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Kemocite is sapping the fun until you get to "what's the point!?"

I'm sure it's fun for those who have kemocite-laced weapons and like to push the upper limits of DPS, maybe enter the all-time-global top 10 if there is such a thing and certainly it is arguably one of the best looking effects in the game. However, if I have to be honest, when I enter an STF with someone who has these weapons I back off too the point of not playing, what's the point?

Kemocite weapons are so disproportionately powered to everything else if you don't have them you can't keep up. Seriously, I was playing in an Advanced Iconian STF and had two guys with kemocite laying down so much explosions that I think I fired my beams once and the entire group of ships was destroyed.

Even the NPC (baddies) stand little chance of surviving or putting up little of any kind of challenge. It doesn't make the game unplayable but it does make it less fun - it is like this is the reverse of the STF revamp when Advance was made impenetrable to everyone who didn't have the very best gear and Elite STFs were an unbeatable pointless hell.

And no, I don't think the solution is if you can't beat them join them. I don't want to fnd 50 - 100mil credits for the training manual on the exchange, likewise the game was about variety - it would be TRIBBLE if we needed Kemocite not to beat the game but simply to play with each other.

Needs fixing.
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Comments

  • stuart1965stuart1965 Member Posts: 691 Arc User
    How can it be less fun if you will be getting the same rewards as the guys who have Kemocite weapons??? Its not as if you'll be in that sort of STF all the time. I would say if you can afford decent weaponry then good luck. The higher the DPS the better. I certainly do not want weaker powered weapons, no sir no thankyou.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    A game with challenge ? That is crazy talk. I mean this game is grind and grind and grind. There is no other point.

    Don't worry about Kemo... Season 11 is around the corner. Which means all the previous Junk gets "fixed" so the new stuff will sell.
  • dondaddyddondaddyd Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    It is not fun to simply sit there and get a reward, because if two at least two guys have kemocite that's all there is to it.

    They fire their weapons and the enemy is destroyed long before the person without kemocite has had a chance to do anything and kemocite laced weapons can be so powerful that anything a person without kemocite could do has been rendered largely meaningless, so again, not fun.

    Fun is found in actually being able to play the game in a meaningful way - STFs (which is pretty much endgame) included.

  • paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    It is not fun to simply sit there and get a reward, because if two at least two guys have kemocite that's all there is to it.

    They fire their weapons and the enemy is destroyed long before the person without kemocite has had a chance to do anything and kemocite laced weapons can be so powerful that anything a person without kemocite could do has been rendered largely meaningless, so again, not fun.

    Fun is found in actually being able to play the game in a meaningful way - STFs (which is pretty much endgame) included.

    If a player can kill as fast as you described, no amount of Kemo nerf will help your problem.

    The problem you describe is not a Kemo problem but a player skill disparity. Certain Players before Kemo were already nuking mobs before an average PuG can react.

    I am not saying Kemo needs a nerf or not. I am just telling you, the reason for your plight aint Kemo cheese.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,720 Arc User
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    Kemocite weapons are so disproportionately powered to everything else if you don't have them you can't keep up. Seriously, I was playing in an Advanced Iconian STF and had two guys with kemocite laying down so much explosions that I think I fired my beams once and the entire group of ships was destroyed.
    Well after years of beam users doing that to Torpedo users I don't see the problem now torpedoes can do it back. Anyway without Kemocite with the new reputation Torpedos are going to be even more deadly at wiping out groups of NPC's then now.
  • dondaddyddondaddyd Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    paxdawn wrote: »
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    It is not fun to simply sit there and get a reward, because if two at least two guys have kemocite that's all there is to it.

    They fire their weapons and the enemy is destroyed long before the person without kemocite has had a chance to do anything and kemocite laced weapons can be so powerful that anything a person without kemocite could do has been rendered largely meaningless, so again, not fun.

    Fun is found in actually being able to play the game in a meaningful way - STFs (which is pretty much endgame) included.

    If a player can kill as fast as you described, no amount of Kemo nerf will help your problem.

    The problem you describe is not a Kemo problem but a player skill disparity. Certain Players before Kemo were already nuking mobs before an average PuG can react.

    I am not saying Kemo needs a nerf or not. I am just telling you, the reason for your plight aint Kemo cheese.

    Agreed the skill disparity is there, but at least in the pass it was bareable because that kind of DPS was mostly limited to one enemy at a time. Kemo, however, makes the problem worse because it does AOE so nuking mobs is an apt term for what is happening now IMO.

  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,720 Arc User
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    paxdawn wrote: »
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    It is not fun to simply sit there and get a reward, because if two at least two guys have kemocite that's all there is to it.

    They fire their weapons and the enemy is destroyed long before the person without kemocite has had a chance to do anything and kemocite laced weapons can be so powerful that anything a person without kemocite could do has been rendered largely meaningless, so again, not fun.

    Fun is found in actually being able to play the game in a meaningful way - STFs (which is pretty much endgame) included.

    If a player can kill as fast as you described, no amount of Kemo nerf will help your problem.

    The problem you describe is not a Kemo problem but a player skill disparity. Certain Players before Kemo were already nuking mobs before an average PuG can react.

    I am not saying Kemo needs a nerf or not. I am just telling you, the reason for your plight aint Kemo cheese.

    Agreed the skill disparity is there, but at least in the pass it was bareable because that kind of DPS was mostly limited to one enemy at a time. Kemo, however, makes the problem worse because it does AOE so nuking mobs is an apt term for what is happening now IMO.
    That's not really right it was never mostly limited to one enemy at a time. Long before Kemo players nuked entire groups of NPC's with torpedo spread. Kemo didn't change that much apart from add lag. Once kemo is fixed the same players will still be nuking the same groups of NPC's with torpedos.
  • dondaddyddondaddyd Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    Saying the same thing over isn't going to get me to agree with you. My experience has been different. I see a lot more beamboats pouring out the upper levels of DPS than I have ever seen torp-builds. Either way Kemo needs and hopefully will get the nerf it requires.

    The other issue with Kemo, along with the unfair advantage, is how its obtained. There is no ingame alternative so is a blatant pay-to-win advantage and only accessible to those who are prepared to purcahse lockboxes and keys to get it. Yes you can purchase the manuals on the exchange but at 90million credit, realistically a player would have to buy zen-store items that can be sold via the exchange to get close to that amount.

    Needs nerfing.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    Yeah yeah, we all know. Cryptic knows.

    We'll get the nerf/fix when we get it.​​
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • semalda226semalda226 Member Posts: 1,994 Arc User
    I agree that keno cite needs a nerf I just got back and have seen the ridiculous amount of damage it has. But to be fair the issue of nuking a mob right out the gate is nothing new, I do it all the time in my romulan temp sci ship ( GW/EWP/RB/TBR/SV) and the hulls go bye bye. But yes kemo is OP and the nerf bat strike will be glorious maybe not a Tau Dewa Class Nerfbat but a good sized one none the less.
    tumblr_mxl2nyOKII1rizambo1_500.png

  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,720 Arc User
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    Saying the same thing over isn't going to get me to agree with you. My experience has been different. I see a lot more beamboats pouring out the upper levels of DPS than I have ever seen torp-builds. Either way Kemo needs and hopefully will get the nerf it requires.

    The other issue with Kemo, along with the unfair advantage, is how its obtained. There is no ingame alternative so is a blatant pay-to-win advantage and only accessible to those who are prepared to purcahse lockboxes and keys to get it. Yes you can purchase the manuals on the exchange but at 90million credit, realistically a player would have to buy zen-store items that can be sold via the exchange to get close to that amount.

    Needs nerfing.
    You don't have to agree with me just don't be surprised that after kemo gets fixed torp boats are still doing exactly the same thing as now. Without kemo the same torp boats will still be 1 volley killing the entire group of probes as they warp in. The kemo fix is not going to change what you complained about with beams not getting chance to kill.

    Realistically a player doesn't have to buy zen store items to be sold on the exchange. Just spend 15mins crafting then sell for 10's of millions. That's what I do, spend a little bit of time crafting Friday, go to sleep then wake up with 100million sold on Saturdays. So I don't see how its pay to win. I never touched lockboxes or zen to buy any of my copy's.

  • bones1970bones1970 Member Posts: 953 Arc User
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    It is not fun to simply sit there and get a reward, because if two at least two guys have kemocite that's all there is to it.

    They fire their weapons and the enemy is destroyed long before the person without kemocite has had a chance to do anything and kemocite laced weapons can be so powerful that anything a person without kemocite could do has been rendered largely meaningless, so again, not fun.

    Fun is found in actually being able to play the game in a meaningful way - STFs (which is pretty much endgame) included.
    This so much bull, kemocite is about 10% of my damage, the other 80k i get with ship-traits (6000 zen & 120 mil. ec), epic anti-proton beam banks and position !!
  • macwilliam1975macwilliam1975 Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    bones1970 wrote: »
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    It is not fun to simply sit there and get a reward, because if two at least two guys have kemocite that's all there is to it.

    They fire their weapons and the enemy is destroyed long before the person without kemocite has had a chance to do anything and kemocite laced weapons can be so powerful that anything a person without kemocite could do has been rendered largely meaningless, so again, not fun.

    Fun is found in actually being able to play the game in a meaningful way - STFs (which is pretty much endgame) included.
    This so much bull, kemocite is about 10% of my damage, the other 80k i get with ship-traits (6000 zen & 120 mil. ec), epic anti-proton beam banks and position !!

    What Bones1970 said.
    screenshot_2014-11-17-20-57-54a1a1a.jpg
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    I do have to say though the QQ that goes... ya ya ya but the torpedos are doing AOE dmg is pretty funny. Like FAW has never existed in this game. STO has been all about the AOE for ages... cause Cryptic stupidly thinks AOES should be as strong as single target skills for some reason, its evident in NW as well. Some silly devs over there.
  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    I'd rather they fixed it first so that a kemo torp spread with a neutronic didn't turn the game into a powerpoint presentation, to be honest.​​
    giphy.gif
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    Well from exploring the public queues this weekend it does seem that the average PUG does prefer to fail a STF rather than be rewarded for beating it. So i guess having a powerful player with or without kemocite that can carry a team is frowned upon in the world of loss and failure :)
  • thedarkphenoixthedarkphenoix Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    I think the problem with Kemo is less to do with torps (though with the always proc on torps it does make torp builds deadly) and more to do with the proc rate on energy weapons. With a 10% proc rate you are still going to get a lot of bang for your 90mil credits on an 8 beam BFAW boat.

    The most obvious nerf would be to decrease that proc rate down by half, or honestly more likely, bring it in line with other energy weaponry procs and drop it to 2.5%. A hopefully minor damage nerf later and you have an ability that is much less attractive to combine with energy weapons and feels less OP on torp builds. And of course, if it hasn't been fixed already, dealing with the bug connected equipping multiple copies of Kemo causing multiple proc activations will help considerably.
    Original wave Lifetimer and Closed Beta tester.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    You guys are basing a perceived OP'ness of Kemo based on it's current bugged performance. It doesn't need a nerf right now, it just needs to be fixed. Once that's fixed, if it is still OP, then nerf it.
  • cassiusdiocassiusdio Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    bones1970 wrote: »
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    It is not fun to simply sit there and get a reward, because if two at least two guys have kemocite that's all there is to it.

    They fire their weapons and the enemy is destroyed long before the person without kemocite has had a chance to do anything and kemocite laced weapons can be so powerful that anything a person without kemocite could do has been rendered largely meaningless, so again, not fun.

    Fun is found in actually being able to play the game in a meaningful way - STFs (which is pretty much endgame) included.
    This so much bull, kemocite is about 10% of my damage, the other 80k i get with ship-traits (6000 zen & 120 mil. ec), epic anti-proton beam banks and position !!

    What Bones1970 said.

    this
  • humblesheephumblesheep Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    I have two torpedo builds with kemocite, while I dont parse, neither has the DPS of my two main beam builds without it.
    Can anyone post some actual data?
  • stofskstofsk Member Posts: 1,744 Arc User
    stuart1965 wrote: »
    How can it be less fun if you will be getting the same rewards as the guys who have Kemocite weapons???
    Everyone should feel like they're contributing to the team's overall success. Even if you're not doing very much damage, it should still feel like you're helping.

  • cassiusdiocassiusdio Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    to the op: what about joining a public q? I am pretty sure kemocite is rather rare there and you can play the shiny saviour with your dps (even without kemo).
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    cassiusdio wrote: »
    to the op: what about joining a public q? I am pretty sure kemocite is rather rare there and you can play the shiny saviour with your dps (even without kemo).


    I pug a lot and I see a heck of a lot of it still...its funny as hell though when two kemo fawwers join the same match, lag each other out and both quit simultaneously​​
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,958 Arc User
    e30ernest wrote: »
    You guys are basing a perceived OP'ness of Kemo based on it's current bugged performance. It
    Isn't that obvious?​​
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,720 Arc User
    e30ernest wrote: »
    You guys are basing a perceived OP'ness of Kemo based on it's current bugged performance. It
    Isn't that obvious?​​
    One would think it would be, but clearly its not for everyone.
  • xapocalypseponyxxapocalypseponyx Member Posts: 577 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    paxdawn wrote: »
    The problem you describe is not a Kemo problem but a player skill disparity.

    Maybe what we need is a sponsorship program. Players with "skill" can act as sponsors for lowbies like myself.

    What this will allow is for the sponsor to use his underlings as "placeholders" for launching queue events, enabling him to launch and solo events at will without any interaction from the sponsored players.

    Skilled players acting as sponsors can then single handedly annihilate event after event, earning rewards for everyone, while the sponsored players do other things. Possibly interact with other programs or even play other games.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    burstorion wrote: »
    cassiusdio wrote: »
    to the op: what about joining a public q? I am pretty sure kemocite is rather rare there and you can play the shiny saviour with your dps (even without kemo).


    I pug a lot and I see a heck of a lot of it still...its funny as hell though when two kemo fawwers join the same match, lag each other out and both quit simultaneously​​

    Had one of these today. Man the language people have today :D. I even managed to learn a few new swear words.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    dondaddyd wrote: »
    Realistically a player doesn't have to buy zen store items to be sold on the exchange. Just spend 15mins crafting then sell for 10's of millions. That's what I do, spend a little bit of time crafting Friday, go to sleep then wake up with 100million sold on Saturdays. So I don't see how its pay to win. I never touched lockboxes or zen to buy any of my copy's.

    Crafting what exactly? 100 beams to get the one triple CRITD that sells for 1 million on the exchange? or 1000 RCS or exciters to get the good trait? WHat am I missing? Please enlighten.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

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