I started fitting my Fleet Arbiter with Canon equipment and have a few questions for how to get the most DPS out of it (disclamer:
Canon build is still priority no1, so the weapon setup won't be changed!)
My questions are: 1. Skills: Have I choosen the correct skills? What should I change?
2. Gear: Is there any reputation/C-store/etc. gear I am missing/should be using?
2.1. Tactical Consoles: How many should focus on Energy/Torpedo-damage? On all my other builds I'm running Beamboats, so I have still equiped the ones increasing Phaser damage
3. BOffs: Right/wrong abilities? (This is the first time I'm flying a ship with Intel-seating)
4. Other: Any Doffs I should use? Power level settings? Other points not mentioned above?
I hope you can help me out, my current build can be found here:
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/4da706918019716172b9678d9b436935
Thanks for your attention
Comments
Hopefully some of the dark lords of DPS theorycrafting will be along to provide guidance. I'm curious to hear their input myself.
But thanks for your goodwill
The science skills you choose also seem odd to me. Getting all 3 ranks in Shield Capacity and Shield Restoration seems excessive. The 3rd point in any given skill is rarely worth it. (Just like ranks 7-9 wer usually not worth it in the old skill system). Personally I wouldn't even take 3 full picks in the weapon training skills, but I guess that a lot of people do that and I am not going to argue with them about it.
I would also definitely not take 3 (or even more than one) pick in Shield Regeneration. You are likely to get a lot more healing from shield healing abilties then you get from that regeneration overall, so boosting it is not that awesome.
I am also surprised that you didn't seem to have picked any skills that boost your energy levels. Getting your weapon power to max on an energy weapon-based build is always a good idea, and if you use an [Amp] Warp Core, you can also benefit a lot from the rest.
That's just for a start.
*) Or if you're talking about really a "canon" build - you can't make a canon build for the Arbiter, since it's not a canon ship and we don't know what weapons it is "supposed" to carry. That pretty much leaves only the general guideline that pretty much every ship has energy weapon and torpedoes. If we go by something like the Defiant as an example for a "warship" with cannons, you might indeed put some beams in the back. If you want to match the usual "canon aesthetics" closer, I'd probably suggest something like 3 DHCs + 1 DBB +1 Torpedo in the front, and 2 Beams and a Torpedo in the back. It's not ideal, I think, but still neat enough.
Oh, ha ha ha ha . So I see.
That's a lot of torpedos!
With that many torpedoes you might want a ferrofluid hydraulic assembly console (from Terran rep) for the reduced shared cooldown between torpedoes.
Money and interest permitting, you might want to equip is with a universal cloak console. Its sort of a big deal that it can mount one.
Yes, sadly there is no "real" Arbiter canon, so I went for what seemed logical to me: A lot of Torpedos (Photon and Quantum), one Phaser Beam Array fore and one aft (more would be definitely too much, compared to how many beams the standard cruisers in "Star Trek" fire). And as she is a Battlecruiser I wanted to go with at least one DHC (I'll have to look if 2 or even 3, as you would suggest, are optically too much).
All my Science Vessels are pretty much torpedo boats, but on a Battlecruiser, I don't know howit could work. You have too many weapon slots and too many shared cooldowns. Torpedo Buffs only buff a single launcher, not all of them. The only exception would be Kemocite Laced Weaponry, I suppose.
I think dialing the torpedoes down a bit (but using powerful or useful ones like Quantum Phase Torpedoes, Plasma Emission Torpedoes, Neutronic Torpedoes, Terran Torpedoes or Gravimetric Torpedoes) and adding more DHCs or beams seem like a safer bet.
But if you stay with lots of torpedoes, consider that you don'T really benefit much from Long Range Targeting Sensors - torpedoes deal the same damage at any range. The Ferrofluid Hydraulic Assembly is a better bet there.
And if you go for "speciality torpedoes" - I am not 100 % sure any more, but I believe some of their secondary effects are buffed by Exotic Particle Generators, Drain Expertise or Control Expertise. Not enough to warrant maxing them, but the firstpick already gives you a lot. And if you do that, you might also add some science powers like Destabilizing Resonance Beam or Gravity Well to the mix. (Then it's kinda like build a torpedo science vessels.)
What I would do is to equip the quad cannons or one DHC and a DC up front as well as two quantum torpedoes. Fifth forward weapon could be a DBB or beam array. Aft I'd go for a omni-directional beam array, a photon torpedo and maybe mines - since the Arbiter isn't a canon ship you can build it more diverse, mines have been used and make sense for a ship like this. You could however also think about a tricobalt device.
To maximize your damage while using such a diverse array of weapons you should however stick to an all phaser console layout. The extra torpedo damage consoles, at least according to my testing, aren't worth it if you still heavily use energy weapons. torpedoes on bare hull will hurt with or without damage consoles and torpedoes on shields will do exactly nothing, with or without damage consoles.
For abilities, rapid fire, torpedo high yield and spread are in order. Tractor beam as well as the three teams as well, everything more than that needs a bit of headcanon to work as we never had anyone using "hazard emitters" or the like. If you use emergency power to weapons and directed energy modulation you'd want to go for either a beam overload or rapid fire in your mix. Generally, think about what the ship's primary purpose is in combat - groups or single targets?
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It's amusing to me when people argue "canon" versus non-canon when it comes to this game. Take for example, the Scimitar...
52 disruptor banks, 27 photo torpedo tubes, yada yada.
Game balance, anyone?
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I have to agree with the majority of posters that it's difficult to set up a 'canon' build on a non canon ship. Personally, I always pictured the Avenger/Arbiter to be closer to a Defiant type ship then your traditional cruiser. Obviously, it's a larger ship then the Defiant, but I definitely see it as a 'Warship' and would likely be geared differently then a similar sized ship like an Intrepid Class. When you watch the show, the battle scenes don't accurately show the ships weapon compliment. The Intrepid for example had 8 Phaser Banks (4 Saucer, 2 Aft, 2 Lower) and that's on a ship not really designed for heavy engagement. Your ship would more then likely have more phaser cannons/banks then torpedo launchers. If you're trying to replicate an on screen Starfleet style ship, then you wouldn't have that many torpedo's, your layout is excessive even for a Defiant Class. Of course, you can't represent the layout on a 1:1 basis since the max weapon points on any ship in STO is 8 total, so you just have to approximate.
The first thing you really need to do is settle on a weapon type for your 'main weapon.' You should choose between Single Beam Arrays, Dual Beam Arrays, or Cannons. Supplement that choice by mixing in your torpedo launchers. As said above, 1 forward and 1 aft is more then sufficient. If you want to give it more of that 'Defiant' feel, then you would probably roll with 4 DHC's in front with a Torp and put a couple turrets and another launcher in the aft. There are a number of options, a DBB build on the Avenger is quite deadly as well. That's the first thing you have to do, because trying to mix all those weapon types is just not going to work. After you decide on your weapon layout, then we can move on to Bridge Officer skills and fix that console setup.
It always comes up, but doesn't amke sense - just because the Scimitar has so many disruptor emitters doesn't mean it can unleash all of them on the target. Never more than a few are fired and they'd need so many to cover blind spots. No ship other than Starfleet ships are shown to have arrays, so all these disruptors are "single cannon" type ones with a limited field of fire and they have to cover the whole ship which is awfully designed to project it's weapons in the first place. Add to that that STO emulates weapon "hardpoints" differently. If you slot a beam array on your Galaxy, for example, this beam fires from multiple hardpoints across the "canon" array on the model. You don't add and remove weapons and launchers from your STO ships, you simply change how these weapons operate. In theory, the more weapons you slot in STO should result in less overall damage per weapon but increased firing rate or something along these lines as the overall weapon hardpoints never change. Look at a BoP type raider. The ship only has two cannons, they don't multiply if you slot four "dual heavy cannons" on it, the firing rate just increases. If STO would try to accurately depict canon you could slot one weapon which fires slow but deals high damage for "four" that deal less damage but result in rapid firing cycles.
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Thanks for reminding me, I completely forgot about the Terran console!
Got it today and equipped it in the empty Sci console slot.
I'm not so sure about equipping the cloak console, in my opinion it wouldn't match the image of a battle cruiser (just my feeling, maybe you see things differently?)
Thank you for your opinion, I am very aware of this issue but as stated in my opening, Canon look is the priority No 1 for this build (I do also have an all-beam build for this ship which works great in terms of damagedealing, it's just very boring and ugly to watch).
Exactly what I think: Would I go (for example) for all beams (+ one Torp fore and aft), it would technically (in numbers) come closer to what a ship in canon would have as armament but here in sto it would not look like a canon ship firing: My vessel would burst out in a huge mass of beams, firing from all over the hull at once! (especially with FAW)
For example, in the show we never see the Defiant non-stop firing all her cannons and beam arrays at once, that would just look ridiculous.
If you are still insisting on keeping a cannon build priority #1, then I sincerely hope that I am never placed into a group with you for a mission that requires substantial dps to complete. If you are going on this excursion simply for solo play, then more power to you!
He means canon, as in he's trying to build a ship as close to how Starfleet ships were in the shows.
He's not making a cannons build. In fact, he's got a lot of torpedoes rather than cannons.
That being said, cannons just got a decent boost in the skill revamp, with one of their biggest issues being addressed directly.
What snoggymack22 said.
Also, at the moment I'm still running a FAW Beamboat for most content (except Adv. CE and story missions), so don't worry.
Edit: Also, how often do I have to stress it's "CANON" and not cannon I'm talking about? And you can tell from the first look at my Skillplaner...
The skill planner is also not really helpful, since you did equip it with a cannon, and a lot of torpedoes, and that doesn't scream "canon" either, really. Canon ships seem to have more energy weapons than torpedoes.
I agree. The Arbiter/Avenger is just slightly larger then Voyager (Intrepid Class.) I can't think of a Federation Ship that size that's ever used Cannons. The armament of the Avenger would most certainly be Phaser banks and Torpedos.
The Cannons don't fit that ship if you're trying to keep it as close to the shows as possible.
I think that would be my biggest question - what does the "battle" stand for in "Battlecruiser"? Since there is no canon distinction, what could be a made up distinction?
I think (dual) cannons could make an interesting distinction. Since the Defiant was inofficialy a "Warship" and had its quad cannons and quantum torpedoes, maybe this is what a Battlecruiser should have, too. (Of course, the Defiant also had regular phasers, but that seemed to have been side armnament - so basically something for aft weapon slots.)
Of course, given the available of Long Range Targeting, I wonder how single cannons would work... That would replicate it a bit of a WOK Miranda or JJPrise look.
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http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/0a767b0e9a683a9f94bb3310d8046d81
Throw out one DBB for a Torpedo, exchange the 2 copies of OSS with 2 copies of torpedo spread and call it canon. You could also forget about the DBB and pick cannons with 2 copies of CSV instead of BFAW; I’d give single cannons a shot on such a slow turning ship though. If you for some reason really want to have Beams, Cannons AND Torpedoes the Arbiter is forgiving enough to let you drop the attack patters which I wouldn’t and use two copies of the missing area weapon boff power.
Please note that the more different types of weapons you mix the more your DPS will suffer which will end you up with less and less aggro for helping traits like reciprocity to work. If you insist on "canon" build go with DBB OR single Cannons and a single Torpedo. The 180° torpedo I see on your build would be interesting with single cannons to use actually.
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Fore:
- Dual cannon (DHCs might have a bit too much oomph for that size and the weapon hardpoints used on that ship, IMO)
- Dual beam (unless it fires from the dual cannon mount, in which case pick whichever you prefer)
- Beam array
- Photon/quantum torpedo launcher
- ... Single cannon? I don't have any ships with 5 fore weapons...
Aft:
- Beam array
- Omni-directional beam array (or mines or special weapons like the Bio-Neural Warhead)
- Photon/quantum torpedo launcher
My Defiant uses quantums fore and photons aft, but the Avenger is a pretty new design, so... *shrugs*
One thing you can always do if you run out of hardpoint sets is use special stuff like tractor mines, bio-neural warheads and tricobalt warheads without too much trouble.
Edit: Also, if you ever want to take me on in PvP, be my guest - I love it when I'm up against someone I can actually fight on even terms with. (Then again, aside from your unorthodox weapons layout, it seems as if though your build is better than mine...)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My Arbiter was build like it sin I like that ship.
Technically it's about the same size as the Arbiter a lot smaller than both the Galaxy and Sovereign Class. For weapons it has 8 Phaser Cannons, 4 Phaser Arrays, 2 Torpedo Tubes and 8 Micron Torpedoes.
I have always suspected that the Arbiter is more like a call to this class (Achilles Class) than his predecessor the Avenger. The Avenger is Bulky and I really didn't like it but the Arbiter is sleek which reminded me of the Achilles.
Since the "Micron Torpedo" is out for the build the Quantum Set would probably suffice. I usually don't give any builds since I think my builds are weird and aside from me no other (I think) can able to handle them since it suits my own personal play style. But just for reference sake I did this to mine:
All Phaser Type:
Fore:
Quad Cannon and 2 DHC (3/5)
Quantum Phase Torpedo (4/5)
Quantum Phase Beam Array (5/5)
Aft:
Quantum Torpedo (1/3)
360 Omni-Directional Agony Phaser Array (2/3)
Agony Phaser Beam Array/Kinetic Cutting (3/3)
The console up to you but I've slapped the Console - Universal - Quantum Phase Converter. I want the bonus set for the torpedo and the leech is good and gives my ship that "Lance Feel" that Dreads have.
You may notice that I'm using Agony you could use any phaser type you want but I just love the Agony Beam Array and I do have a decent mode for it CritX4. I'm just putting the kinetic there sometimes but mostly go for the Omni-Agony. Why would I slapped an Agony omni there and just another beam phaser is because well technically phaser omni can't stack, unless I'm wrong so you can correct me. And since I can't slap 2 more Beam arrays I slapped the omni. Just to get the "Arc" feel when I'm Broad siding.
Skills I usually use are BO3, THY, BFAW and any of the 2 Cannon skill I just switched depending on my mood. You can just mix and match but why I like High Yield is because of the set trait of the quantum phase set and High Yield looks much cooler to me than spread.
Just remember I made this build for fun. Not DPS or anything. I just want a pseudo type "Achilles". It's not really "Canon" on both sides of the equation and DPSer's may have a headache over it but hey it's fun for me lol
Lastly these is just how I did mine and by no means I'm suggesting it's the right build or anything. Just showing you my take on a "Canon" that is "NOT CANON" from a ship that is also from the same situation only from a different game.
Confusing isn't it just go with it my bizarre explanation. Anyway have fun and maybe we can one day bumped to each other on a queue or something. If it's a weird ship doing weird things it's probably me.
Like now I'm enjoying my science who just stands in the middle of the fight and just be a big target lol .
Thank you!