have.
having said that I would not expect it to happen any time soon if ever, the best I think we can hope for realistically is for pc players to be able to play with console owners in story missions and queued missions and even that will be a good while coming.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1215301/no-foundry-for-sto-console-version
over 3000 hours on my cheap PC even though I prefer console, I guess I won't be playing console version even though I reallllly want to
Source?
Anyway, just to assume that's correct for now, that doesn't automatically translate it will do well for STO. Considering the fact that NW has been doing the console much earlier in its life, and is a completely different game, it's impossible to know until release what will come of this.
I'm certainly not against the idea and I do hope it does well and provides an additional revenue stream, but how well NW did on console is irrelevant.
92.5% sure there are going to be issue upon release.
with cross platform we coudl finally paly together again