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The Federation Ship Prefix Discussion
flash525
Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
in Ten Forward
As we all know very well, the Federation uses the USS prefix on their ships. The Klingon Empire uses the prefix IKS, and the Romulan Star Empire uses the prefix IRW, or in some cases (ST: Nemesis) PWB. STO has also introduced RRW as a prefix for Republic ships, and there are other prefix labels for ships of the Gorn and Orion vessels, among others.
What does USS actually stand for though? Does it stand for anything? Should it even be USS? To my knowledge, it's never been stated in any show or film. I can only assume it's suppose to mean United or Unified or something similar to that, but wouldn't an F have been the better choice instead of a U, thus resulting in Federation Star Ship (FSS)?
I'm not here suggesting the devs change anything by the way, this is purely a discussion on Trek (specifically, the Federation) at it's core.
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Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
...would FSS (or something different) be more suitable? I know everyone has probably become assigned with the USS prefix now, so anything else on a Federation ship just wouldn't look right, from from a logical/consistency point of view?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
maybe but it's too late now
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
UFP starships not associated with Starfleet usually have a "SS" prefix which probably only stands for "Star Ship" or "Space Ship".
There's no reason to have something else. Cryptic/STO assigns a prefix for every faction and species, although there was never any indication something like that was even used by all space faring civilizations. The "national" prefixes of VSS (Vulcan) or CSS, TSS and the Andorian one are probably not used "actually" and they are just in for customization.
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However, the explanations given above are canon for the designation. (The real reason was probably that TOS was being produced in the 1960s, and Roddenberry didn't want to have to deal with right-wing reaction to the concept of a future in which the US wasn't a big deal.)
There is even an epsiode where we get to see Kirk et al. "fanwank" all over the US constitution. It's one of the more painful episodes
The NCC has a behind-the-scenes explanation of being the fusion of the civilian aircraft registry prefix of the US and a soviet code, illustrating some sense of cooperation. Another one is it just looked good. Who knows.
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Edit: Not sure about NX though...
Naval eXperiment
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
You mean things like: K.I.S. (Krenim Imperium/Imperial Ship)?, C.U.V. (Cardassian Union Vessel)?, R.R.W. (Romulan Republic Warbird)? K.D.C. (Kobali Defense Cruiser)?
These prefixes are un-inventive and bad. lets try something better: Krenim: I.S.V (Imperial Space Vessel) Cardassian: Order number and ship type (Keldon class in Third Order) T.O.C.W. (Third Order Command Warship), Romulan Republic: R.S.W (Republic Star Warbird), now K.D.C. is actually not that bad so Im not revising it
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Blown away by the fact that the NX-01 was known only as Enterprise and not the UESS Enterprise.
The Naval Construction Contract is only mentioned in the Franz-Josef manual and I personally think this is too close to real life. Also, why should Starfleet star ships designed "Naval"? They aren't a navy.
From MA:
The use of NCC as a prefix for Starfleet registry numbers, Matt Jefferies said that the registries for American civil aircraft are preceded by NC, and Soviet craft used a prefix of CCCC, and as such, he more-or-less combined the two. His philosophy was, "If we do anything in space, we (Americans and Russians) have to do it together." [X]wbm In contrast, the Star Trek Encyclopedia (2nd ed., p. 317) claims that the second C was just an arbitrary addition to make the registry look better.
I personally have no headcanon what NCC stands for and I don't mind. It's not important - I like the cooperative approach, but as I said, somewhere else I read they used it because it just looked good on the TV screen since they had to use huge (like immensely huge) text on the hull to be recognisable on old TVs
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I like "Numbered Construction Code", it gets rid of the terran navy reference and makes sense.
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Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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example: NCC - 1701 is The Enterprise
NCF - 1701 is a frigate with the same hull number
NCB - 1701 would be a Battleship
NCD - 1701 would be a destroyer
NCS - 1701 would be a science ship
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Ah... but Registry numbers were generally unique to a given starship. And generally different classes did have a range, such as the Constitution being 1700. Normally if a ship was destroyed, a future ship that would bear the name would have a different registry number, such as the Defiant from TOS being 1764 and the Defiant from DS9 being 74205.
So you would never see two ships of different classes with the same registry number.
As to adding the letter suffex to a registry number, before the Enterprise-A that didn't exist. They ignored tradition and gave the new Enterprise the registry number of predesessor as an honor for Kirk and his crew's service. And since then every Enterprise since then has had 1701-(suffex) because Enterprise is so iconic.
I attribute the prefixes to something similar to aircraft.
NX is for prototypes, just like prototype military planes are X-(insert number)
NCC is the standard.
NCV seems to be for timeships like the Relativity.
NAR... not a frickin' clue. Maybe for Civilian Contractor or Surplus.
Sometimes you have informational advantages when accessing the Federation Database- the public one that is.
Err... sometimes it helps to read the thread. You're not bringing anything new to the table. And "Naval Construction Code" is not canon
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NCC - Non Canon Code.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Nailed it.
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You can still have the unique registry numbers by giving them a different designator. In the US Navy (I realize someone in this thread is ready to jump on me for suggesting anything terran Navy be applied to Star Trek) we have BB-64 and CV-64...BB being the designator for Battleship and CV being the designator for Carrier. You'll never mix the two ships apart because of the designator. And then you can change things up by having cruisers be four numbered and 1700 be the Connie. 1800 be the Excelsiors. For the larger dreadnoughts they get a two number designator...for the smaller ships...defiant class three numbers....this way if in the future we aren't basing a show on a ship with a six, seven or eight number registry.
I know why the "A" was added in story...I am just not a fan of it. The name "Enterprise" alone should be enough.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Only thing that has a basis is that ships smaller than runabouts do not get a registry of their own but use their mother ship's number with a suffix. A runabout and up is considered independent craft and sport their own name and registry.
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it was in jest...
My thinking is that the registries should differentiate between class of ships. The Connie 1700 listing doesn't work when you consider that there were only supposed to be 12 and the Defiant (Connie Class) was 1764.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It falls apart even before that (MA):
NCC-1700
NCC-1707
USS Ahwahnee (NCC-2048)
USS Constellation (NCC-1017)
USS Defiant (NCC-1764)5
USS Eagle (NCC-956)
USS Emden (NCC-1856)
USS Endeavour (NCC-1895)
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701)
USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-A)
USS Excalibur (NCC-1664)
USS Exeter (NCC-1672)
USS Hood (NCC-1703)
USS Intrepid (NCC-1631)
USS Korolev (NCC-2014)
USS Lexington (NCC-1709)
USS Potemkin (NCC-1659)
All constitution class ships of verified canon appearance
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So...
Piece of Debris: C-1864
Still enough to identify it as the USS Reliant.
Its like tail numbers on a plane. Unique to that particular unit. The only real anomaly outside of 22nd Century registries is the Defiant. The prototype was NX-74205, which follows established rules, but her successor was originally the Sao Palo and was renamed to Defiant and was NCC-74205. Technically she could have had the -A suffex to id her as the second ship with that registry number. Rules probably got muddy when we go from a prototype to a production model though.