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Mines revamp idea

tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
So Mines have major disadvantages:
long cooldown, multiple slotting does not help much
long activation time after being dropped
short range 2km, 3km(photon)
slow travel speed
easily destroyed
mines self destruct after a while
They don't share tactical consoles with torpedoes unless they are same damage type (just make a console for kinetic ,ie. both torps and mines)

I propose designing modes to switch between around these weaknesses. Maybe right click on the mine slot and change mode.
For example these modes:

Rapid:
12 sec cooldown reduction
This will effectively make this a powerful short range kinetic weapon. Still is a 5 second activation after the mine is dropped, so if a npc or
person noticing these dropping stays within 2km they are asking for trouble. Also some types will spam out faster like photon with shorter
base cooldown. And Web mines will still have a significant cooldown remaining

Ecm:
very defense values and generates extra fake mines around the real ones
Besides being hard to target and kill this would be an effective damage soak against Fire-at-will and some AOE.

Range:
10km activation range
Mines have full 10km range activation (think loading them with extra fuel and sensors). I don't think this is OP. They still have to slowly travel and take forever to reach a far away target. They are still easy to outrun or destroy.
But this needs to not track cloaked ships over the normal detection range. That would be OP to just drop these around where you think cloaked ships are.


I am not sure if changing mode should be limited to outside mission. Or allow changing when not in combat (red alert). Either way, I think this would bring mines up to par and be able to adapt to the mission. I think we can agree mines need some TLC
What do you think?
Post edited by tinkerbelch on

Comments

  • tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    I realize mines are not used much and this may not get much attention. I just think it is important to have options. And those options might need upgrades to be viable.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,991 Arc User
    Having mines share tac consoles with torpedoes is something that should have happened years ago.

    Multi-mode-toggle-mines is too complicated, it will never happen. More plausible buffs are increasing their range and damage. Increasing launch speed or time before death sounds nice but having more objects in an area might make lag worse.
  • thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    The problem with mines (and heavy torpedos) is that everything flies way too fast these days. Slow the game down, and mines'll become a lot better.
  • tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Might be too complicated? Or do you know for sure? Ah the modes could be implemented in the boff power bar. Kind of like modes of the Veteran ships.

    Also Not sure what should happen if more than one mine is slotted.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,723 Arc User
    thibash wrote: »
    The problem with mines (and heavy torpedos) is that everything flies way too fast these days. Slow the game down, and mines'll become a lot better.

    Even then...they still have to many disadvantages...they're slow traveling...slow to activate...easy to destroy...easy to spot...range sucks...long cooldown and shared cooldown.

    They just have far to many problems...they need to be redone...if I had to choose one from the OP...I'd like the ECM one.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    So Mines have major disadvantages:
    long cooldown, multiple slotting does not help much
    long activation time after being dropped
    short range 2km, 3km(photon)
    slow travel speed
    easily destroyed
    mines self destruct after a while
    They don't share tactical consoles with torpedoes even though they are same damage type (just make a console for both quantum torps and mines ...etc)

    I propose designing modes to switch between around these weaknesses. Maybe right click on the mine slot and change mode.
    For example these modes:

    Rapid:
    12 sec cooldown reduction
    This will effectively make this a powerful short range kinetic weapon. Still is a 5 second activation after the mine is dropped, so if a npc or
    person noticing these dropping stays within 2km they are asking for trouble. Also some types will spam out faster like photon with shorter
    base cooldown. And Web mines will still have a significant cooldown remaining

    Ecm:
    very defense values and generates extra fake mines around the real ones
    Besides being hard to target and kill this would be an effective damage soak against Fire-at-will and some AOE.

    Range:
    10km activation range
    Mines have full 10km range activation (think loading them with extra fuel and sensors). I don't think this is OP. They still have to slowly travel and take forever to reach a far away target. They are still easy to outrun or destroy.
    But this needs to not track cloaked ships over the normal detection range. That would be OP to just drop these around where you think cloaked ships are.


    I am not sure if changing mode should be limited to outside mission. Or allow changing when not in combat (red alert). Either way, I think this would bring mines up to par and be able to adapt to the mission. I think we can agree mines need some TLC
    What do you think?
    Which mines have a 2 kilometer or 3 kilometer range? I want those. Also, I think that mines are just fine the way that they are. I use them on all of my engineers.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    Think photon and biomolecular both have 3km range. Others have 2km.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    Think photon and biomolecular both have 3km range. Others have 2km.
    You missed the point.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    Mines are a gimmick. Unless one really dedicates a build towards making mines work (which indeed is feasible) they suffer major disadvantages. Next to the ones mentioned in the OP (range, speed, destructibility), they are virtually worthless in PvE due to their laughable low damage output versus the major DPS soaking hulls. But I think that most important, their bridge officer powers suck.

    Don't get me wrong, Dispersal Pattern Alpha and Beta are both well-thought out. But the problem is:
    - Alpha: you never, ever have an NPC pursuing your ship where multiple waves of mines will work magic, and in PvP, everybody just sneezes them apart anyway
    - Beta: Great power. Just a shame that the top mines are usually too far out of range to hit a target in the center of the field.
    - Their ranks. Mine powers start at Lieutenant for Dispersal Patter I on both powers. Considering there are far more efficient powers from there on anyway, I find it hard to find a lot of people justifying using mine powers.

    What I would suggest would be to buff the damage output and detection range of mines to, say, 5 kilometer, and to make them undestructable as soon as they locked on a target. You can destroy them when they are floating around, but as soon as they lock on to you, they effectively become torpedoes.
  • tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    That's cool. Do you also think the boff skills should start at ensign?
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    So Mines have major disadvantages:
    *snip*
    They don't share tactical consoles with torpedoes even though they are same damage type (just make a console for both quantum torps and mines ...etc)
    *snip*

    Mines do share damage bonus with their Torpedo counterparts. Transphasic Mines / Breen Clusters are buffed with a generic Mine damage console or with Transphasic damage specific ones. This persists with the other Mine damage types.

    An example were Transphasic Torpedo Boats. Specializing in Transphasic projectiles (mines AND torpedoes), their consoles, bonus cater to that damage type. Various Transphasic Torpedoes in the game as well as Transphasic Mines and Breen Clusters all got that same damage buff. This was why for a dedicated Transphasic Boat people put up with the lousy Breen Space Set to have that Transphasic bonus.

    The only Mine Launcher I know that is left on it's own is the Nukara Web Mine Launcher. But that got stealth nerfed a month or so before Delta Rising came out in late '14.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • johnnymo1johnnymo1 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    I have thought for a while the only very usable mines are the mine torpedoes, like the breen one, but they even got nerfed a long time ago. Either make the mines not able to be targeted or just make them a device instead of a weapon.
  • tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    Thank you warmaker001b. Correcting post.
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