test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Gravity Waves Confirmed

2»

Comments

  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    daveyny wrote: »
    daveyny wrote: »
    bernatk wrote: »
    So... warp drives next week?

    Then we'll be doing this dance...

    https://youtu.be/tkplPbd2f60

    B)

    It's just a jump to the left...

    ...and then a step to the riiiiiiiight....

    B)
    put your hands on your hips!

    ..and bring your knees in tiiiiiiight!

    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
    upside-down-banana-smiley-emoticon.gif
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    There are no gravitational waves. They're all a hoax by NASA to cover up their illegal weapons testing in outer space.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • sander233sander233 Member Posts: 3,992 Arc User
    This also strongly indicates that gravity affects time, meaning time-travel is genuinely possible.
    16d89073-5444-45ad-9053-45434ac9498f.png~original

    ...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
    - Anne Bredon
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    sander233 wrote: »
    This also strongly indicates that gravity affects time, meaning time-travel is genuinely possible.

    The supposed time-machine allegedly used by John Titor was said to use some kind of gravity manipulation...
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    sander233 wrote: »
    This also strongly indicates that gravity affects time, meaning time-travel is genuinely possible.
    But that is not news. We actually need to account for the effect of gravity on time for our GPS navigation.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    The only effect on time is the (very small) effects of the Lorentz transformation. They certainly won't send you backward or anything. We do have confirmation of the (seemingly common-sense) proposition that gravity waves propagate at the speed of light, though - the radiotelescope observation of those spiraling black holes was simultaneous with the detection of the gravity waves.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    so, how long before we get something gravity wave-related to play with in STO now that they've been confirmed?

    preferably a boff power, not a clicky - those are always worthless because cryptic doesn't know to balance cooldown to relative power level​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    The only effect on time is the (very small) effects of the Lorentz transformation. They certainly won't send you backward or anything. We do have confirmation of the (seemingly common-sense) proposition that gravity waves propagate at the speed of light, though - the radiotelescope observation of those spiraling black holes was simultaneous with the detection of the gravity waves.
    A factory Apple I wouldn't be able to access the internet... That doesn't mean there is no internet... Your cell phone can't detect tachyons... That doesn't mean they're not there... ;) I refuse to accept the limits which contemporary science and physics insists upon, because it is based only on current understanding, or theory-crafted hypotheses which appear internally-consistent, but will no doubt eventually be debunked... The opening of Torchwood did state that this 'is when it all changes...' ;)

  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    so, how long before we get something gravity wave-related to play with in STO now that they've been confirmed?

    preferably a boff power, not a clicky - those are always worthless because cryptic doesn't know to balance cooldown to relative power level​​
    I think one of the early LC's featured gravity waves...
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    Marcus, physics are as they are. There may be discovered one day a way to traverse against entropy's arrow - but it won't involve gravity, nor Einsteinian physics. (In Trek, it can be done by using FTL to create a timelike path through the spatial distortion caused by a large mass, such as a star or a black hole; in Heinlein's Future History, the Long family worked it out after Lazarus' clone-daughter Lorelei Lee pointed out that the Libby Paradrive caused them to disassociate from the various axes of spacetime, so why not elect to re-integrate with the t-axis in an earlier time, similar to the way one re-integrates with the other three axes in the location one desires? Lazarus' initial response was, "I don't know, it feels like intentionally making a bad landing...", but eventually it worked out. And of course Penrose and Tipler showed how to do a timelike loop in normal spacetime, although that one does involve a cylinder of infinite length rotating at the speed of light...)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    I refuse to accept the limits which contemporary science and physics insists upon...

    I personally refuse to accept that I'm not 35lbs lighter but that doesn't make me less living in a fantasy of my own making based on my desires.
    <3
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Marcus, physics are as they are. There may be discovered one day a way to traverse against entropy's arrow - but it won't involve gravity, nor Einsteinian physics. (In Trek, it can be done by using FTL to create a timelike path through the spatial distortion caused by a large mass, such as a star or a black hole; in Heinlein's Future History, the Long family worked it out after Lazarus' clone-daughter Lorelei Lee pointed out that the Libby Paradrive caused them to disassociate from the various axes of spacetime, so why not elect to re-integrate with the t-axis in an earlier time, similar to the way one re-integrates with the other three axes in the location one desires? Lazarus' initial response was, "I don't know, it feels like intentionally making a bad landing...", but eventually it worked out. And of course Penrose and Tipler showed how to do a timelike loop in normal spacetime, although that one does involve a cylinder of infinite length rotating at the speed of light...)
    Yes, undeniably so, but that is also the crux of my point. Scientific understanding and technological capabilities grow with time. Are you familiar with the John Titor conversations? (I only ask before going off on a load of subjects you may or may not already be familiar with...)

  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    twg042370 wrote: »
    I refuse to accept the limits which contemporary science and physics insists upon...

    I personally refuse to accept that I'm not 35lbs lighter but that doesn't make me less living in a fantasy of my own making based on my desires.

    If you're going to quote me, please do so fully, so you can't try and take what I say out of context to then counter with a strawman. Had you not deliberately shortened my sentance, I said: "because it is based only on current understanding, or theory-crafted hypotheses which appear internally-consistent, but will no doubt eventually be debunked..."

    As I said above, scientific knowledge changes and grows. Some things which were once considered impossible, or at the very least fantastical, are now commonplace. It is not unreasonable to conclude that scientific knowledge will continue to advance, and is in no way the same as refusing to accept a factual reality, in favor of something whimsical...

  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    twg042370 wrote: »
    I refuse to accept the limits which contemporary science and physics insists upon...

    I personally refuse to accept that I'm not 35lbs lighter but that doesn't make me less living in a fantasy of my own making based on my desires.

    If you're going to quote me, please do so fully, so you can't try and take what I say out of context to then counter with a strawman. Had you not deliberately shortened my sentance, I said: "because it is based only on current understanding, or theory-crafted hypotheses which appear internally-consistent, but will no doubt eventually be debunked..."

    As I said above, scientific knowledge changes and grows. Some things which were once considered impossible,
    Where they really considered impossible? Or just hard to do, because we either lacked the mathematical finesse (or pure computing power) to analyze the details, or the engineering capabilities to build something with the neccessary qualities?


    The thing with the growth of scientific understanding is that it builds upon what came before.

    Newton developed a theory of mechanics and gravity. We found out there were inconsistencies with his predictions and actual observations. This lead to various discoveries - like planets not known about before that altered the path of observed planets so they now were consistent with Newton's theory again. And Einstein's relativity theory, who created a better fitting model for the cases where we couldn't find missing planets.

    There wasn't really a point where we looked back and said "Newton was totally off, gravity doesn't work".


    That said... Relativity Theory used on particular models of space time (that do not mimic our space time) allow time travel, and there are hypothetical configurations of mass and energy that could allow warping space time to allow a "kinda" FTL travel. Maybe there is a way to create these configurations. But they usually also imply some severe problems with causality if they are indeed possible. It could very well be that our growing scientific understanding will not reveal us ways to make this possible, but close off these as actual impossibilities.

    But if things like time travel are possible, it would basically mean either causality doesn't exist, or there is no free will. Both would be very weird to us.


    And if time travel is possible, why did no time traveler bother to show up at Hawking's invitation? :) Do they hate him or what?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Where they really considered impossible? Or just hard to do, because we either lacked the mathematical finesse (or pure computing power) to analyze the details, or the engineering capabilities to build something with the neccessary qualities?


    The thing with the growth of scientific understanding is that it builds upon what came before.

    Newton developed a theory of mechanics and gravity. We found out there were inconsistencies with his predictions and actual observations. This lead to various discoveries - like planets not known about before that altered the path of observed planets so they now were consistent with Newton's theory again. And Einstein's relativity theory, who created a better fitting model for the cases where we couldn't find missing planets.

    There wasn't really a point where we looked back and said "Newton was totally off, gravity doesn't work".


    That said... Relativity Theory used on particular models of space time (that do not mimic our space time) allow time travel, and there are hypothetical configurations of mass and energy that could allow warping space time to allow a "kinda" FTL travel. Maybe there is a way to create these configurations. But they usually also imply some severe problems with causality if they are indeed possible. It could very well be that our growing scientific understanding will not reveal us ways to make this possible, but close off these as actual impossibilities.

    But if things like time travel are possible, it would basically mean either causality doesn't exist, or there is no free will. Both would be very weird to us.


    And if time travel is possible, why did no time traveler bother to show up at Hawking's invitation? :) Do they hate him or what?
    I doubt global communications of the scale and quality we have was considered anything but a fantasy in Plato's time... That's the kind of quantum leaps in science and technological levels I'm talking about... The notion that what we currently consider 'cutting edge' is really no more than 'bone-knives and bearskins'... ;) [Edit to add] This is where I was going with the John Titor conversations. Some of the things which came up in the conversations, such as what his father did after the war (selling mobile internet) was not a thing at the time of those conversations. My theories, are that he was either a bored industry insider messing with people (ie knew wifi was being worked on) or, was a legit time traveller. As I mentioned, the time machine was said to manipulate gravity, a good ten, fifteen years before the discovery of gravity waves. Some inconsistencies can be explained/overlooked as divergent timelines, but some of the stuff... I don't know... As I said, I have two theories as to what he was...

    As for the second point, two options:
    a) Temporal Prime Directive (or something very similar, ie no notable historic events)
    b) It's possible, I certainly do... I can't stand the guy... Literally everything he does grates on me, and just makes him come across as a sanctimonious a55hole with a God-complex, who keeps appearing in pop-culture shows to try and keep himself relevant... I cannot stand him...
    Post edited by marcusdkane on
  • twg042370twg042370 Member Posts: 2,312 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    I said: "because it is based only on current understanding, or theory-crafted hypotheses which appear internally-consistent, but will no doubt eventually be debunked...

    Nope. Not interested in splitting the hairs of every sentence and it's still a position based on want. No straw involved because there's nothing to diminish.
    <3
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    twg042370 wrote: »
    I said: "because it is based only on current understanding, or theory-crafted hypotheses which appear internally-consistent, but will no doubt eventually be debunked...

    Nope. Not interested in splitting the hairs of every sentence and it's still a position based on want. No straw involved because there's nothing to diminish.
    Excuse me, but by intentionally cutting my sentence mid-point, you removed the salient points, so not only were you 'splitting the hairs of every sentence', yes, your comment was a strawman, because it was not a response to the sentiment of the full sentence which I had written.

    Someone who is fat telling themself that they are actually not, or that they are going to somehow miraculously lose weight by wishing it to happen, is delusional. Acknowledging that science continues to make new discoveries -- ergo the science we have now, is not only not the best science we will ever have, but will also be superceded with better understandings and better technology -- is simply rational observation.

    Back in the Seventies, the idea of something like a pocket-carryable mobile phone was fantasy. In the Eighties, they were portable, but certainly not pocket-carryable, and could only be used to, shock horror, make telephone calls... By the late Nineties/Early Naughties, cell phones could be used to send SMS messages and play a few games. The idea of someone using a cell phone as a remote control (as seen in Tomorrow Never Dies) was still cutting edge and out of the public domain. Some phones had limited WAP net access, some had cameras, but very low megapixel ratings. Modern cell phones have cameras as good as a small pocket camera, have almost full access to the internet, and be used as remote controlls from things such as home heating systems (Hive) and toys (BB-8, and probably drone-copters too)

    That's just one example of a significant leap forward in technology and scientific capability, and in less than forty years. Go show Plato an iPhone 7 and explain how he can use it to read virtually the sum of all Human knowledge, as well as take an instant picture while doing it. It would be considered, depending on the person, the part of the world, as anything ranging from miraculous, to heretical witchcraft...

    Now consider what advances science will make in the next forty years, the next four centuries, the next four thousand years... One day, the iPhone 7 will be viewed in the same way we view blowing into a horn, lighting signal-fires, or sending smoke signals...

    So, if you want to believe that science isn't going to keep improving and giving us more knowledge, that's your right, feel free. Just don't expect me to agree with you...
Sign In or Register to comment.