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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

language question

sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
edited April 2016 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
first of all, my language is french and I play the game in english (it helps to improve my english and i'm in a canadian fleet). And sometimes i'm surprised to see french words used in game, then there are english words to tell the same thing:

for example: in the last FE : "it's about to commence" why not "it is about to begin"?
or in an other mission : the expression "en route" is used.

my question is: why? (just simple curiosity :p)

Comments

  • narthaisnarthais Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Mostly becuase English is an amalgamation of several languages, it has outright stolen a number of french, german, saxon and a host of other words from other laugagues over the years including they examples you gave. Commence for example is considered an english word, it was just ripped from French originally, en route and rendezvous are also regularly used in english. theres plenty from other european laungages as well.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 903 Arc User
    I once heard a joke that went something like 'English is the type of language that mug other languages in back alleys and rifle their pockets for spare words and grammar' and that's why English is such a confusing mess.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Remember that for centuries French had been the language of the elite in Europe, spoken in courts and government offices. French was also a fashionable language among the powerful and wealthy from Paris to Moscow. German still has a huge amount of French loanwords as well.

    Or in other words, French used be what English is today. A language which constantly inserts words into other country's everyday language.
  • guljarolguljarol Member Posts: 980 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    I once heard a joke that went something like 'English is the type of language that mug other languages in back alleys and rifle their pockets for spare words and grammar' and that's why English is such a confusing mess.

    Love it! :smiley:​​
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    yes, there are also a lot of english words used in the french language. but none of them replaces an existing word or these words are very frenchified. we don't use "begin" , not yet :p .

    At least this FE will have been interesting for 1 thing, I learnt a new thing about the english language (my favorite even if I don't speak this language fluently)
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    I once heard a joke that went something like 'English is the type of language that mug other languages in back alleys and rifle their pockets for spare words and grammar' and that's why English is such a confusing mess.

    From what I've read many countries actually use English words to express themselves as there is no equivalent word in their own language as English has a much larger number of words than Germanic or 'romance' languages. Even China has adopted a great number of English words into it's language.

    So I would not say English is a 'thief' of languages, rather it was far more open to integrating foreign words that other languages around at the time it evolved.

    And as highlighted above, you can see that many languages borrow from English and vice versa. All languages are constantly evolving so its a good thing when they borrow words from each other.
  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,503 Arc User
    sennahcherib wrote: »
    yes, there are also a lot of english words used in the french language. but none of them replaces an existing word or these words are very frenchified. we don't use "begin" , not yet :p .

    At least this FE will have been interesting for 1 thing, I learnt a new thing about the english language (my favorite even if I don't speak this language fluently)

    The problem is you can't really compare French to other European languages when it comes to adopting foreign words into their own vocabulary.

    As far as I know, the French are the only nation in the world who have founded an academy whose sole purpose it is to harmonize and preserve the French language (Académie française). This academy is the official authority on the French language, tasked with finding a corresponding French word to every new foreign word created thus making French quite rigid to exterior influences.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    yes, I know but the "académie française" can't be behind each person. for example, if we follow their instructions, we shouldn't use "email" but "courriel"; and excepted a minority; most of us use "email" etc.

    I do not understand this mentality of wanting to separate a language from the foreign influence, if a language stops to evolve then this language dies.

    btw, the government of Quebec is more rigid than the "acédemie française". :p
  • shevetshevet Member Posts: 1,667 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    I once heard a joke that went something like 'English is the type of language that mug other languages in back alleys and rifle their pockets for spare words and grammar' and that's why English is such a confusing mess.
    That's SF reviewer James Davis Nicoll, on Usenet sometime in 1990: "We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

    (Nicoll is famous for this, and for being bizarrely accident prone.)

    People have tried, and failed, to hold all sorts of languages in a static mould... the Académie Française is just one of a long line of failures in this respect.

    8b6YIel.png?1
  • equinox976equinox976 Member Posts: 2,305 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    shevet wrote: »
    People have tried, and failed, to hold all sorts of languages in a static mould... the Académie Française is just one of a long line of failures in this respect.

    Académie Française is pretty much an antithesis of what language 'is' an ever evolving and organic way in which to communicate.

    Even most of France's population think the whole thing is a complete waste of time (and money); especially because French (as with all other languages) is a combination of a huge variety of the languages that preceded it.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    Even most of France's population think the whole thing is a complete waste of time (and money); especially because French (as with all other languages) is a combination of a huge variety of the languages that preceded it.

    indeed. there are a lot of words from other languages: turkish, arab, german, english, dutch, italian, spanish, portuguese, etc ; but few from the language of my grandparents, language which is in the french frontier.

  • sleel43sleel43 Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    I once heard a joke that went something like 'English is the type of language that mug other languages in back alleys and rifle their pockets for spare words and grammar' and that's why English is such a confusing mess.

    Bare bones. The full line is: English doesn't so much borrow from other languages, as it follows them down dark alleys, knocks them over, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.

    Also, the amount of French in English is greatly attributable to William the Conqueror. After he took over England the language of the court was French for quite a long time. Lotta mish mashing gonna happen there.
  • cabezadetortugacabezadetortuga Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    szim wrote: »

    The problem is you can't really compare French to other European languages when it comes to adopting foreign words into their own vocabulary.

    As far as I know, the French are the only nation in the world who have founded an academy whose sole purpose it is to harmonize and preserve the French language (Académie française). This academy is the official authority on the French language, tasked with finding a corresponding French word to every new foreign word created thus making French quite rigid to exterior influences.

    Actually, Spanish has the Real Academia Española which is also affiliated with the national language academies of twenty-one Spanish speaking countries.

  • lopequillopequil Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    As people have said earlier, English borrows a lot of words and even phrases from other languages, but the door swings both ways. There are a few words in English that don't have a foreign language equivalent. "Serendipity" is a good one: it means good luck in finding something unexpected, usually when looking for something else. Ever had your hands down the back of the sofa looking for your keys only to find a €20 note?
    Q9BWcdD.png
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    I once heard a joke that went something like 'English is the type of language that mug other languages in back alleys and rifle their pockets for spare words and grammar' and that's why English is such a confusing mess.

    Yes but oh so flexible to accomodate new terms and is still a growing and expanding language while others stay fairly static.
  • norobladnoroblad Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    edited April 2016
    Its a combination of things. French and english do share a latin root, and some words are nearly the same or can be figured out by spelling.

    Commence is pretty much an english word. Its been in there a long, long time.
    En route is borrowed --- to be pulled fully into the language it would become in route. Route is also an english word now, been in the language for ages, but en is unseen outside of prefixes (there are many, many en words like enlist, ensue, entrap, ..)

    I am not a master of word origins so I couldnt say if these two were pulled from french or are just latin root words that evolved into both. Im sure a web search could tell you.

    Being the screwed up language that it is, if you were German you would also recognize words, as english is a mix of latin and germanic roots blended with tons of other influences.

  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    in fact most of all the european languages share a common origin : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages

    Like i'm fascinated by the History, i'm also interested by the languages and their evolutions. But i'm not a specialist, and it is always interesting to have the views of the users of these languages. so, thx :)
  • dlmc85dlmc85 Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    Nope, it's not only the french; in Italy we have the "Accademia della crusca" with the same purpose. Since 1585, yes they copied that from us ;)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    sennahcherib wrote: »
    Even most of France's population think the whole thing is a complete waste of time (and money); especially because French (as with all other languages) is a combination of a huge variety of the languages that preceded it.
    indeed. there are a lot of words from other languages: turkish, arab, german, english, dutch, italian, spanish, portuguese, etc ; but few from the language of my grandparents, language which is in the french frontier.
    Chocolate is actually derived from a word from a Central American language called Nahuatl. (chili, avocado, coyote, axolotl, and tomato also are)

    fun fact: Nahuatl is still spoken by enough people that the Mexican government recognizes it for official paperwork.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    Axolotl tanks for all!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Ummm.... an Axolotl is a kind of salamander. :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Axlotl_Tanks
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    Oh, they're named after the salamander. :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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