If you want to push hybrid just give everything higher innate resist to energy weapons. Energy weapons are supposed to be for taking down shields... once that barrier is gone torps are free to wreck the hull. As it is now there is so much radiation and bleed-through damage that I kill things without ever going through their shields half the time.
You seem to be forgetting two things. Many people paid real money to get Kemo via spending zen credits and different country's have different laws. If you want to trade in those country's you have to follow those laws. That's why MMO's only allow users from allowed counties. Its also why you sometimes end up with different servers for different country's.
It isn't the first or last time they've fixed broken OP stuff from lockboxes and you're not the first person to bring up the same old tired argument about international laws. Stop crying and brace yourselves, the Kemo nerf is coming.
You misunderstand as am not crying about the fix so there is no reason to brace myself. All I was doing it pointing out to a few people that there is a world outside the US and for example in some places the TOS/EULA is meaningless.
I think I'm being ganged up on here because most players don't understand how the abilities work. If they go through with this change and everyone in game sees how crappy KLW becomes, I think you are going to see a lot more people than me complaining on the forums.
There are people posting who know full well how abilities work and have done some very in depth analysis of them, including the ones who figured out how badly klw is/was bugged. I think people are saying that if you didn't see a fix coming, bad on you.
You should read my posts before trying to debate with me. I already explained how this is a nerf, and not a "fix" no matter how many times people call it that. I also explained how the nerf will make KLW worse than APD. But you would have to know how APD works and how the nerf will change KLW to realize that.
But whatever. You've all already made up your minds. I guess I will wait until the nerf hits and then we will see how many people actually care about it.
It was stated that it will have a 4km radius, so that's an 8km AOE sphere. The question though is if the debuff will apply across all targets within that AOE (the damage will so why not?). If that's the case, I don't see it being as bad as you suggest.
I kinda wish they would have also gone further into reworking how torpedo-spread works making it benefit from additional slotted torpedo launchers of a similar type like in someways both bfaw an cannon spread work with additional slotted beam/cannons. Such as how torpedo spread works now yet it would also fire 1-3 (i could see this going up based on the firing rate of the torpedo launcher compared to other weapons) additional torpedos from any other (maybe of a similar type) torpedo launchers you have slotted, which would than fire these additional torps at any targets within their firing arcs. Though i would not mind seeing each type of torpedo, maybe even just the different rep torps, getting a different manner of functioning with torpedo High yield (maybe even torpedo spread too) kinda like how omega torp an the romulan rep torp.
Though i also kinda hate how cluster torps are not really affected by either torp-spread/torp high-yeild or by the mine-based attack patterns, and would love to see this changed maybe not giving them the same effect or boost when used with them but even if it were a reduced amount would be nice. I mean the cluster torp is a long range torpedo-based delivery system for mines as such it would make sense that it would atleast get some benefit from abilities that effect either of these factors of it, but i would say that the effect to them should not be equal to a pure torp or mine used with these abilties though as the benefit of both long range delivery an being affected by both is a large boost itself.
People griping about the cost of KLW need to put up or shut up. If you can't afford it too bad, so sad. Yes it is powerful, and even after the nerf it will be among the most powerful tactical BoFF abilities out there.
I don't see anyone crying that tier 6 lockbox ships are 150mil on the exchange, or that the Herald Dread is going for over 500mil, or that the cross-faction box to give Feds the Plasmonic Leech is going for 100mil.
All are *highly* desirable lockbox prizes, and as we all know with lockboxes they do occasionally contain crazy powerful things.
It's P2W folks, and we've ALL known that for years. Spend the cash straight up or grind dil to get ec, welcome to STO.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I think I'm being ganged up on here because most players don't understand how the abilities work. If they go through with this change and everyone in game sees how crappy KLW becomes, I think you are going to see a lot more people than me complaining on the forums.
There are people posting who know full well how abilities work and have done some very in depth analysis of them, including the ones who figured out how badly klw is/was bugged. I think people are saying that if you didn't see a fix coming, bad on you.
You should read my posts before trying to debate with me. I already explained how this is a nerf, and not a "fix" no matter how many times people call it that. I also explained how the nerf will make KLW worse than APD. But you would have to know how APD works and how the nerf will change KLW to realize that.
But whatever. You've all already made up your minds. I guess I will wait until the nerf hits and then we will see how many people actually care about it.
I already read your posts and you have only expressed an opinion, don't care if you want to call it a nerf or not. You haven't quantified how the change will change or not your dps if the mechanics are changed. When you can show that, then yeah, it's a nerf. But for now, this is a fix because it is eliminating unintended mechanics. Throw me your numbers to justify your position that you are going to have a hit in damage, rather than spewing assumed changes.
I think I'm being ganged up on here because most players don't understand how the abilities work. If they go through with this change and everyone in game sees how crappy KLW becomes, I think you are going to see a lot more people than me complaining on the forums.
There are people posting who know full well how abilities work and have done some very in depth analysis of them, including the ones who figured out how badly klw is/was bugged. I think people are saying that if you didn't see a fix coming, bad on you.
You should read my posts before trying to debate with me. I already explained how this is a nerf, and not a "fix" no matter how many times people call it that. I also explained how the nerf will make KLW worse than APD. But you would have to know how APD works and how the nerf will change KLW to realize that.
But whatever. You've all already made up your minds. I guess I will wait until the nerf hits and then we will see how many people actually care about it.
I already read your posts and you have only expressed an opinion, don't care if you want to call it a nerf or not. You haven't quantified how the change will change or not your dps if the mechanics are changed. When you can show that, then yeah, it's a nerf. But for now, this is a fix because it is eliminating unintended mechanics. Throw me your numbers to justify your position that you are going to have a hit in damage, rather than spewing assumed changes.
If the number of times KLW procs is reduced then DPS will, *obviously*, be reduced. It's a nerf, plain and simple.
I do find the whole thing highly suspicious... if it was really a big problem the ability would have been fixed a LONG time ago, not two lockboxes later. I have a feeling that this change is the complete result of people on the forums whining.
I think I'm being ganged up on here because most players don't understand how the abilities work. If they go through with this change and everyone in game sees how crappy KLW becomes, I think you are going to see a lot more people than me complaining on the forums.
There are people posting who know full well how abilities work and have done some very in depth analysis of them, including the ones who figured out how badly klw is/was bugged. I think people are saying that if you didn't see a fix coming, bad on you.
You should read my posts before trying to debate with me. I already explained how this is a nerf, and not a "fix" no matter how many times people call it that. I also explained how the nerf will make KLW worse than APD. But you would have to know how APD works and how the nerf will change KLW to realize that.
But whatever. You've all already made up your minds. I guess I will wait until the nerf hits and then we will see how many people actually care about it.
I already read your posts and you have only expressed an opinion, don't care if you want to call it a nerf or not. You haven't quantified how the change will change or not your dps if the mechanics are changed. When you can show that, then yeah, it's a nerf. But for now, this is a fix because it is eliminating unintended mechanics. Throw me your numbers to justify your position that you are going to have a hit in damage, rather than spewing assumed changes.
If the number of times KLW procs is reduced then DPS will, *obviously*, be reduced. It's a nerf, plain and simple.
I do find the whole thing highly suspicious... if it was really a big problem the ability would have been fixed a LONG time ago, not two lockboxes later. I have a feeling that this change is the complete result of people on the forums whining.
The bug was reported quite some time after KLW was released. By that time, dev-manpower was focused on getting S11 out. Borticus acknowledged the bug and that they will fix it but only after S11. News of its impending fix/adjustment/nerf has been out for quite some time now. I don't think it has anything to do with forum-whining.
If the number of times KLW procs is reduced then DPS will, *obviously*, be reduced. It's a nerf, plain and simple.
I do find the whole thing highly suspicious... if it was really a big problem the ability would have been fixed a LONG time ago, not two lockboxes later. I have a feeling that this change is the complete result of people on the forums whining.
And if the number of procs it currently has is non-intentional and therefore a bug, then its a fix and not a nerf, also pretty simple.
You´d actually have a point if the developers had specified how often KLW was supposed to proc beforehand, but they didn´t, so you dont.
Even as a KLW user myself i dont have any issue with what they are planing to do to it.
Simple fact is its their decision on how they think any power in this game is supposed to be, if they feel its not correct they will change it, even if people will cry nerf.
---
On a sidenote, someone said combatlog is actually having performance issues and there is a interview with borticus about it?
I´d appreciate a link to said interview so i can change my possibly faulty info (cant seem to find it myself)
The Tos is not valid or meaningful depending on where you live.
It isn't automatically and in every country law supercedes ToS, so you are technically correct when we are talking about general principles.
But I don't see how this part of the ToS in particular would be invalidated anywhere. You are purchasing a software and access to a hub (server) as a service that has changing content. This is common practice and you are informed beforehand. You then swap some item in game (ec) for another (lockbox trait) with another player. This would not even count as a transaction under any law. Especially since you cannot convert anything from inside STO back into dollars or euros or yens. If you were going the key route and used cash to get zen: already when you converted to zen you left the normal economy, but even if you did accept that: you got the keys, the keys did what they should do (open lockboxes), the opened lockboxes did what they should do (drop lobi). So no deal.
So in this instance I fail to see how any law overrides the ToS. If you consider it differently - I am not a lawyer, I don't even play one on TV - then you can try to see where you get. Maybe a judge in your country will rule in your favor.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
*Sits down with popcorn* it's funny everyone told the Science lovers to shut up and eal with it when science got nerfed. Now tac is getting a nerf on their best skill and OMG it's the end of the world!. LOL. LOVE...IT!!!!
*Sits down with popcorn* it's funny everyone told the Science lovers to shut up and eal with it when science got nerfed. Now tac is getting a nerf on their best skill and OMG it's the end of the world!. LOL. LOVE...IT!!!!
Here I had thought sto was just code for Tacticals Online but in a trek setting ;p
I think I'm being ganged up on here because most players don't understand how the abilities work. If they go through with this change and everyone in game sees how crappy KLW becomes, I think you are going to see a lot more people than me complaining on the forums.
There are people posting who know full well how abilities work and have done some very in depth analysis of them, including the ones who figured out how badly klw is/was bugged. I think people are saying that if you didn't see a fix coming, bad on you.
You should read my posts before trying to debate with me. I already explained how this is a nerf, and not a "fix" no matter how many times people call it that. I also explained how the nerf will make KLW worse than APD. But you would have to know how APD works and how the nerf will change KLW to realize that.
But whatever. You've all already made up your minds. I guess I will wait until the nerf hits and then we will see how many people actually care about it.
I already read your posts and you have only expressed an opinion, don't care if you want to call it a nerf or not. You haven't quantified how the change will change or not your dps if the mechanics are changed. When you can show that, then yeah, it's a nerf. But for now, this is a fix because it is eliminating unintended mechanics. Throw me your numbers to justify your position that you are going to have a hit in damage, rather than spewing assumed changes.
If the number of times KLW procs is reduced then DPS will, *obviously*, be reduced. It's a nerf, plain and simple.
I do find the whole thing highly suspicious... if it was really a big problem the ability would have been fixed a LONG time ago, not two lockboxes later. I have a feeling that this change is the complete result of people on the forums whining.
But it's not that simple. The procs will be reduced, but the effect of the magnitude is increased. It's a reduction in one dimension and an increase in another.
And of course - was it ever intended to work that way? Was it advertised to work exactl the way it worked?
I think not. So it's still a fix.
But anyway, it's arguing meaningless semantics here.
Ultimately, the power is broken as it works now and it will hopefully no longer be afterwards, and it doesn't matter how much money or game resources people spend to acquire the item, they don't have the right to expect it to stay "conveniently broken".
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I do find the whole thing highly suspicious... if it was really a big problem the ability would have been fixed a LONG time ago, not two lockboxes later. I have a feeling that this change is the complete result of people on the forums whining.
I don't know how long you've been playing the game, but if you've been playing for as long as I have. Then you'll remember the issues with the disruptor proc's and the fact that it took them around three years to fix those. The arguments against the changes to KLW aren't that different from those raised against the changes to the embassy plasma consoles and frankly as one of those that spoke out against the changes, I'll admit, that I've not noticed a great difference in those changes.
I think the people that will kick up a stink on the forums are those that have paid ridiculous amounts or have based they're entire builds around this one bugged power. Like others have said, it'll still have a use for those ships that would have a wasted ensign tac slot otherwise. I hope that the change will help drive the cost down to enable a greater cross section of the player base to afford it.
You should read my posts before trying to debate with me. I already explained how this is a nerf, and not a "fix" no matter how many times people call it that. I also explained how the nerf will make KLW worse than APD. But you would have to know how APD works and how the nerf will change KLW to realize that.
But whatever. You've all already made up your minds. I guess I will wait until the nerf hits and then we will see how many people actually care about it.
I've read your posts elsewhere and I along with several others have already explained why you're doing nothing but spewing hot air and complaining that you can't keep a broken ability.
You like several others in here seem to think that fixing things are as simple flipping switches and it's not. When you're dealing with code one simple little thing out of place can bring the entire thing crashing down. You spout TRIBBLE about how "it's illegal for them to do this" and so on in addition how it's being nerfed and what not when you agreed that you knew it could happen. to be blunt you're full of hot air and need to come up with better points and logic before you speak again.
The thing I'm gonna find funny is that we are gonna see people who were pulling 30-50k dps drop to 10k again
If kemocite is making that huge of a difference for a person then they have more problems than just kemocite. I can see individual abilities making a difference of a few thousand but not much beyond that.
I don't know how long you've been playing the game, but if you've been playing for as long as I have. Then you'll remember the issues with the disruptor proc's and the fact that it took them around three years to fix those. The arguments against the changes to KLW aren't that different from those raised against the changes to the embassy plasma consoles and frankly as one of those that spoke out against the changes, I'll admit, that I've not noticed a great difference in those changes.
I think the people that will kick up a stink on the forums are those that have paid ridiculous amounts or have based they're entire builds around this one bugged power. Like others have said, it'll still have a use for those ships that would have a wasted ensign tac slot otherwise. I hope that the change will help drive the cost down to enable a greater cross section of the player base to afford it.
That's pretty much the whole thing I wish people would get about kemocite, even if they nerf/fix it as that other guy is complaining about it may not be hitting for as much no, but it's still a useful ability. The exploding plasma consoles are still useful as well and can be a good sized boost in damage.
To be fair though, when it was discovered the original embassy consoles were boosted by +beam consoles it shouldn't have come as a surprise to people that they were going to get changed. That had to go as it was too broken.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
To be fair though, when it was discovered the original embassy consoles were boosted by +beam consoles it shouldn't have come as a surprise to people that they were going to get changed. That had to go as it was too broken.
Spot on, and I'll raise my hand and say that while it lasted I made good use of it. But I didn't come to rely on it, because like you say it came as no surprise that it was going to get fixed.
If kemocite is making that huge of a difference for a person then they have more problems than just kemocite. I can see individual abilities making a difference of a few thousand but not much beyond that.
The thing I'm gonna find funny is that we are gonna see people who were pulling 30-50k dps drop to 10k again
Exactly people are using it as a crutch plain and simple. And to be honest if anyone has been in the game long enough, then they should know that Cryptic does tend to follow the pattern of release it then fix it. Am I happy about that? well no in all honesty it annoys the hell out of me. Which is one of the reasons I signed up for the Operational support team, so problems like this can be identified and corrected hopefully before they reach holodeck, or at least before players become dependent upon them which appears to be the case for some of the players that are using KLW.
But I've got to agree with @semalda226's they've hit the nail firmly on the head. When this change goes through and as far as I'm concerned it can't go through soon enough. The players that are currently punching above their weights are suddenly going to find themselves out gunned and out classed by the players that aren't reliant on this broken power. And I'm in no doubt that zone chat, as well as the forums will be burning. Because there are players in the game that have based their entire builds around using this one power, and like @semalda226 has said their DPS numbers will plummet. And that's all the cryings about when you cut through it all.
So others have to suffer huge lag, freezes and crashes just so you can rack up the big numbers? There's lots of overpowered stuff to choose from here, and maybe they get around to correcting it and maybe not. But when your OPed ability not only lets you AFK others in an STF, but basicly throw them out of the one they are currently in, you have zero consideration for them. If and when the kemo-spread gets corrected, too bad.
I've never had lag while using KLW. I've also been in groups where multiple people have been using it (CCA for example) and not had any lag. But I have a nice PC with a nice graphics card.
I suspect the lag is caused by your graphics card not being able to handle all the extra particle effects. That's your problem, not mine. If you want to game get a better gaming PC. Consideration has nothing to do with game lag. Do you blame others for being inconsiderate when they drive a nice car down your street?
This ability was sold to us. It was one of the big lockbox prizes and it helped bring them more sales. Nerfing it now that Xindi lockbox sales are dropping off and all the big spenders have it is bait and switch.
to some degree your response is cold hearted and shows little concern for the less fortunate of us. the point of a game is to let the majority of people enjoy the experience with few issues. now lets consider, how many of us can afford high-end gaming computers that can beautifully show the game and all aspects with no issue, and how many can't? mind u I'm on a high end gaming computer so don't think I'm speaking from the less fortunate perspective.
point is most people can't. the majority of players are playing on a mid-level all purpose rig. possibly onboard graphics not even a real card. desktop or laptop doesn't matter. who is cryptic going to satisfy? the majority.
also it is annoying to have one super-rich or super-lucky kemo user in an stf when I'm trying to get a good parse for myself or a friend. we don't get a chance to shoot anything really because of him.
now lets consider, how many of us can afford high-end gaming computers that can beautifully show the game and all aspects with no issue, and how many can't? mind u I'm on a high end gaming computer so don't think I'm speaking from the less fortunate perspective.
point is most people can't. the majority of players are playing on a mid-level all purpose rig. possibly onboard graphics not even a real card. desktop or laptop doesn't matter. who is cryptic going to satisfy? the majority.
It's really a moot point. The "Kemo Lag" isn't caused (usually) by a user's video card not being the 'latest and greatest.'
It's due to the immense number of calculations being done all at once because of the ridiculous (read: broken) number of AoE procs going off at once. When that is fixed, the "lag" (which isn't really lag) will be fixed for most, if not all, players.
This game is not very GPU dependent. It is a LOT more CPU dependent, and that is where all of these calculations are taking place: on the CPU. I'm not an expert of the back-end of STO by any means, so I can only assume that the crazy amount of simultaneous calculations going on due to "Kemo Cheese" is bottlenecking either the instance server's CPU, or the player's CPU. It's definitely one or the other, that much I am sure of. It's akin to trying to run SuperPI or LinPack for a few seconds in the background every time Kemo starts proccing, heh.
Further on the point that it has nothing to do with "lag": I have a 250mbps fiber-optic connection with a fairly decent ping time, and I still suffer big frame-rate drops when someone is really cheesing Kemo. I tend to think the instance server is choking, because my Intel i5 4690k @ 4.4ghz, Radeon 7870GHz Ed. @ 1150mhz/1400mhz, and 16GB of CAS10/1T DDR3 @ 2133mhz handles this game (and 90%+ of other modern games) at 60+ FPS, with fully max graphics and AA, in nearly every other instance.
Either way, an ability that is so broken that it is the sole reason of intense hardware bottlenecking (no matter where), needs fixing. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about that.
It's most definitely on Cryptic's end I run a high end gaming PC and when my AOEs and a bunch of Kemo start overlapping my framerate plummets almost to a near freeze for the instant they go off.
To break it down very simply:
1 torp spread 3 could proc over 200 procs of kemocyte on grav welled targets.
1 torp spread 2 with the Quantum Phase Torp did over 12million damage to a group a gravwelled spheres.
Those are problems. They are getting fixed. Deal with it.
Again it's not a bug fix it's a nerf. I would have been fine with a fix that made it so each torp procs only once on each target when used with torp spread. Instead they are making it so each torp procs once on only your main (selected) target. This means KLW won't work with torp spread anymore.
I suppose it's only a matter of time before they get around to doing the same thing with KLW and BFAW now. With these changes KLW will become garbage. You might as well slot attack pattern delta instead, because that TRIBBLE ability would still be more useful than KLW post-nerf.
I hope they change their minds and just fix the multi-proc bug. When used with torp spread it should proc once per torpedo on each target that they hit, not just your main target.
Fixing KLW multi-proc bug = good
Nerfing KLW with torp spread or BFAW = bad
ok. ive weighed in once heres part 2. KLW costs more than some ships do. who gets it? the extremely rich or the extremely lifeless...I have this thing called a job, and a life, so no time to super grind and watch the exchange. I also don't have enough disposable currency to dump into thousands of keys so.......
cry all you want. a tool for the rich is getting cheapened. if only this would happen in real life. perhaps gas prices would finally get below a buck a gallon again.
im starting this thread for shear clarity of what this nerf will actually do to the player like myself who is using neutronic torp spread three and kemo and what the nerf will do to that. ive already tried and run stfs with out kemo and see a huge drop in dps so what that tells me is the nerf is going to make builds like mine completly useless and im going to have to get all new gear to run all beams to get anywhere when it comes to dps. ive made the grind more fun by using ts3 and kemo with nuetronic torp and now cryptic is going to make all my work getting kemo and upgrading my torp and consoles complety wasted and it might just push me away from a game ive been playing for 3 to 4 years now and i think there are people out there who think the same thing. if its a true fix of teh double proc im fine with that but other than that i see kemo as working as intended when it was realesed and this has happened before with plasma weps and teh plasma sci consoles being nerfed when those things made the game fun for alot of people and people put hard earned resources into getting that gear to the highest level only to have it rendered useless. all i have to ask is why cryptic why?
Look at it this way. Kemocite nerfed everyone who didn't have it . Your build may be useless soon, but so many other builds suddenly will be again!
I've done some game design work, and I have to be honest. When a mechanic is broken to the advantage of a select few, and punishes the rest when they have to be around it, then the designer has to make a change in the mechanics. It's that simple.
I had an experience point system that was broken once, and I had a test player figure out where it was broken, exploit that break, become overpowering in what we had for both PVE and PVP situations, and those who didn't pursue the exploit suffered till the game mechanic got fixed. Those players correctly identified the mechanic as being broken, and chose not to exploit it for their builds. The single player who exploited it adamantly refused GM attempts to retrofit his build since he had 'earned' those XP, and eventually his build was simply removed from the game entirely, because it could not remain as it was. The players who patiently refrained from making the exploit continued on successfully.
You just have to find a way to continue on successfully yourself. I'm sure you can do it.
With that in mind, I have been cautious about my latest build, using the new Quantum Phase set - the fact that it is producing some VERY nice results and was free (upgrades notwithstanding) will probably result in the set receiving nerf-bat attention; but I have the previous build I used to fall back on should this become the case.
[b*[/]BFAW being the exception; the devs don't care that BFAW is OP.
The Quantum Phase Torpedo is suffering from one of the bugs involved with klw. This will be fixed along with klw.
I'm fully agree with the fact kemo is broken since its releasing, being the non plus ultra tac skill and throwing an ocean of difference between noobs/poors and space rich ppl. I'm not a kemo user, i got only a kemo ii packed and i still don't know if selling it for EC or keep it.
But let's face it: kemo was intended to proc on -every- explosion, and it should be. With FAW and Spread too.
If it's meant to be an OP skill, with all gambling and speculations, this is STO, face it. Like f***** annorax and promo ships.
We talk about fix, rather than nerf, because a fix is necessary in every way, nerf can be a conseguence of this fix, or for balancing ggame mechanics.
The double proc is an huge error and it MUST be fixed.
The proc trigger without activation is an error and it MUST be fixed.
As for the fix/nerf cryptic planned, is just a way to work around the issues it causes, rather than correcting a "release error" because it was intended to work differently. Kemo had to work in this way, and has to.
As for graphic lag, i think STO is pretty light, when you run FLW (sorry) KLW you have only doubled the number of fireworks that neutronic + spread does alone, so i think is more a CPU than a GPU issue.
I'm quite a programmer, i suspect the real problem is only one: damage resistance reduction.
Dozens of spheres which modify resistance rating of every ship caught, taking every ship res rating, adding/subtracting kemo debuff several times, then calculate both damage of weapons and kemo proc.
While damage is just a +/- operation, resistance rating is 2-3 times more complex, involving other math operators , but repeat it hundreds of time... over net or no, you need good resources.
But also, res debuff is the real broken thing, i suspect a ship can reach 0 (and less than 0?) res rating in the way i described.
I think that removing resistance debuff and keep explosions on every shot/impact would solve the problem, by removing a broken mechanic and lag issues; dps WILL lower ofc, but our KLW will stay anyway on top of tac skills.
I'm fully agree with the fact kemo is broken since its releasing, being the non plus ultra tac skill and throwing an ocean of difference between noobs/poors and space rich ppl. I'm not a kemo user, i got only a kemo ii packed and i still don't know if selling it for EC or keep it.
But let's face it: kemo was intended to proc on -every- explosion, and it should be. With FAW and Spread too.
If it's meant to be an OP skill, with all gambling and speculations, this is STO, face it. Like f***** annorax and promo ships.
We talk about fix, rather than nerf, because a fix is necessary in every way, nerf can be a conseguence of this fix, or for balancing ggame mechanics.
The double proc is an huge error and it MUST be fixed.
The proc trigger without activation is an error and it MUST be fixed.
As for the fix/nerf cryptic planned, is just a way to work around the issues it causes, rather than correcting a "release error" because it was intended to work differently. Kemo had to work in this way, and has to.
As for graphic lag, i think STO is pretty light, when you run FLW you have only doubled the number of fireworks that neutronic + spread does alone, so i think is more a CPU than a GPU issue.
I'm quite a programmer, i suspect the real problem is only one: damage resistance reduction.
Dozens of spheres which modify resistance rating of every ship caught, taking every ship res rating, adding/subtracting kemo debuff several times, then calculate both damage of weapons and kemo proc.
While damage is just a +/- operation, resistance rating is 2-3 times more complex, involving other math operators , but repeat it hundreds of time... over net or no, you need good resources.
But also, res debuff is the real broken thing, i suspect a ship can reach 0 (and less than 0?) res rating in the way i described.
I think that removing resistance debuff and keep explosions on every shot/impact would solve the problem, by removing a broken mechanic and lag issues; dps WILL lower ofc, but our KLW will stay anyway on top of tac skills.
If you remove the ability on kemocite to proc on any torpedo from a torp spread and confine the explosion to the first torp, you still get an explosion, just not all the extras. You seriously underestimate the value of kemocite even after the fix/nerf that's coming down the line.
I also must call shenanigans on trying to blame it on the cpu/gpu. I myself can run this game on max settings if I choose to do so. I also have no problems with any other game or anything of the such. I also have no issues except for when kemocite is used, be it my own kemocite or that of another player. Now if it was just certain builds such as mine being one example, then you might could say that it was a player side thing. However when several people with vastly different builds all lag from this one ability, that's not everyone having a selectively bad cpu/gpu, that's the kemocite ability. If everyone being effected had similar builds, such as say hypothetically everyone had Intel quad core cpus, then you could say that it's probably just those people using Intel quad cores. It wouldn't be the first time that an ability has caused massive lag or was borked.
STO itself is pretty light, but there are some abilities and animations that cause a much heavier server load then normal. I myself have a bit of programming experience and have created several maps and missions for older games through mods and my own custom content that I've created for those games. I agree that calculations are part of the problem, but they're not the only issue at play here. If the likely scenario of the extra explosions being part of the problem proves true, then they need to go. whether you call this a fix or a nerf with kemocite, it NEEDS to happen.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
im starting this thread for shear clarity of what this nerf will actually do to the player like myself who is using neutronic torp spread three and kemo and what the nerf will do to that. ive already tried and run stfs with out kemo and see a huge drop in dps so what that tells me is the nerf is going to make builds like mine completly useless and im going to have to get all new gear to run all beams to get anywhere when it comes to dps. ive made the grind more fun by using ts3 and kemo with nuetronic torp and now cryptic is going to make all my work getting kemo and upgrading my torp and consoles complety wasted and it might just push me away from a game ive been playing for 3 to 4 years now and i think there are people out there who think the same thing. if its a true fix of teh double proc im fine with that but other than that i see kemo as working as intended when it was realesed and this has happened before with plasma weps and teh plasma sci consoles being nerfed when those things made the game fun for alot of people and people put hard earned resources into getting that gear to the highest level only to have it rendered useless. all i have to ask is why cryptic why?
Perhaps you should not place so much emphasis on something that is openly known to be a broken-beyond-all-belief mechanic. Just a thought.
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It was stated that it will have a 4km radius, so that's an 8km AOE sphere. The question though is if the debuff will apply across all targets within that AOE (the damage will so why not?). If that's the case, I don't see it being as bad as you suggest.
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Though i also kinda hate how cluster torps are not really affected by either torp-spread/torp high-yeild or by the mine-based attack patterns, and would love to see this changed maybe not giving them the same effect or boost when used with them but even if it were a reduced amount would be nice. I mean the cluster torp is a long range torpedo-based delivery system for mines as such it would make sense that it would atleast get some benefit from abilities that effect either of these factors of it, but i would say that the effect to them should not be equal to a pure torp or mine used with these abilties though as the benefit of both long range delivery an being affected by both is a large boost itself.
I don't see anyone crying that tier 6 lockbox ships are 150mil on the exchange, or that the Herald Dread is going for over 500mil, or that the cross-faction box to give Feds the Plasmonic Leech is going for 100mil.
All are *highly* desirable lockbox prizes, and as we all know with lockboxes they do occasionally contain crazy powerful things.
It's P2W folks, and we've ALL known that for years. Spend the cash straight up or grind dil to get ec, welcome to STO.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I already read your posts and you have only expressed an opinion, don't care if you want to call it a nerf or not. You haven't quantified how the change will change or not your dps if the mechanics are changed. When you can show that, then yeah, it's a nerf. But for now, this is a fix because it is eliminating unintended mechanics. Throw me your numbers to justify your position that you are going to have a hit in damage, rather than spewing assumed changes.
If the number of times KLW procs is reduced then DPS will, *obviously*, be reduced. It's a nerf, plain and simple.
I do find the whole thing highly suspicious... if it was really a big problem the ability would have been fixed a LONG time ago, not two lockboxes later. I have a feeling that this change is the complete result of people on the forums whining.
The bug was reported quite some time after KLW was released. By that time, dev-manpower was focused on getting S11 out. Borticus acknowledged the bug and that they will fix it but only after S11. News of its impending fix/adjustment/nerf has been out for quite some time now. I don't think it has anything to do with forum-whining.
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You´d actually have a point if the developers had specified how often KLW was supposed to proc beforehand, but they didn´t, so you dont.
Even as a KLW user myself i dont have any issue with what they are planing to do to it.
Simple fact is its their decision on how they think any power in this game is supposed to be, if they feel its not correct they will change it, even if people will cry nerf.
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On a sidenote, someone said combatlog is actually having performance issues and there is a interview with borticus about it?
I´d appreciate a link to said interview so i can change my possibly faulty info
It isn't automatically and in every country law supercedes ToS, so you are technically correct when we are talking about general principles.
But I don't see how this part of the ToS in particular would be invalidated anywhere. You are purchasing a software and access to a hub (server) as a service that has changing content. This is common practice and you are informed beforehand. You then swap some item in game (ec) for another (lockbox trait) with another player. This would not even count as a transaction under any law. Especially since you cannot convert anything from inside STO back into dollars or euros or yens. If you were going the key route and used cash to get zen: already when you converted to zen you left the normal economy, but even if you did accept that: you got the keys, the keys did what they should do (open lockboxes), the opened lockboxes did what they should do (drop lobi). So no deal.
So in this instance I fail to see how any law overrides the ToS. If you consider it differently - I am not a lawyer, I don't even play one on TV - then you can try to see where you get. Maybe a judge in your country will rule in your favor.
Here I had thought sto was just code for Tacticals Online but in a trek setting ;p
And of course - was it ever intended to work that way? Was it advertised to work exactl the way it worked?
I think not. So it's still a fix.
But anyway, it's arguing meaningless semantics here.
Ultimately, the power is broken as it works now and it will hopefully no longer be afterwards, and it doesn't matter how much money or game resources people spend to acquire the item, they don't have the right to expect it to stay "conveniently broken".
I don't know how long you've been playing the game, but if you've been playing for as long as I have. Then you'll remember the issues with the disruptor proc's and the fact that it took them around three years to fix those. The arguments against the changes to KLW aren't that different from those raised against the changes to the embassy plasma consoles and frankly as one of those that spoke out against the changes, I'll admit, that I've not noticed a great difference in those changes.
I think the people that will kick up a stink on the forums are those that have paid ridiculous amounts or have based they're entire builds around this one bugged power. Like others have said, it'll still have a use for those ships that would have a wasted ensign tac slot otherwise. I hope that the change will help drive the cost down to enable a greater cross section of the player base to afford it.
I've read your posts elsewhere and I along with several others have already explained why you're doing nothing but spewing hot air and complaining that you can't keep a broken ability.
You like several others in here seem to think that fixing things are as simple flipping switches and it's not. When you're dealing with code one simple little thing out of place can bring the entire thing crashing down. You spout TRIBBLE about how "it's illegal for them to do this" and so on in addition how it's being nerfed and what not when you agreed that you knew it could happen. to be blunt you're full of hot air and need to come up with better points and logic before you speak again.
If kemocite is making that huge of a difference for a person then they have more problems than just kemocite. I can see individual abilities making a difference of a few thousand but not much beyond that.
That's pretty much the whole thing I wish people would get about kemocite, even if they nerf/fix it as that other guy is complaining about it may not be hitting for as much no, but it's still a useful ability. The exploding plasma consoles are still useful as well and can be a good sized boost in damage.
To be fair though, when it was discovered the original embassy consoles were boosted by +beam consoles it shouldn't have come as a surprise to people that they were going to get changed. That had to go as it was too broken.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Spot on, and I'll raise my hand and say that while it lasted I made good use of it. But I didn't come to rely on it, because like you say it came as no surprise that it was going to get fixed.
Exactly people are using it as a crutch plain and simple. And to be honest if anyone has been in the game long enough, then they should know that Cryptic does tend to follow the pattern of release it then fix it. Am I happy about that? well no in all honesty it annoys the hell out of me. Which is one of the reasons I signed up for the Operational support team, so problems like this can be identified and corrected hopefully before they reach holodeck, or at least before players become dependent upon them which appears to be the case for some of the players that are using KLW.
But I've got to agree with @semalda226's they've hit the nail firmly on the head. When this change goes through and as far as I'm concerned it can't go through soon enough. The players that are currently punching above their weights are suddenly going to find themselves out gunned and out classed by the players that aren't reliant on this broken power. And I'm in no doubt that zone chat, as well as the forums will be burning. Because there are players in the game that have based their entire builds around using this one power, and like @semalda226 has said their DPS numbers will plummet. And that's all the cryings about when you cut through it all.
Some will lose a huge chunk of dps. If it cuts down on the lag, many others should increase.
to some degree your response is cold hearted and shows little concern for the less fortunate of us. the point of a game is to let the majority of people enjoy the experience with few issues. now lets consider, how many of us can afford high-end gaming computers that can beautifully show the game and all aspects with no issue, and how many can't? mind u I'm on a high end gaming computer so don't think I'm speaking from the less fortunate perspective.
point is most people can't. the majority of players are playing on a mid-level all purpose rig. possibly onboard graphics not even a real card. desktop or laptop doesn't matter. who is cryptic going to satisfy? the majority.
also it is annoying to have one super-rich or super-lucky kemo user in an stf when I'm trying to get a good parse for myself or a friend. we don't get a chance to shoot anything really because of him.
ill join the good riddance crowd.
It's really a moot point. The "Kemo Lag" isn't caused (usually) by a user's video card not being the 'latest and greatest.'
It's due to the immense number of calculations being done all at once because of the ridiculous (read: broken) number of AoE procs going off at once. When that is fixed, the "lag" (which isn't really lag) will be fixed for most, if not all, players.
This game is not very GPU dependent. It is a LOT more CPU dependent, and that is where all of these calculations are taking place: on the CPU. I'm not an expert of the back-end of STO by any means, so I can only assume that the crazy amount of simultaneous calculations going on due to "Kemo Cheese" is bottlenecking either the instance server's CPU, or the player's CPU. It's definitely one or the other, that much I am sure of. It's akin to trying to run SuperPI or LinPack for a few seconds in the background every time Kemo starts proccing, heh.
Further on the point that it has nothing to do with "lag": I have a 250mbps fiber-optic connection with a fairly decent ping time, and I still suffer big frame-rate drops when someone is really cheesing Kemo. I tend to think the instance server is choking, because my Intel i5 4690k @ 4.4ghz, Radeon 7870GHz Ed. @ 1150mhz/1400mhz, and 16GB of CAS10/1T DDR3 @ 2133mhz handles this game (and 90%+ of other modern games) at 60+ FPS, with fully max graphics and AA, in nearly every other instance.
Either way, an ability that is so broken that it is the sole reason of intense hardware bottlenecking (no matter where), needs fixing. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about that.
ok. ive weighed in once heres part 2. KLW costs more than some ships do. who gets it? the extremely rich or the extremely lifeless...I have this thing called a job, and a life, so no time to super grind and watch the exchange. I also don't have enough disposable currency to dump into thousands of keys so.......
cry all you want. a tool for the rich is getting cheapened. if only this would happen in real life. perhaps gas prices would finally get below a buck a gallon again.
Look at it this way. Kemocite nerfed everyone who didn't have it . Your build may be useless soon, but so many other builds suddenly will be again!
I've done some game design work, and I have to be honest. When a mechanic is broken to the advantage of a select few, and punishes the rest when they have to be around it, then the designer has to make a change in the mechanics. It's that simple.
I had an experience point system that was broken once, and I had a test player figure out where it was broken, exploit that break, become overpowering in what we had for both PVE and PVP situations, and those who didn't pursue the exploit suffered till the game mechanic got fixed. Those players correctly identified the mechanic as being broken, and chose not to exploit it for their builds. The single player who exploited it adamantly refused GM attempts to retrofit his build since he had 'earned' those XP, and eventually his build was simply removed from the game entirely, because it could not remain as it was. The players who patiently refrained from making the exploit continued on successfully.
You just have to find a way to continue on successfully yourself. I'm sure you can do it.
Qapla!
The Quantum Phase Torpedo is suffering from one of the bugs involved with klw. This will be fixed along with klw.
But let's face it: kemo was intended to proc on -every- explosion, and it should be. With FAW and Spread too.
If it's meant to be an OP skill, with all gambling and speculations, this is STO, face it. Like f***** annorax and promo ships.
We talk about fix, rather than nerf, because a fix is necessary in every way, nerf can be a conseguence of this fix, or for balancing ggame mechanics.
The double proc is an huge error and it MUST be fixed.
The proc trigger without activation is an error and it MUST be fixed.
As for the fix/nerf cryptic planned, is just a way to work around the issues it causes, rather than correcting a "release error" because it was intended to work differently. Kemo had to work in this way, and has to.
As for graphic lag, i think STO is pretty light, when you run FLW (sorry) KLW you have only doubled the number of fireworks that neutronic + spread does alone, so i think is more a CPU than a GPU issue.
I'm quite a programmer, i suspect the real problem is only one: damage resistance reduction.
Dozens of spheres which modify resistance rating of every ship caught, taking every ship res rating, adding/subtracting kemo debuff several times, then calculate both damage of weapons and kemo proc.
While damage is just a +/- operation, resistance rating is 2-3 times more complex, involving other math operators , but repeat it hundreds of time... over net or no, you need good resources.
But also, res debuff is the real broken thing, i suspect a ship can reach 0 (and less than 0?) res rating in the way i described.
I think that removing resistance debuff and keep explosions on every shot/impact would solve the problem, by removing a broken mechanic and lag issues; dps WILL lower ofc, but our KLW will stay anyway on top of tac skills.
If you remove the ability on kemocite to proc on any torpedo from a torp spread and confine the explosion to the first torp, you still get an explosion, just not all the extras. You seriously underestimate the value of kemocite even after the fix/nerf that's coming down the line.
I also must call shenanigans on trying to blame it on the cpu/gpu. I myself can run this game on max settings if I choose to do so. I also have no problems with any other game or anything of the such. I also have no issues except for when kemocite is used, be it my own kemocite or that of another player. Now if it was just certain builds such as mine being one example, then you might could say that it was a player side thing. However when several people with vastly different builds all lag from this one ability, that's not everyone having a selectively bad cpu/gpu, that's the kemocite ability. If everyone being effected had similar builds, such as say hypothetically everyone had Intel quad core cpus, then you could say that it's probably just those people using Intel quad cores. It wouldn't be the first time that an ability has caused massive lag or was borked.
STO itself is pretty light, but there are some abilities and animations that cause a much heavier server load then normal. I myself have a bit of programming experience and have created several maps and missions for older games through mods and my own custom content that I've created for those games. I agree that calculations are part of the problem, but they're not the only issue at play here. If the likely scenario of the extra explosions being part of the problem proves true, then they need to go. whether you call this a fix or a nerf with kemocite, it NEEDS to happen.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Perhaps you should not place so much emphasis on something that is openly known to be a broken-beyond-all-belief mechanic. Just a thought.