Revising/reducing level requirements of Delta and Iconian arcs [and others prehaps.

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  • gulberat
    gulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    Or if it's Normal, since a cat can beat Normal, and I know this, because I've actually let one do so...

    You let your cat run an STF? Video or it didn't happen. :P


    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • ilithyn
    ilithyn Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    tempus64 wrote: »
    This thread is funny. On the one hand you have people who want to rush from start to 60 and so are irritated with being stopped due to the level requirements. Then you have others who get a toon to level 11 or so and then have them sit there doing doffing and maybe some foundry and/or things like traelus until they finally reach 50+ and thus can still do almost all the storyline (I have 2 toons that I started about half way through the summer event and they're at about level 58 and are only up to about the wasteland arc).

    Okay, let's get one thing straight. I do no want to rush to level 60, I'm in no particular hurry. What I am annoyed about is that the story during the Delta arc keeps getting interrupted by the level gate. I hit say level 56 can do 1 mission and 1 set of patrols and then have to wait until 57 to do the next, which - depending on my time available to play - can take as much as a week. It happens in no other part of the story except for the Delta missions and the broken continuity is what really gets to me. As said above, the story of the arc is raelly not that bad, but it's almost feels like Cryptic don't want me to play it.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • bobbydazlers
    bobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,532 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    fovrel wrote: »
    So you say, level up and then play the story missions. That is certainly a method. but, eh, how? The story missions give by far the best xp to time ratio. It is fun to do patrols, reputation missions, queues, whatever, but the fun goes away if you have to do it to get access to other content. You have to play A to play B. There is no problem if you want to play A, but there is if you want to play B.

    I played CCA on several characters, some of them had the project half filled from last year, so I did the event 1 and a half in some cases. I found it fun, so I had no problem to do it, however it did not bring me any noticable xp. The xp gaps between the missions are bad game design and I predict it will be fixed adjusted.

    as I have said previously I levelled up 3 characters in six weeks and if I had concentrated play on 1 character I could have levelled him to 60 in just around 2 weeks, did I not mention I never even started the story mission till after I had reached lv60, I thought I had.
    the story missions might reward higher marks but it all depends on your choice, you can choose to level up to 60 before you start the story's so you can play them one after another uninterrupted or you can play the story missions with breaks in between while you level up to the next story's level requirement, personally for me it was no contest.
    it was pretty obvious to me by looking at the level requirements of the story's that it would be best to level up before I started playing them, I was happy to wait the 6 weeks it took me to level my 3 main characters before I started playing the story missions.
    the thing is once you have played the story's you will have a much longer wait before they give us more story's to play so what's the difference.
    case in point I was up to level 60 long before they even ran the delta recruit event which was the forerunner of the iconian story's and it was still a fair while after that before we got the first iconian episode.
    ilithyn wrote: »
    tempus64 wrote: »
    This thread is funny. On the one hand you have people who want to rush from start to 60 and so are irritated with being stopped due to the level requirements. Then you have others who get a toon to level 11 or so and then have them sit there doing doffing and maybe some foundry and/or things like traelus until they finally reach 50+ and thus can still do almost all the storyline (I have 2 toons that I started about half way through the summer event and they're at about level 58 and are only up to about the wasteland arc).

    Okay, let's get one thing straight. I do no want to rush to level 60, I'm in no particular hurry. What I am annoyed about is that the story during the Delta arc keeps getting interrupted by the level gate. I hit say level 56 can do 1 mission and 1 set of patrols and then have to wait until 57 to do the next, which - depending on my time available to play - can take as much as a week. It happens in no other part of the story except for the Delta missions and the broken continuity is what really gets to me. As said above, the story of the arc is raelly not that bad, but it's almost feels like Cryptic don't want me to play it.

    and so now with the iconian story line you have the same thing anyway 1 episode at a time with a long wait in between not waiting for leveling but waiting for cryptic to release the next episode, and I have a feeling that is the format they will go with from now on, no more whole story lines released all in one go but one episode at a time with breaks in between.
    if that's not broken continuity I don't know what is.
    Post edited by bobbydazlers on

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • jorantomalak
    jorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    Okay, let's get one thing straight. I do no want to rush to level 60, I'm in no particular hurry. What I am annoyed about is that the story during the Delta arc keeps getting interrupted by the level gate. I hit say level 56 can do 1 mission and 1 set of patrols and then have to wait until 57 to do the next, which - depending on my time available to play - can take as much as a week. It happens in no other part of the story except for the Delta missions and the broken continuity is what really gets to me. As said above, the story of the arc is raelly not that bad, but it's almost feels like Cryptic don't want me to play it.

    whe i reached 60 the first time i didnt even relise it i had my sound muted and was just busy blasting the borg to bits for kicks then a day later someone in my fleet told me grats on 60 i was like DA FUQ?
  • scrooge69
    scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,108 Arc User
    strongly agree

    if you haver pre delta toosn that are lvl 50

    you can still NOT paqly throu the delta arc wiothout being forced to lvl up elsewhere in between the missions

    that is jsut wrong you shoudl go to 60 by simply palyn the storyline
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tempus64
    tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    ilithyn wrote: »
    Okay, let's get one thing straight. I do no want to rush to level 60, I'm in no particular hurry. What I am annoyed about is that the story during the Delta arc keeps getting interrupted by the level gate. I hit say level 56 can do 1 mission and 1 set of patrols and then have to wait until 57 to do the next, which - depending on my time available to play - can take as much as a week. It happens in no other part of the story except for the Delta missions and the broken continuity is what really gets to me. As said above, the story of the arc is raelly not that bad, but it's almost feels like Cryptic don't want me to play it.

    What else are you doing? I started playing this game maybe 4 months ago now and I had zero problems going all the way from 0 to 60. I wasn't halted once. Why? Because I did things the way the game was designed. The game is not designed for you to just do story missions. The design of the game expects you to do doffing, side missions, foundry, patrols, queues etc etc etc. as those things become available. So maybe (I really don't know if this is truly how they think at cryptic), the level gating isn't actually arbitrary but to push you to actually do more of the other things in the game to get you more involved in it.
  • bobbydazlers
    bobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,532 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    tempus64 wrote: »
    ilithyn wrote: »
    Okay, let's get one thing straight. I do no want to rush to level 60, I'm in no particular hurry. What I am annoyed about is that the story during the Delta arc keeps getting interrupted by the level gate. I hit say level 56 can do 1 mission and 1 set of patrols and then have to wait until 57 to do the next, which - depending on my time available to play - can take as much as a week. It happens in no other part of the story except for the Delta missions and the broken continuity is what really gets to me. As said above, the story of the arc is raelly not that bad, but it's almost feels like Cryptic don't want me to play it.

    What else are you doing? I started playing this game maybe 4 months ago now and I had zero problems going all the way from 0 to 60. I wasn't halted once. Why? Because I did things the way the game was designed. The game is not designed for you to just do story missions. The design of the game expects you to do doffing, side missions, foundry, patrols, queues etc etc etc. as those things become available. So maybe (I really don't know if this is truly how they think at cryptic), the level gating isn't actually arbitrary but to push you to actually do more of the other things in the game to get you more involved in it.

    like the tv show with weekly episodes, I don't recall anyone complaining that they had to do other stuff in between tv episodes and we didn't have videos or dvd`s so we could watch all the episodes in one go when the original series first aired.
    perhaps they did it like that for that very reason, so you would not blast through the story missions and then start moaning again that there are no more story missions to play, perhaps they did it that way to make the delta story episodes last you a little longer.
    that may be why they have took to releasing one iconian episode a month to make them seem to last you longer.
    it all starts to make sense to me now I think about it.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • ilithyn
    ilithyn Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    tempus64 wrote: »
    ilithyn wrote: »
    Okay, let's get one thing straight. I do no want to rush to level 60, I'm in no particular hurry. What I am annoyed about is that the story during the Delta arc keeps getting interrupted by the level gate. I hit say level 56 can do 1 mission and 1 set of patrols and then have to wait until 57 to do the next, which - depending on my time available to play - can take as much as a week. It happens in no other part of the story except for the Delta missions and the broken continuity is what really gets to me. As said above, the story of the arc is raelly not that bad, but it's almost feels like Cryptic don't want me to play it.

    What else are you doing? I started playing this game maybe 4 months ago now and I had zero problems going all the way from 0 to 60. I wasn't halted once. Why? Because I did things the way the game was designed. The game is not designed for you to just do story missions. The design of the game expects you to do doffing, side missions, foundry, patrols, queues etc etc etc. as those things become available. So maybe (I really don't know if this is truly how they think at cryptic), the level gating isn't actually arbitrary but to push you to actually do more of the other things in the game to get you more involved in it.

    like the tv show with weekly episodes, I don't recall anyone complaining that they had to do other stuff in between tv episodes and we didn't have videos or dvd`s so we could watch all the episodes in one go when the original series first aired.
    perhaps they did it like that for that very reason, so you would not blast through the story missions and then start moaning again that there are no more story missions to play, perhaps they did it that way to make the delta story episodes last you a little longer.
    that may be why they have took to releasing one iconian episode a month to make them seem to last you longer.
    it all starts to make sense to me now I think about it.

    Then why not do it for every arc? I mean, we can as you call it "blast through" the episodes all the way up to the Delta ones with absolutely no problem. And after Delta there's not going to be a problem either as the character will be level 60 and can pick and chose as they like. Yeah, the release of the Iconian mission have been stretched out, but this is going to have no bearing on how the game works after the arc is fully out - which it now is.
    The problem is with continuity, it is lost when you have to go do other stuff for too long. Then there's no reason for playing the missions through continuously, rather I can skip the ones I don't like or have gear I don't want and just stick with the rest of them. If this is what Cryptic intended - for the players to ignore most of the episodes after they turn 60 as they are neither very interesting to play nor have good gear - then congratulations to them, they have most certainly succeeded. If not, then the whole level gating in Delta is an epic fail on their account because it is the one and only time where level gating is an issue.
    If this is such an epic store telling tool it really should be employed in every arc so you can only do them one or two at the time before you need to go do something else to get to the proper level for the next episodes. I mean, just look at how much work Cryptic can spare themselves if they employ this. They could level gate the Cardassian ones so that you had to be say 48 to start them at all and gain one level for each mission you want to do. That should stretch the contents of the game and make sure the players spend proper time enjoying playing the missions rather than just "blast through them".

    Edit: And of course for the Cardy suggestion, one or two missions are not allowed to give players enough skill points to level. They're going to have to do at least 20-30 patrols to cover the gap.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • bobbydazlers
    bobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,532 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    ilithyn wrote: »
    tempus64 wrote: »
    ilithyn wrote: »
    Okay, let's get one thing straight. I do no want to rush to level 60, I'm in no particular hurry. What I am annoyed about is that the story during the Delta arc keeps getting interrupted by the level gate. I hit say level 56 can do 1 mission and 1 set of patrols and then have to wait until 57 to do the next, which - depending on my time available to play - can take as much as a week. It happens in no other part of the story except for the Delta missions and the broken continuity is what really gets to me. As said above, the story of the arc is raelly not that bad, but it's almost feels like Cryptic don't want me to play it.

    What else are you doing? I started playing this game maybe 4 months ago now and I had zero problems going all the way from 0 to 60. I wasn't halted once. Why? Because I did things the way the game was designed. The game is not designed for you to just do story missions. The design of the game expects you to do doffing, side missions, foundry, patrols, queues etc etc etc. as those things become available. So maybe (I really don't know if this is truly how they think at cryptic), the level gating isn't actually arbitrary but to push you to actually do more of the other things in the game to get you more involved in it.

    like the tv show with weekly episodes, I don't recall anyone complaining that they had to do other stuff in between tv episodes and we didn't have videos or dvd`s so we could watch all the episodes in one go when the original series first aired.
    perhaps they did it like that for that very reason, so you would not blast through the story missions and then start moaning again that there are no more story missions to play, perhaps they did it that way to make the delta story episodes last you a little longer.
    that may be why they have took to releasing one iconian episode a month to make them seem to last you longer.
    it all starts to make sense to me now I think about it.

    Then why not do it for every arc? I mean, we can as you call it "blast through" the episodes all the way up to the Delta ones with absolutely no problem. And after Delta there's not going to be a problem either as the character will be level 60 and can pick and chose as they like. Yeah, the release of the Iconian mission have been stretched out, but this is going to have no bearing on how the game works after the arc is fully out - which it now is.
    The problem is with continuity, it is lost when you have to go do other stuff for too long. Then there's no reason for playing the missions through continuously, rather I can skip the ones I don't like or have gear I don't want and just stick with the rest of them. If this is what Cryptic intended - for the players to ignore most of the episodes after they turn 60 as they are neither very interesting to play nor have good gear - then congratulations to them, they have most certainly succeeded. If not, then the whole level gating in Delta is an epic fail on their account because it is the one and only time where level gating is an issue.
    If this is such an epic store telling tool it really should be employed in every arc so you can only do them one or two at the time before you need to go do something else to get to the proper level for the next episodes. I mean, just look at how much work Cryptic can spare themselves if they employ this. They could level gate the Cardassian ones so that you had to be say 48 to start them at all and gain one level for each mission you want to do. That should stretch the contents of the game and make sure the players spend proper time enjoying playing the missions rather than just "blast through them".

    Edit: And of course for the Cardy suggestion, one or two missions are not allowed to give players enough skill points to level. They're going to have to do at least 20-30 patrols to cover the gap.

    the thing is when many of the other story arcs were issued it was different devs and different management plus not as many complaints been made then but have since in the 'we want more missions we don't get enough or quickly enough' sort, so maybe the devs thought make it so we don't play the missions all at once, it was done with the delta storys with levels and it was done with the iconian storys by releasing one mission at a time, it may or may not happen with the next but we will have to see, my betting is it will.

    if they release a cardy faction things would be different, they will just have a few early cardy only missions then they will likely play most of the storys that are there now just as the roms did when they come in, I am talking about new story arcs that come out after you play dyson, passed story arcs the devs cant do anything about.

    it doesn't really matter to me if they lower the mission requirements all of delta to lv50, I am just proposing a hypothesis as to why it is as it is however illogical it might seem.

    whether they will alter it is anybody's guess, my guess is no.

    as I said before the easiest way round it is to level up before you start them and you can do this fine without playing nothing but patrol missions, theres loads of things in the game you can play that will help you level up.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • ilithyn
    ilithyn Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    (snip)
    ...as I said before the easiest way round it is to level up before you start them and you can do this fine without playing nothing but patrol missions, theres loads of things in the game you can play that will help you level up.

    Yeah, I can get to level 56 before starting the Delta missions, sure. And I can also get to 60 without touching them just fine as well. Which btw is what I'm doing from now on and plan on skipping the rest of the Delta arc because the way I recall it, it wasn't exiting enough to sit through once more - last mission possibly excluded - as well as a major number of Iconian missions.

    So the whole thing sort of deafest the purpose of having continuous story missions after first release as there's no real reason once you've played them on one character to play them again on another since most have not that great rewards and the only real motivation is if you want the story itself. Breaking the chain of storytelling, which have been continuous up till then and remains continuous afterwards is beyond illogical, it's self defeating, because it leaves players much less likely to take on the less sterling episodes which they might have played had they simply continued the "ordinary" chain of episodes.

    And I'm not talking about first release since that is something quite different than a permanently barring content. I can understand not releasing all episodes in a new season all at once, the same way TV series don't air a whole season worth of episodes in one go. But permanently barring people from access as they do in the Delta missions is the equivalent of say Netflix only letting you watch two episodes of a series that was aired for the first time last year in one week. That's hardly in Netflix's interest, nor is it in Cryptic's interest to keep players from content that has long since been released.


    And yes the devs can do something about old story arcs, isn't that what they're doing with the Cardy revamp? After all that's an overhaul and reboot of an old arc, but I don't see that one being level gated puzzlingly high. No they're "gated" to a level which you would almost certainly have reached have you played the majority of missions up till that point. Yes you can get to that level by other means, but they're gated to a reasonable level. The Delta missions are not.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • mayito2009
    mayito2009 Member Posts: 643 Arc User
    I dont know, I did all my missions with the free ship you get from leveling and I managed to finish them all.
    Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).

    Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
  • bobbydazlers
    bobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,532 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    ilithyn wrote: »
    (snip)
    ...as I said before the easiest way round it is to level up before you start them and you can do this fine without playing nothing but patrol missions, theres loads of things in the game you can play that will help you level up.

    Yeah, I can get to level 56 before starting the Delta missions, sure. And I can also get to 60 without touching them just fine as well. Which btw is what I'm doing from now on and plan on skipping the rest of the Delta arc because the way I recall it, it wasn't exiting enough to sit through once more - last mission possibly excluded - as well as a major number of Iconian missions.

    So the whole thing sort of deafest the purpose of having continuous story missions after first release as there's no real reason once you've played them on one character to play them again on another since most have not that great rewards and the only real motivation is if you want the story itself. Breaking the chain of storytelling, which have been continuous up till then and remains continuous afterwards is beyond illogical, it's self defeating, because it leaves players much less likely to take on the less sterling episodes which they might have played had they simply continued the "ordinary" chain of episodes.

    And I'm not talking about first release since that is something quite different than a permanently barring content. I can understand not releasing all episodes in a new season all at once, the same way TV series don't air a whole season worth of episodes in one go. But permanently barring people from access as they do in the Delta missions is the equivalent of say Netflix only letting you watch two episodes of a series that was aired for the first time last year in one week. That's hardly in Netflix's interest, nor is it in Cryptic's interest to keep players from content that has long since been released.


    And yes the devs can do something about old story arcs, isn't that what they're doing with the Cardy revamp? After all that's an overhaul and reboot of an old arc, but I don't see that one being level gated puzzlingly high. No they're "gated" to a level which you would almost certainly have reached have you played the majority of missions up till that point. Yes you can get to that level by other means, but they're gated to a reasonable level. The Delta missions are not.

    that's why I said its illogical, I guess at the time they were only thinking of the here and now and not thinking of the future, for the most part and could have been done in the first place exactly the way it has been done with monthly releases like the iconian missions without relying on level barrier but now I am guessing we are stuck with it as it is now, I cant see the devs changing it whether its right or wrong.

    I certainly wont do delta or iconian with alts though they are all level 60, I do like to do all the storys with my 3 main characters though.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • tinkerstorm
    tinkerstorm Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    tempus64 wrote: »
    This thread is funny. On the one hand you have people who want to rush from start to 60 and so are irritated with being stopped due to the level requirements. Then you have others who get a toon to level 11 or so and then have them sit there doing doffing and maybe some foundry and/or things like traelus until they finally reach 50+ and thus can still do almost all the storyline (I have 2 toons that I started about half way through the summer event and they're at about level 58 and are only up to about the wasteland arc).

    The guy saying everything is available at 50 is "sort of" correct. Obviously not the stuff from the arcs that have a level requirement. But he's sort of highlighting the "I'm not in a rush" method. What I've done is when some event comes along, I farm the marks I'll need. Like the summer event. Had all the marks I would need on the level 10-30 toons I had at the time. Hit level 50 with them and reps all done in 20 days. In fact, some of that equipment was available the day after hitting level 50.

    The only thing I really agree with in here is that the equipment like the SOL set would be useful much earlier. But then again all games including this one suffer from this design issue. Equipment you could use for some mission/arc or whatever, is rewarded from the missions themselves lol.

    I have a Klingon alt that I started way back when there were no Klingon story missions. I leveled him on PvP (PvP lol) and grinding the expanse. I guess I did about half a dozen missions when they were finally added, because the other day I logged in to him for the first time in years and looked at the mission replays under episodes. He is level fifty and when I get around to it I can play all of the missions except the new tutorial and only about 6 are marked for Replay. I have no idea what it will be like given that his current gear is subprime real estate. But at least he'll get XP!
  • irm1963
    irm1963 Member Posts: 677 Arc User
    My most recent (non-Delta) character created post-DR just hit level 57 during the Cardassian arc. Simply ran the episodes, queues every few days when I needed the Daily Reward Marks to keep my Reps ticking over and doffing once most days. You shouldn't need to be doing any more than that to meet the level requirements by the time you hit the Delta stuff.
  • mjrkraken
    mjrkraken Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    As was said NEW toons reach 60 fine more or less, older toons however suffer from slow progression as EXP grinding at 50 to 60 is long winded with out being able to do missions from story arcs [IE will have already done them before]. Coupled with the steep requiraments it isn't as fun. With the rdux of the cardie arc taking a chuck of mid range missions out, and the growing number of level 60 only missions [with the possiblitly of more come season 11 and beyond, some shuffling of level requirements for the 50+ missions would be a welcome change. [Edited because raisans]