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Official Feedback Thread for the Skill System Revamp

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  • unsacredgraveunsacredgrave Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Ground Skills need more points, I would say 12 would be fair. Reason:
    If you play the role "dmg dealer" you want to max your weapons and kit skills, so you get max dmg out of guns and abilities like ambush. If you do that, you have no skills in HP or shields, I mean zero. Usually if you specialise in one role like "dmg dealer", you can have at least minimum, very basic, healing and resistance skills.

    With the old skills system this is possible. If I max weapons and kit power, I can at least throw some points into armour or shields. And exactly like this it is working in the NEW Space skills. If you max Tactical, you can at least throw some points in Hull and Shields. You should make it like that on ground too. So the the best solution is to give 12 points, or maybe even 13.

    "Ultimate Powers (filled blue bar at buttom)":
    The points needed to unlock these Powers should be reduced. At the moment it seems to be 26 points needed to unlock 1 of it. I think it should be reduced to 20. For example as Tac. Char. you dont need all skills in tactical: Like if you use Reciprocity Ship Trait you dont need all the Tac.Boff. Cooldown reductions, if you additionally just use Energy Weapons you dont need all the Torpedoe Damage, and if you dont use a Carrier you also dont need all the Pet Skills. So if you reduce it to 20, one could get 1 or 2 of the ultimate powers. If you just want a player to have 1 Ultimate Power max, than at least reduce the minimal spent points to 24.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2016
    Just tested Tachyon Beam although it's hard given I can't completely match the flow caps numbers so I got it as close as possible. At 125 Aux, the reduction gets lower the higher in drain skill we get and given we get more drain skill, it isn't as bad. I got 16% reduction at 100 drain and 9.5% at 400. Given we get more drain skill, it's fine, although the way the difference is being reduced as it goes up might have something to do with the Tribble Aux problems.
  • lsegnlsegn Member Posts: 594 Arc User
    It makes complete sense to combine offensive/defensive skills since they are two sides of the same coin. In order to defend against something you must first understand its use, this is just basic logic.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    Just putting this out here: Ground skills do not need more points. I'm already able to replicate all of my ground builds, and they're all going to be more powerful thanks to how kit skills are being treated now. I'm actually afraid that Elite ground, which is already easy, is going to get even easier with this revamp. There's a breaking point where too much power just isn't fun :(

    Now, it would be nice to get clarification on whether skills boost Physical/Kinetic ranged weapons, since we can't (easily) get ahold of those on Tribble right now.
  • peqleghpeqlegh Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    Well, I've ranked my char up my playing through the episodes, and now sitting at level 35 with one more mission to complete the Klingon story line.

    At this point, I can say I don't feel I've made any bad choices for optimizations - and I think new players will feel that way. And from what I'm seeing with my clapped out build, this system really has paid off in terms of optimizing the unoptimal ship. And I have been able to make choices for down the road. This is all good.

    However, a new player might not know which ones to choose for down the road, so sub-optimial builds are still likely to happen. Which get's into the next thing.

    From a more experienced player, I am feeling that I'm very quickly limiting my self to flying a very specific ship and a very specific load out for this char, and that trying anything beyond that ship and specific loadout will be gimped far worse then presently. If any new abilities come available down the road - like Destabilizing Resonance Pulse came from Blood of the Ancients, to even the latest Polaron gear in the current featured episode that will need drain abilities, and who knows what else in the future - the toon may or may not have the skills for a fair shake down. It's one thing to see the basic thing in action, it can be completely different to see something even partly buffed up. Well, one can always do that with a console or two (which may or may not play havoc with the build), then decide based on that if a reskill is necessary if decided to incorporate it into the build. Could also try with an alt char. And so to that end it's really no different from current.

    On the reskills though - don't blank the sheet if someone chooses it. That is frustrating and annoying. Why not find a way to show what's skilled, the person makes makes there selections as normal, and then give a set or cancel button which at that point consumes or not consume the reskill token.
  • sammiefightersammiefighter Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Thanks for the reply .. most of that makes sense. Exotic has always been a trouble maker too.
    Problem: I only revived the 'you unlocked Boff training powers' message once. And it actually took a bit to realize they were unlocking with those little bubbles at the bottom

    I think this is something folks will become accustomed to. It's a change, so you didn't expect it, but it's pretty obvious/understandable once you recognize it.

    Your are right there .. I didn't expect it! Mostly I was pointing out some possible display bug in the unlock messages, and that those indicators are tiny tiny tiny. Squares the size of the circles would draw more attention, perhaps with an [x] when unlocked.
    If we increase the number of points available, it will likely only go up by 1-2, not 5-10.

    2's cool 2 is more than 0. Yes, 10 was intentionally greedy, and I admit I knew that [ thus the ;) ]
    Looking at the old system I was able to cover 17/30 (and I'm including threat here!) for 56% of the tree, with ease (had ground points left). 10/20 is cutting it very thin for ground characters, and feels very restrictive. I'll rate it as 'just adequate' for space characters, but we can't swap points now so

    Where did you get 30? There were only 10 Ground Skills in the old system.

    I think I can say pretty safely that any increase to Ground Points is unlikely to occur.

    As I did with space: old 10 skills * 3 tiers = 3 new system block [*]. I was guessing even a +1-2 point changes would be a lot to ask with the base blocks being so powerful (60% base). Design wise you nearly need more less powerful blocks to massage points.. seems backed into a corner here from my side of the screen. At least you get bang for your buck with the 10 points.

    [*] Actually not a fair trade anyways, need to re-evaluate with a 60/40 2-block system trade off, evenly distribute points over kit powers to account for changes .. blah .. blah .. blah .. math
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,521 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    exactly, greedy people will benefit from that big time, selling manuals for Prices way up there. If you guys cant come up with a solution than the easiest thing to do is, just unlock all Manuals, tac can craft all tac manuals, eng all eng manuals and sci all sci manuals, its not like this will make us SUPER DUPER overpowered or otherwise totally benefits us and the Issue would be no more.

    You mean exactly how we do that with the Pilot, Intelligence, and Command Specializations? You reach 22 points and all the Lt. Commander and Commander Manuals are unlocked that you can't already buy from the Skill Trainer. Funny how we can do this for an 'off' career specialization path but not the actual Career Path we went to the Academy for, etc. Also while fooling around with adding and subtracting Manuals don't take away the ones we have learned from Lockboxes or FEs by mistake.

    I mean why make this complicated just unlock all appropriate Science if 22 points into Science tree, etc. for the others. You cannot unlock Tac or Engineering Books if you are Science, etc.

    Post edited by ltminns on
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    OK....I am having a heck of a time finding the page for BOFF Abilities on the Wiki, now. They used to have this really nice chart, too....I hope someone didn't "fix" that right out of the Wiki.

    Found the BOFF Ability chart, finally...they renamed the page, so my link was lost in a loop:
    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Bridge_officer_and_kit_abilities


    Anyhoo...going through the GROUND skill tree today on my Tribble Character.
    I have a SCIENCE character on Tribble.

    Couple of questions:
    Boff Training Manuals is labeled as "Science Training".
    Are the unlocks in the bar graph (at the bottom) for Science unique to Science characters?
    How would an Engineer or Tactical select their manuals that are inside my "Science Training" bar graph?

    How would my Science character access BOFF Training Manuals for Science that are inside the "Engineering Training" or "Tactical Training" choices in their bar graphs? This is not like the Space section where all three career related bar graphs are at the bottom.


    Made a Engineer character just to check this bar graph...they match between Science and Engineering so I am going to assume it is the same for all Ground characters, even though the titles are unique. "Science Training", "Engineering Training" or "Tactical Training".

    ALSO:
    At point #3 on the bar...Science is asked to select between the following BOFF Training Manuals: "Gravimetric Shift 3" OR "Sonic Pulse 3". I don't know what that ability "Gravimetric Shift" is. I thought I knew pretty much all the "basic" BOFF abilities...I have not really looked at the Intel, Pilot, or Command BOFF stuff. (Wait a frickin' minute...that stuff isn't on ground. Is it?)

    Was "Gravimetric Shift" supposed to be "Electro-gravitic Field"? Maybe? I can not verify with the Wiki right now.
    Post edited by where2r1 on
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Was "Gravimetric Shift" supposed to be "Electro-gravitic Field"? Maybe?

    Yes. I accidentally used the old name.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • burstdragon323burstdragon323 Member Posts: 852 Arc User
    Since just about everything I was going to post about has been covered by other players, I will limit my feedback to how the revamp has affected the KDF experience where it counts the most: the tutorial, and the first few missions.

    First, to understand my stance, here's some basic stats for the starting ship.

    T1 Basic B'rel Bird of Prey
    Hull: 10,000
    Shields: 0.8, or 80% of the shield's base value
    -Starting Weapons-
    1x Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannon
    1x Disruptor Turret
    1x Photon Torpedo
    Standard Cloak
    No raider flanking

    Overall, I had no issue with the tutorial space map, as you have plenty of backup for dealing with the galaxy class ship. The major hurdles come later, and the worst come from two missions: "Space Chase" & "The House Always Wins".

    In the last map of "space chase", you have to contend with several groups of ships, and they wouldn't be much of an issue if it weren't for a few issues.

    The first group is 2 Miranda Frigates. Normally not much of a threat, but one of the frigates has the "unusually strong!" Buff on it, making it more difficult to kill. This ship can usually kill me once before I kill him, as his torpedoes obliterate my shields and take out large chunks of my hull.

    The next encounter used to be a Typhoon, but was auto-upgraded into a Command Cruiser. Since it's a low level mob, it doesn't have lots of powers or its console, but it is armed with Phaser Beams, Dual Cannons, Photon Torpedoes, and launches Peregrine Fighters. It's not too difficult, but it can leave you in bad shape for encounter three.

    Encounter three is a standard three ship formation of miranda frigates, but they can kill you due to two reasons.
    1-After the Command Cruiser, your shields and/or hull are usually low, and the lack of shield heals at this point can hurt you.
    2-The three frigates warp in RIGHT BEHIND YOU. With only a turret, this leaves you in an incredibly vulnerable position.

    In "THAW", the Torg Cruisers that guard the transports are all flagged "unusually strong!" Frigates are one thing, but a Basic BoP VS a boosted cruiser is not an enjoyable experience. I died at least twice to each cruiser.

    The simplest way I could see his fixed would be to change two things:
    1-change the b'rel's Dual Heavy Cannon into a Dual Beam Bank
    2-change k'gan's Torpedo High Yield into Beam Overload.
  • stobg2015stobg2015 Member Posts: 800 Arc User
    Burstdragon, not understanding why that last post is relevant to the skill revamp... did they make major changes to the tutorials, too?
    (The Guy Formerly And Still Known As Bluegeek)
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,016 Arc User
    apparently they did, because i don't remember any 'Unusually Strong' buffs on ships when i last went through the KDF tutorial​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • primar13primar13 Member Posts: 1,896 Bug Hunter
    Here's how I would redesign it.

    (more)

    Solid suggestion. I'll take it into consideration.


    Yeah he's complaining about changes made months ago.... He just found an Empty Soapbox in a Room with devs.

  • tygerzztygerzz Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    lsegn wrote: »
    It makes complete sense to combine offensive/defensive skills since they are two sides of the same coin. In order to defend against something you must first understand its use, this is just basic logic.
    I politely disagree. yes you need to understand that there is an inter-relationship but you dont get to be an expert in (drain) withdrawing/adding by studying insulative properties. A few real world examples:
    If my house is cold I can cut my bill by adding insulation, or i can upgrade my HVAC unit to a more eco friendly model with more BTUs at a lower cost. I dont have to be and expert in HVAC to by some fiberglass R-19 rolls
    If i want to push more volume (water) through a hose I could trade my vinal hose for a stronger hose with steel mesh reinforcement or i could switch to metal pipe and push through more water but i could also just go get a bigger hose. A fireman is a diffrent skill set from a hydrocutter tool and dye operator.
    The same goes for eletrical current I could provide better eletrical protection through increase insulation or I could change the material to allow a better flow of eletrons or the voltage or change the hertz or lower the resistance. An eletrician and a materials specialist are very diffrent job areas.
    The best example might be a motor and a drive shaft. The motor is insulated against ground currents at the point of eletrical and magnetic induction but if you simply decrease the resistances on the shaft the need for insulation decreases. The eletrical enginner and the mechanical engineer dont have to understand each others jobs to get the max out of the motor they just need to be specialist in their own field.
    and besides this is STO the designers can do what they want, in the end we play to have fun and forget about work (aka the real world). but none the less the basis for real world seperation exists.
  • maelwy5maelwy5 Member Posts: 593 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    OK....I am having a heck of a time finding the page for BOFF Abilities on the Wiki, now. They used to have this really nice chart, too....I hope someone didn't "fix" that right out of the Wiki.

    It's still there, it's just named a little unintuitively.

    [ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2016
    tygerzz wrote: »
    I politely disagree. yes you need to understand that there is an inter-relationship but you dont get to be an expert in (drain) withdrawing/adding by studying insulative properties. A few real world examples:
    If my house is cold I can cut my bill by adding insulation, or i can upgrade my HVAC unit to a more eco friendly model with more BTUs at a lower cost. I dont have to be and expert in HVAC to by some fiberglass R-19 rolls
    If i want to push more volume (water) through a hose I could trade my vinal hose for a stronger hose with steel mesh reinforcement or i could switch to metal pipe and push through more water but i could also just go get a bigger hose. A fireman is a diffrent skill set from a hydrocutter tool and dye operator.
    The same goes for eletrical current I could provide better eletrical protection through increase insulation or I could change the material to allow a better flow of eletrons or the voltage or change the hertz or lower the resistance. An eletrician and a materials specialist are very diffrent job areas.
    The best example might be a motor and a drive shaft. The motor is insulated against ground currents at the point of eletrical and magnetic induction but if you simply decrease the resistances on the shaft the need for insulation decreases. The eletrical enginner and the mechanical engineer dont have to understand each others jobs to get the max out of the motor they just need to be specialist in their own field.
    and besides this is STO the designers can do what they want, in the end we play to have fun and forget about work (aka the real world). but none the less the basis for real world seperation exists.

    Personally, even if I know it will make my life harder in PvP world, I don't mind the offense/defense change.

    That being said, nerfing energy siphon and tachyon beam on top of those changes is way too much considering most players now a days spec flow caps and add plasma flow caps consoles for their precious weapons power off plasmonic leech and DPS. Now they'll have extra resistance to drain. Most of those players don't ever use science drain abilities. It's people like me who run dedicated drain boats that get screwed. If any changes are done when they fix all these Aux scaling issues, then I'll test again and include Tyken's Rift. Right now, the nerf hammer hit science based drains hard.

  • tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    No change to tutorial mission that I am aware of. If you listen to the interview with borticus, he wanted experiences playing missions leveling up. So yes burstdragon323's post is relevant here.
  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    all 3 Ultimate Cooldowns set to 2 minutes ?
    outch .... just ... outch

    By the Way, Guys the Abilities of all 3 Ulitmates unlock at 25 Points, just use "P"
    in Space and scroll down look for "EPS Corruption" / "Probability Manipulation" / "Focused Frenzy"
    the 26 Point unlocks the choice for the first Modification
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    No change to tutorial mission that I am aware of. If you listen to the interview with borticus, he wanted experiences playing missions leveling up. So yes burstdragon323's post is relevant here.

    Yeah, the Command Cruiser change has been in for a pretty long time now. I personally had no problem with it on my newest character, but I could see a newbie getting hung up there having to deal with their pets and abilities. Might be a good thing to consider changing, since it's a part of the tutorial. Then again, it really isn't that hard...
  • valarauko43valarauko43 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    I spoke too soon in my earlier assessment that I would be able to continue playing as I always had when the change comes. I was only doing the tutoria, as a fed-tac, and had made it to the 'doomsday' episode. I started having 'timing out' issues while trying to load the episode. Decided to try something else so I finished leveling my character using the stuff in the console and found myself in a borg red alert. I was the only player as far as I could tell but after only one respawn found myself facing the unimatrix. I have never come close to beating it solo but I always manage to stick it out until the timer says it's over with no more than one additional respawn. This time I died everytime I got hit. Could not shoot down the PEBs anymore either. So when it was over I went and respecced. Four respecs later I have 1 point in each of nine tac skills except the hanger one. Every other point is in something defensive. I turned my manticore into a beamboat, 6 disruptor beam arrays and one photon. I switched to a defensive power arrangement. I can't take a hit. I have to run out of range if I make it and maybe I cango back to 9km in 30 seconds if I'm lucky. I spent fifteen minutes taking out five cubes before the timer ran out (this was the fourth time solo). At this rate I am probably incapable of contributing to a team in any way because I spend so much time running to try and survive. That's ok. I don't do STFs...not even the normal ones because I know, even with my lvl 60 main on holodeck, that I don't have what it takes gear-wise even if I knew how to run the mission,s which I don't. But here's the thing. As of last week my main, a fed-tac, could do a borg red alert with just one other person. I figure they're probably carrying me but I felt like I was contributing some. I have al these command and pilot spec benefits going on and was able to survive all that 'up close and personal point blank shield scraping' stuff. Just me in a manticore with the terran sets and one other player. Now I think I should not try any more. I'm not quitting but based on my performance with these new rules, I think I just got fired because I don't think any one will want me around. I will have to see what happens when I can convert my main. Sorry abou the WoT.
  • makocallowaymakocalloway Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    Yea, I don't understand the drain nerf either. I thought we wanted to make sci look more attractive to players, not less. If anything these changes should increase our powers, not decrease. Or we'll have even more red shirts that just want to pew pew.
    5rFUCPd.png

  • peqleghpeqlegh Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    Or Eng/Sci's going pew-pew instead of using their given powers. :-(
  • sgtfloydpepper#7911 sgtfloydpepper Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    I spoke too soon in my earlier assessment that I would be able to continue playing as I always had when the change comes. I was only doing the tutoria, as a fed-tac, and had made it to the 'doomsday' episode. I started having 'timing out' issues while trying to load the episode. Decided to try something else so I finished leveling my character using the stuff in the console and found myself in a borg red alert. I was the only player as far as I could tell but after only one respawn found myself facing the unimatrix. I have never come close to beating it solo but I always manage to stick it out until the timer says it's over with no more than one additional respawn. This time I died everytime I got hit. Could not shoot down the PEBs anymore either. So when it was over I went and respecced. Four respecs later I have 1 point in each of nine tac skills except the hanger one. Every other point is in something defensive. I turned my manticore into a beamboat, 6 disruptor beam arrays and one photon. I switched to a defensive power arrangement. I can't take a hit. I have to run out of range if I make it and maybe I cango back to 9km in 30 seconds if I'm lucky. I spent fifteen minutes taking out five cubes before the timer ran out (this was the fourth time solo). At this rate I am probably incapable of contributing to a team in any way because I spend so much time running to try and survive. That's ok. I don't do STFs...not even the normal ones because I know, even with my lvl 60 main on holodeck, that I don't have what it takes gear-wise even if I knew how to run the mission,s which I don't. But here's the thing. As of last week my main, a fed-tac, could do a borg red alert with just one other person. I figure they're probably carrying me but I felt like I was contributing some. I have al these command and pilot spec benefits going on and was able to survive all that 'up close and personal point blank shield scraping' stuff. Just me in a manticore with the terran sets and one other player. Now I think I should not try any more. I'm not quitting but based on my performance with these new rules, I think I just got fired because I don't think any one will want me around. I will have to see what happens when I can convert my main. Sorry abou the WoT.

    That's what I've been worried about. I run a T6 tac flagship on my main lvl 60 fed with beams and a single torp and do an average of about 45k dps in advanced. Won't know how it'll pan out until I can copy over my character, but I'm getting the distinct impression it's gonna suck hard.

    I get that they want to level the playing field, and encourage people try something out of their comfort zone, but this approach is a little too heavy-handed. I play a tac and that's what I enjoy. I know what works for me and that's what I stick with. I don't like playing engineer or sci toons.
    qXKS1ZB.jpg
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    peqlegh wrote: »
    Or Eng/Sci's going pew-pew instead of using their given powers. :-(

    Frankly, these unwarranted nerfs will just push even more players towards DPS builds. What was it, 16% of players use science captains? Do you want to push it down to 10%?

  • peqleghpeqlegh Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    lucho80 wrote: »
    peqlegh wrote: »
    Or Eng/Sci's going pew-pew instead of using their given powers. :-(

    Frankly, these unwarranted nerfs will just push even more players towards DPS builds. What was it, 16% of players use science captains? Do you want to push it down to 10%?

    I don't - frankly I'd like to see more Sci characters. Personally I like being an Engi... Though my main Engi toon is into heavy sci for space combat. I like being an Engi on the ground, but I like being science focused in space. I like Exotic damage - I don't need a Nerf on those science abilities.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Since just about everything I was going to post about has been covered by other players, I will limit my feedback to how the revamp has affected the KDF experience where it counts the most: the tutorial, and the first few missions.

    I got to my first skill point, which I stuck in: Projectile Weapon Training.
    Which would be +50 "something" in my Torpedoes...that should upgrade my Torp.

    I have collected rewards for finishing several of the Tutorial missions.
    Was able to upgrade the Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannon to Mark 2 and
    equip a Green Engineering Monotanium Alloy Mk2.

    I am getting ready to go into "Space Chase".
    (Why did I type "Space Race" there?)
    I will tell you how it turns out on that last map.

    But if you look at the Skill Tree....the first level of skills unlocked for space helps HULL, SHIELDS and WEAPONS. Though I do wish I still had access to "Driver Coils" because I am not looking forward to that flight out to Forcas 3. :(

    (Oh lovely, they moved Borath system to the other side of the universe, too. )

    One more thing: "Distribute Shields" very helpful at low levels keep that front shield up...there was a way to bind it to your space bar I can't bother to find it...I just stuck it on a button on the tray. Not many buttons to keep track of on the lower levels, anyways.
    Post edited by where2r1 on
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • tygerzztygerzz Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    Some thoughts after thinking about things today, reviewing comments and looking at what things are not addressed. I keep falling back to rewarding people for trying new things and that some builds should have some advanages over others. AKA lets take a step back from the Crit H (everything) Crit D beams ala 1:10 ratio planning.

    I feel that the addtion of a few skills at Lt. Commander and Captain say one skill for each class at those levels, a total of 6 skills with three tier for each skill (18 nodes) and 9 to 12 skill point to fill the nodes could provide more flexablity, more builds, more attempts to increase diversity. This would take the nodes in each class from the current 30 to 36.

    Things that could be added include:
    Increaseing the hold time- (Applied to tractor beams/gravity well/etc.) {allows more time for a torp boat to manuever into place}
    Increase system offline_ (Applied to boarding party/viral matrix/target shield offline/etc.)
    Something that increases DOT ( a boots to eject warp plasma/aceton beam) doesnt apply to plasma weapons
    Something that increases PBAoE AOE damage or duration
    Something that makes mine harder to hit or at least more resistant to a beam fire at will 1 or a cannon scatter 1
    Somthing for tact other then weapons boost ( i guess this would have to be paired with a new skill but a self viral burst to get you out of a hold)
    Increase flanking damage buff

    I am in favor of seperation of control and drain offense and defense

    It seems we have alot of high end skills in engineering and science that just get no love and some love needs to be thrown at a small tac ship that favors manuvering over carrier pets.

    I also feel that having to filling 28 of 30 nodes to unlock an ultimate (full three) is very steep, 27 would be better so i dont have to waste a point on a node that i never plan to use. If my suggestion is followed: i would like to see 27 or 30 of 36 total group filled for the full ultimate as you would be looking for a bit more defense after getting the full ultimate.

    I also liked the idea of unlocking that first ultimate step earlier as it gets you thinking about the whole process sooner but right now the cost and the benefits dont quite mesh. so IMO something has to give.
  • nebfabnebfab Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    .
    where2r1 wrote: »
    But if you look at the Skill Tree....the first level of skills unlocked for space helps HULL, SHIELDS and WEAPONS. Though I do wish I still had access to "Driver Coils" because I am not looking forward to that flight out to Forcas 3. :(

    (Oh lovely, they moved Borath system to the other side of the universe, too. )
    Driver coil is now split between one possible option in the sci unlock track (that's the sector space aspect, and thankfully, you now only need 5 sci picks to get it) and the 3rd skill in the EPS tree (Full impulse aspect.)

    I was very afraid the new system would slow low-level sector travel too much, but with the new order of sci unlocks, it's at least tolerable, and high-level chars are actually faster now.
  • nebfabnebfab Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    maelwy5 wrote: »
    Energy weapons arent king because of BFAW (though it is a rather large portion of it). Energy is king because hybridizing is actively punishing players. Even a rainbow build will do more damage than a hybrid energy/projectile build. And that because torpedoes are so massively neutered by shields.

    FAW has become the preferred norm because of several reasons. The first is that it's much less effort to just bind ability activation to the spacebar and fly around at maximum throttle not caring too much about what's in your forward arc. The second is that FAW automatically targets chaff like the annoying PVE enemy fighter/platform/heavytorpedo spam. The third is the interaction with Plasma Science Consoles (they add a flat amount of DPS that doesn't scale up with your weapon damage, only the number of shots you fire). And the forth is that FAW is multi-purpose - it increases Single Target as well as AoE DPS.

    But FAW is also demonstrably broken - just look at how Crits haven't/have/haven't worked and how Accuracy overflow STILL doesn't work during FAW. In fact, if you swap from FAW to Surgical Strikes, suddenly the meta gets shaken up - you're still using energy weapons, but Crits and Accuracy mean something again, and the Plasma Consoles suddenly drop from adding ~4% DPS to adding 0.4% DPS.

    There have been a multitude of abilities recently which reward you for slotting a torpedo alongside energy weapons.
    Examples include the "Super Charged Weapons" and "Weapon System Synergy" starship traits.

    Shield penetration isn't as much of an issue as many people make it out anymore either. For a start if you're firing both Energy weapons and torpedos then your energy weapon shots will hit your foe first and strip most of the shields. Secondly, there are now many other methods of increasing the raw penetration itself: The 'Omega Kinetic Shearing' trait grants +40% damage as a DoT with full shield penetration. Concentrate Firepower grants +10%/15%/20% damage which bypasses BOTH shields AND hull resistances. The Weapons System Synergy trait grants +50% Shield Bleedthrough and you can easily get it to a ~30% uptime. The Kinetic Precision trait grants a constant +10% Shield Bleedthrough to Projectiles. The Self-Modulating Fire trait basically grants 50% Shield Penetration to both Energy Weapons and Projectiles for 10s every 45. And the free Anniversary T6 Science ship comes with a Krenim Chroniton Torpedo Launcher that has 100% Shield ignore on it (default rate is 25%, boostable to 50% with a set bonus)... etc. etc.

    Torpedos by themselves aren't a problem as long as you're playing to their strengths. The issue is that they've fallen out of favour recently due to the prevalence of FAW. But they also have broken mechanics just like FAW: just look at Torpedo Spread's interactions with Kemocite (currently the only way to Crit with it), Gravity Well + Destabilizing Resonance Beam, or even the (very broken) combo of Concentrate Firepower + 'Overwhelming Force' trait + the Laytaf Dulot DOFF.

    There are also means of Buffing Torpedos without sacrificing much in the way of Energy damage. Examples include the Experimental Proton (+Photon and +CritH) and Counter Command (+Phaser/Disruptor and +Photon) and Terran Task Force (+Projectile dmg and Secondary Torpedo Launcher) sets. As well as some oddball ones like Heavy Escort Modifications (+Kinetic dmg, +CritH, +CritD, +Acc, +Recharge)

    It's fairly obvious the devs would prefer us all to slot at least one Torp. Really the only thing holding us back at this point is a lack of BOFF ability slots (on MOST ships) to provide for both Energy Weapon AND Torpedo Abilities.

    [Edit: Clean forgot about "Kinetic Precision"!]

    It's all true... What is also true is that a basic FaW build costs... maybe 300k EC, and can be incrementally improved from there. There are expensive ways to boost their performance, but the difference is quantitative, not qualitative.

    With torps (and I have less experience there) most builds are ALL about some expensive gimmick (or five.) Concentrate Firepower? You need a 3000Z ship. Traits, doffs, even torps themselves aren't all that easy to get if you're new, and by the time you can get them, you invested so much in FaW gear ad so used to the way FaW boat works, you're not very likely to switch.
  • ortsimortsim Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    e30ernest wrote: »
    If it isn't too much, could you compare at 100 aux for now to see how the "normalization" of EPG effects affected the said skills.

    Sure, here are numbers at ~50, ~100, and ~125. I was able to get within 3 partg and ~1-2 aux power settings to test as well. Edit: Still has space rep traits active the first time, fixed that now.

    Holodeck
    (214 partg/epg, 54 aux power, t4 ship)
    461 Tyken’s Rift 2
    579 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2
    851 Gravity Well 3


    (214 partg/epg, 102 aux power, t4 ship)
    675 Tyken’s Rift 2
    882 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2
    1081 Gravity Well 3


    (214 partg/epg, 127 aux power, t4 ship)
    804 Tyken’s Rift 2
    1073 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2
    1211 Gravity Well 3



    Tribble
    (211 partg/epg, 55 aux power, t4 ship)
    169 Tyken’s Rift 2
    406 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2
    1028 Gravity Well 3


    (211 partg/epg, 101 aux power, t4 ship)
    287 Tyken’s Rift 2
    605 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2
    1289 Gravity Well 3


    (211 partg/epg, 125 aux power, t4 ship)
    348 Tyken’s Rift 2
    708 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2
    1424 Gravity Well 3



    Post edited by ortsim on
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