The Curse of being a Veteran (And Others Ignorance)

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  • taylor1701d
    taylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    I've yet to be chastised in game.
    I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
    But then again, I'm pretty nice in general, and go out of my way not insult people. Maybe part of it is, "you get what you give", but maybe I'm just lucky to have never been in a failing game with those types that will fly off the handle.

    In any event, the way people are talking here, it's like they see this behavior on a daily basis, I've not witnessed that myself.

    Seen it a FEW times, but outside of a random low level ISE I might run, I tend to run with STB. We tool around, and don't give a frak long as we have fun.

    Go join STB. Save yourself the heart ache.

    Nice MJ clip :smiley:
    I laughed

    you should stick that in the Defiant thread HA
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • talonxv
    talonxv Member Posts: 4,250 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    I've yet to be chastised in game.
    I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
    But then again, I'm pretty nice in general, and go out of my way not insult people. Maybe part of it is, "you get what you give", but maybe I'm just lucky to have never been in a failing game with those types that will fly off the handle.

    In any event, the way people are talking here, it's like they see this behavior on a daily basis, I've not witnessed that myself.

    Seen it a FEW times, but outside of a random low level ISE I might run, I tend to run with STB. We tool around, and don't give a frak long as we have fun.

    Go join STB. Save yourself the heart ache.

    Nice MJ clip :smiley:
    I laughed

    I try. it's devolved basically into "I DO WHAT I WANT!" vs "YOU NEED TO HAVE THE SKILLS!"

    So I eat popcorn and laugh.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
  • ilithyn
    ilithyn Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I heard the Neverwinter forums are worse.

    Being a Neverwinter player also I can confirm that they're worse. A lot worse.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • gaevsprivsman
    gaevsprivsman Member Posts: 314 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I like when someone parses the DPS, so i know what i have to improve, i'm near 10K most of the time, but it's a mix of SCI powers and weapons.. i dont like to install parsers, as DPS is an aftertought for me, but it's good to know from time to time..

    What TRIBBLE me of is when we lose the Kang, and nobody is defending it besides me.. and people let enemy ships clutter the screen.. that's an example, i mean, team work?, anyone?? i try to cover and help as much as i can.. but some people...
  • cidjack
    cidjack Member Posts: 2,017 Arc User
    This is STO, team work is overrated.
    Armada: Multiplying fleet projects in need of dilithium by 13."
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  • rheepark
    rheepark Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    Beam over assault squads=winning. Not beaming over assault squads=leecher.
  • shanker666
    shanker666 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    I've never flamed anyone in the game for not doing a certain amount of dps, and I never will, because that's just a stupid thing to do.
    To be honest, I don't think the topic of this post really adresses you. It specifically calls out peope that do what you do not do, e.g. flaming people for not doing enough DPS, and worse than that, flaming people for not doing enough DPS despite the fact that you actually bring enough DPS, the flamers just don't understand how it was done and think it was done wrong.

    In short, it targets people that will probably never read the post anyway. :)

    Totally agree with most of this, but I think it does address me. I'm just tired of people complaining about dps'ers in general. Damage is a HUGE part of the game in the harder level stf's, and I don't understand why people can't see this. For example, my buddy and I played Hive Onslaught Advanced yesterday, me being a 40k+ dps'er and him a 50k+. Don't know about the other 3 but we were just able to complete the mission without a fail. First time I've done that on advanced and it'll be a little while before I do it again, so as not to mess up somebody else's run because I'm not prepared well enough.

    I do try to be polite but this dps complaining has gotten completely out of hand. All I'm doing is using what Cryptic gives us to maximize my build. Anyone can do the same thing with a time investment. This is just the way the game is, and I can't do anything about that.

    In some stf's pure dps does play a secondary role during some sections, but it always comes back to dps at the end, with a boss with huge shield and hull points. The normal queues are for learning and testing, the others are for players who have made an effort to increase their skills and builds. That is all I'm asking, is learn and upgrade first, then come join us in advanced/elite stf's.
  • nesomumi2
    nesomumi2 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Ignore list works wonders for trolls and flamers.

    yep, works wonders :D
  • damienvryce2
    damienvryce2 Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    talonxv wrote: »
    I've yet to be chastised in game.
    I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
    But then again, I'm pretty nice in general, and go out of my way not insult people. Maybe part of it is, "you get what you give", but maybe I'm just lucky to have never been in a failing game with those types that will fly off the handle.

    In any event, the way people are talking here, it's like they see this behavior on a daily basis, I've not witnessed that myself.

    Seen it a FEW times, but outside of a random low level ISE I might run, I tend to run with STB. We tool around, and don't give a frak long as we have fun.

    Go join STB. Save yourself the heart ache.

    Yes. STB doesn't care what your DPS numbers are. It's all about cool people and good fun. After all, that IS what a game is for, right?

    STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
    I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
  • darkbladejk
    darkbladejk Member Posts: 3,301 Community Moderator
    And I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly in elite queues, which is why I added it. But you still get this attitude even in normal queues, which I pointed out. So where else can a player go to "learn"?
    And after a player has mastered normal, what happens then? Does that mean that's the end of the learning curve? No, they go onto advanced. Where they will have to stumble bleary eyed into the next level. The learning curve continues, hopefully there.

    You learn in normals, then you step into advanced, then if you learn advanced you step into elite. if someone is bashing people in normals then just tell them where to go as that's elitism. Most missions tell you what to do so it shouldn't be too difficult a learning curve. also there are various sources of info out there you can utilize if need be to learn. some people have no excuse anymore. If you're having a problem with normals then get a crew together that can teach you in private matches.
    No, I don't expect broken stuff to stay in the game, you are correct and I concede to this point, but you have to admit they can be very profitable mistakes. That should raise concerns, particularly if the same situation seems to repeats itself lockbox after lockbox offering.
    Doesn't this stuff get tested? AT ALL ?
    Is it unreasonable to ask this with rare stuff that people might spend more REAL MONEY trying to obtain then they might the average C store offerings?

    Things get tested for certain but no matter how good you may get at testing you're not always going to catch everything before it goes live. it's also not as easy as flipping switches when dealing with code and fixing bugs. if one thing is out of place it can royally TRIBBLE up the whole thing. if an ability is shown to be ultra strong then that will drive the prices up, perhaps past a ship in some cases. should it go that high, personally I say no but it does. the mistakes in this case I would just consider mistakes, nothing more.


    Blanket statement, stating the obvious maybe, but Yes I expected that, BUT again, LEARNING CURVE, lots of new players step into this game for the first time. THERE IS A TON to learn for the new player and STO isn't really particularly good at teaching players how to succeed in my opinion.
    The casual player, without help may have a harder time of it that's all. That's where more knowledgeable players role should come in.

    Look, I concede to your point about the harder queues, that's the reason I personally stay out of most of them myself. But this attitude is also in normal queues too.
    Again, not everyone has hours to play the game, some are gonna learn at a different pace.

    You're always gonna find trolls and people who just don't wanna learn, I'm not talking about them.

    Edit


    I wanna add one more point, then I'm done.

    A little courtesy won't kill ya.
    I feel this is important to add. There are a lot of people who behave in a way, I am quite certain would be frowned upon out in the real world. Especially towards players they consider to be noobs.

    I realize I'm not on the popular opinion here, that's okay. This is a video game, not the real world, I know. I can still see ALL your points. But we do deal with REAL PEOPLE some who are not attracted to MMOs particularly as they are to the franchise. We need to keep this in mind too.

    If this game is to continue and thrive, we need new players, lots of them to play and stay. Being DECENT to them might help.

    Maybe then queues might get more attendance then what we've been seeing.

    I put these points together because I intend to address them at once. Your point about people not having time to play is something that I saw time and again over on World of Warcraft before certain features were introduced. I'll tell you the same thing I told those folks because it's just as valid here as it was over there.

    I get that not everyone has as much time to put into the game as I do or that they would like to put into the game. That's a valid point to make but it's only good for so long and so far. Even if it takes you a bit longer to learn the queues, you should eventually learn the queues. The reason you see so much anger and impatience directed towards people is most of us have heard that excuse far too often, "I don't have time to play and I'm learning." The question I ask when stuff like that happens is, how much time do you need to learn a queue? I can't tell you the number of times I personally have seen the same exact people failing again and again in queues. Some of these same people using that excuse. At some point be it normal, advanced, or elite, you have to learn to stand on your own in the queue without someone else holding your hand and guiding you through it. With the resources out there of videos, written guides, and even just getting out there and doing with your own fleet/crew there's no excuse to not learn the queues. There's no excuse for some people to constantly be failing some of the queues I see people failing when they've been out for years.

    At some point it ceases to just be "I don't have time and I'm learning," to they're just using an excuse for their poor performance. If you don't know how to do a queue, let people know or ask someone who's a more experienced player. You're never too experienced to keep learning in game. I've been with this game for a few years now but I still learn things all the time. The moment you think you can't learn, then you've ceased to learn and get better. Most people don't care to help you learn and help you through a queue, but eventually you have to be able to stand on your own 2 feet.

    Even on normal difficulty, your performance effects the team. If you can't deal minimum required damage etc on normal difficulty then you'll never be able to survive advanced or elite. Simply because you're on a normal queue or you're just learning is no excuse not to pull your own weight. No not everyone has hours on end to play, but even if you play 1 hour per day each week, that's 7 hours of playtime each week. You can get ALOT done in 7 hours in this game. You should be able to grasp at least a basic concept of how to run a queue in 7 hours.


    For your edited point now this one is a two way street. Yes there is far too much toxicity in this game and in gaming in general today. Yes some of the more experienced players need to be more patient when dealing with newer players, but the newer players need to be willing to take advice and listen as well. I can't tell you personally how many times I've seen people who were obviously struggling and that couldn't deal the required damage in queues try to throw me and others out the airlock when we dared offer to help them improve. In fact one guy asked me to help him one day on ESD and look his build over. As I did and explained things the guy flipped out and logged off because I pointed out some stuff.

    Too many people in this game have a "i'm doing it my way so buzz off" attitude. I get it some people want to learn on their own and that's cool. When your performance effects the team however, the team has every right to call attention to it and demand that you step up your game.

    I don't care to help people and in fact have been working with a person for several days now at the time I write this. At one point I took this guy into a starbase 24 queue, aggroed everything to him and told him to survive. The first time I did it he didn't last very long. Now he can actually survived for awhile with half the final wave beating down on his ship. I did this because I want the guy to learn and I know he can do better.

    Yes new players are how a game grows and survives. Yes some of the more experienced players need to chill out a bit. The more experienced players need to learn in some cases, you are not hot stuff just because you can deal some damage. The newer players as well need to learn, you are not hot stuff and need to be willing to take advice when your performance effects the team. The more newer players come back at the more experienced players with stuff like that, the more you'll see things like this.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • shinnok918
    shinnok918 Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    It happens a lot these days. Funniest is when the one guy calling everyone noobs has the lowest DPS.

    What irks me the most are the guys doing high DPS who feel the need to post the DPS scores of everyone. It basically saying "look how big my epeen is!"

    Ahh well thank God for the ignore function.

    thankfully ive learned when to and when not to post (to some degree). if I'm parsing a friend itll come up. if I'm insulted, itll come up. otherwise I'm usually parsing to keep an eye on my plasma lance damage....much easier than looking at the combat log.

    ill also berate someone who's doing like 435 dps though (seen not more than 3 days ago)
  • cruzist
    cruzist Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    Huh
  • shrimphead2015
    shrimphead2015 Member Posts: 496 Arc User
    My problem with all of this is the fact that in order to get those high dps stats you really have to make it a full time project. Here's the the dilemma..

    Starship Traits - The ones the pro's show us as being real good come from Lobi/Lockbox/C-store ships. Which means a Dilithium grind or a ec grind or your wallet.

    Reputation Marks - Fine, those you can get on normal but if you need some borg processor/gadget/whatever so you can buy some of the things from your reputation tier you better be doing Advanced or Elite, and your ship already is below standards so you might run into the same problems alot of the posters here are mentioning.

    Anything of Value in the Exchange - Here the prices sound incredibly high for some things and it makes you wonder if it is even worth all the trouble to get the item.

    I'm not saying its all bad but the feeling I get from even these posts makes me think that if you want to really have less hassle playing this game, you better be ready to spend, spend, spend or it's grind, grind, grind. I don't think it matters if you are a Lifer or a FtP the situation has to suck for everybody. Talk about increasing the divide first it was Lifetime/Monthly-sub vs FTP now it seems it's also High DPS'rs vs Low DPSR's! And I don't see a solution in sight...

    “There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

    ― Hunter S. Thompson
  • skymagus00
    skymagus00 Member Posts: 140 Arc User
    Well if you're the Semalda I know, OP, I'll just remind you you're the scariest sci in space I've ever played with (and if they're accusing you of leeching, maybe you should 1v1 them afterwards... in your drainboat. :grin: ). If not, maybe I ought to introduce you sometime, because I think you'd get along. My ingame handle is the same as here.

    Regardless, sci is by far the most adaptable class and definitely capable of good DPS - alongside some very nasty CC, debuffs and heals - so don't let a few flamers who don't understand the nuances of non-tac/non-weapon-based play get you down. Also, there are some DPS-ers who do respect sci - they're just much rarer. Some even ARE sci. Also, many PvP-ers who have been on the receiving end of GW/FBP/drain builds know not to underestimate sci, although that is very different to your average PvE.

    Besides, sci still rules the ground imho. Sure, tac can do damage (OK, and tac speed-builds are great fun); sci can do that AND heal. Eng can be nasty too. Also, if you wanted more ground modules, get the Iconian ones from the exchange before the price rises. Sick of tac flamers in space? Introduce some mirror NPC mobs to a solar gateway+exothermic induction field combo on foot. :)
  • taylor1701d
    taylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    Sometimes when I'm bored, I'll pug ISA, just to carry the team.
    Cause you know, I'm nice like that :smiley:
    Also is good for stroking my ego :flushed:

    I'll carry the young grasshopper/padawan/ensigns, so they too can enjoy in the spoils of Adv.
    IE; BNP's and perhaps one day they can carry others. (Once they get some rep gear)

    Leave no Man/Woman/Alien behind.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • shanker666
    shanker666 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    My problem with all of this is the fact that in order to get those high dps stats you really have to make it a full time project. Here's the the dilemma..



    Reputation Marks - Fine, those you can get on normal but if you need some borg processor/gadget/whatever so you can buy some of the things from your reputation tier you better be doing Advanced or Elite, and your ship already is below standards so you might run into the same problems alot of the posters here are mentioning.


    Actually, in every rep line(except Nukara and New Romulus) you can turn in 100 normal marks for one of the elite marks(borg neural processors, Voth cybernetic implants, etc.) which will help get what you need for the rep gear. A couple of normal stf's will net you enough normal marks to get at least one elite mark per day, for those who have time constraints. This is a time consuming game, for sure, and I understand how difficult it can be for those with too much RL things going on. Maybe this tip will help somewhat. :)
  • ilithyn
    ilithyn Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    rheepark wrote: »
    Beam over assault squads=winning. Not beaming over assault squads=leecher.

    You haven't paid much attention to what the goal sidebar to the right says, have you?
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • metaliant
    metaliant Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    Another way to learn is to play the solo missions. I do this sometimes if I am not doing the battle zones or PvEs. I find it useful to find out what works and not works without pissing off too many people in the Normal PvEs.
    OH MY GOD THEY KILLED JIM KIRK
    YOU TRIBBLE
  • shrimphead2015
    shrimphead2015 Member Posts: 496 Arc User
    shanker666 wrote: »
    My problem with all of this is the fact that in order to get those high dps stats you really have to make it a full time project. Here's the the dilemma..



    Reputation Marks - Fine, those you can get on normal but if you need some borg processor/gadget/whatever so you can buy some of the things from your reputation tier you better be doing Advanced or Elite, and your ship already is below standards so you might run into the same problems alot of the posters here are mentioning.


    Actually, in every rep line(except Nukara and New Romulus) you can turn in 100 normal marks for one of the elite marks(borg neural processors, Voth cybernetic implants, etc.) which will help get what you need for the rep gear. A couple of normal stf's will net you enough normal marks to get at least one elite mark per day, for those who have time constraints. This is a time consuming game, for sure, and I understand how difficult it can be for those with too much RL things going on. Maybe this tip will help somewhat. :)

    THAT information....has made my day ! Thank you ! :)

    “There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.”

    ― Hunter S. Thompson
  • shanker666
    shanker666 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    shanker666 wrote: »
    My problem with all of this is the fact that in order to get those high dps stats you really have to make it a full time project. Here's the the dilemma..



    Reputation Marks - Fine, those you can get on normal but if you need some borg processor/gadget/whatever so you can buy some of the things from your reputation tier you better be doing Advanced or Elite, and your ship already is below standards so you might run into the same problems alot of the posters here are mentioning.


    Actually, in every rep line(except Nukara and New Romulus) you can turn in 100 normal marks for one of the elite marks(borg neural processors, Voth cybernetic implants, etc.) which will help get what you need for the rep gear. A couple of normal stf's will net you enough normal marks to get at least one elite mark per day, for those who have time constraints. This is a time consuming game, for sure, and I understand how difficult it can be for those with too much RL things going on. Maybe this tip will help somewhat. :)

    THAT information....has made my day ! Thank you ! :)

    You are very welcome and I hope that makes things a little better for you. :)
  • greucean
    greucean Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    I don't know where you guys find these jerks really
    I only do elites or advanced where there is no elite and 95% of the time pugs and not to say that these things don't happen because they do, but the vast majority of people in pugs rarely say anything and if they do its mostly civil stuff.
    Its either that or I have most of them on ignore already :).

    As for the Elite DPS ppl I'm convinced they stay out of pugs and prefer the private queues instead. And again most of them are helpful nice people. As you already noticed, its usually the worst player that complains about "n00bs" and not the actually good players. But the ignore function does work very well and there is really no reason to avoid doing something you like because of a few pricks.