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In honor of TOS: Captain rank cap

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  • sharpie65sharpie65 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    Unless of course it turns out to not be a faction, but we'll wait and see about that.
    MXeSfqV.jpg
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    ashrod63 wrote: »
    farshore wrote: »
    You folks need to understand that Admiral is just a rank. It is not a specific job. An Admiral can do many things, not even specifically related to the command of ships. There are admirals that deal in communications, logistics, special forces. We're fleet admirals who's job it is to represent and generally kick TRIBBLE. If anyone tries to pull rank on us while we're doing our job, we're basically covered.

    Of course they can, but that doesn't change the fact we know how things worked in the Starfleet of the 2270s and that Admirals were not normally serving as commanding officers, they were dealing with things like logistics, special forces, paperwork, etc.

    In 2410 things are different of course, but if we become an Admiral in 2270 and still fly around in a ship it breaks the canon of the show and movies, because Kirk would have just pointed our captain out in the movies, which he obviously didn't do.

    Not really. People seem to forget that Commodore is a flag rank and translates to a one star admiral. Matt Decker was a Commodore and commanded the Constellation.

    Also there is Captain rank and Captain position. Anyone that is the commanding officer of a ship...even if they aren't the rank of Captain are referred to as Captain.
    It should be noted that in WOK there was no need to "demote Kirk to Captain" nor demote Spock to Commander when Kirk took command.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • tigrovaya13akulatigrovaya13akula Member Posts: 151 Arc User
    While I agree with the OP, as a USN Submarine veteran I feel the need to clarify that Rank and Titles are two SEPARATE things.

    The Commanding Officer of a ship, regardless of his actual rank is THE CAPTAIN (aka The Skipper/Charlie Oscar/the CO).

    For an IRL ocean-going Tug Boat (for example) CO's rank: E-8 to E-9 (Senior Chief to Master Chief Petty Officer) Title: CAPTAIN.
    Yes, even for an Enlisted Non-commissioned Officer, whom is the CO of a vessel, his title is The Captain.

    Frigate and Destroyer CO's often commanded by an 0-3 to 0-4 (Lieutenant or Lt. Commander), his title: Captain.

    Cruiser and Submarine CO's (an 0-5) rank Commander, title Captain.

    Aircraft Carrier and Submarine Squadron (4 to 8 submarines) CO, rank Captain, title for the CVN Captain; title for the Sub Squadron CO, Commodore.

    Battle Group Commander (stationed on the Carrier) rank (0-7 to 0-8) Rear Admiral Lower Half (1-Star) to Rear Adm. Upper Half (2-Star). Same ranks & titles for Submarine Group Commander (3+ Submarine Squadrons).

    Commander Submarine (Forces) Atlantic or Pacific; rank and title 0-9 Vice Admiral (3-Star).

    Commander of a Fleet (Naval Forces Atlantic or CINCLANTFLT / CINCPACFLT; an 0-10 (4-Star) rank & title Admiral. Also for the CNO (Chief of Naval Operations.

    During WW2 & up until the Korean War, Fleet Admiral (0-11) a 5-Star Flag Officer. Admiral Nimitz and Generals Mac Arthur & Eisenhower and General Pershing (USAF) were each 5-Star Flag Officers.

    So in summary, Admirals are in overall command of multiple ships Simultaneously (NOT just 1 ship at a time like in this game/ the Admiralty DOFF system notwithstanding).

    Likewise, Generals are in command of an entire Army or a Battalion, which is comprised of a number of Regiments, Companies, Platoons and Squads.

    So, in terms of practicality, our characters' Ranks & Titles should not exceed 0-6, a Captain or for the KDF & Rom's, their equivalents for a Captain or a Colonel.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2016
    I wonder if anybody told Admiral Hanson (in FC), Fleet Admiral Ross, Commadore Decker etc. That they can't command a ship and should be rank capped at captain.

    As long as those people exist, I will continue to be a Fleet Admiral in my ship.

    The only example of a Admiral assumin he had to rank cap himself was Kirk in TMP and I'm almost certain that was just to pi$$ off Decker by demoting him to Commander.

    There are bigger problems with the current rank structure like all the missing ranks including Commodore (due to spliting Rear Admiral in two half levels as though Starfleet is the US Navy) and a few of the lower officer ranks.

    Edit: Really? Is the Mothers Union writing the censor filter on here? How many easily offended five year olds do we have around here anyway?
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • bloctoadbloctoad Member Posts: 660 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Pretty sure the Dahar Masters will object.

    It's just silly running around with that many Fleet Admiralsand Dahar Masters. Officers of our rank should have our own desk at HQ ordering others to mine rocks and ferry colonists.
    Jack Emmert: "Starfleet and Klingon. ... So two factions, full PvE content."
    Al Rivera hates Klingons
    Star Trek Online: Agents of Jack Emmert
    All cloaks should be canon.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    I wonder if anybody told Admiral Hanson (in FC), Fleet Admiral Ross, Commadore Decker etc. That they can't command a ship and should be rank capped at captain.

    As long as those people exist, I will continue to be a Fleet Admiral in my ship.

    The only example of a Admiral assumin he had to rank cap himself was Kirk in TMP and I'm almost certain that was just to pi$$ off Decker by demoting him to Commander.

    There are bigger problems with the current rank structure like all the missing ranks including Commodore (due to spliting Rear Admiral in two half levels as though Starfleet is the US Navy) and a few of the lower officer ranks.

    Edit: Really? Is the Mothers Union writing the censor filter on here? How many easily offended five year olds do we have around here anyway?

    People tend to forget that we have been commanding fleets...aka sending ships that we own on missions.
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    (...)
    Edit: Really? Is the Mothers Union writing the censor filter on here? How many easily offended five year olds do we have around here anyway?

    I think the five year olds are the last to be offended about "no-no" words, it's everyone around them making a fool out of themselves pig-2.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    you forget even Kirk made Admiral in the ToS movies

    One of the longstanding themes that Kirk represented in those movies was that Admiral was a desk job and that Captain was where the action was. It's why a later post in the thread suggests Captain (demoted).

    I'm pretty sure the OP is very much aware of Kirk as an Admiral in the movies. However briefly Kirk was that rank.

    Kirk was an Admiral for 4 of the of the 6 ToS movies plus whatever time might have passed in between movies and was not demoted back to captain until about the last 10 minutes of the 4th movie, i would hardly class that as a brief amount of time and during those 4 movies I think Kirk proved that the Admiral rank was far from being a desk job if you didn't want it to be in fact for the best part of his career as Admiral he spent a substantial amount of time captaining a starship.

    to get the rank Captain (demoted) there would need to be some thing in the story line to cause your captain to be demoted and personally I would rather my character had a spotless career.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    Afraid it wont fly, Kirk commanded the Enterprise when he was an Admiral although he trod on Captain Decker's toes to do it. Try explain that away as far as commanding a ship while an Admiral.

    In addition Commodore Decker also had command of a ship. Any Commodore or Rear Admiral or above can be a flag officer in Starfleet, specific Captains can give the orders to a battle group, however only a flag officer can interpret those orders and give them to the fleet.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    plus whatever time might have passed in between movies

    I highly recommend (because it's fun) we both go back and rewatch those movies to get a much clearer grasp on how much time passes between the end of Wrath of Khan and the end of The Voyage Home. It's shocking how little time that is.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • isthisscienceisthisscience Member Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    If they were starting from scratch, captain should have been the top rank. But I don't think they can reduce it now, even for one faction. It would be fun to give a nod to Kirk to one day to a "finale" episode where Quinn had died and you're going to take his job at ESD whether you are keen on it or not. Then you do something stupid but awesome, they demote you to captain and you warp off into the sunset. End of story.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    reyan01 wrote: »
    assuming the rank of captain for the duration of the mission"

    that one word states volumes more than what you wrote.

    anyone can be called the "captain" of a ship when they command it, even ensign nog if the main officers were knocked out.

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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    If they were starting from scratch, captain should have been the top rank.

    Why? We've established admirals command starships and we're performing acts that earn us a rank far beyond Captain.

    What they should do is give an option to let people suspend earning XP at captain level so they can be stuck in T3 ships with their low rank forever.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 3,007 Arc User
    and when he assumed command in WOK why didn't he change rank?
    Your pain runs deep.
    Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Except that he wore Captain rank/uniform

    May have been an oversight, it wouldnt be the first oversight seen in sci fi. i wondered if that was explained off screen because kirk was established as an admiral on screen and was an admiral until after film 4 about the whales. it is also heavily implied when chatting to decker that decker mentioned to kirk that kirk is pulling rank to get the ship. in addition he was mentioned several times through a few films to be known as "Admiral".
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  • ashrod63ashrod63 Member Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    khan5000 wrote: »
    Not really. People seem to forget that Commodore is a flag rank and translates to a one star admiral. Matt Decker was a Commodore and commanded the Constellation.

    Also there is Captain rank and Captain position. Anyone that is the commanding officer of a ship...even if they aren't the rank of Captain are referred to as Captain.
    It should be noted that in WOK there was no need to "demote Kirk to Captain" nor demote Spock to Commander when Kirk took command.

    The issue isn't whether it would be possible, it certainly would be and is (see our own captains/admirals in 2410). The problem is should we in 2270 be doing this, given what Kirk is going to do in 2272/73 (they weren't too specific on dates, just two and a half years) and then again a decade later.

    That's why Commodore isn't such an issue, because Kirk was up at Admiral so there's no clash.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    TMP is the anomaly and the only instance where somebody is demoted to the rank of captain to fulfil the function of captain. Like Romulans not having warp drive in 'Balance of Terror', simply ignore it and focus on the many more example of where that was not the case.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    TWOK onward he was never 'officially' the Enterprise's commanding officer:

    TWOK: Whilst he was an Admiral, he wasn't the Enterprise's commanding officer - Captain Spock was. He was aboard the Enterprise to observe the Cadet training cruise. Captain Spock deferred to him due to their friendship and the fact that the circumstances (ship crewed by Cadets) were far from ideal.

    TSfS: He stole the Enterprise. That doesn't count.

    Twok counts because he took command of the ship and was allowed to despite the training cruise and lead the mission and despite what Spock may have said, he had command rank.

    TSfS counts because as an admiral he used his position to steal the enterprise and commandeer crew members under his watch and further a laundry list of charges put against the rank as an admiral in command of a starship he stole.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    Afraid it wont fly, Kirk commanded the Enterprise when he was an Admiral although he trod on Captain Decker's toes to do it. Try explain that away as far as commanding a ship while an Admiral.

    In addition Commodore Decker also had command of a ship. Any Commodore or Rear Admiral or above can be a flag officer in Starfleet, specific Captains can give the orders to a battle group, however only a flag officer can interpret those orders and give them to the fleet.

    quite true Kirk did step on Deckers toes this was indeed when Kirk temporarily downgraded Decker's position to executive officer and his rank from captain to commander so Kirk could captain the ship for the first movie and Kirk stayed on captaining the ship all the way through "the wrath of khan" and right up until it was set to self destruct towards the end of "the search for spock" and shortly after took command of the Klingon bird of prey as its captain and retained that position right up until the tail end of "the voyage home".
    that's a fair bit of captaining for an Admiral IMO and about as far from being a "desk job" as you can get.
    in fact if star fleet had agreed for Kirk to return to genesis he would have retained his rank as Admiral right up to his disappearance in "Generations" and done a fair bit more captaining at that rank, at least through the next 2 movies "The Final Frontier" & "The Undiscovered Country" for sure.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • tigrovaya13akulatigrovaya13akula Member Posts: 151 Arc User
    A VERY interesting discussion with this thread so far; first kudos to the OP for creating it.

    Some points to ponder

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval)

    "Any naval officer who commands a ship is addressed by naval custom as "captain" while aboard in command, regardless of their actual rank, even though technically an officer of below the rank of captain is more correctly titled the commanding officer, or C.O."

    "On large US ships (e.g., aircraft carriers), the executive officer (XO) may be a captain in rank, in which case it would be proper to address him by rank. Often the XO prefers to be called "XO" to avoid confusion with the CO, who is also a captain in rank and the captain of the ship."

    https://reddit.com/r/Militaryfaq/comments/3grhzo/if_a_ship_is_carrying_an_admiral_does_the_captain/

    from @myrandomname (from reddit)

    "I have spent a fair amount of time on ships.

    It depends on the flag officers role. For instance, when we deployed as an amphibious ready group (ARG, 3 ships total), the ARG commander was on our ship. He was commander of the ARG, he made decisions and gave orders to the ARG to accomplish the mission, the individual captains gave orders to their ships to accomplishs the ARG commander's mission objectives. The ARG commander does'nt get involved in the day to day of the ships, and he wouldnt want to either.
    If the flag officer is just along for the ride, like a VIP, and has no place in the chain of command, he does'nt have anything to do with the ship or the way the captain runs it. In extreme examples of misconduct or deriliction of duty he could try to assert command but I would think the ships XO would take over first.

    Command at sea is a big deal."
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    A VERY interesting discussion with this thread so far; first kudos to the OP for creating it.

    Some points to ponder

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval)

    "Any naval officer who commands a ship is addressed by naval custom as "captain" while aboard in command, regardless of their actual rank, even though technically an officer of below the rank of captain is more correctly titled the commanding officer, or C.O."

    "On large US ships (e.g., aircraft carriers), the executive officer (XO) may be a captain in rank, in which case it would be proper to address him by rank. Often the XO prefers to be called "XO" to avoid confusion with the CO, who is also a captain in rank and the captain of the ship."

    https://reddit.com/r/Militaryfaq/comments/3grhzo/if_a_ship_is_carrying_an_admiral_does_the_captain/

    from @myrandomname (from reddit)

    "I have spent a fair amount of time on ships.

    It depends on the flag officers role. For instance, when we deployed as an amphibious ready group (ARG, 3 ships total), the ARG commander was on our ship. He was commander of the ARG, he made decisions and gave orders to the ARG to accomplish the mission, the individual captains gave orders to their ships to accomplishs the ARG commander's mission objectives. The ARG commander does'nt get involved in the day to day of the ships, and he wouldnt want to either.
    If the flag officer is just along for the ride, like a VIP, and has no place in the chain of command, he does'nt have anything to do with the ship or the way the captain runs it. In extreme examples of misconduct or deriliction of duty he could try to assert command but I would think the ships XO would take over first.

    Command at sea is a big deal."

    Also remember that Starfleet is not the US Navy.

    They have a huge portion of officers and crewmen with a tiny number of NCOs, still use the rank of Commodore, rarely (or never) have ranks lower than captain commanding starships, and is not a military.

    Using the US Navy to infer information about Starfleet (created by a member of the US air force no less and based on the 17th century Royal Navy) is futile.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,626 Arc User
    edited May 2016
    We're talking about The Original Series here guys with the upcoming Agents of Yesterday expansion, not the movies.

    Although while on the subject, when the movies were still in Roddenbury's hands (TMP) the subject of Kirk taking command of the Enterprise as a Captain (the rank he wore on screen) while displacing (and temporarily demoting) Decker to Commander is obvious. It was only later that other's in charge of the films let him command (though never in a PERMANENT capacity) as an admiral and even then he continued to lament the fact he was an admiral until they finally 'busted' him down to Captain again as a reward for his heroics.

    As for the people who say 'just roleplay being a Captain', it's pretty hard to do when it's hard wired into the system for every NPC to address you as "Fleet Admiral". I really don't think 'Fleet Admiral Kirk' would've worked too well in The Original Series. :tongue:
    Post edited by captainhunter1 on
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    A VERY interesting discussion with this thread so far; first kudos to the OP for creating it.

    Some points to ponder

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(naval)

    "Any naval officer who commands a ship is addressed by naval custom as "captain" while aboard in command, regardless of their actual rank, even though technically an officer of below the rank of captain is more correctly titled the commanding officer, or C.O."

    "On large US ships (e.g., aircraft carriers), the executive officer (XO) may be a captain in rank, in which case it would be proper to address him by rank. Often the XO prefers to be called "XO" to avoid confusion with the CO, who is also a captain in rank and the captain of the ship."

    https://reddit.com/r/Militaryfaq/comments/3grhzo/if_a_ship_is_carrying_an_admiral_does_the_captain/

    from @myrandomname (from reddit)

    "I have spent a fair amount of time on ships.

    It depends on the flag officers role. For instance, when we deployed as an amphibious ready group (ARG, 3 ships total), the ARG commander was on our ship. He was commander of the ARG, he made decisions and gave orders to the ARG to accomplish the mission, the individual captains gave orders to their ships to accomplishs the ARG commander's mission objectives. The ARG commander does'nt get involved in the day to day of the ships, and he wouldnt want to either.
    If the flag officer is just along for the ride, like a VIP, and has no place in the chain of command, he does'nt have anything to do with the ship or the way the captain runs it. In extreme examples of misconduct or deriliction of duty he could try to assert command but I would think the ships XO would take over first.

    Command at sea is a big deal."

    Also remember that Starfleet is not the US Navy.

    They have a huge portion of officers and crewmen with a tiny number of NCOs, still use the rank of Commodore, rarely (or never) have ranks lower than captain commanding starships, and is not a military.

    Using the US Navy to infer information about Starfleet (created by a member of the US air force no less and based on the 17th century Royal Navy) is futile.​​

    add to that, some of the constitution class ships were named after warships of different nations including the british royal navy.

    USS Hood - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood
    USS Kongo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Kongō
    USS Potemkin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_battleship_Potemkin
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    The bitterness of some on these Forum Threads about this Expansion may assure that some players will end up being a Captain Dunsel instead.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Pretty sure the Dahar Masters will object.

    Not really - Dahar Master should not be a KDF rank. What it is is a term that denotes someone is a supreme warrior in the eyes of his or her fellow Klingons - it is not in any sense an equivalent to an admiral.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    An Honorific as Fleet Admiral really is as well.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited May 2016
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Uh. Commander Kirk (1st year TOS), Commander Sisko, and Lieutenant Commander Jadzia Dax would like to have a word with you.

    No Kirk was a captain in TOS all the way through. Sisko was in command of a station, not a starship and Dax was never commander of any ship until late into the war when they were running out of captains (roundabout the time they made Nog an ensign). Dax wasn't even the Defiant's XO, that was Worf (Kira was the station's XO)
    ltminns wrote: »
    An Honorific as Fleet Admiral really is as well.

    Fleet Admiral is a rank, there's several in Starfleet, each commanding a fleet from a certain sector. Not really like a Dahar Master at all (especially as the KDF actually has Fleet Admirals)​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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