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Skills revamp - will they listen to our Tribble feedback?

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    samt1996 wrote: »
    It makes me happy to see a DEV b**ch slap some morons in the face. I think I'mma cry now that was just beautiful. :D

    Actually, it was more of a "insert foot in mouth" situation. Irony is funny sometimes :D

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • elsungaelsunga Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    Actually Borticus is active and helpful in Tribble discussion about new system. I have to say I am carefully optimistic as more I see into new system I like it and it looks like a step into right direction to finally balance game.
  • newromulan#1567 newromulan Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    I look forward to having every single poster in this thread eat some crow when our next patch to the Skill Revamp hits next week.

    I thank you for commenting and hope feedback is taken seriously, however, its hard to do an apples to apples comparison now as we can't copy our characters over. maybe when that is available, then players can really see the differences.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Will they or won't they... 'Only your hairdresser knows for sure'.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Tribble will allow character copy next week but for now they want people to test the system as a new character is leveled. One step at a time.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    I look forward to having every single poster in this thread eat some crow when our next patch to the Skill Revamp hits next week.
    Don't give into any illusions, borticuscryptic. Inevitably, you will not change or fix something that someone mentioned, and it will be proof of the futility of feedback.

    Selective Perception is strong in us humans.
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  • kavasekavase Member Posts: 771 Arc User
    I look forward to having every single poster in this thread eat some crow when our next patch to the Skill Revamp hits next week.

    Your on! How about this, I'll pick a suggestion made on the official feedback forum, if it happens, I'll eat some chow of your choice. Not crow though because I don't think it's safe nor can I go out a buy it, and I can't hunt if my life depended on it.

    How about this one where you said "Solid suggestion. I'll take it into consideration." In reference to @sirboulevard post about some of the arrangement of the skill tree. This is his suggestion as an FYI...
    Ok, so I'm seeing one really really big problem right now is that the Unlocks are very unfair for a low-level player and rather annoying for the majority of max level ones. Especially ones centered around Pets.

    For instance here's how the current Tac Tree looks:

    Starship Stealth => Threat Control => Projectile Crit Chance => Energy Crit Chance
    OR
    Hangar Weaponry => Pet Health => Projectile Crit Damage => Energy Crit Dmg

    The first two ranks of this have upgrade centered around Hangars. One problem. No one below Lv 40 will have a hangar. And even then, only Klingons & Romulans. While I'm all for giving those guys love, this doesn't help ~90% of players w/out hangars unless they're going for a Stealthy ship (ala Bird of Prey) or a Threat Control Tank.

    Here's how I would redesign it.

    Energy Crit Chance -> Projectile Crit Chance => Threat Control => Pet Health
    OR
    Energy Crit Dmg => Projectile Crit Damage => Starship Stealth => Hangar Weaponry

    Everyone can use Crit increases, but not everyone will use threat control, ship stealth, or pet based buffs. This makes the tree more effective for all players. I will continue to analyze the others will additional feedback.

    To make it even more fair, it doesn't even need to be exactly how he has it laid out in his suggestion. However, I think what would be fair is not to have hangar weaponry first as none can even get a pet until at least level 40. This is very solid feedback and really should be changed because it really doesn't make much sense where it is now.

    I'll eat whatever chow it is with pride if that gets changed prior to holodeck release. :)

    To be clear, this is all in good fun, if it doesn't happen it's not a big deal, at least not to me. They do listen as it's clear based on the responses from at least two devs on the official feedback forum but typically the changes themselves don't occur until some time after, but this is more in response this or some change will occur on the next patch.

    Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,606 Arc User
    I look forward to having every single poster in this thread eat some crow when our next patch to the Skill Revamp hits next week.

    "I like mine with lettuce and tomatoes,
    Heinz 57 and french-fried potatoes..."
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    when did they ever listen to tribble feedback? remember delta rising?

    I was overseas at the time.

    But I do remember the DQ being what the players wanted before I left. And then you got it. It strikes me a of of time that there's a reason the devs only pay attention to Twitter and Reddit instead of their own forums.
    <3
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    twg042370 wrote: »
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    when did they ever listen to tribble feedback? remember delta rising?

    I was overseas at the time.

    But I do remember the DQ being what the players wanted before I left. And then you got it. It strikes me a of of time that there's a reason the devs only pay attention to Twitter and Reddit instead of their own forums.

    There are 2 totally different aspects to the DR issue. One is the actual *content*, that being the story/playable missions. The other was the "grind"; that being the new level cap and what it took to get there, plus all of the new ship and equipment tiers and associated upgrades. As someone who has been here since beta, I have *always* seen requests for more content, but virtually *never* seen anyone asking for a grind. So in your comment above, implying that the players got what they wanted(yes, they wanted content) is completely ignoring the other half of the story. It is either an uniformed, or a disingenuous argument.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • kostamojenxkostamojenx Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    Considering the physical layout of this new skill tree is EXACTLY what I suggested last year in the feedback section... Yes, they do listen to our feedback :p
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Considering the physical layout of this new skill tree is EXACTLY what I suggested last year in the feedback section... Yes, they do listen to our feedback :p

    I recommend you get a significant zen payout for your idea being used :D

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • cryptiecopcryptiecop Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    Based off their past updating performance, I wonder how much stuff will be broke when this hits live ...
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  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    As someone who has been here since beta

    I don't care about e-peen.
    So in your comment above, implying that the players got what they wanted

    The only thing in your post that's important. They did get what they wanted: Shooting things in the DQ. The reputations are a side issue considering they long precede Delta Rising as a game mechanic.
    <3
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    twg042370 wrote: »
    As someone who has been here since beta

    I don't care about e-peen.

    Neither do I. My comment was not about e-peen, it was saying that as someone who has read the forums for a really long time, I have never seen anyone asking for a grind. That has nothing to do with e-peen, although it *does* show your mind seems to go to e-peen even when no one is talking about it, which is...interesting.

    The only thing in your post that's important.

    In your opinion. But the "grind" was important to a lot of people as well. You don't get to write off those people's opinions just because it doesn't fit with your talking points. Yes, DR had *some* of what people wanted, and *some* of what people didn't. You can't just ignore half of the issue though. Or at least, you can't do it without being called out.

    The reputations are a side issue considering they long precede Delta Rising as a game mechanic.

    I'm not talking about reputations.

    PS: I actually enjoyed DR, for the most part. But that doesn't mean I am unaware of the issues other people had, or that I will pretend they didn't exist to support my own view.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    I think it entirely depends on what you would call "listen". Reading the Tribble thread about this system, quite a few people "suggest" something like this: In the new skill system I will have to make a choice between dealing more damage or taking less damage (just using these random examples to make a point). I don't like that. I suggest a change that lets me have all skills with a single click.

    Now, you can kinda see where this "suggestion" will go, it certainly won't be implemented. But those who made this probably create a thread afterwards, saying "they never listen to us". Bugs that make it to Holodeck are one thing but this stuff is something else entirely.​​
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  • dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    If the Devs had listened to the Tribble feedback and actually did something with the feedback, Delta Rising would never have been released. The Devs only want people to play on the tribble server to find bugs and problems the couldn't find before. The Skill revamp, no matter if it kills you characters or not, will still come out. Once the Devs say it's coming, then it's getting released, even with the majority of the players yelling No.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    dragnridr wrote: »
    If the Devs had listened to the Tribble feedback and actually did something with the feedback, Delta Rising would never have been released. The Devs only want people to play on the tribble server to find bugs and problems the couldn't find before. The Skill revamp, no matter if it kills you characters or not, will still come out. Once the Devs say it's coming, then it's getting released, even with the majority of the players yelling No.

    Why would they listen to anyone saying to cancel the new season? They also ignore people asking them to shut down the servers and end STO.

    "Listen" does not mean "obey stupid ideas" or even "obey neat ideas that would delay a season for 6 months."

  • dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    dragnridr wrote: »
    If the Devs had listened to the Tribble feedback and actually did something with the feedback, Delta Rising would never have been released. The Devs only want people to play on the tribble server to find bugs and problems the couldn't find before. The Skill revamp, no matter if it kills you characters or not, will still come out. Once the Devs say it's coming, then it's getting released, even with the majority of the players yelling No.

    Why would they listen to anyone saying to cancel the new season? They also ignore people asking them to shut down the servers and end STO.

    "Listen" does not mean "obey stupid ideas" or even "obey neat ideas that would delay a season for 6 months."

    Maybe not cancelling the season all together, but delaying it for another few months to iron out the problems, fine. But Players complained about the grind, enemies being HP sponges for no reason, and other issues, yet that got ignored completely.

    So my wording wasn't exactly what I meant, but the ENTIRE post was meant to be taken TOGETHER.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    dragnridr wrote: »
    dragnridr wrote: »
    If the Devs had listened to the Tribble feedback and actually did something with the feedback, Delta Rising would never have been released. The Devs only want people to play on the tribble server to find bugs and problems the couldn't find before. The Skill revamp, no matter if it kills you characters or not, will still come out. Once the Devs say it's coming, then it's getting released, even with the majority of the players yelling No.
    Why would they listen to anyone saying to cancel the new season? They also ignore people asking them to shut down the servers and end STO.

    "Listen" does not mean "obey stupid ideas" or even "obey neat ideas that would delay a season for 6 months."
    Maybe not cancelling the season all together, but delaying it for another few months to iron out the problems, fine. But Players complained about the grind, enemies being HP sponges for no reason, and other issues, yet that got ignored completely.

    So my wording wasn't exactly what I meant, but the ENTIRE post was meant to be taken TOGETHER.
    The DR release date was set in stone. Delaying it for months was never an option.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    Neither do I. My comment was not about e-peen, it was saying that as someone who has read the forums for a really long time, I have never seen anyone asking for a grind. That has nothing to do with e-peen, although it *does* show your mind seems to go to e-peen even when no one is talking about it, which is...interesting.
    The grind might be one of those "be careful what you wish for" things, IMO.

    It is not that unusual to hear people complain that there is "nothing to do" at endgame. Well, if you have to get 120 Spec Points, there is now suddenly a lot to do.

    Sure, some will claim. "But we just wanted more mission and content". But that's kinda a pointless wish. It should be evident that they cannot produce the amount of content needed to keep people busy with completely new stuff all the time. They released a lot of missions in Delta Rising, and following that, they delivered new missions about once per month. I don't think there was any year where in the game where we did get so many new missions.

    But - giving us specialization and Starship Masteries is giving people a goal to work for. For some weird psychological reason, killing mobs in Argala and Japori and Red Alerts is more satisfying when you get a "level up" ding along the way.


    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    I think they have settled on a direction they want to go. They have certain key elements they want to see implemented.

    They will go there, they will do that.

    Those brave tribble testers won’t change that and are just there to avoid bugs if possible.

    If the revamp is a good idea remains to be seen if when it hits live.

    From what I have read so far I remain extremely skeptical.
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  • vsilverwings1vsilverwings1 Member Posts: 572 Arc User
    It would be a first if they did listen. Expect them to push a system no one asked for and likely break it more than it currently is or break something else because If it ain't broke it ain't cryptic. They might fix it if it impacts their wallets or it means making actual new content but only after they've pushed it out and the damage is done.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    samt1996 wrote: »
    It makes me happy to see a DEV b**ch slap some morons in the face. I think I'mma cry now that was just beautiful. :D

    I like things being said how they need to be said.

    People don't appreciate how testing works, the fact people are complaining because we're having a levelling-based test is proof of that. It's also pathetic how people complain about this stuff when they haven't tested it, it really does suggest they don't care about what the outcome is.

    This quote is appropriate:
    They'll listen to all the feedback, but only implement the changes they think are within lines of the concept.

    There are always people that suggest completely new systems in place of the ones they are developing. That's pretty much useless feedback, because the core concepts of the system have been in the making weeks or months ago, and the whole team knows why they picked the solutions they picked and not the countless other possibilities. They are not going to present you the whole decision process, and any idea you come up within the confines of a post (or even multiples) will have had less thought put into then the system they have already released on Tribble, and more people will have seen and worked on it then on yours. And it has actually been implemented within the game, having dealt with any unforeseen complications already, and with all the knowledge about the internals that we'll never know about.

    What matters is details on specifics of the system. Inconsistencies. Bugs. Aspects that are unclear or badly explained. Things that do not work. Things that seem imbalanced. Things that seem counter-productive. There will assuredly plenty of that already, and getting this to work right will already take time.

    Feedback within the system will make a lot more sense. I've already given feedback that can work within those confines, that's productive. What isn't productive is whining about stuff that you haven't tested or making completely useless comments that don't work within the framework, and that framework has quite a fair space in it.
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  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Well said.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    What also isn't productive is the Developer stating that he looks forward to EVERY SINGLE POSTER IN THIS THREAD EAT CROW when the next update hits Tribble.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    He's spent six years being TRIBBLE on by these morons he deserves some revenge.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    You do realize you posted in this Thread. He made no distinctions.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Bort I just hope that in the end that pets are not the end all be all of the game. It looks that that is were things are heading from what I have gotten from playing around in Tribble. I for one cannot stand carriers give me my straight up cruisers and raptors. That said maybe it will force carrier players to finally act like they are carriers for once stand off and let the pets do the damage.
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