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Torpedo Love!

Man this new rep system is unapologetically designed to boost torpedoes! It also includes traits that make science based torpedo boats even more lethal! The new console reduces torpedo cooldowns AND global cool downs unless I'm reading it wrong! My Scryer will
Most definitely appreciate these new shinnies...
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Comments

  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,774 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    It does seem nice the only thing I don't like about it is the set torpedo is Photon. But that's personal preference. I wonder if the high yield speed boost stacks with the plasma high yield speed boost.
  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    Photons and also much of the basic 6 do need help. I'm just not seeing enough of it here, even now.
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    I prefer Quantum myself but given how many good photons there are, this is nice for people who like to specialize in one torpedo type and boost it with spire consoles. I build my ships to take advantage of the radiation because it penetrates resistances but to each their own!
  • neomodiousneomodious Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    the three photon torp sets together... :D​​
  • johnnymo1johnnymo1 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    just the fact the console boosts the recharge time and the trait that boosts the speed of destructible torpedoes makes this look great. The ability to fire off a second basic torpedo of the same type still makes all torpedo types even better....and kind of mimics the long asked for dual quantums of a defiant class ship
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    johnnymo1 wrote: »
    just the fact the console boosts the recharge time and the trait that boosts the speed of destructible torpedoes makes this look great. The ability to fire off a second basic torpedo of the same type still makes all torpedo types even better....and kind of mimics the long asked for dual quantums of a defiant class ship

    This really puts science based torpedo boats ahead by a mile. It doesn't address the underlying problems with torpedoes it just boosts them to ludicrous levels. But that's ok with me.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    samt1996 wrote: »
    johnnymo1 wrote: »
    just the fact the console boosts the recharge time and the trait that boosts the speed of destructible torpedoes makes this look great. The ability to fire off a second basic torpedo of the same type still makes all torpedo types even better....and kind of mimics the long asked for dual quantums of a defiant class ship

    This really puts science based torpedo boats ahead by a mile. It doesn't address the underlying problems with torpedoes it just boosts them to ludicrous levels. But that's ok with me.


    The foundation needs to be fixed before we start building on top of it. I sense balance issues if this isn't done sooner rather than later.

    Bugs/Intent notwithstanding, the Terran 3pc set will most likely replace the Dyson Protonic Arsenal 3pc set for torps. Currently, "heavy" torps do not benefit from the 3pc set bonus, but regular torps under TS... LAWL! You have to try it yourself. If it's on a ~2min cd, then I see it as fine as-is if other issues remain unfixed for torps. If it's a passive that's always on, that needs to be fixed ASAP, as that's too much going on to make it OP.

    What I think is well done:

    •Torpedo Astrometic Synergy (Passive)
    ◦Using a Torpedo Bridge Officer ability reduces Science Bridge Officer ability recharge times.

    •Regenerative Torpedo Synergy (Passive)
    ◦Using a Shield Healing Bridge Officer ability reduces Torpedo Bridge Officer recharge times.

    ^^^ Brilliant! My only "gripe" is that this should be T2 not T4, as it's not that powerful for T4, and would help people out more at T2. Swap the T2 and T4 positions. I'll expand on the T2 ones below.

    The two piece set bonus for the Munitions Set. BRAVO!

    There's still some issues that need to be addressed:

    The FerroFluid console - the shared torp cd should improve w/ quality. VR = -0.50 | UR = -0.75 | Epic = -1.00

    The three piece set bonus for the Munitions Set needs to be re-thought out. Assuming everything is fixed, and the description = WAI, the window to fire torps to take advantage of this is narrow. It may be fine for "regular" torps, but the "heavies" having to wait 2 seconds before firing.... also, does that delay any other torps that would be eligible to fire, as those torps fired after the heavies would make it to the target first. Now, if this is the "Torpedo Storm" that it is on Tribble for normal torps, I may be persuaded to keep it as-is, but if it changes and the heavies get completely shafted, I'll be sure to get the ever-growing Kinetic Kommunity to raise a point about it.

    T2 Space should be T4. Here's why (imho, of course):

    Diburnium Impact Lattice (Passive)

    Increases your resistance to Phaser Damage and Control effects, such as Holds, Disables, and Knocks.

    With the abilities that the Terran Empire can cripple you with, having high control resists and Phaser damage resistance is big.Shaving ~3sec off of a confuse means the difference between a dead target vs a dead you. So long as the Phaser damage resistance is 'decent', the combo would be worthy of T4.

    Torpedo Pre-Fire Sequence (Passive)

    Torpedoes deal more damage, and Destructible Torpedoes fly faster toward their targets.

    The first part is nice. Kept as-is (and assuming the second part is adjusted upward), it's worthy of a T4 positioning. Now, if you want more people using the Destructibles, 50% should be your minimum speed increase IF nothing else changes. There's so much AoE in this game that they get shot down way too often. If it was only CSV to worry about, I'd tell the pilots to fire where CSV isn't ;), but since the mobs (and people) spam FaW all night long.... If you want to keep it at 33%, increase the hit points of the Destructibles and/or the yield of the Destructibles ON TOP OF the bonus damage. I'm sure you'd want more people spending dil to upgrade these new weapons, and a wider range of people utilizing that 3 piece Munitions Bonus, right?


    Wishes:

    The TTPT (Photon Torp) HY firing mode should be reminiscent of the Enh-BioMolecular Photon. It would do well with the theme of the torp, and probably less calculations made on how much scaling damage each torp in the salvo would do based off of the current target hull. Every little bit helps, right? :)

    No beam bank offering for set bonuses? [shrug]


    More to come...
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    Targetable Torpedoes honestly need to be made untargetable.
    Sure the new trait that boosts their movement speed is nice, but ultimately of very little use with all the AoE spam flying around.
    In the grand scheme of things Tricobalts and High Yield plasma torpedoes are 110% useless, as they are outclassed by torpedoes like the Neutronic and especially the Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo that fires an insanely powerful non-targetable AoE projectile.
    As much as I love that torpedo... what is even the point of slotting a Tricobalt or Plasma torpedo anymore?
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,451 Arc User
    Targetable Torpedoes honestly need to be made untargetable.
    Sure the new trait that boosts their movement speed is nice, but ultimately of very little use with all the AoE spam flying around.
    In the grand scheme of things Tricobalts and High Yield plasma torpedoes are 110% useless, as they are outclassed by torpedoes like the Neutronic and especially the Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo that fires an insanely powerful non-targetable AoE projectile.
    As much as I love that torpedo... what is even the point of slotting a Tricobalt or Plasma torpedo anymore?

    nooooo. the romulan hyper is fine with destructible torps. and if the Omega HYT were not destructible.... yikes.

    I would love to see those two become viable again.
    Spock.jpg

  • gerwalk0769gerwalk0769 Member Posts: 1,095 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    samt1996 wrote: »
    Man this new rep system is unapologetically designed to boost torpedoes! It also includes traits that make science based torpedo boats even more lethal! The new console reduces torpedo cooldowns AND global cool downs unless I'm reading it wrong! My Scryer will
    Most definitely appreciate these new shinnies...

    I appreciate the attention but I'll have to see specifics. I'm sure the abilities look great on paper but I need details. If "faster torpedoes" is equivalent to the HY boost from the Reman set, which I suspect might be the case, then I'll be disappointed.

    Too bad I would need to slot an energy weapon to fire additional torpedoes.​​
    Joined STO in September 2010.
  • johnnymo1johnnymo1 Member Posts: 697 Arc User
    making the target able torpedoes untarget able would farther make the point defence consoles more useless. I would be fine with them being target able after 5K distance from point of being fired and make it so they were untarget able under that distance.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    This looks good for my Phantom torp boat. I'm reserving judgement on my Sci boats though. The crit bonus from Protonic Arsenal is a bit hard to let go with the builds I am going for.

    I'll wait until I try them myself though. On paper it looks really interesting.
  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    I am a torpedo and mine lover and what I see and what concerns me a bit, is the fact that it gets harder and harder to get your hits in. The torpedo has a slower firing rate and there is travel time. On paper it is compensated by the fact that they (can) do a lot of damage.

    My own experience is with a group of good beam dps'rs in for instance the Undine battle zone, by the time I am on target, in range, have it in my firing arc, have launched the weapon etc, the target is already destroyed an not even anymore on the map, when my weapon arrives.

    Torpedoes and mines, great in solo content and CC, everything else, no purpose.
  • bobs1111bobs1111 Member Posts: 471 Arc User
    fovrel sounds like your just doing it wrong. Yes they have a flight time... which shouldn't really matter to you if you have a torp boat. If your torp boat isn't small and fast and built to be in things faces, you should most likely be running beams.

    Fly torp boats like they are Canon ships. Accept these days they will out DPS a cannon boat by an order of magnitude. The flight time doesn't matter if your 2k from your target.

    On this set though... cool more torp sets all good. Photon again though really Cryptic... I mean my pure photon boat with out the cheaty Kemo is starting to edge up to the 100k DPS mark... I guess this new set should push that over.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,774 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    bobs1111 wrote: »
    fovrel sounds like your just doing it wrong. Yes they have a flight time... which shouldn't really matter to you if you have a torp boat. If your torp boat isn't small and fast and built to be in things faces, you should most likely be running beams.

    Fly torp boats like they are Canon ships. Accept these days they will out DPS a cannon boat by an order of magnitude. The flight time doesn't matter if your 2k from your target.

    On this set though... cool more torp sets all good. Photon again though really Cryptic... I mean my pure photon boat with out the cheaty Kemo is starting to edge up to the 100k DPS mark... I guess this new set should push that over.
    The problem with all that is many of the torp boat ships are not small and fast. I don't really want to give up the good torp powers like con firepower by swapping to a small fast agile ships. Due to my Quantums I am more likely to be found flying a Cruiser or Battelcrusier.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    fovrel wrote: »
    The torpedo has a slower firing rate and there is travel time. On paper it is compensated by the fact that they (can) do a lot of damage.

    See that's the thing, its not anymore.
    The Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo has all the advantages of a high hitting targetable Torpedo with NONE of the weaknesses.
    Your Enhanced Bio-Molecular Photon Torpedo - High Yield III deals 217839 (83371) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to Tactical Cube.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    Indeed! I'm glad this was the route I took from the very beginning. Patience has its rewards.

    Of course @darkknightucf's efforts in promoting the Kinetic Kommunity helped massively.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,774 Arc User
    Now we just need some mine love.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    edited October 2015
    bobs1111 wrote: »
    fovrel sounds like your just doing it wrong. Yes they have a flight time... which shouldn't really matter to you if you have a torp boat. If your torp boat isn't small and fast and built to be in things faces, you should most likely be running beams.

    Fly torp boats like they are Canon ships. Accept these days they will out DPS a cannon boat by an order of magnitude. The flight time doesn't matter if your 2k from your target.

    On this set though... cool more torp sets all good. Photon again though really Cryptic... I mean my pure photon boat with out the cheaty Kemo is starting to edge up to the 100k DPS mark... I guess this new set should push that over.

    @bobs1111 umm, what? Also, flight time DOES matter, even when you're nose up on a Tac Cube, you're still going to have ~1sec travel time to the center of the Cube before numbers register.



    ... and I flew badly for a ship of that size.

    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    bobs1111 wrote: »
    On this set though... cool more torp sets all good. Photon again though really Cryptic... I mean my pure photon boat with out the cheaty Kemo is starting to edge up to the 100k DPS mark... I guess this new set should push that over.

    I will say that I agree with you here. There are more photon and plasma offerings than any other torpedo type in this game. With that said, the 3pc Terran Aresenal (or whatever the official name is) does fire the same type of torps that you fire.... so... something? [shrug]
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,723 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    I prefer Quantum myself but given how many good photons there are, this is nice for people who like to specialize in one torpedo type and boost it with spire consoles. I build my ships to take advantage of the radiation because it penetrates resistances but to each their own!

    With this new torp you'll have 2 photon torps that will have radiation procs to them...third is the grav torp...top that with the CC damage console and the 2 piece Dyson set...get lots of Photon and Radiation damage plus the extra 3% crit.

    Seems like Photons are meant to be the king (No Quantum torp boosts in the game I know of).
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,774 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    lianthelia wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    I prefer Quantum myself but given how many good photons there are, this is nice for people who like to specialize in one torpedo type and boost it with spire consoles. I build my ships to take advantage of the radiation because it penetrates resistances but to each their own!

    With this new torp you'll have 2 photon torps that will have radiation procs to them...third is the grav torp...top that with the CC damage console and the 2 piece Dyson set...get lots of Photon and Radiation damage plus the extra 3% crit.

    Seems like Photons are meant to be the king (No Quantum torp boosts in the game I know of).
    I still prefer and fly Quantum torp boots as when you add mines into the picture Quantum mines tend to beat out Photon mines. Quantum can also have 2 strong radiation torpedo's, x2 Thoron Quantum mines, Neutronic & Advanced Radiant Quantum torpedo makes a strong build that rivals the photon builds.
  • spaceeagle20spaceeagle20 Member Posts: 971 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    johnnymo1 wrote: »
    just the fact the console boosts the recharge time and the trait that boosts the speed of destructible torpedoes makes this look great. The ability to fire off a second basic torpedo of the same type still makes all torpedo types even better....and kind of mimics the long asked for dual quantums of a defiant class ship

    This really puts science based torpedo boats ahead by a mile. It doesn't address the underlying problems with torpedoes it just boosts them to ludicrous levels. But that's ok with me.




    Torpedo Pre-Fire Sequence (Passive)

    Torpedoes deal more damage, and Destructible Torpedoes fly faster toward their targets.

    The first part is nice. Kept as-is (and assuming the second part is adjusted upward), it's worthy of a T4 positioning. Now, if you want more people using the Destructibles, 50% should be your minimum speed increase IF nothing else changes. There's so much AoE in this game that they get shot down way too often. If it was only CSV to worry about, I'd tell the pilots to fire where CSV isn't ;), but since the mobs (and people) spam FaW all night long.... If you want to keep it at 33%, increase the hit points of the Destructibles and/or the yield of the Destructibles ON TOP OF the bonus damage. I'm sure you'd want more people spending dil to upgrade these new weapons, and a wider range of people utilizing that 3 piece Munitions Bonus, right?


    ya, I second that.

    P58WJe7.jpg


  • darkknightucfdarkknightucf Member Posts: 1,546 Media Corps
    lianthelia wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    I prefer Quantum myself but given how many good photons there are, this is nice for people who like to specialize in one torpedo type and boost it with spire consoles. I build my ships to take advantage of the radiation because it penetrates resistances but to each their own!

    With this new torp you'll have 2 photon torps that will have radiation procs to them...third is the grav torp...top that with the CC damage console and the 2 piece Dyson set...get lots of Photon and Radiation damage plus the extra 3% crit.

    Seems like Photons are meant to be the king (No Quantum torp boosts in the game I know of).

    The Gravimetric doesn't have a radiation proc to it. Advanced Radiant Quantum, Neutronic, PEP, Enh Bio-Molecular, Har'peng, are all that have a radiation component to them iirc.

    One of the reasons why Neutronic shines is that the radiation damage is applied to shields BEFORE the kinetic damage is. The Advanced Radiant Quantum has all of its radiation damage bypass shields. Granted, it's a nice radiation proc (when it does), but when you're facing tougher opponents, all that kinetic damage is being wasted on shields, and that paltry radiation proc isn't doing anything else for you other than scratching hull. At least the PEP cloud hinders movement AND does lots of radiation damage consistently (and a nice plasma dot).
    @Odenknight | U.S.S. Challenger | "Remember The Seven"
    Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
    Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
    "A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
    I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,723 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    I prefer Quantum myself but given how many good photons there are, this is nice for people who like to specialize in one torpedo type and boost it with spire consoles. I build my ships to take advantage of the radiation because it penetrates resistances but to each their own!

    With this new torp you'll have 2 photon torps that will have radiation procs to them...third is the grav torp...top that with the CC damage console and the 2 piece Dyson set...get lots of Photon and Radiation damage plus the extra 3% crit.

    Seems like Photons are meant to be the king (No Quantum torp boosts in the game I know of).

    The Gravimetric doesn't have a radiation proc to it. Advanced Radiant Quantum, Neutronic, PEP, Enh Bio-Molecular, Har'peng, are all that have a radiation component to them iirc.

    One of the reasons why Neutronic shines is that the radiation damage is applied to shields BEFORE the kinetic damage is. The Advanced Radiant Quantum has all of its radiation damage bypass shields. Granted, it's a nice radiation proc (when it does), but when you're facing tougher opponents, all that kinetic damage is being wasted on shields, and that paltry radiation proc isn't doing anything else for you other than scratching hull. At least the PEP cloud hinders movement AND does lots of radiation damage consistently (and a nice plasma dot).

    Yeah I know it doesn't, why I said 2 photon toprs that have radiation procs (:p)...but it has the mini-GW proc which is nice. While the Advanced Radiant has a Radiation proc the Advanced Radiant is the weakest Quantum torp. The Proc on all 3 Photon torps I imagine should ignore shields...don't know how strong the Terran Photon's radiation damage will be.

    The PEP does Plasma damage though and the Hargh'peng unfortunately isn't affected by Radiation damage (Which kinda upsets me).
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,774 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    Double Post
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,774 Arc User
    edited October 2015
    lianthelia wrote: »
    lianthelia wrote: »
    samt1996 wrote: »
    I prefer Quantum myself but given how many good photons there are, this is nice for people who like to specialize in one torpedo type and boost it with spire consoles. I build my ships to take advantage of the radiation because it penetrates resistances but to each their own!

    With this new torp you'll have 2 photon torps that will have radiation procs to them...third is the grav torp...top that with the CC damage console and the 2 piece Dyson set...get lots of Photon and Radiation damage plus the extra 3% crit.

    Seems like Photons are meant to be the king (No Quantum torp boosts in the game I know of).

    The Gravimetric doesn't have a radiation proc to it. Advanced Radiant Quantum, Neutronic, PEP, Enh Bio-Molecular, Har'peng, are all that have a radiation component to them iirc.

    One of the reasons why Neutronic shines is that the radiation damage is applied to shields BEFORE the kinetic damage is. The Advanced Radiant Quantum has all of its radiation damage bypass shields. Granted, it's a nice radiation proc (when it does), but when you're facing tougher opponents, all that kinetic damage is being wasted on shields, and that paltry radiation proc isn't doing anything else for you other than scratching hull. At least the PEP cloud hinders movement AND does lots of radiation damage consistently (and a nice plasma dot).

    Yeah I know it doesn't, why I said 2 photon toprs that have radiation procs (:p)...but it has the mini-GW proc which is nice. While the Advanced Radiant has a Radiation proc the Advanced Radiant is the weakest Quantum torp. The Proc on all 3 Photon torps I imagine should ignore shields...don't know how strong the Terran Photon's radiation damage will be.

    The PEP does Plasma damage though and the Hargh'peng unfortunately isn't affected by Radiation damage (Which kinda upsets me).
    The Advanced Radiant got fixed and is now in the top 2 most powerful Quantum torpedo's in the game. It can be very deadly when shot into a group of targets. Advanced Radiant even beats out x3 CrtdD, x1pen Quantum's when I was testing.
  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    Torpedoes should get a speed buff. They are so slow compared to ship speed. People have been outrunning their own and other people's torps for years now.
    Not only that but the near 2 second lag between clicking the fire button and the torpedo actually firing needs to be removed. Seeing as 10% shields will block 90% of damage, a speed buff and lag fix would make regular and older reputation torps viable again.
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