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Risa Summer Event 2016: clothing suggestion
risian4
Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
Perhaps it is a bit strange to start a discussion about the Risa event now that everyone is getting excited for the Anniversary event that starts tomorrow. But I'd like to get the discussion going now, to increase the odds of suggestions being incorporated in the next Summer event. Assuming there will be one, and that it will be Risa-themed like previous years of course.
I'm fairly certain this has been proposed before. The idea would be to remove any and all limitations on clothing*, at least for the next Summer event.
Basically what I'm proposing is that, if a male character wants to walk around in a bikini or any other clothing pieces that are currently restricted to females, it should be possible. And vice-versa. Restrictions on the personal freedom of what somebody's allowed to wear - as long as general ideas of decency are respected and specific body parts are covered - are already silly in many countries today, in the 21st century. A 24th/25th century, where personal freedom (in the economic as well as the social sense) is considered one of the most valuable achievements should not keep up with these outdated views of how 'males' and 'females' should dress when they go to the beach, or wherever for that matter. These restrictions, that may even be considered suppression of the individual by socially determined gender roles, are already changing as I write this.
So besides making sense from a storyline perspective - since it would be a continuation of current trends - it would also provide support to anyone who does not identify with the socially determined role patterns, of which clothing styles are just one part of course. Star Trek has always been about social justice. Supporting transgender and cross-dresser lifestyles and identities by even allowing them to exist in-game would be a step in the right direction.
Trek has become famous for its progressive stances: the kiss between Kirk and Uhura, the actions of two 'female' Trills, the removal of economic restrictions on the individual and the end of dominance of financial systems and incentives in regulating everything we do (Picard in first contact for example). In-game we have the Klingon pair. I'm actually surprised that, with each event, we still get clothing that are available only to male or female characters.
* I can understand, though, that topless females are not (yet) acceptable. So perhaps not all limitations should be removed, but gradually removing restrictions might be a good first step. I see no reason why a male character cannot be allowed to wear a bikini, for example.
I'm fairly certain this has been proposed before. The idea would be to remove any and all limitations on clothing*, at least for the next Summer event.
Basically what I'm proposing is that, if a male character wants to walk around in a bikini or any other clothing pieces that are currently restricted to females, it should be possible. And vice-versa. Restrictions on the personal freedom of what somebody's allowed to wear - as long as general ideas of decency are respected and specific body parts are covered - are already silly in many countries today, in the 21st century. A 24th/25th century, where personal freedom (in the economic as well as the social sense) is considered one of the most valuable achievements should not keep up with these outdated views of how 'males' and 'females' should dress when they go to the beach, or wherever for that matter. These restrictions, that may even be considered suppression of the individual by socially determined gender roles, are already changing as I write this.
So besides making sense from a storyline perspective - since it would be a continuation of current trends - it would also provide support to anyone who does not identify with the socially determined role patterns, of which clothing styles are just one part of course. Star Trek has always been about social justice. Supporting transgender and cross-dresser lifestyles and identities by even allowing them to exist in-game would be a step in the right direction.
Trek has become famous for its progressive stances: the kiss between Kirk and Uhura, the actions of two 'female' Trills, the removal of economic restrictions on the individual and the end of dominance of financial systems and incentives in regulating everything we do (Picard in first contact for example). In-game we have the Klingon pair. I'm actually surprised that, with each event, we still get clothing that are available only to male or female characters.
* I can understand, though, that topless females are not (yet) acceptable. So perhaps not all limitations should be removed, but gradually removing restrictions might be a good first step. I see no reason why a male character cannot be allowed to wear a bikini, for example.
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Comments
This is a game, not a platform to make political statements. Cryptic/PWE are here to make money, not get themselves plastered on the Fox News nightly lineup. You will definitely not and should not see topless female characters running around. It's not an adult anime game after all.
What we really need this summer, is to eliminate "nude" colors from swimsuits as color options.
@valarauko43 , I'm not suggesting that clothing restrictions with respect to certain locations are removed. Risa summer clothing would still be restricted to the Risa summer event map. Whether or not this is something that should be changed is a different discussion, I'm just focussing on gender-related restrictions on that same map. Perhaps I should have made that a bit more clear.
@salazarraze , Contrary to popular belief, not all Caitian players are E-RP'ers. The only reason I'm playing Caitian's is because they make good ground toons. And for the record: I usually wear MACO gear or Odyssey uniforms. No need to insinuate things.
As for the statement thing: it's not necessarily a political statement. And who cares what FOX would think of it? This is a Star Trek game. Trek is known for its progressive POV. If FOX doesn't like that, then so be it. There will always be people or companies who disagree with statements, if everyone agreed there wouldn't be a need to make a statement, right?
@annemarie30 ,
And that alone is enough reason to make this change, since this is not how certain minorities view themselves. 50 years ago, 'the vast majority' believed it was inappropriate for a man and woman with different skin colours to kiss on-screen.
'The vast majority' should never get to decide on personal issues like clothing. Maybe while on-duty, either on your ship's bridge or while being part of an away team, but not on a vacation map.
Also, more generally speaking, the bikini example may have been a bit extreme. This issue caught my eye when someone was suggesting, a while ago, that male characters should have access to the cropped winter jackets. Obviously, asking for such a change now would not make sense so I'm focussing on the Summer event and its clothing instead.
Female Ferengi are already allowed to wear clothes now I think. They're no longer forced to be naked all day.
For the Betazoid thing: that's a whole different discussion, since they'd have to add a 'no clothing' option, which is entirely different from what I'm suggesting here. I'm talking about clothes that are already in the game, like the bikini's and the cropped winter jackets that would only have their gender-related restrictions removed on the maps where they are currently allowed.
this sort of militant rage validates every point made about keeping politics out of the game.
I think a mod needs to shut this down and add political threads to the FCT. people come to play STO to play a game and escape from real world problems, including politics.
The game is based on a franchise that was often a social critique. And like all cultural expressions - television series, books or games based upon those - there's more to a game than just its mere entertainment value.
If you don't want to discuss it, then don't. Claiming that I'm on a 'militant rage' while I'm only defending my opinion and responding to insinuations doesn't make any sense. You're the one who's calling for a mod to close a thread that you don't want to discuss. You're free not to discuss it.
Not my fault that people start making insinuations about my avatar or Caitians in general, talk about FOX or make it a political issue. There's an important difference between a political and a social issue.
I know perfectly well that political issues should not be discussed, which is why I'm not doing it.
Canonically, of course, we've seen some efforts towards a "unisex" clothing look in the series, most notably with the "skant" seen in some first-season episodes of TNG. I'm sure we all would like to see skants in the game, right? (As an option. No way any of my toons - male, female, or you-pinkskins-have-such-limited-genders - would be seen dead in one.)
I'm all for gender equality and things, but there are about a thousand and one things that need fixing in this game already, and I'm not sure "Bras for Men" deserves any priority above, say, 1,002.
When I said I wanted to drag race in STO this was not what I said in mind.
A valid objection. I don't know how much time it would take, but I can surely understand that, if they ever consider to implement these changes, it wouldn't be a priority.
That's why I launched the idea now though, cause it has often been stated that events are planned about 6 months in advance. So they might have some ability to include any changes that are suggested now.
great now Ive given myself the mental image of a bullish klingon female in KHG set with a strap-on chasing vaadwaur through trenches on kobali prime while a transgendered, topless, tovan follows her TRIBBLE a jigglin....
where did I leave that eye bleach....
Actually not a bad idea. As long as you add bikinis to males.
Like war? You really can't have it both ways. If the game doesn't matter then what people are or are not allowed to do is equally irrelevant. If the game does matter then you can't avoid progressive social statements made in TNG Season 1 from affecting some areas of content.
That said, (this is to the OP) while Star Trek had progressive messages if you dig into Federation culture you don't see those same ideas expressed consistently across the IP. If you look at Federation clothing in particular it's surprisingly restrained (by in large) in later eras from what you could imagine of the future (ex. Larry Niven's Earth). It's certainly a free creative choice to do something else (whatever Cryptic wants to make we get) but if you want to argue for what's appropriate for the FED in 2410 then constraint is a valid (if not actually the most plausible) option. It may not be the most progressive statement possible for a generally progressive IP but it continues an interesting dynamic between FED statements and social practices (which is worth delving into if you want to think about how society might work in the Star Trek universe. People are still people, cultural biases have not gone away.)
So, that's the middle ground. We can move on.
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Having such freedoms, and more (private instances that verify your age and are invite-only) would in no way impose on the freedoms of another (private instances - don't like freedoms offered there, don't go there).
The irony is, while everyone generally understands the value of 'personal freedoms, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.' asking for our own personal freedom of choice with greater in-game options such as allowing toon gender change, unlocking clothing options, is met with strong opposition, accusations of all sorts, and inability to discuss things from a mature point of view because inevitably things get locked down as a result of a few who can't have that and can't or won't play by the rules.
I agree about this, of prioritizing actual game-breaking issues first, and making sure the server's lights stay on. Even if one or a few such options do make their way into the game, such as private invite-only instances, toon gender change options, I very much doubt it would require significant coding or risk causing instability. Clothing I also see as being fairly flexible by default in having to cater to different species so perhaps some might even work without clipping issues.
As an added note, most of this is in support for those who would want to have such options. I'm perfectly fine with my toons being as they are, and for the many awesome clothing options offered on Risa and that otherwise make it in game. But I too would like my only Betazoid to be able to roam some private instance of Risa with friends/invites only even if it means costing some one-time dilithium fee.
As for the OPs suggestion, I don't see all of that happening in STO because it would involve work on appearance items without actually generating profits. I'd be happy if I could use boardshorts off-duty.
The limit on men wearing male clothing and women wearing female clothing is not some moralistic stance. Males and Females in our game are based on completely different skeletons. That means that anything made for one, does not necessarily work for the other, and that anything made for both, essentially has to be made twice.
So, if we wanted men to be able to wear bikinis, it's not just some switch we flip to allow it, it means recreating the bikini on the male skeleton.
Doing that for *everything* would take a tremendous amount of work, and take quite a while to accomplish, all for questionable gains.
I was indeed not aware of this. Thanks for clarifying it.
I understand, I was jesting. I find the thread amusing anyway.
No worries. I agree with you on a fundamental level, but from a Game Dev level it's not so easy.
I heard rumours that cryptic was working with a skeleton crew..
As Tacofangs said, re-making ALL outfits would be a vast undertaking. But I'd say, having *some* made for both genders.. ex. the suits for females, and skant as an option for males, would be a great first step towards some of the progress Trek showed. All in favor of washing away gender-expectations - as people are people first. The gender should not be a definition, nor pose an expectations someone is supposed to fill in. It's a choice, one which should everyone be able to make.
But, in a game-enviroment, and from game developer stances; compromises are required due to time constraits, and they have to make choices carefully where to invest the time. As it's not like in real life, we can put on clothes we want; they actually have to model these things to fit an pre-existing skeleton.
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And yet you are the one to toss epithets in "defense" of your position. Name calling is the first fallback when you have no grOund to stand on
Good luck with that. I hear topless males are already controversial