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Official Feedback Thread for the Skill System Revamp

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  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,095 Arc User
    As I play through the missions I notice that the "X"/Aim key must now be held down instead of touched once. Is this change permanent?
    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • tinkerbelchtinkerbelch Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    yup I agree. Manual training unlocks need to go. Should be career and rank of captain only that determines this.
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    preiko wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    BOFF manuals can be bought and sold on the exchange now so that's a totaly irrelevant issue.

    Yes, at this very Moment in the Game,
    with this Kind of unlocking and crafting the costs will be much higher in the future

    exactly, greedy people will benefit from that big time, selling manuals for Prices way up there.
    If you guys cant come up with a solution than the easiest thing to do is, just unlock all Manuals, tac can craft all tac manuals, eng all eng manuals and sci all sci manuals, its not like this will make us SUPER DUPER overpowered or otherwise totally benefits us and the Issue would be no more.
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    As I play through the missions I notice that the "X"/Aim key must now be held down instead of touched once. Is this change permanent?

    just noticed that too, hopefully just a bug since if intended that would be very annoying having to hold down the x key all the time.
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,016 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    As I play through the missions I notice that the "X"/Aim key must now be held down instead of touched once. Is this change permanent?

    under Options, Controls tab, region set to Ground, look for the option labeled 'Aim mode as a toggle' and set the bullet to On if it's currently set to off

    if it's already set to On, it's likely bugged, so make a thread of it in the appropriate section of the tribble subforum​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    I've spent six years in this game and dabbling in the economy and in my opinion the BOFF manual market may increase slightly but that is all.

    If it's such a big deal then just make a BOFF manual and sell it, then buy the one you want. This is what the exchange is for.
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    I've spent six years in this game and dabbling in the economy and in my opinion the BOFF manual market may increase slightly but that is all.

    If it's such a big deal then just make a BOFF manual and sell it, then buy the one you want. This is what the exchange is for.

    look, i have no idea what your problem is, all we ask for is that what is Possible NOW, should be possible with the new system TOO, ever since i created my 3 crafters i didnt need to buy manuals from others anymore and thats good, what would be the problem by keeping that? like tinkerbelch also said:

    "yup I agree. Manual training unlocks need to go. Should be career and rank of captain only that determines this."

    Simple as that, now who should why have something against that, other than people who like to sell those for horrendes prices??
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    They cost peanuts and will continue to cost peanuts, I still don't see your problem.
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    They cost peanuts and will continue to cost peanuts, I still don't see you problem.

    what is peanuts for one, maybe a coconut for someone else, again speak for yourself. I have 42 Characters often change boffs here and there and iam crafting manuals all the time, this change would mean a) i need around 6 crafters more or b ) i have to pump money all the time to get what i need when right now i can craft it myself, so the real question is still, what is your problem with that simple solution? as i mentioned the only people who could have something against that would be people benefitting from this "issue" by making money off it, so is that the case with you? no? than why the "nay nay nay"? sorry but i dont get it, why some people always have to jump in and say NO for no reason :/
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    They cost peanuts and will continue to cost peanuts, I still don't see your problem.
    I highly doubt that. A small amount of people will likely make alts just to craft these manuals. Most will simply have to buy things they normally wouldn't have had to buy. Making an alt just to craft manuals means it isn't worth it, unless you're gouging people.
  • darkhorse281darkhorse281 Member Posts: 256 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    They cost peanuts and will continue to cost peanuts, I still don't see you problem.

    what is peanuts for one, maybe a coconut for someone else, again speak for yourself. I have 42 Characters often change boffs here and there and iam crafting manuals all the time, this change would mean a) i need around 6 crafters more or b ) i have to pump money all the time to get what i need when right now i can craft it myself, so the real question is still, what is your problem with that simple solution? as i mentioned the only people who could have something against that would be people benefitting from this "issue" by making money off it, so is that the case with you? no? than why the "nay nay nay"? sorry but i dont get it, why some people always have to jump in and say NO for no reason :/

    I agree with you fully 100%, I'll be bent if it stays the way it is. Some manuals cost peanuts others don't, and that's usually the manuals that people need. Only 2 ways manuals are peanuts on the exchange, first is over supply, 2nd is its a manual no one wants. Nobody should base feedback on how many millions of EC they can make off of unsuspecting new people. Especially stuff that we can currently craft. Helping the greedy exchange players even more is not needed, they already have billions.
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    They cost peanuts and will continue to cost peanuts, I still don't see you problem.

    what is peanuts for one, maybe a coconut for someone else, again speak for yourself. I have 42 Characters often change boffs here and there and iam crafting manuals all the time, this change would mean a) i need around 6 crafters more or b ) i have to pump money all the time to get what i need when right now i can craft it myself, so the real question is still, what is your problem with that simple solution? as i mentioned the only people who could have something against that would be people benefitting from this "issue" by making money off it, so is that the case with you? no? than why the "nay nay nay"? sorry but i dont get it, why some people always have to jump in and say NO for no reason :/

    I agree with you fully 100%, I'll be bent if it stays the way it is. Some manuals cost peanuts others don't, and that's usually the manuals that people need. Only 2 ways manuals are peanuts on the exchange, first is over supply, 2nd is its a manual no one wants. Nobody should base feedback on how many millions of EC they can make off of unsuspecting new people. Especially stuff that we can currently craft. Helping the greedy exchange players even more is not needed, they already have billions.

    and i agree with you 100%, no need to make the Greedy ones richer than they allready are, its peanuts for those who have i dont know how many billions of ec and make dozens of millions every day, for the average player its anything but peanuts.
    I dont complian about EC i can make a good amount myself having a few hundred millions ecs is not an issue for me (but a big issue for many others), BUT that does not mean that i suddenly want to throw that out of the window for stuff that i can craft myself with the system we have in place.

    So @crytpic @borticuscryptic PLEASE remove the unlock system for Training Manuals so that only the Carrer and Rank depends, many people struggle to farm some ec to gear up, there is really no need to punish them even more with that change. THX.
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    So @crytpic @borticuscryptic PLEASE remove the unlock system for Training Manuals so that only the Carrer and Rank depends, many people struggle to farm some ec to gear up, there is really no need to punish them even more with that change. THX.

    While I can say that we'll be examining everyone's feedback on the Training Unlocks in more detail, I can also safely say that we won't be moving to a Career+Rank requirement. It is entirely by-design that different Captains will have access to different Training, based on their Skill Choices. Always has been, and will continue to be so.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    So @crytpic @borticuscryptic PLEASE remove the unlock system for Training Manuals so that only the Carrer and Rank depends, many people struggle to farm some ec to gear up, there is really no need to punish them even more with that change. THX.

    While I can say that we'll be examining everyone's feedback on the Training Unlocks in more detail, I can also safely say that we won't be moving to a Career+Rank requirement. It is entirely by-design that different Captains will have access to different Training, based on their Skill Choices. Always has been, and will continue to be so.

    Well dont get me wrong i totally Respect what you say, but saying:

    "It is entirely by-design that different Captains will have access to different Training, based on their Skill Choices. Always has been, and will continue to be so."

    is not 100% accurate, fact is with the system we have right now, one can put 6 points in exactly the trees that unlock the Manuals and get ALL of them unlocked, thats why my 3 Crafters Eng / Tac / Sci each can craft all avaible Manuals of their Carrer, and thats just NOT Possible anymore with the new system, big or small issue in the end it makes it worse than it is right now, and for some people this will leave a very bad taste in their mouths, therefore i still would like to ask you kindly to rethink this and come up with a better solution that does not cripple our possibility to craft those with a single character (per carrer) like we can now.
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    @borticuscryptic - Any comments on why Energy Siphon and Tachyon Beam's drain got reduced so drastically and why Aux doesn't increase energy siphon's duration anymore.
  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    As I play through the missions I notice that the "X"/Aim key must now be held down instead of touched once. Is this change permanent?

    when you use the the "Mouse middle button" AIM stays
  • freenos85freenos85 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    As you guys already stated, nothing is really lost in the skill revamp. I can pretty much replicate my old build with the new skill-tree system.
    But doing so leaves me in a situation where i can never reach any of the "ultimate" ablities at the end of the tree. Whereas in the old tree i would loose not much by spreading my points out - investing in sci, eng and tac ablilities as i saw fit and getting a more well rounded character that could use nearly every weapon configuration to greater effect - i now feel that not going for at least 1 ultimate ability will make my character underperform.

    Those that go for a full tac spec - as in every dps oriented player in the game - will just get a bonus on top of their usual build.
    Players that spread their points to get a more varied experience, that regularly switch between different ship types are basically left in the dust.

    I propose giving players 49 points instead of 45. This way you can't have 2 ultimate abilities but you're still able to spread your points a little more.
    Maybe even introduce an ultimate that unlocks if you've not invested more than 20 points in any of the categories. This Ultimate would of course be a bit less effective then the "real" ones and shouldn't (couldn't) have any upgrades to it.
  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    [While I can say that we'll be examining everyone's feedback on the Training Unlocks in more detail, I can also safely say that we won't be moving to a Career+Rank requirement. It is entirely by-design that different Captains will have access to different Training, based on their Skill Choices. Always has been, and will continue to be so.

    :-( :-( :-( these requirements really stays in place ? )-: )-: )-: )-:

    How about this , Do a Survey ... not today , not tomorrow sometime in the future
    and ask us Players,

    If we want to keep the current R&D Manual restrictions
    or
    If we players want to get rid of it
  • martakurillmartakurill Member Posts: 456 Arc User
    Had a thought to improve the big "kerfuffle" over the hanger skills required for some players to take....

    Why not have them affect ALL space pets, meaning not just hanger pets, but saucers, the Aeroshuttle, MVAM parts...and even Photonic Fleet and Nimbus Distress Call. This way, these skills and passive would be useful for all players in some way or another...just more useful if your build is designed around summons / hanger pets.
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    preiko wrote: »
    [While I can say that we'll be examining everyone's feedback on the Training Unlocks in more detail, I can also safely say that we won't be moving to a Career+Rank requirement. It is entirely by-design that different Captains will have access to different Training, based on their Skill Choices. Always has been, and will continue to be so.

    :-( :-( :-( these requirements really stays in place ? )-: )-: )-: )-:

    How about this , Do a Survey ... not today , not tomorrow sometime in the future
    and ask us Players,

    If we want to keep the current R&D Manual restrictions
    or
    If we players want to get rid of it

    i cant see anyone other than those who sell and make profit of them saying that those requirments should stay since, and i repeat myself again, with the system we have at the moment THIS is possible and what probably many do, having 1 to 3 (1 per carrer) characters unlock every single manual so they can craft them wihtout having to pay whatever others want to charge them for, so saying " players will not loose anything with the new system" is in this case also wrong, cause we do lose something, sadly and for me that allready is a big negative that tastes bad.
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    Choice is important. Without consequence, those choices are meaningless. Choices where the outcome/decision are different depending on outside influences are even more powerful and important to a progression system such as this one.

    Without choices that mean anything, the entirety of the system may as well not exist. "If everyone is special, nobody is."

    You might disagree with the choices we're asking you to make, but I hope you can at least understand the reason that they are there.

    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • preikopreiko Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    freenos85 wrote: »
    As you guys already stated, nothing is really lost in the skill revamp. I can pretty much replicate my old build with the new skill-tree system.
    But doing so leaves me in a situation where i can never reach any of the "ultimate" ablities at the end of the tree. Whereas in the old tree i would loose not much by spreading my points out - investing in sci, eng and tac ablilities as i saw fit and getting a more well rounded character that could use nearly every weapon configuration to greater effect - i now feel that not going for at least 1 ultimate ability will make my character underperform.

    Those that go for a full tac spec - as in every dps oriented player in the game - will just get a bonus on top of their usual build.
    Players that spread their points to get a more varied experience, that regularly switch between different ship types are basically left in the dust.

    I propose giving players 49 points instead of 45. This way you can't have 2 ultimate abilities but you're still able to spread your points a little more.
    Maybe even introduce an ultimate that unlocks if you've not invested more than 20 points in any of the categories. This Ultimate would of course be a bit less effective then the "real" ones and shouldn't (couldn't) have any upgrades to it.

    The ultimates abilites ... especially the Engineering "EPS Corrution" is not that great

    this skill tree could use a Neutral brance, which would Count towarts all trees
    with that you could just bypass unnecessary skills on your way to ultimates
  • sparhawksparhawk Member Posts: 796 Arc User
    So @crytpic @borticuscryptic PLEASE remove the unlock system for Training Manuals so that only the Carrer and Rank depends, many people struggle to farm some ec to gear up, there is really no need to punish them even more with that change. THX.

    While I can say that we'll be examining everyone's feedback on the Training Unlocks in more detail, I can also safely say that we won't be moving to a Career+Rank requirement. It is entirely by-design that different Captains will have access to different Training, based on their Skill Choices. Always has been, and will continue to be so.

    Well dont get me wrong i totally Respect what you say, but saying:

    "It is entirely by-design that different Captains will have access to different Training, based on their Skill Choices. Always has been, and will continue to be so."

    is not 100% accurate, fact is with the system we have right now, one can put 6 points in exactly the trees that unlock the Manuals and get ALL of them unlocked, thats why my 3 Crafters Eng / Tac / Sci each can craft all avaible Manuals of their Carrer, and thats just NOT Possible anymore with the new system, big or small issue in the end it makes it worse than it is right now, and for some people this will leave a very bad taste in their mouths, therefore i still would like to ask you kindly to rethink this and come up with a better solution that does not cripple our possibility to craft those with a single character (per carrer) like we can now.

    Absolutely correct. Please don't break this with the new system.
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    Choice is important. Without consequence, those choices are meaningless. Choices where the outcome/decision are different depending on outside influences are even more powerful and important to a progression system such as this one.

    Without choices that mean anything, the entirety of the system may as well not exist. "If everyone is special, nobody is."

    You might disagree with the choices we're asking you to make, but I hope you can at least understand the reason that they are there.

    what you say i can totally understand, of course if everyone is special, than no one really is, all good and dandy, but on the other side the simple fact is - and here i hope you can understand us too - , with the system we have now we could make such "choices" that would give us every single possible manual training unlocked (and why not? its just manuals, the chars itself are not being boosted or overpowered by being able to craft them all like they can do right now), so the outcome would not be either A, B or C but all of them. What we disagree is nothing more than, something will be taking away that is possible right now, but will not be possible with the new system, no matter how you look at it, it is a nerf and nerfs always taste bad.
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    They cost peanuts and will continue to cost peanuts, I still don't see you problem.

    what is peanuts for one, maybe a coconut for someone else, again speak for yourself. I have 42 Characters often change boffs here and there and iam crafting manuals all the time, this change would mean a) i need around 6 crafters more or b ) i have to pump money all the time to get what i need when right now i can craft it myself, so the real question is still, what is your problem with that simple solution? as i mentioned the only people who could have something against that would be people benefitting from this "issue" by making money off it, so is that the case with you? no? than why the "nay nay nay"? sorry but i dont get it, why some people always have to jump in and say NO for no reason :/

    I am sorry your coconut cost 10k ec.....really this is not an issue at all

    please move on
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
  • hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    @borticuscryptic - Any comments on why Energy Siphon and Tachyon Beam's drain got reduced so drastically and why Aux doesn't increase energy siphon's duration anymore.

    I may have confused you Lucho on my thread. Aux does effect the Siphon Duration.

    I said Aux does not effect Siphon, as I was under the impression the Aux will now be Affecting ES effectiveness, which may not be the case, as it may stay the way it is on holo
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
  • quepanquepan Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    Choice is important. Without consequence, those choices are meaningless. Choices where the outcome/decision are different depending on outside influences are even more powerful and important to a progression system such as this one.

    Without choices that mean anything, the entirety of the system may as well not exist. "If everyone is special, nobody is."

    You might disagree with the choices we're asking you to make, but I hope you can at least understand the reason that they are there.
    the issue is this there is no point outside a DPS Build the way the end content is , your shunned if you dont do X DPS your trying to put diversity back in where there is no place for it in the game play . unless you completely redesign all the content to show this there is no point except one way to build , right now i can build with DPS in mind and achieve a little flexibility .i just dont see that in this system currently . building outside DPS meta is not a smart choice seeing it gives you no merit and makes others carry you .
    this is the game you made , and i doubt your willing to fix it to the point where this system would be used like you state .
  • highlandrise85highlandrise85 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    hajmyis wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    They cost peanuts and will continue to cost peanuts, I still don't see you problem.

    what is peanuts for one, maybe a coconut for someone else, again speak for yourself. I have 42 Characters often change boffs here and there and iam crafting manuals all the time, this change would mean a) i need around 6 crafters more or b ) i have to pump money all the time to get what i need when right now i can craft it myself, so the real question is still, what is your problem with that simple solution? as i mentioned the only people who could have something against that would be people benefitting from this "issue" by making money off it, so is that the case with you? no? than why the "nay nay nay"? sorry but i dont get it, why some people always have to jump in and say NO for no reason :/

    I am sorry your coconut cost 10k ec.....really this is not an issue at all

    please move on

    sure and some of those coconuts cost several 100ks and with the new system it wont get cheaper, and esspecially for someone who has many characters and often changes boffs that than have to be trained too, this will be costly over time, so if it does not affect you than you are lucky, but it does affect many others including me, therefore the one who does not have an issue with the topic should move one, not the one who does have an issue, and seing that allready a good amount of people are saying the same shows that this is an issue that should be taken serious, the cause may look small, but the result is not so small for people who are affected by that change.

    It was said that players will not lose out anything, all we would like to see is that that is the case, and thats sadly not the case if the new system goes live the way it is right now.
    9Kh66Si.gif


    True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
    ​​
  • cidstormcidstorm Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    Choice is important. Without consequence, those choices are meaningless. Choices where the outcome/decision are different depending on outside influences are even more powerful and important to a progression system such as this one.

    Without choices that mean anything, the entirety of the system may as well not exist. "If everyone is special, nobody is."

    You might disagree with the choices we're asking you to make, but I hope you can at least understand the reason that they are there.

    We could never buy all the skills, of course there were consequences in the old system.

    You're enhancing the part of the system that no one actively enjoys, just like you did with the reputation system. Increasing the opportunity cost consideration and lowering the number of things we actually get to pick for ourselves. When will you be selling more experience ability slots?
  • freenos85freenos85 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    Choice is important. Without consequence, those choices are meaningless. Choices where the outcome/decision are different depending on outside influences are even more powerful and important to a progression system such as this one.

    Without choices that mean anything, the entirety of the system may as well not exist. "If everyone is special, nobody is."

    You might disagree with the choices we're asking you to make, but I hope you can at least understand the reason that they are there.

    The problem lies in the fact that this system doesn't support the enviroment. The enviroment, the content, is geared towards DPS. Consequently there exists an implicit desire to tailor your ship to do just that. If you can't make every single skill path enable your ship to do more deeps in a somewhat equal fashion (be it team DPS or individual DPS) then there is only one (i.e. no) choice.

    You can still offer a choice if you restirct the number of ultimates that a player can have, just not by limiting their resources in the revamped skill system. Every player would still be special to an extend.
This discussion has been closed.