Building the Jupiter

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  • mmps1
    mmps1 Member Posts: 381 Arc User
    Well at least this thread has been good for something. Looks like cryptic finally realised there was very limited rom or kdf sci options.

    Mind you, I'm still feeling sad for the poor feds and their limited sci ship options :'(
    "Mr talks down to the peasants."
  • pwlaughingtrendy
    pwlaughingtrendy Member Posts: 2,966 Arc User
    Yes. I get it. Romulan and KDF ships.

    I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.
    moobucket wrote: »
    ... too bad the Klingons and Romulans don't feel this kind of love.

    8927bbd7bd8c993aed851e29fa08648a1448305020.jpg

  • sevenofnine13141
    sevenofnine13141 Member Posts: 4,265 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Yes. I get it. Romulan and KDF ships.

    I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.
    moobucket wrote: »
    ... too bad the Klingons and Romulans don't feel this kind of love.

    8927bbd7bd8c993aed851e29fa08648a1448305020.jpg
    The Q image is suitable for what Moobucket just said... picard-facepalm-face-palm.jpg
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  • angarus1
    angarus1 Member Posts: 683 Arc User
    But I want it now!



    :p
  • alcyoneserene
    alcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    Yes. I get it. Romulan and KDF ships.

    I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.

    Science ships, that is, and yes please. Very excited now that The Trendy is on it! Time to buy some zen for a Romulan one.

    More Fed Sci would be welcome as well of course after the fact.
    Are these light escorts equippable on the Atrox? What about on the Command Cruisers? My guess would be yes to the first one and no to the second.

    Also wondering about this.

    Fairly nice looking Jupiter. For constructive feedback, as someone's already mentioned, I too wish the deflector wasn't so defined, and instead more simple while and rectangular with some more faint texture highlights, as well as the dual beams running up the center saucer being curved as in the concept art as opposed to straight. Also the aft section of the saucer looks a little cut off and like it could use a little something. Real nice otherwise, especially the hull generally, and those warp nacelles.

    'Scratch the Paint' pilot trait on pets really needs to be standard on all pets including separation units. They have to keep up with the carrier and not trail way behild. Enemy NPCs needs to draw more aggro from them, and especially carrier commands need to respond properly and more promptly.

    Design your Ship vote was also real nice to see, and hope you'll run it again on more ships in the future.
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  • highlandrise
    highlandrise Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    (...)

    IS: +10 Shield Power, +10 Auxiliary Power
    SHOULD: +10 Shield Power, +10 Weapons Power
    (...)

    Carriers use their pets to deal damage. Auxilliary power makes pets better (spawn faster). Weapon power on a carrier is generally only a secondary stat, so having it boos aux makes perfect sense.

    There are enough battlecruisers already methinks.​​

    This is no Battlecruiser, its a Carrier, and better dont tell me that we have enough Battle Carrier, cause Feds have NONE, and lobi / lockbox Ships dont count. And the Point that you mentioned with the Power levels is the smallest Issue that can be ignored, BUT the Boff and Weapons Layout and also the Console Layout are nothing but a Dissapointment.

    Also "use their Pets to deal damage"...yea cause pets are SOOOOO totaly reliable....."Hey look there is a Warpcore Breach, lets have a look! WEEEEEEE *BOOM*"
  • kelettes
    kelettes Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Well, the Caitian's out of the bag, the goal was to replace the old Jupiter class from the start, regardless of which design won the contest :smile: I was never a fan of what I always considered a placeholder behemoth, but there is purpose behind this ship.

    I have a character flying a Vesta that could 1:1 sit on a Jupiter bridge and I'd barely have to make any changes to make it work. Fits like a glove.

    Already thinking about what I can do with those Callisto light escorts.
    Will it be available at some point as a flyable shippie like the Aquarius? :smile:

    Also, can't wait to see a similar pipeline for the Romuland and KDF side. Many thanks for looking into it, Trendy :smile:
    *thumbs-up*
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  • leemwatson
    leemwatson Member Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    At last. Very decent stats and new Escort pets!! Woo HOO!!!

    The ship is inline with other carriers in game. Why should it have 4/4 weapons, +20 turn rate et all!? The very obvious line is that this is a Long Range vessel, designed with Sci capabilities for exploration, not a ship designed for annihilating everything in it's path. I'll gladly have my Delta Flyers along with the Escorts on this journey!

    To address another poster the DSD's ARE Sci vessels and Destroyer in one. It has Sensor Analysis and Sub-system Targetting, therefore it is a true Sci ship.

    Another poster mentioned no carriers on the KDF side!! Err, the Kar'Fi and the Vo'Quv would like to disagree with you. Whilst the Vo'Quv is a good carrier, I think the Kar'Fi is much better.

    It just leaves the Roms without one, but seeing as they're still a fractured race, when are they going to agree or find the time and resource to build one?? I do look forward to one, but let some common sense come into the argument please!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • reynoldsxd
    reynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    Calistos could perhaps get 2 omni beam arrays? ^^
  • acg3269
    acg3269 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    Seriously?!?
    Another Science based Carrier?!?
    And only 3/3 weapons?!?
    Also, Intel, instead of command? And I have to Sacrifice my dedicated Engineering Boff Seat for it?!? Really people?!?

    This ship is gonna be a joke. I was sooooo hyped for it. I was gonna buy it. I even voted on this design!!! (Yes, I was a Jupiter fanboy, not that so of the other designs weren't really nice. Hope they use them on a future ship I CAN ACTUALLY USE!!!)

    This is such a disappointment. The Federation already has a dedicated Science Carrier! (Granted its T-5 at this point, but it can be upgraded.)
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  • questerius
    questerius Member Posts: 7,781 Arc User
    Biggest drawback is that in order to gain access to those light pilot-escort fighters one has to purchase that monstrosity.
    Don't get me wrong, the boff layout is decent enough as is the console distribution, but i really do not like the design one bit.

    The design might work for a cruiser, although it still would not be a favourite of mine, but it is imho completely unsuited for a carrier.​​
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  • angrytarg
    angrytarg Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    This is no Battlecruiser, its a Carrier, and better dont tell me that we have enough Battle Carrier, cause Feds have NONE, and lobi / lockbox Ships dont count. And the Point that you mentioned with the Power levels is the smallest Issue that can be ignored, BUT the Boff and Weapons Layout and also the Console Layout are nothing but a Dissapointment.

    Also "use their Pets to deal damage"...yea cause pets are SOOOOO totaly reliable....."Hey look there is a Warpcore Breach, lets have a look! WEEEEEEE *BOOM*"

    The way you talk one could assume you'd just scrap the carrier part and simply make it a battlecruiser, though. The pet AI remark is of course perfectly viable, especially since the Callisto pets only have cannons and probably only fire two salvos and then circle the target firing turrets, but still the Jupiter here is perfectly fine for a carrier. Not for the meta maybe, but it seems Cryptic is slowly working on changing that.​​
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
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  • highlandrise
    highlandrise Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    acg3269 wrote: »
    Seriously?!?
    Another Science based Carrier?!?
    And only 3/3 weapons?!?
    Also, Intel, instead of command? And I have to Sacrifice my dedicated Engineering Boff Seat for it?!? Really people?!?

    This ship is gonna be a joke. I was sooooo hyped for it. I was gonna buy it. I even voted on this design!!! (Yes, I was a Jupiter fanboy, not that so of the other designs weren't really nice. Hope they use them on a future ship I CAN ACTUALLY USE!!!)

    This is such a disappointment. The Federation already has a dedicated Science Carrier! (Granted its T-5 at this point, but it can be upgraded.)

    exactly my words (minus some more details about whats all wrong with this ship) :|
  • sevenofnine13141
    sevenofnine13141 Member Posts: 4,265 Arc User
    7bf2648492e99ff00db53fd9b2f534bd1448298401.png
    The design looks great in my opinion. Side hanger bays, a forward hanger deck, this thing is an excellent ship. Totally adapting these for Starfleet Operations.
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  • sunfrancks
    sunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    Well this ship is a swing and a miss.

    I'll be sticking with my Breen Sarr Theln, which is superior in every way...
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  • sevenofnine13141
    sevenofnine13141 Member Posts: 4,265 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Though the Callisto is a nice step up from the Dominion War era Peregrine Fighter.
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  • captaind3
    captaind3 Member Posts: 2,445 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    szim wrote: »
    I like it, especially the new class of hangar pets, the Callisto light escorts. One question remains though. Why would this craft have warp engines if they are supposed to be launched from a carrier? :D

    Carrier-based fighters and escorts and sometimes Bombers launched from Carriers and often did long distance strikes during World War II, so it's reasonable for the Callisto to be equipped with Warp Engines for long range tactical strikes.

    There lies really the fundamental conundrum of Carriers in Star Trek.

    Aircraft Carriers can't go on land and move to an inland target. Planes and Carriers use different mediums for travel, and have different ranges and speed, and have different times they can "loiter" in a territory before they need to refuel and rearm.

    But Carriers in space? Carriers and their fighter craft are warp-capable. Ships can attack planetary targets just as well as fighter craft. Starships are most likely a lot faster than one of the ships they transport, they have a longer range, they can last longer in remote (and possibly hostile) territory, and they pack more firepower.

    Hence, Carriers don't make sense in Star Trek. Maybe not even in most Sci-Fi franchises that feature them.

    Fighters can make sense as a low-cost option to defend or patrol an area against lighter craft, basically creating a certain "barrier" for technological development and logistics of potential attackers.
    Shuttles make sense to transport people or materials to locations when the ship can't leave its current position, or is on a different course.


    But ... Who cares anymore? (I do?) THe only question for STO is whether they are fun to play. (Meh. But your mileage may vary.)

    The only true advantage that carrier craft would have in a space battle would be higher maneuverability. Star Wars showcased that the large powerful ship to ship weapons couldn't target the agile small craft. That said, Star Trek has always shown superior accuracy for small objects.

    That said there is a place for high mobility smaller craft.

    Odd enough carriers while not the first go to for ship to ship combat would be ideal for attacking planetary targets where using a ship's full weaponry would be overkill, thus fulfilling your ship to shore analogy.
    As for the comments regarding weapon slots, Carriers in the Second World War and the Cold War and current conflicts have limited armament. Just anti-Submarine weapons and Anti-Aircraft weapons. Essentially, the Carrier was not designed for Ship to Ship combat, it was actually intended for long range and short range tactical strikes with fighters and escorts.

    That is false.

    See the Battle of Midway.

    The fact is for the first half of the 20th century naval strategists were looking for the big decisive battle between dreadnoughts. A battle that never materialized. Instead dreadnoughts were made obsolete by battlecruisers. Carriers were a surprise in World War II and went on to become the premiere vessel. Torpedo bombers aren't just for submarines, they're also for surface ships. The wing can kill anything.

    The lack of carrier to ship combat in the modern age is solely based on the fact that there hasn't been a war on that scale with an opponent that fielded carriers against a comparable naval power since...at least the Korean War, and nothing major since World War II.
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  • xablis
    xablis Member Posts: 236 Arc User
    Yes. I get it. Romulan and KDF ships.

    I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.

    While I'm sure you feel that you making this comment should sooth all the KDF/Rom players out there, until this actually happens I'm sure plenty of us will continue to remind you (Cryptic) that there has been and continue to be absolutely zero T6 science ships and carriers for the non-federation factions. The real insult was the line about the lack of science ships for the federation in the blog, seriously, do your devs even pay attention to their own product?
  • imkain
    imkain Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Not to sound like a Debbie Downer, but I was under the impression this ship would be free, before going to the C-Store. Was that logic incorrect?
  • sov42
    sov42 Member Posts: 1,250 Arc User
    Meanwhile, back at the Cryptic Cave...
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    "Let's all laugh at how easily they are appeased by expensive shinies, instead of higher caliber content and better quality programming."
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  • mjrkraken
    mjrkraken Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    Big question, why is it able to use Dual Cannons? 0% logic for it, and please dear gods let there be KDF one! Or at least a real KDF sci ship.. rom side optional!
  • specter2222
    specter2222 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    I literally just posted saying I'm working on getting Romulan and KDF ships and you respond with a full explanation as to why you're frustrated: that there's a lack of KDF ships.

    You only took that from my post? that its just a lack of ships? It's not just frustraition about the lack of ships though and this is what i was trying to point out to you, it's the way things are handled, and constantly they are handled badly, did the writer of the blog even consider what KDF and Rom players would think when its stated that Federation players have a lack of Sci and Carrier ships? When Fed have a multitude of sci ships and only 1 less full carrier than the KDF ( Atrox vs Vo'QUv and Karfi). It's these kinds of things that cause the bad feelings between players and devs, and the reason people sometimes go to far with forum posts....It's the feeling that no matter what we do as a KDF or Rom player, no matter what we buy, how much we spend or how heavilly we support the game that we just don't matter as much as fed players, that we always get things last ( if we get them at all).

    I hope this makes it clearer for you as to why we get annoyed, its not just the simple 'We want more' that you seemed to imply from my post, its a lot more complicated than that.



    Also to sevenofnine13141 telling us to be patient? exactly how long do you want KDF players to be patient? we have been patient for 5 years hoping to get even 50% of the attention that Fed players get, so please dont try and make out we are impatient as its nothing more than a laughable statement.
  • angrytarg
    angrytarg Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    captaind3 wrote: »
    The only true advantage that carrier craft would have in a space battle would be higher maneuverability. Star Wars showcased that the large powerful ship to ship weapons couldn't target the agile small craft. That said, Star Trek has always shown superior accuracy for small objects.

    That said there is a place for high mobility smaller craft.

    Odd enough carriers while not the first go to for ship to ship combat would be ideal for attacking planetary targets where using a ship's full weaponry would be overkill, thus fulfilling your ship to shore analogy.
    (...)

    Star Wars uses ballistic weapons though. Star Trek weapons are (mostly) highly sophisticated, continious beam weapons with a 360 degree field of fire and no small craft could put out enough power to generate a shield able to take even a single hit. Small combat craft smaller than a B'Rel/Defiant make really no sense in Star Trek. Ships can focus their main weapons to target a single object as big as a 1930's autombile from orbit, they can even stun people with their ship weapons.

    STO has them for gameplay reasons, I get that. But fighters in Star Trek are nonsense.​​
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • markhawkman
    markhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    So now the Starship Design Team admits what players have been saying all along - the end result of this 'contest' was basically pre-planned to be the 'new' Jupiter, leaving us to wonder (or in some cases, believe with smug certainty) if, in fact, the voting was always rigged so that 'Omega', the most Jupiter-like of the eight designs, was always going to win.
    Actually, based on the wording.... It seems as if they waited to decide on the class name until the voting for the shape had been finalized.
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  • galatt
    galatt Member Posts: 707 Arc User
    Yes. I get it. Romulan and KDF ships.

    I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.
    moobucket wrote: »
    ... too bad the Klingons and Romulans don't feel this kind of love.

    8927bbd7bd8c993aed851e29fa08648a1448305020.jpg

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  • pwlaughingtrendy
    pwlaughingtrendy Member Posts: 2,966 Arc User
    xablis wrote: »
    Yes. I get it. Romulan and KDF ships.

    I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.

    While I'm sure you feel that you making this comment should sooth all the KDF/Rom players out there, until this actually happens I'm sure plenty of us will continue to remind you (Cryptic) that there has been and continue to be absolutely zero T6 science ships and carriers for the non-federation factions. The real insult was the line about the lack of science ships for the federation in the blog, seriously, do your devs even pay attention to their own product?
    OH MY SWEET Q I LITERALLY JUST SAID I'M WORKING ON IT.
  • qjunior
    qjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    xablis wrote: »
    Yes. I get it. Romulan and KDF ships.

    I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.

    While I'm sure you feel that you making this comment should sooth all the KDF/Rom players out there, until this actually happens I'm sure plenty of us will continue to remind you (Cryptic) that there has been and continue to be absolutely zero T6 science ships and carriers for the non-federation factions. The real insult was the line about the lack of science ships for the federation in the blog, seriously, do your devs even pay attention to their own product?
    OH MY SWEET Q I LITERALLY JUST SAID I'M WORKING ON IT.

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  • angrytarg
    angrytarg Member Posts: 10,809 Arc User
    OH MY SWEET Q I LITERALLY JUST SAID I'M WORKING ON IT.

    *offers trendysaur a cup of camomille tea* pig-23.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • khan5000
    khan5000 Member Posts: 3,005 Arc User
    I literally just posted saying I'm working on getting Romulan and KDF ships and you respond with a full explanation as to why you're frustrated: that there's a lack of KDF ships.

    You only took that from my post? that its just a lack of ships? It's not just frustraition about the lack of ships though and this is what i was trying to point out to you, it's the way things are handled, and constantly they are handled badly, did the writer of the blog even consider what KDF and Rom players would think when its stated that Federation players have a lack of Sci and Carrier ships? When Fed have a multitude of sci ships and only 1 less full carrier than the KDF ( Atrox vs Vo'QUv and Karfi). It's these kinds of things that cause the bad feelings between players and devs, and the reason people sometimes go to far with forum posts....It's the feeling that no matter what we do as a KDF or Rom player, no matter what we buy, how much we spend or how heavilly we support the game that we just don't matter as much as fed players, that we always get things last ( if we get them at all).

    I hope this makes it clearer for you as to why we get annoyed, its not just the simple 'We want more' that you seemed to imply from my post, its a lot more complicated than that.



    Also to sevenofnine13141 telling us to be patient? exactly how long do you want KDF players to be patient? we have been patient for 5 years hoping to get even 50% of the attention that Fed players get, so please dont try and make out we are impatient as its nothing more than a laughable statement.

    I understand the frustration BUT...this ship was made with the Federation in mind. When they sit down and consider what type of ship this will be they balance it against what the Feds already have. The blog was written with that in mind. It wasn't an intent to insult.
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  • pwlaughingtrendy
    pwlaughingtrendy Member Posts: 2,966 Arc User
    Do you want some smiting? This is how you get smiting.