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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Timey Wimey Stuff

flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion

Just finished playing Midnight, and SPOILERS HERE; once we've assisted the Iconian in escaping from their fate, we collect that Orb and then return to the present to strike a deal with them. The Orb in exchange for an end to the war. Now, if we've suddenly got the ability to travel through time, why not just take the Orb back to a point in time before the war even starts, contact the Iconians (we know where they're going to be) and save all the lost lives? Hmmm...
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Comments

  • lordinsanelordinsane Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Given that we found out at the end that this method of time-travel is subject to predestination paradoxes, we'd realize that by this specific ability to travel through time we can't just take the Heart back to a point in time before the war even starts because if we would do that we already would have done that, and we obviously didn't since the Iconians didn't get the World Heart until the Battle of Sol.
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    There was no time left to have the Krenim Ship initiate another Time jump. It was do or die.
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  • sorceror01sorceror01 Member Posts: 1,042 Arc User
    lordinsane wrote: »
    Given that we found out at the end that this method of time-travel is subject to predestination paradoxes, we'd realize that by this specific ability to travel through time we can't just take the Heart back to a point in time before the war even starts because if we would do that we already would have done that, and we obviously didn't since the Iconians didn't get the World Heart until the Battle of Sol.

    Exactly.
    Predestination Paradoxes essentially mean that we were always going to be The Other, and that Sela was always going to be the one to blacken T'Ket's heart. And that, sadly, we were responsible for not only saving M'Tara, but ending her as well.
    Such paradoxes are often pesky because there's really no way around them without massive temporal splintering. Best just to deal with it as it unfolds and keep your fingers crossed.
    ".... you're gonna have a bad time."
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    sorceror01 wrote: »
    Such paradoxes are often pesky because there's really no way around them without massive temporal splintering. Best just to deal with it as it unfolds and keep your fingers crossed.

    I have a better idea.

    It's an vastly overused plot device, especially with Star Trek and it should never be used again.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    Vastly overused is vastly overused by folks who love to exaggerate,
    EEEEEEVVV-EEEEEER-EEEEEEE-THIIIIIIIIING! :: rolls eyes ::

    Come on now. That was funny. :smiley:
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  • ashrod63ashrod63 Member Posts: 384 Arc User
    drakethewhite wrote: »
    I have a better idea.

    It's an vastly overused plot device, especially with Star Trek and it should never be used again.

    Never used again? Time travel is the future (no pun intended). What happens once the galaxy has been fully explored and the Federation has absorbed everything? Unless they can crack the galactic barrier they are stuck.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    ashrod63 wrote: »
    drakethewhite wrote: »
    I have a better idea.

    It's an vastly overused plot device, especially with Star Trek and it should never be used again.

    Never used again? Time travel is the future (no pun intended). What happens once the galaxy has been fully explored and the Federation has absorbed everything? Unless they can crack the galactic barrier they are stuck.

    Did you know that the galactic barrier is made of Q? :)

    Sorry for the aside. :|

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  • omgbamf00omgbamf00 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    I'd like to know how we knew the exact date to go back in time to. Not to mention that immediately after exiting the portal, Noye said we went back "approximately" 200,000 years. Um.... shouldn't we know the exact stardate, down to the millisecond?
  • ggsimmonds84ggsimmonds84 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    Which answer do you want? The immersion friendly answer or the break the 4th wall answer?

    The former option has been addressed, but the latter is that it would undo many of our actions. Sure we could do it, but after completing the mission you will be wondering why you are now a lowly LT and most of your gear is gone.
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,782 Arc User
    mrspidey2 wrote: »
    There was no time left to have the Krenim Ship initiate another Time jump. It was do or die.
    Now, keep in mind I liked the story and this ep, but, I am still not sure why the time ship needed to come to the location of the great big final battle. :smiley:

    Shouldn't the group of ships making the time jump, and the Krenim ship, have gone some where, where no battles were raging? Off of the top of my head, even the Iconian system might have been a better choice since they were all off fighting in Sol?

    You know what, I take that back. Our hero has to be in the big battle. It's a game and big space battles are a part of the adventure. Even if it was not a perfect denouement, it is necessary for a games story and to keep the action flowing. :)

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  • jbmaverickjbmaverick Member Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I'm more concerned how T'Ket knew Sela was Romulan when, according to Memory Alpha, the Romulans didn't really even exist until around 4th Century Earth time (Time Of Awakening - the time around which the Vulcans and Romulans split apart), which is quite a bit further forward than 200k years in the past.
    The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,664 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    There was probably some chat happening "off camera" in between the scenes we played. Or maybe Kagran mentioned he had "friends" from other species that also went through the "chroniton nebula" and they were separated.

    Edit: or maybe it was just Iconian super-science, "indistinguishable from magic," When she wanted to know Sela's race she plucked it from surface thoughts, or scanned whatever data storage Sela carried with her.
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    ashrod63 wrote: »
    drakethewhite wrote: »
    I have a better idea.

    It's an vastly overused plot device, especially with Star Trek and it should never be used again.

    Never used again? Time travel is the future (no pun intended). What happens once the galaxy has been fully explored and the Federation has absorbed everything? Unless they can crack the galactic barrier they are stuck.

    As far as STO is concerned I don't think time should be used again. It's just a lazy plot device, the ever convenient way to fix anything and everything. And it never takes into account the full ramifications and damage meddling with the timeline does.​​
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    ^Except that all those points were adressed during this war and nothing was "fixed".
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  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I loved this storyline, its better that we were the good guys and Sela was the bad guy all along, she was the one that CAUSED the Iconians to go on their war of rampage across possible two or three galaxies after they lost their home world.

    As well, I would say the Mirror Universe defeated the Iconians in the past and brought their technology to the future. Since they don't care about the ramifications of time travel, all they want is more technology to kill us in the Prime Universe. =P

    Unless, they were apart of the bombardment on the Iconians Home world in the past but also had technology to disable the Gateways from a even more powerful empire than the Iconians.
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    No, the Terran Empire won by using temporal ships from their 29th century. You can see them in Counterpoint. They even have temporal dreadnoughts.
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  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    mrspidey2 wrote: »
    No, the Terran Empire won by using temporal ships from their 29th century. You can see them in Counterpoint. They even have temporal dreadnoughts.

    I remember seeing a temporal dreadnought in that Mirror Universe Invasion Event too.
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    So we went into the past to make up with the Iconians, and the mirror universe went into the future to find weapons against the Iconians? Interesting. Both are of course predestination paradoxes... Though I wonder if this means that the Mirror Universe did not have a Hobus Event and a T'Ket hell bent on making the Romulans pay?​​
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  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    So we went into the past to make up with the Iconians, and the mirror universe went into the future to find weapons against the Iconians? Interesting. Both are of course predestination paradoxes... Though I wonder if this means that the Mirror Universe did not have a Hobus Event and a T'Ket hell bent on making the Romulans pay?​​

    I think Romulans were assimilated in the Mirror Universe... by the Borg.. lol
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    Well that gets us back to the decade old debate of the exact nature of the mirror universe and where exactly the point of divergence was, if there ever was any.
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  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    The Mirror Universe's point of divergence was probably before Star Trek: Enterprise. Aka the Prequel series.

    Before or after World War 3, possibly.
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • mrspidey2mrspidey2 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    I don't think there ever was one. I see the MU as one of infinite parallel timelines. In Infinity, the probability for anything to happen is 100%. The MU might just be a timeline with a very odd quantum state that is kind of connected to ours but has everything happen "inverse". You know...like an actual mirror.
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  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    There was an episode called 'In Mirror Darkly' so it could be possible that the Mirror Universe is just the Evil Cousins we didn't want in the Prime Universe.
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • deaftravis05deaftravis05 Member Posts: 4,885 Arc User
    jbmaverick wrote: »
    I'm more concerned how T'Ket knew Sela was Romulan when, according to Memory Alpha, the Romulans didn't really even exist until around 4th Century Earth time (Time Of Awakening - the time around which the Vulcans and Romulans split apart), which is quite a bit further forward than 200k years in the past.


    So glad I'm not the only one to notice
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