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Investigation: Regen Issues
borticuscryptic
Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
I haven't been having luck tracking down an apparently drastic drop in passive HP/Hull Regen values on Holodeck vs. Tribble, so decided to start a separate thread to focus player feedback and further information.
Suffice it to say that nobody should be seeing drastic drops in these values. Shield Regen (unskilled) will have dipped slightly due to how we changed the benefits of Shield Subsystem Power, but we actually expected Hull Regen to generally increase for players across the board. Since players are reporting differently, we're willing to consider this an unintended bug, and would like to track it down and fix it.
Please report any information you have on the subject here, and we'll see if we can figure out what went awry.
Thanks!
Suffice it to say that nobody should be seeing drastic drops in these values. Shield Regen (unskilled) will have dipped slightly due to how we changed the benefits of Shield Subsystem Power, but we actually expected Hull Regen to generally increase for players across the board. Since players are reporting differently, we're willing to consider this an unintended bug, and would like to track it down and fix it.
Please report any information you have on the subject here, and we'll see if we can figure out what went awry.
Thanks!
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
0
Comments
OK.
The first screenshot below shows my ships hull regeneration rate on Holodeck, I fly a Fleet Assault Cruiser T5-U. I believe Hull healing is the skill tree section that improves hull regen (please tell me if i am wrong).
The second screenshopt below shows the same ship, and same toon on tribble.
I have two points in Damage control which my the tooltip improves passive hull regeneration. Hope this helps, let me know if there is anything else you need.
Edit: I think I've got the number correct here.
1) Base hull repair on holodeck is different for different ship types ( 72% for cruisers, 60% for science, and 50% for escorts according to stowiki. I was testing on a BC which had a 72% base on holodeck. )
2) Unlike some of the science skills, Hull Repair skill was split into two different skills on Tribble: Hull Restoration and Damage Control. On holodeck, I had 99 Hull Repair skill, which took my 72% base to 143.3%. The same on Tribble, spending 3 points in Damage Control, takes my 50% base to 100%. Combine this with a variety of sources of Hull Repair bonuses on Holodeck that translated to Hull Restoration on Tribble and you can see where the deficit can easily increase. I did see a few sources of Damage Control ( called Hull Regeneration on the Solanae Overcharged Warp Core .. used to be Subsystem Repair ) but folks may not have adapted builds towards hull regen yet ( if ever ).
Edit: There is a change, from what I've read in the skill descriptions, that mitigates the in-combat regeneration ( the above was all out of combat regen ). On holodeck, in combat is 1/6th the out of combat values, while on Tribble, it is 1/5th the value. This doesn't quite make up for the loss in base values for cruisers. ( 72%/6 = 12; 50%/5 = 10 ) But if you're testing an escort, you may actually see an improvement if you didn't rely on many +Hull Repair items. I'll try to confirm later.
Edit: Confirmed. In an escort, with 99 Hull Repair on Holodeck, I get in combat a 16.6%/min regen, as expected, while on Tribble, with 3 points in Damage Control, I get 20%/min regen.. also as expected.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
( In both cases, I'm in a TS Adapted Battle cruiser. I've stripped everything that could affect hull regen. I've also unselected
all my traits )
On holodeck, in a BC:
w/ 99 skill, I see 143.3%/min. This fits the math: 72% * ( 1 + .99 ) = 143.28%
add in a Assimilated Module for 104.7 skill, and I see 147.4%. Again it fits the math: 72%*(1+.99+.057) = 147.384%
continue with Tal Shiar Adapted Warp Core for 119.7 skill, and it fits the math again. 158.2%
On tribble, in the same BC:
w/ 3 Damage Control skill, I see 100.0%/min regen. This is expected with the new standard base regen for all ship-types.
It fits the math as I understand it: 50% * (1 + 1) = 100%
adding in the Assimilated Module no longer does anything, as it only improves Heals.
the same is true for the TS Adapted Warp Core.
So, if I look around, for the sake of argument, for something that does add to regen, I find the Solanae warp core.
It gives +17.5 ( I only have it at mk xii ) to hull regen. This brings my hull repair to 108.8%/min. This fits the same math as above: 50% * ( 1 + 1 + .175) = 108.75.
So, you can see where the slope of this equation is going to be lower than on Holodeck, due to the different base values. And that's even if you can find roughly the same numbers in +hull regen on Tribble as you could in +hull repair on holodeck. I don't have the Kobali Set, which is my best guess as to how others are getting high regen. I also don't have Fleet Enhanced Neutronium that increases Hull Repair. So, I don't know if either gives +Heal or +Regen. If say roughly half of the gear out there that gave +Hull Repair now gives +Regen, then you're going to see a net loss there, too, in addition to the loss from the base Regen value changes ( on cruisers, at least ).
Anyway, I don't currently have the ability to test beyond this, but I think I've made a good case as to where the differences might be coming from.
the Assimilated Set looks to act as advertised.. I think because it doesn't work with the skill system. a flat 1% per 2 seconds, which translates to 30%/min, which is exactly what I see.
the Techie trait appears to map only to +Heal, as zoning to ground, selecting it, and zoning back to space showed no change.
the new Nanite-Reinforced Circuitry are off by a factor of 10 in their descriptions. mk XIV green shows 6%/6 seconds(double out of combat), but only increases Hull Repair Rate by 6%/minute ( 12%/minute out of combat). Additionally, only the first one installed does anything. additional consoles look to be ignored. ( I've been meaning to submit a bug report on this )
Also, multiple copies of hull regen boosting don't stack. You can have five 'nanite reinforced circuitry' consoles, and it will still only boost your regen by 6%/minute. Also, the consoles cap at 6% per minute, regardless of rank or rarity.
@borticuscryptic So I was doing some testing, and after pulling everything relevant off my character, accounting for skill point totals, I still ended up having a hull regen of 100/min on tribble, and 110.4/min on holodeck. (this is on an escort).
I have no idea where the extra 10.4 is coming from- it's not accolades, I checked. It's not fleet stat boosts. It's not power levels. It isn't traits. It's just... there.
EDIT:
This site claims base regeneration (on holodeck) is 60, and matches the 110.4 number I have at precisely that amount of skill points.
If base regen on holo is 60, and base regen on tribble is 50, that'd explain your discrepency.
This might explain some of my issue. Will have to do some testing.
No change. It adds the same 5%/min (out of combat) both on Holodeck and tribble.
I think kidfinn is onto something with different hull regen baselines on tribble and holodeck.
My Hull Repair Rate on Holodeck is 151.2%/Min.
Transfered straight to Tribble, it drops to 60%/Min and I can't seem to get it any higher.
This is an exact copy of my build. All skills, traits, specializations, and duty officers are complete.
From looking at it, my suspicion is that the issue is the 'Techie' Trait which deals directly with Hull Repair Rate. It adds +30 to Starship Hull Repair which no longer exists.
For those having the problem, do you have the space trait 'Techie?'
Are you all using equipment that had +HullRepair?
As for the alteration to base regen values... I'm not sure that should've happened. We'll investigate that.
Surprised that there's no info here re: Ground regen, which I thought was a bigger issue...
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I was using the Borg 2pc, with its plus 10 to HullRepair...and +5.7% from the assimilated console. But I don't know if that's enough to account for the huge drop I'm seeing.
Could it be related to the type of ship? So far, all the complaining parties seem to be in cruisers / battlecruisers. I myself use the Tactical Command Battlecruiser (FED).
I just jumped back and forth between tribble and holo with the same char both times in dyson ground zone and i can't find any difference in HP regen on ground.
My character Tsin'xing
A few things I commonly use, especially recently with some experiments I've been running:
As a start I have 9 points in Hull Repair on Holodeck and 3 points in Damage Control on Tribble so both maxed out. I took off all my gear, boffs, and traits and then just slowly started putting them all back on and seeing how the numbers changed.
LIVE | TRIBBLE
199.3 | 156 - with nothing on
228.1 | 156 -with Delta Deflector on
237.1 | 156 -with Enhanced Neutronium Alloy +SIF on
241.6 | 156 -with Assimilated Module on
263.2 | 156 - with Techie trait on
303.2 | 196 -with Hull Repairing Nanites on
309.2 | 202 -+1 human Boff on
315.2 | 208 -+1 human Boff on
321.2 | 214 -+human Boff on
It appears that anything with +Hull Repair does not add to Hull Regen. Human boffs and Hull Repairing Nanites do because that doesn't increase the Hull Repair skill but adds a percentage to the Regen based on what you already have. I have no idea why the base on live is 199.3 and on Tribble is 156, this is with no gear or traits or boffs just the skill points. I have Command as my main specialization and Intel as my second.
ON HOLODECK: Hull Repair Rate: 321.2%/min (in combat this drops to about 97.8% and with all crew dead (0 crew) the lowest it will go is 67.8%)
ON TRIBBLE: Hull Repair Rate: 214%/min (in combat this drops to about 86-88%).
Also, here is my full build (SOME OF THIS IS SLIGHTLY OUT OF DATE BUT MOST IS ACCURATE):
Odyssey Science Cruiser: U.S.S. Liberty (NX-942813-L)
Some of this was posted in the "Utopia Planitia Shipyard (Ship of the Month)" forums but felt it also belonged here. I will try to add a little more as far as strategies and tactics to use with the Odyssey as time goes on. I'm kind of a one-trick-pony, meaning this is really the only ship I'm good at setting up.
Here is the full build at the Academy Skill Planner: http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=ultimateodysseysciencetank_4533 This basically shows my ship, skills, and everything else as accurately as possible. Some of the consoles are wrong cause they don't have all the new ones there yet. Hey if you like the build feel free to give me a medal
[color=#ddd123]Forward Weapon Setup:[/color]
Epic Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Acc] [Pen] [Ac/Dm]
Epic Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Acc] [Pen] [Ac/Dm]
Epic Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Acc] [Pen] [Ac/Dm]
Epic Neutronic Torpedo Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] {CrtH]
[color=#ddd123]Aft Weapon Setup:[/color]
Epic Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Acc] [Pen] [Ac/Dm]
Epic Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [CrtD]x2 [Acc] [Pen] [Ac/Dm]
Epic Omni-Directional Antiproton Beam Array Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [Acc] [Arc] [Dmg] [Pen]
Epic Kinetic Cutting Beam Mk XIV [Ac/Dm] [Dmg]x4
[color=#ddd123]Systems Equipment:[/color]
Epic Delta Alliance Deflector Array Mk XIV [SciCdr] [SS/SI]
Epic Rare Delta Alliance Hyper-Efficient Engines Mk XIV [Drv2] [Full]
Epic Fleet Reinforced Warp Core Mk XII [SEP] [W->S] [A->S] [SCap] [AMP] [SST]
Epic Dyson Regenerative Shield Array Mk XIV [Cap] [Cp/Rg]
[color=#ddd123]Systems Consoles:[/color]
ENGINEERING CONSOLES:
Epic Conductive RCS Accelerator Mk XIV [ResAll]
Epic Enhanced Neutronium Alloy Mk XIV [+Turn] (Obviously picked these for the +turn rate and the resist)
Epic Enhanced Neutronium Alloy Mk XIV [+SIF] (Obviously picked these for the +hull repair rate and the resist)
Epic Plasmonic Leech
Epic Regenerative Integrity Field (extra Miracle Worker basicaly)
SCIENCE CONSOLES:
Epic Restorative Particle Focuser XIV [PowIns] [ShHP] (for the added DPS boost and resist to energy drains)
Epic Restorative Particle Focuser XIV [PowIns] [ShHP] (for the added DPS boost and resist to energy drains)
Epic Assimilated Module Mk XIV (to increase my crit chance and for the two peice bonus with the Kinetic Cutting Beam)
Epic Bio-Neural Gel Pack Mk XIV (to improve shield system and reduce cooldowns)
TACTICAL CONSOLES:
Epic Vulnerability Mk XIV [+Ap]
Epic Vulnerability Mk XIV [+Ap]
[color=#ddd123]Ship Statistics:[/color]
Crew Compliment: 2,500
Crew Recovery Rate: 50.0%/min
Alive Crew: 2,500
Stealth Detection Rating: 62.58%
Power Transfer Rate: 184% (9.2/sec)
Bonus Defense: 82.7%
Hull: 86,888
Hull Repair Rate: 321.2%/min (in combat this drops to about 97.8% and with all crew dead (0 crew) the lowest it will go is 67.8%)
Shield Regeneration Rate: 403.3 shield/6 sec
Shields Facing: 15,322
Kinetic Resist: 52.4%
All Energy Resist: 52.4%
Bonus Accuracy: 27.6%
Crit Chance: 17.3%
Crit Severity: 71.5%
Inertia: 30
Flight Speed: 34.77
Turn Rate: 20.2
(The skills above are when I have the Maneuvers Command on. Because of my leech and other power boosts my turn rate usually ends up at 21-23.).
SKILL-BASED STATS: SPACE
My highest one is Hull Healing, Starship Subsystem Repair, and Ship Hit Points, and Starship Flow Capacitor
(Resists Subsystems Offline Status): 164
(Improves Ship Hull Healing): 188
(Improves Ship Hit Points): 149
Followed by Starship Shield System, Starship Power Insulators, and Starship Engine Performance
(Bonus Engine Power): 104
(Improves Shield Hit Points): 134
(Resist Shield Drain and Energy Drain): 124
[color=#ddd123]Bridge Officer and Duty Officer Layout:[/color]
Boff Layout:
Lt. Commander Universal Station (Human Tactical): Torpedo Spread I, Beam Overload II, Beam Fire at Will III
Ensign Universal Station (Human Science): Science Team I
Lieutenant Tactical Station (Romulan): Tactical Team I, Torpedo Spread II
Commander Engineering Station (Human): Emergency Power to Shields I, Emergency Power to Shields II, Engineering Team III, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field III
Lieutenant Science Station (Human): Polarize Hull I, Hazard Emitters II
Doff Layout:
(Purple) Maintenance Engineer: Recharge time reduced for Engineering Team and Buff (with two of them I can use Engineering Team every 15 seconds - gives me around 19,192.5 hull points every 15 seconds!)
(Purple) Maintenance Engineer: Recharge time reduced for Engineering Team and Buff
(Purple) Conn Officer: Recharge time reduced for Science Team and Buff (with two of them I can use Science Team every 15 seconds)
(Purple) Conn Officer: Recharge time reduced for Science Team and Buff
(Purple) Diplomat: 25% chance: -33.9 Weapon Power to Attacker (max once per 5 sec)
(Purple) Conn Officer: Chance to reduce the time to recharge Evasive Maneuvers (with this and the Helmsman I can use Evasive Maneuvers every 30 seconds now)
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
That'd only matter during Combat, and I'm seeing that players are apparently experiencing discrepancies just sitting in ESD Orbit.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
That extra mystery regen is almost certainly the 1.25%/3 seconds you get for cruiser ship mastery. That should net you +50%/minute out of combat. So 72% (base) * 1.99 (skill) + 50% (mastery) = 193.28. Not sure what's up with the extra 6%, though.
edit: oh.. do you happen to be Human? That might be it. Can't unselect that.
Right. I totally understand. I just figured it was worth mentioning, because in the final tally, a player's observed in-combat regeneration on Tribble in relation to their reported out of combat regeneration will be much higher than on Holodeck because of a) no crew damage reducing it, and b) if I read correctly, in combat regen on Tribble is 1/5th that of out of combat ( excepting flat regen add-ons like cruiser ship mastery ), while on Holodeck it is 1/6th.
Let me point out that the new Ground skill "Regeneration" and subsequently it's maximum value/alternate, "Improved Regeneration" giving passive regen on Tribbble is not all that useful with current setting it has on Tribble. The passive regen bonus literally applies only when out of combat. The entire point of having higher passive-regen on the Ground maps is to offset some damage with the passives, while you are fighting. Having this skill-branch only apply out of combat therefore, has little to no use. I'd either say, alter it so it applies 25% - 30% in combat, remain at 50% bonus out of combat (so the way that currently is), or give us back Threat Control for Ground.
Alas, I digress - after testing the other day - the passive regen seems to be working fine with the gear & traits, but I heard about other issues with it, which I'll need to actually test before commenting any further.
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com