I always thought the Klingons got their cloak tech after that early episode of enterprise where trip got pregnant. Those aliens had been "latched" on to the Klingons and in order to not get blown up they traded their holo technology. The Klinglons don't seem like the type where the crew is playing with sherlock holmes or chilling in a 50's hotel in vegas. Since they saw the aliens use the same technology cloak their ship, just kind of made sense to me that the Klingons would just apply the technology the same way.
I always understood the Klingons got cloaking Techology from the Trade agrrement with the Romulans. Where the Klingons-exchanged D-7 Hulls and plans for the Cloak. This was hinted at in the TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident". Real reason the Romulans had the D-7 was the studio model of the Bird of PRey from Balence of Terror had been destroyed in some accident in the storage facility at Paramount.
Yes, that was the prevailing theory until TNG came about. As TNG and DS9 expanded the histories of both races it became less and less likely to have happened. Once ENT came out and showed two other sources for Klingons to get cloaks that would't require surrendering anything to the Romulans (even a handful of ships), it is now a completely unnecessary explanation for the presence of Klingon cloaks and Romulan D7s.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Wait people are in frenzy over Quad Phaser Cannons? Hello Feds have had this since the Defiant Teir 4 or whatever it is. In other words a very long time.
Who is in "frenzy" about the quad cannons? KDF have those as well. Nobody is, the fuzz is about the Defaint with a three-piece-set getting a battle cloak and that - somehow, for whatever reason - means everybody playing a KDF char can now uninstall the game.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Wait people are in frenzy over Quad Phaser Cannons? Hello Feds have had this since the Defiant Teir 4 or whatever it is. In other words a very long time.
Who is in "frenzy" about the quad cannons? KDF have those as well. Nobody is, the fuzz is about the Defaint with a three-piece-set getting a battle cloak and that - somehow, for whatever reason - means everybody playing a KDF char can now uninstall the game.
I'm not uninstalling the game. I don't mind this one bit. More than a few big time KDF main players also don't mind. One or two throwing a temper tantrum over this one ship getting the one well paid for feature does not speak for me.
LOL, one Fed ship having a battle cloak at the cost of a 3-piece set requirement is not going to completely tank all the cloak advantages KDF and Rom ships have. I am of the opinion that all cloaking devices in this game should be integrated into the ship and be battle cloaks by default, since standard cloaks are basically worthless once combat starts, so this is a welcome change.
If you're worried about balance, just have Romulan battle cloaks recharge much faster, have a higher stealth value, and provide a greater damage boost than Fed and KDF battle cloaks. That way Romulans still have superior cloaking technology, but every cloak-capable ship can reap the benefits of being able to disappear while in combat.
The "DOOOOM!"-ness of this post is a little bit much considering when you consider the actual implications of this scenario, wouldn't you say?
LOL, one Fed ship having a battle cloak at the cost of a 3-piece set requirement is not going to completely tank all the cloak advantages KDF and Rom ships have. I am of the opinion that all cloaking devices in this game should be integrated into the ship and be battle cloaks by default, since standard cloaks are basically worthless once combat starts, so this is a welcome change.
If you're worried about balance, just have Romulan battle cloaks recharge much faster, have a higher stealth value, and provide a greater damage boost than Fed and KDF battle cloaks. That way Romulans still have superior cloaking technology, but every cloak-capable ship can reap the benefits of being able to disappear while in combat.
The "DOOOOM!"-ness of this post is a little bit much considering when you consider the actual implications of this scenario, wouldn't you say?
To be technically correct, the Romulan Battle Cloaks already:
Recharge much faster
Have a higher stealth value
Provide a greater damage boost than Fed and KDF Battle Cloaks
Romulan and Reman BOFF Traits of the Romulan Republic set their cloak capability head and shoulders above **ANYTHING** capable by the Fed and even KDF. The Feds & KDF struggle to fit 1-2 SRO into a build. They do not access the same way of Superior Subterfuge and/or Infiltrator/Superior Infiltrator trait combinations that the Rom player can.
My Reman SCI Captain can get her cloaks to give +45% Bonus Damage coming out of cloaks to last 23 seconds with roughly 12 second recharge timer. She can recloak **BEFORE** the buff wears off.
KDF cannot approach that level of Decloaking damage bonus, duration. The buff duration is 5 seconds, a far cry from my Reman's 23 seconds which isn't even a contest. With Embassy SRO the best I can do is take the BOP's recloak timer to about 16 seconds. 4 seconds is a big deal especially in PVP. Feds prospecting into Battle Cloak with the Defiant with the recent buff will fall into the same camp.
In addition, KDF & Feds do not have the same sheer level of +Defense that the Roms get with their fabulous BOFF traits, which just ooze +Defense all over the place. It is the reason why a Warbird can get away with cloaking under fire while a BOP will get instantly annihilated trying the same ploy. Feds will find that out sooner or later on the Defiant.
Fed & KDF can try to put in better Subterfuge for more stealth and more importantly, higher Decloaking Damage Bonus but that forces them to slot the worst Embassy BOFFs. They also cannot access any version of Infiltrator for more +Defense, more stealth, prolonging the Decloaking Damage Bonus buff.
The Romulan Republic player can attain this level of high powered cloak capability and still have a full BOFF crew with SRO.
I've used the Battle cloaks from the other factions... I felt no particular advantage while playing an Advanced ISE with my Defiant battle cloak, I was still destroyed by a Borg cube with their torps tracking me even after I cloaked, therefore no shields, and was blown up multiple times.
I always thought the Klingons got their cloak tech after that early episode of enterprise where trip got pregnant. Those aliens had been "latched" on to the Klingons and in order to not get blown up they traded their holo technology. The Klinglons don't seem like the type where the crew is playing with sherlock holmes or chilling in a 50's hotel in vegas. Since they saw the aliens use the same technology cloak their ship, just kind of made sense to me that the Klingons would just apply the technology the same way.
I always understood the Klingons got cloaking Techology from the Trade agrrement with the Romulans. Where the Klingons-exchanged D-7 Hulls and plans for the Cloak. This was hinted at in the TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident". Real reason the Romulans had the D-7 was the studio model of the Bird of PRey from Balence of Terror had been destroyed in some accident in the storage facility at Paramount.
Yes, that was the prevailing theory until TNG came about. As TNG and DS9 expanded the histories of both races it became less and less likely to have happened. Once ENT came out and showed two other sources for Klingons to get cloaks that would't require surrendering anything to the Romulans (even a handful of ships), it is now a completely unnecessary explanation for the presence of Klingon cloaks and Romulan D7s.
Although there's the (frankly hilarious, imo) version of that theory: namely that both sides shafted each other on the deal. The Klingons thought they were getting top of the line cloaks...but actually got second rate models that the Federation could already detect (if they were suspicious enough to start looking). Meanwhile the Romulans/Rihannsu thought they were getting brand new D7 hulls...but actually got mothballed D6s...that were on the point of falling apart...and the deal hadn't said anything about spare parts...and the Klingons were charging through the nose for them...and, to borrow a line, the Klingons might build good guns, but their interest in ship hulls is mostly in blowing them up.
What fleet? Three in 'The Enterprise Incident' one in 'The Survivor' and three in 'The Practical Joker'. That's even being generous enough to assume they are all different ships and not the same three in different paint jobs.
Why should we even assume it's the same ships in different paint jobs? Why is it feasible to assume they repainted the ship for whatever purpose? If the ship appears in canon and looks different it is a different ship as long as it isn't identified as the same ship. Everything else is wild speculation.
Even if we assume it's just eight, why would the Romulans steal eight ships and patrol the Klingon territory with them to "mock" the Klingons? The Klingons would roflstomp them for such a provocation and they know that, it wouldn't make sense from the Romulan in-character perspective, UNLESS provoking a war would somehow benefit them. Considering how sub-par their ships were (minus the cloak) I wouldn't expect a war with the Klingons to have any advantage for the RSE.
That's at least my reasoning.
We don't have to assume that, I'm just making a point it's still a small number of ships.
They also don't have to have stolen them for that reason. It could be the Romulans built them for a false flag type operation (making the Federation think the Klingons were attacking) which was cancelled, so the just stuck Romulan paintjobs on them and pushed them into normal service.
Also, the Romulans are massively into goading the Klingons, they do it repeatedly during DS9, even when allied against the Dominion, pushing just hard enough to wind up the Klingons, but not far enough for war.
Although there's the (frankly hilarious, imo) version of that theory: namely that both sides shafted each other on the deal. The Klingons thought they were getting top of the line cloaks...but actually got second rate models that the Federation could already detect (if they were suspicious enough to start looking). Meanwhile the Romulans/Rihannsu thought they were getting brand new D7 hulls...but actually got mothballed D6s...that were on the point of falling apart...and the deal hadn't said anything about spare parts...and the Klingons were charging through the nose for them...and, to borrow a line, the Klingons might build good guns, but their interest in ship hulls is mostly in blowing them up.
Though that is kinda funny, I doubt the Romulans would continue to use the D6 once they found out how bad it was, and the Klingons still have the Sulaban and Xyrillians cloaks to fall back on.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
MA: According to the Star Trek Chronology the line regarding a Romulan-Klingon Alliance was added to "Reunion" to explain the Romulan use of D7s..
The chronology is written by the Okuda's. I don't own it, so I don't know what the above sentence refers to, but if they indeed did include the line behind-the-scenes for that purpose I think the point is clear. Of course not explicitly spelled out in canon but not much point to search for other theories as they basically cannot be true. Anyone have that book and can look it up?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
MA: According to the Star Trek Chronology the line regarding a Romulan-Klingon Alliance was added to "Reunion" to explain the Romulan use of D7s..
The chronology is written by the Okuda's. I don't own it, so I don't know what the above sentence refers to, but if they indeed did include the line behind-the-scenes for that purpose I think the point is clear. Of course not explicitly spelled out in canon but not much point to search for other theories as they basically cannot be true. Anyone have that book and can look it up?
But again, evidence from early TNG is superseded by evidence from DS9 and ENT.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
Yes, that was the prevailing theory until TNG came about. As TNG and DS9 expanded the histories of both races it became less and less likely to have happened. Once ENT came out and showed two other sources for Klingons to get cloaks that would't require surrendering anything to the Romulans (even a handful of ships), it is now a completely unnecessary explanation for the presence of Klingon cloaks and Romulan D7s.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Who is in "frenzy" about the quad cannons? KDF have those as well. Nobody is, the fuzz is about the Defaint with a three-piece-set getting a battle cloak and that - somehow, for whatever reason - means everybody playing a KDF char can now uninstall the game.
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I'm not uninstalling the game. I don't mind this one bit. More than a few big time KDF main players also don't mind. One or two throwing a temper tantrum over this one ship getting the one well paid for feature does not speak for me.
My sentiments exactly!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
To be technically correct, the Romulan Battle Cloaks already:
Recharge much faster
Have a higher stealth value
Provide a greater damage boost than Fed and KDF Battle Cloaks
Romulan and Reman BOFF Traits of the Romulan Republic set their cloak capability head and shoulders above **ANYTHING** capable by the Fed and even KDF. The Feds & KDF struggle to fit 1-2 SRO into a build. They do not access the same way of Superior Subterfuge and/or Infiltrator/Superior Infiltrator trait combinations that the Rom player can.
My Reman SCI Captain can get her cloaks to give +45% Bonus Damage coming out of cloaks to last 23 seconds with roughly 12 second recharge timer. She can recloak **BEFORE** the buff wears off.
KDF cannot approach that level of Decloaking damage bonus, duration. The buff duration is 5 seconds, a far cry from my Reman's 23 seconds which isn't even a contest. With Embassy SRO the best I can do is take the BOP's recloak timer to about 16 seconds. 4 seconds is a big deal especially in PVP. Feds prospecting into Battle Cloak with the Defiant with the recent buff will fall into the same camp.
In addition, KDF & Feds do not have the same sheer level of +Defense that the Roms get with their fabulous BOFF traits, which just ooze +Defense all over the place. It is the reason why a Warbird can get away with cloaking under fire while a BOP will get instantly annihilated trying the same ploy. Feds will find that out sooner or later on the Defiant.
Fed & KDF can try to put in better Subterfuge for more stealth and more importantly, higher Decloaking Damage Bonus but that forces them to slot the worst Embassy BOFFs. They also cannot access any version of Infiltrator for more +Defense, more stealth, prolonging the Decloaking Damage Bonus buff.
The Romulan Republic player can attain this level of high powered cloak capability and still have a full BOFF crew with SRO.
So there ya go.
Although there's the (frankly hilarious, imo) version of that theory: namely that both sides shafted each other on the deal. The Klingons thought they were getting top of the line cloaks...but actually got second rate models that the Federation could already detect (if they were suspicious enough to start looking). Meanwhile the Romulans/Rihannsu thought they were getting brand new D7 hulls...but actually got mothballed D6s...that were on the point of falling apart...and the deal hadn't said anything about spare parts...and the Klingons were charging through the nose for them...and, to borrow a line, the Klingons might build good guns, but their interest in ship hulls is mostly in blowing them up.
We don't have to assume that, I'm just making a point it's still a small number of ships.
They also don't have to have stolen them for that reason. It could be the Romulans built them for a false flag type operation (making the Federation think the Klingons were attacking) which was cancelled, so the just stuck Romulan paintjobs on them and pushed them into normal service.
Also, the Romulans are massively into goading the Klingons, they do it repeatedly during DS9, even when allied against the Dominion, pushing just hard enough to wind up the Klingons, but not far enough for war.
Though that is kinda funny, I doubt the Romulans would continue to use the D6 once they found out how bad it was, and the Klingons still have the Sulaban and Xyrillians cloaks to fall back on.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
MA: According to the Star Trek Chronology the line regarding a Romulan-Klingon Alliance was added to "Reunion" to explain the Romulan use of D7s..
The chronology is written by the Okuda's. I don't own it, so I don't know what the above sentence refers to, but if they indeed did include the line behind-the-scenes for that purpose I think the point is clear. Of course not explicitly spelled out in canon but not much point to search for other theories as they basically cannot be true. Anyone have that book and can look it up?
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But again, evidence from early TNG is superseded by evidence from DS9 and ENT.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!