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Agony Rifle = weaponized torture as a event reward?? turn in option please.

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  • svindal777svindal777 Member Posts: 856 Arc User
    Soon as I get mine my on 1 o my fed toons I'm heading straight to the 1st mission I can find that allows me to shot Klingons.
    Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on.
  • nathraelnathrael Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Most of my characters will probably not use it. The one exception being Koth, my TOS themed Klingon "I am Koth of the Vengeance, and this ship is my prize!" Agonizer was actually shown being used by Klingons in the episode of TOS that introduced Kang. One was used on Chekov. Koth frankly will look at it and go "Ranged version? Hell, this sounds interesting." But he's the only one really.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    Don't take this the wrong way but, of all the more disturbing things that happen in this game, THIS is the one that bothers you. In the lore the mirror universe always had what's known as agony chambers, portable agonizers and so on. for the mirror universe in game this is nothing new at all and is actually conceivably something that the Terran Empire would have invented at some point. I honestly find it more disturbing that when assimilated by the Borg they use no anesthetics as demonstrated by Voyager and you lose your individuality, than I find this rifle. If it bothers you that much you don't have to use the rifle.

    although what you say about the riffle is true, I cant see anyone from the star trek prime universe using such a weapon, sure they might use the beam but never the agony field as such this weapon is only good as half a standard weapon in the hands of a star fleet officer.
    its also true that what the borg do to assimilate an individual is even worse but don't forget borg are the quintessential bad guys and bad guys don't play by star fleet rules, star fleet are the good guys and would never forcibly impose their will on another race.
    that's why its normal for mirror universe terrans to use agonizer weapons they are after all the bad guys.

    I would discard this item rather then equip any of my characters or their boffs with it.

    when copying technology from alien races I believe that any weapon that inflicts unnecessary suffering like this would never be allowed, after all star fleet never starts a conflict they only use weapons for defence, if there is a diplomatic solution they would always use that first and foremost.

    I don't even believe that Klingons or romulans would use such a weapon they would think anyone who did use it without honour.
    even cardasians would shun it.

    I would also remind you that there are various settings you can place a weapon on in the star trek lore. Several times in the show we see the crews adjusting the power level of the phasers they're using, anywhere from stun, heavy stun, to kill. The same could be said from a lore standpoint with the agonizer rifles.

    The point of the mirror universe is it's like looking into a mirror. So for someone such as Leeta who is pretty harmless normally and sort of a happy go lucky type of character, mirror Leeta is well, you see. I see no reason why the prime universe starfleet couldn't just adapt a version that holds but kills without all the pain, speaking from a lore standpoint. there's also certain weapons that starfleet keeps on hand in case of various situations happening. one example is the tr-116 rifles. they're designed to work in situations where normal energy weapons can't.

    The Klingons yes may consider certain things dishonorable and so on but would not be above using a weapon such as the agonizer rifles. The klingons would simply make it work for them. The romulans could honestly fall on either side of the spectrum but I suspect they would use them if the situation demanded it. This weapon would be used more widely than you think imo. Not all species share the federation's disdain for such weaponry.

    though its true that there is no reason why the prime universe starfleet couldn't just adapt a version that holds or even kills without all the pain you can see from the stats that this is not the case.
    once the agony field is active it inflicts heavy physical damage unlike a simple force field that holds without causing any damage.
    I could believe they might use a standard force field to temporarily incapacitate a foe but I will never believe they would use this.
    although some Klingons might not be against causing pain as such they would want an enemy to be free to inflict pain also as there is no glory in a battle that is being fought against a foe who cannot defend themselves, i believe the same is true of romulans.
    naturally there will be certain individuals on any side who doesn't always live by this ethos but for the most part it would be abhorrent.

    I'm kinda on the fence with cardasians, although they might be not averse to giving pain as a means of torture they would want the subject that is receiving pain to survive with the knowledge that they were broken.
    as a means of killing I think even they would not stoop so low as to use this.
    Post edited by bobbydazlers on

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  • arabaturarabatur Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    I can't seem to find the post/blog which states you have to use this weapon.
    Definitely not an Arc User.
  • a3001a3001 Member Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    I think the OP's taking the game and lore too seriously...
    Rejoice JJ Trek people....

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  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    The op is forgetting that the agony beam is not supposed to kill (well, unless the setting is on max) so compared to killing them outright as we often do (with great relish), surely its better to disable them from combat (OP, just headcanon the beam takes them out of the battle as incapacitated and a new opponent takes their place)

    Think of it like a taser rifle on steroids​​
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    If you want a weapon which HOLDS, Stasis relativity pistol is your goto weapon. this agonizer rifle is sick and none of my characters, KDF, Romulan, or Fed will be using it.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    As far as I'm concerned it's just another space magic gun. Who cares what it's description says? I never read them anyway.
  • highlord83highlord83 Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    I actually RP'd out my main captain getting her agony rifle with some friends. Something along the lines of her pulling it out of a Imperial's hands and killing him with it after seeing it used on her squad, then having it mounted on her wall next to Gauls pistol.
    "So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
    -Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
  • crimsonlenacrimsonlena Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    This is really pathetic. Grow a pair guy. If you dont like the weapon for whatever dumb reason, theres a very simple solution. DONT. USE. IT.

    See? Isnt that simple then trying to get rid of something thats part of Trek lore?
  • hakazehakaze Member Posts: 81 Media Corps
    highlord83 wrote: »
    I actually RP'd out my main captain getting her agony rifle with some friends. Something along the lines of her pulling it out of a Imperial's hands and killing him with it after seeing it used on her squad, then having it mounted on her wall next to Gauls pistol.

    I misread that as "gauss pistol" and got excited for a second :<
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  • gjohnny1990gjohnny1990 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    Weaponized torture FTW!!! Maybe also add whips and chains? Oh... not that kind of torture...
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Not letting any of someone's characters use it!! What do those characters have to say about that? Cryptic is not forcing people to use or not use the gun, however players are forcing their characters to use it or not. Hypocrisy I say, Hypocrisy!!! ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • mikoto8472mikoto8472 Member Posts: 607 Arc User
    I'm gonna make sure my engineer character gets this before she does Broken Circle. M'Tara needs a good dose of this rifle.
  • jadicusjadicus Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans :smile:
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    jadicus wrote: »
    Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans :smile:

    S31 is not Starfleet nor anything else. Them using the weapon is not an argument for or against anything.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • highlord83highlord83 Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    jadicus wrote: »
    Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans :smile:

    Sec31 avoids my main captain, after she broke Drake's knee on his own holodeck. She also tends to open fire on the Gestapo uniformed scum whenever she sees them.
    "So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
    -Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    burstorion wrote: »
    The op is forgetting that the agony beam is not supposed to kill (well, unless the setting is on max) so compared to killing them outright as we often do (with great relish), surely its better to disable them from combat (OP, just headcanon the beam takes them out of the battle as incapacitated and a new opponent takes their place)

    Think of it like a taser rifle on steroids​​
    The description of the rifle seems to state that the target still takes damage when inside the agony field - which suggest to me that it's a weapon used to kill people, and it happens to do so while inflicting more pain than others.

    It really does not sound like something a Starfleet character would use. I am not so sure about any other faction. The Klingons used pain sticks, after all, though that seemed to have been a lost art after the TNG episode where Worf did his Klingon initiation ritual.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    The description of the rifle seems to state that the target still takes damage when inside the agony field - which suggest to me that it's a weapon used to kill people, and it happens to do so while inflicting more pain than others.

    It really does not sound like something a Starfleet character would use. I am not so sure about any other faction. The Klingons used pain sticks, after all, though that seemed to have been a lost art after the TNG episode where Worf did his Klingon initiation ritual.

    Those weren't weapons though, but part of a ritual. I don't know and highly doubt Klingons would show too much concern about unnecessary pain for their enemies but I assume generally would consider the weapon dishonourable due to the stasis field which renders the target defenseless and thus robs it of a honourable fight. But the majority of Klingons and especially the common footsoldier would use anything to achieve victory and make a name for themselves.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Why would the Klingons care? They seem to have no compunction about executing crew members for incompetence - like what forgetting to restock the toilet paper (nah, that's not a good example), speaking while under cloak, cooking the meat, whatever?
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    burstorion wrote: »
    The op is forgetting that the agony beam is not supposed to kill (well, unless the setting is on max) so compared to killing them outright as we often do (with great relish), surely its better to disable them from combat (OP, just headcanon the beam takes them out of the battle as incapacitated and a new opponent takes their place)

    Think of it like a taser rifle on steroids​​
    The description of the rifle seems to state that the target still takes damage when inside the agony field - which suggest to me that it's a weapon used to kill people, and it happens to do so while inflicting more pain than others.

    It really does not sound like something a Starfleet character would use. I am not so sure about any other faction. The Klingons used pain sticks, after all, though that seemed to have been a lost art after the TNG episode where Worf did his Klingon initiation ritual.

    klingon probably not, blood knights hate anything that slows a fight. the more angry romulans would in a heartbeat... hmm I may have to replay cut the cord after I get it.


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I don't know and highly doubt Klingons would show too much concern about unnecessary pain for their enemies

    they do; the varon-t was banned for exactly that reason​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

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    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    I would like to point out that it isn't the tool that's evil, it's what it is used for by you.

    A tool has no conscience, agreed. But a tool has uses and disadvantages in using it. And what is the use of causing unnecessary pain to somebody? How can this part be used for something "good"?
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    xyquarze wrote: »
    I would like to point out that it isn't the tool that's evil, it's what it is used for by you.

    A tool has no conscience, agreed. But a tool has uses and disadvantages in using it. And what is the use of causing unnecessary pain to somebody? How can this part be used for something "good"?

    breaking enemy resistance faster so there is less lost of life? same reason america used nukes ww II.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    hakaze wrote: »
    thay8472 wrote: »
    It's just a rifle version of the stasis pistol.

    Basically if you get hit with the secondary you become immune to damage for X time. The damage done... well... if you use the secondary you'll just be making X longer to kill.

    it's more the in game explanation of how it works that is repulsive O_o "after suffering the effects of an Agony field" doesn't really help keeping my lunch in either X_X

    I was unable to participate in the Mirror Event because of my main laptop having to go into the shop for (likely) two weeks, so it's a bit of a moot point for me--but I definitely understand your discomfort with the Agony Rifle. I would've taken the dilithium and destroyed the rifle with no regrets. Consider it confiscating and destroying dangerous contraband. You're doing everyone a favor by permanently removing it from circulation.

    IMO it's almost if not actually comparable to the Varon-T disruptor in the intent of its manufacturers so I would treat it as such (illegal, to be destroyed).

    My Fed-Reman wouldn't use it either. She saw people tortured and was perhaps tortured herself during the part of her life when she was a slave to the Romulans. She would be too sick about using it to consider it.

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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    they do; the varon-t was banned for exactly that reason

    The Federation banned them and there were only five (?) in existence, so it was not a weapon mass produced, but at least MA has no mention of Klingon opinion on the weapon. Do they have a line in that episode?​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    they do; the varon-t was banned for exactly that reason

    The Federation banned them and there were only five (?) in existence, so it was not a weapon mass produced, but at least MA has no mention of Klingon opinion on the weapon. Do they have a line in that episode?

    seems it was just the federation; but honestly, a race of belligerents stopping production of a weapon after only 5 prototypes is telling - i certainly don't think mass production was scrapped due to economics or technical difficulties with the design​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • jadicusjadicus Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    jadicus wrote: »
    Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans :smile:

    S31 is not Starfleet nor anything else. Them using the weapon is not an argument for or against anything.​​

    As S31 is an organization whose authority is derived from the Starfleet Charter, the part is one with the body, so S31 is starfleet, as much as any other part of it from shipworks, to r&d, to the pseudo-military academy in san francisco. It's just the part that some people don't want to acknowledge or exist. So, now that it's established that they're as much starfleet as captain fancypants, then YES there IS and Argument for them using it.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    jadicus wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    jadicus wrote: »
    Dunno where people get the idea that starfleet wouldn't use it. Section 31 is there (the id to the starfleet ego). Also the mirror Zefram Cochrane shotgun is a +10 to hit and quadruple dmg vs Vulcans :smile:

    S31 is not Starfleet nor anything else. Them using the weapon is not an argument for or against anything.​​

    As S31 is an organization whose authority is derived from the Starfleet Charter, the part is one with the body, so S31 is starfleet,
    The Earth Starfleet charter. We don't know if that is the same charter as Federation Starfleet. And it seems in fact very unlikely, because if Section 31 is a real part of Federation Starfleet's charter and thus actually sanctioned, than Bashir trapping and killing an agent of Section 31 to sabotage a Section 31 operation would have had serious repercussions, no matter how black ops Sloane was.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    jadicus wrote: »
    (...) So, now that it's established that they're as much starfleet as captain fancypants, then YES there IS and Argument for them using it.

    By my authority I hereby declare that my previous explanation overrules your theory and thus your point is null and void pig-2.gif

    Seriously, nothing you say can be "established". You have to be very ignorant to the things actually happening on-screen to set S31 (a villian organisation for DS9) and Starfleet on equal footing.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
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