i am not quite ready to unleash the Covariant shield array mk XII [Assimilated][Adapted M.A.C.O.][Jem'Hadar] on the universe.
this wouldnt be an issue with my suggested system.
since [Assimilated],[Adapted M.A.C.O.] and [Jem'Hadar] would all be "<rep/faction> systems modules". not "enhancement modules" which would be the [cap], [reg], [resa] etc.
that's why I would suggest [Assimilated],[Adapted M.A.C.O.] and [Jem'Hadar] are unique and you can have only one unique module on your items. so if you have one you can't have the others.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
Actually a system like that could work, if we 'borrow' from the kit system, each module slot could be limited to specific module types, or vice versa.
This would allow for an [Aegis] module to be limited to 'unique' slots where as other modules like [Cap] or [Reg] would be universal modules, which would fit in any module slot. (even a 'unique' slot should the player not have any unique modules.)
That would be a very cool way to have uniquely modified Rep gear!
I actually like that idea of item customization, it would allow for near limitless customization options for equipment!
Actually a system like that could work, if we 'borrow' from the kit system, each module slot could be limited to specific module types, or vice versa.
This would allow for an [Aegis] module to be limited to 'unique' slots where as other modules like [Cap] or [Reg] would be universal modules, which would fit in any module slot. (even a 'unique' slot should the player not have any unique modules.)
I specifically proposed this because I knew the dev team has done similar things. the new kit system was my inspiration for this suggestion. the thing that pisses me of about the crafting system is that they are 90% there. it's just so frustrating to not see them go all the way. it's really just a tweek like adding this on that makes the difference.
I think the unique slots are an excellent solution.
when and if the change is made STO will have a crafting system that can be used as a selling point for the game.
That would be a very cool way to have uniquely modified Rep gear!
I actually like that idea of item customization, it would allow for near limitless customization options for equipment!
I think your reaction will be the average response not just from the current players but also new comers when they are told about it. it can help draw players in.
also the upgrading system is so prohibitive. when i am decked out whit mk14 gold items its a huge step back to mk12 purples. I would not try out the Iconinan resistance gear it would always under preform due to being of a lower mk and rarity...
however if i can take out the [Iconinan Resistence] unique mod and place it into the mk14 gold I own i can then make a realistic comparison.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
Aye, running item customization like kit frames are now would be a massive improvement to crafting and STO as a whole.
The only downside I can see is that in its current state kit frames/modules are incompatible with the upgrade system, and until that is solved I doubt that the devs would look into expanding the kit frame system into other item types.
I'm not saying it is a bad idea or shouldn't be looked into, when the time it right, but it wouldn't be very smart of Cryptic to move currently upgradeable items into a system which would make them unable to be upgraded.
And I do agree with you, the R&D system has a great framework (crafting components from materials then useable equipment from components is really what a great system is made on, in my opinion), but its implementation comes off a bit half-assed.
If you've ever tried to craft a MK XII armor console and needed an Ejection System, Warp Field Regulator, and Intermix Chamber you'll know what I mean...
Seriously, what do those components have to do with an armor plate? Actually none of the components required in making armor plates through R&D make much sense (perhaps the industrial replicator supplies, but not much else), there should be more variety in components for crafting various pieces of equipment.
Aye, running item customization like kit frames are now would be a massive improvement to crafting and STO as a whole.
The only downside I can see is that in its current state kit frames/modules are incompatible with the upgrade system, and until that is solved I doubt that the devs would look into expanding the kit frame system into other item types.
I'm not saying it is a bad idea or shouldn't be looked into, when the time it right, but it wouldn't be very smart of Cryptic to move currently upgradeable items into a system which would make them unable to be upgraded.
I agree whit you. I hope that crypic makes fixing this a high priority and then roles this out to all other items.
the system doesn't need to be as hot swapable as the kit system though. that make sense for kits not for deflectors, warp cores and shield generators. I am okay whit it taking some time to convert the items over and the use of doffs. to me that would just add to the flavor. the boffs are my officers and the doffs my crew. it would feel so natural to order my crew to overhaul the main deflector and customize the ship to my liking. over time the ship would more and more become my own.
And I do agree with you, the R&D system has a great framework (crafting components from materials then useable equipment from components is really what a great system is made on, in my opinion), but its implementation comes off a bit half-assed.
If you've ever tried to craft a MK XII armor console and needed an Ejection System, Warp Field Regulator, and Intermix Chamber you'll know what I mean...
just look at the deflectors there are 17 modifiers and an epic(gold) quality one has 5 slots so its really 5^17=762939453125 possible combinations good luck getting the exact right one out of a random roll it's 1 out of 0,76 Trillion.
just let me deconstruct the random generated ones and the looted ones for a module and then combine the modules into the item of my choice. it's a lot better than getting disappointed several hundred times before giving up.
Seriously, what do those components have to do with an armor plate? Actually none of the components required in making armor plates through R&D make much sense (perhaps the industrial replicator supplies, but not much else), there should be more variety in components for crafting various pieces of equipment.
this is kind of the problem whit crafting if you have replicators. all you need is industrial sized replicators and massive generators. you'd produce everything like that even star ships. your only true limit on the production would be the amount of energy more energy means bigger sections that you then wield together just like seafaring ships today.
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
If the module customization idea were used, it wouldn't matter what [Mod]s came on an item as we could just remove the modules and pop in a different one. Likely at a workbench or crafting station of some kind, but it would be much better than crafting a metric TRIBBLE-ton of mk IIs and hoping for the right combination of [mod]s.
The current system is akin to gambling for the desired results, and I abhor gambling in any form. Which is why I don't open lockboxes, or participate in these gamble-box promotions like the Krenim ship promotion currently in-progress.
Being able to re-roll an item's [Mod]s would be an improvement as we wouldn't have to constantly craft equipment in hopes of getting that perfect item, but being able to customize the [Mod]s like we can kits would be the most desireable way to get the perfect gear.
I can see a few hiccups with this system, however.
1. Advanced Fleet Weapons don't have anything special to them, they're just UR weapons with 4 [Mod]s, a new custom fused (non-removable) [Mod] would likely be needed.
2. Elite Fleet Weapons have a unique [Mod], which will likely have to be fused into the weapon should this system be implemented.
3. Other Fleet Equipment, likely same issues as Elite Fleet Weapons, the 'special' [Mod]s would likely need to be fused.
4. Unique Reward Items, like the Tetryon beams from 'The New Link', the unique [Mod]s would need to be fused.
5. Reputation gear/set items, the problem here is I believe the set functions are dependant on the item not the [Mod]s, so it would be difficult if not impossible to extract the custom features like [Aegis] or [Adapted M.A.C.O.] from them and keep the set bonuses, unless the set bonuses were applied to the modules, hmm...
Fusing the special [Mod]s in the unique items would solve the problems of being able to make special items less special, though, it may result in fewer [Mod]s being able to be used with the items. Not a complaint, just an observation.
In theory it might even be possilbe to have an [Energy Type] module slot for weapons, which would allow players to slot their preferred energy type into the weapon, like [Phaser] or [Disruptor]. That would make it possible to get/craft a [CrtD]x3 beam array and swap out the [Energy Type] module for [Phased Biomatter] and have a most rare and useful weapon.
This would mean that it would be possible to have a Phased Tetryon Beam Array MK XII [CrtD]x2 [Over], which would be pretty awesome but kinda confusing since [Over] is a crafted [Mod] and would likely need to be placed in the 'unique' slot on the weapon so you couldn't have an [Over]x3 weapon. Haha.
Overall this kind of system would be most player friendly and might even make crafting equipment and creating/adjusting builds more enjoyable for players, which could result in players investing more resources into outfitting alts which means more $$ for Cryptic.
Win/Win, yes?
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, if you made it this far I'd like to thank you for wasting your time reading all of this. lol
Edit: Included skollulfr's kit inspired item modification idea into my original post (with appropriate explanations/examples)
The current system is akin to gambling for the desired results, and I abhor gambling in any form. Which is why I don't open lockboxes, or participate in these gamble-box promotions like the Krenim ship promotion currently in-progress.
I want that ship so bad....
I hate cryptic for making it a price ship. it's worth more to me than all the other T6 ships combined....
I can see a few hiccups with this system, however.
1. Advanced Fleet Weapons don't have anything special to them, they're just UR weapons with 4 [Mod]s, a new custom fused (non-removable) [Mod] would likely be needed.
2. Elite Fleet Weapons have a unique [Mod], which will likely have to be fused into the weapon should this system be implemented.
- 1/2- this is true of adv fleet, but that could be fixed by giving them a depreciated version of the mod of the elite version. and the effect of this mod could possibly be a stat of the "weapon frame" rather than a mod, to save complication
I tend to agree whit skollulfr here. that would be a property of the weapon frame. the loss of a module slot can be an associated cost. this is however part of the realm of balancing but it's a good idea to look ahead and see how a system like this would impact balance and what can be done to maintain it. the good news there are plenty options to balance the system out.
I am not sure but some player may like the basic frame the advanced fleet weapons offer. it's an easy way to acquire a Ultra Rare Mk XII frame if you can afford it.
3. Other Fleet Equipment, likely same issues as Elite Fleet Weapons, the 'special' [Mod]s would likely need to be fused.
the elite fleet warpcores would probably be very popular frame due to there unique nature. I am not against giving these a unique mod slot so they can be made part of a set. this is one of the few cases where rethinking the gear would be better. I'd say buy those as they are now. they keep the same stats but have an unfilled unique mod slot added to them for the player to fill.
- 4 - doing this would take away part of the value of this system. since with a [damage type] module you could replace the mission reward weapons with [polarised tetryon] or [dominion polaron] damage type mod in order to create whatever weapon you wanted. rather than being limited to just the beam array.
currently these special damage type weapon have one less modifier. I'd say keep it that way the damage type is incorporated into the frame at the cost of a mod slot. you earn them the regular way and then you are free to mod them the way you want.
5. Reputation gear/set items, the problem here is I believe the set functions are dependant on the item not the [Mod]s, so it would be difficult if not impossible to extract the custom features like [Aegis] or [Adapted M.A.C.O.] from them and keep the set bonuses, unless the set bonuses were applied to the modules, hmm...
- 5 - not an issue. the romulan navy set is made up of a shield+armour+module combination. indeed, this would simplify some set combinations since all the rep am and sing cores could be replaced with a single module that slots into a core.
same for some of the rep weapon sets, eg, the iconian resistance gives the choice between a beam and a DHC, with damage type modules, these could be replaced with a single [iconian resistance AP] item.
my idea was to have the unique mods like [Aegis] and [Adapted M.A.C.O.] to carry all the properties of the set. this includes Visuals, power bonuses, counting to the set bonus and all other properties associated whit the set.
the iconian resistance gives the choice between a beam and a DHC, with damage type modules, these could be replaced with a single [iconian resistance AP] item.
exactly.
only the consoles would be unaffected. they are essentially mod for your ship instead of your gear.
Overall this kind of system would be most player friendly and might even make crafting equipment and creating/adjusting builds more enjoyable for players, which could result in players investing more resources into outfitting alts which means more $$ for Cryptic.
Win/Win, yes?
I think so yes...
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
Advanced fleet weapons could be addressed by giving up a [Dmg] mod that they currently have and giving them a unique module [Ac/Dm], this would take up the unique slot so it would be mutually exclusive with elite fleet weapons since their [sHeal] module would also be unique.
Also the [Chance], [Over], and [Pen] unique modules would also be restricted from stacking with fleet modules which would balance the whole system out.
It occurs to me that the Epic quality [Mod]s would need to be fused since they are specific to item types, [Ac/Dm] for weapons, [W->S] for warp cores, and even a few Ultra Rare items have specific [Mod]s that could pose problems.
Ultra Rare specific [Mod]s might have to be unlocked to the randomness that we currently enjoy to make them work with this system...
Hmm, It occurs to me that certain 'one per ship' items could have issues with the proposed system, such as the Ancient Antiproton Omni-Directional Beam or the new Omni Tetryon beam.
I'd suspect that such items would have to have the item frame 'one per ship' with the [Energy Type] module fused, or possibly some kind of 'back-end unique limitation category to be placed on the specific [Energy Type] modules from items like this.. *scratches head*
Comments
that's why I would suggest [Assimilated],[Adapted M.A.C.O.] and [Jem'Hadar] are unique and you can have only one unique module on your items. so if you have one you can't have the others.
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
This would allow for an [Aegis] module to be limited to 'unique' slots where as other modules like [Cap] or [Reg] would be universal modules, which would fit in any module slot. (even a 'unique' slot should the player not have any unique modules.)
That would be a very cool way to have uniquely modified Rep gear!
I actually like that idea of item customization, it would allow for near limitless customization options for equipment!
I specifically proposed this because I knew the dev team has done similar things. the new kit system was my inspiration for this suggestion. the thing that pisses me of about the crafting system is that they are 90% there. it's just so frustrating to not see them go all the way. it's really just a tweek like adding this on that makes the difference.
I think the unique slots are an excellent solution.
when and if the change is made STO will have a crafting system that can be used as a selling point for the game. I think your reaction will be the average response not just from the current players but also new comers when they are told about it. it can help draw players in.
also the upgrading system is so prohibitive. when i am decked out whit mk14 gold items its a huge step back to mk12 purples. I would not try out the Iconinan resistance gear it would always under preform due to being of a lower mk and rarity...
however if i can take out the [Iconinan Resistence] unique mod and place it into the mk14 gold I own i can then make a realistic comparison.
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
The only downside I can see is that in its current state kit frames/modules are incompatible with the upgrade system, and until that is solved I doubt that the devs would look into expanding the kit frame system into other item types.
I'm not saying it is a bad idea or shouldn't be looked into, when the time it right, but it wouldn't be very smart of Cryptic to move currently upgradeable items into a system which would make them unable to be upgraded.
And I do agree with you, the R&D system has a great framework (crafting components from materials then useable equipment from components is really what a great system is made on, in my opinion), but its implementation comes off a bit half-assed.
If you've ever tried to craft a MK XII armor console and needed an Ejection System, Warp Field Regulator, and Intermix Chamber you'll know what I mean...
Seriously, what do those components have to do with an armor plate? Actually none of the components required in making armor plates through R&D make much sense (perhaps the industrial replicator supplies, but not much else), there should be more variety in components for crafting various pieces of equipment.
I agree whit you. I hope that crypic makes fixing this a high priority and then roles this out to all other items.
the system doesn't need to be as hot swapable as the kit system though. that make sense for kits not for deflectors, warp cores and shield generators. I am okay whit it taking some time to convert the items over and the use of doffs. to me that would just add to the flavor. the boffs are my officers and the doffs my crew. it would feel so natural to order my crew to overhaul the main deflector and customize the ship to my liking. over time the ship would more and more become my own.
just look at the deflectors there are 17 modifiers and an epic(gold) quality one has 5 slots so its really 5^17=762939453125 possible combinations good luck getting the exact right one out of a random roll it's 1 out of 0,76 Trillion.
just let me deconstruct the random generated ones and the looted ones for a module and then combine the modules into the item of my choice. it's a lot better than getting disappointed several hundred times before giving up.
this is kind of the problem whit crafting if you have replicators. all you need is industrial sized replicators and massive generators. you'd produce everything like that even star ships. your only true limit on the production would be the amount of energy more energy means bigger sections that you then wield together just like seafaring ships today.
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
The current system is akin to gambling for the desired results, and I abhor gambling in any form. Which is why I don't open lockboxes, or participate in these gamble-box promotions like the Krenim ship promotion currently in-progress.
Being able to re-roll an item's [Mod]s would be an improvement as we wouldn't have to constantly craft equipment in hopes of getting that perfect item, but being able to customize the [Mod]s like we can kits would be the most desireable way to get the perfect gear.
I can see a few hiccups with this system, however.
1. Advanced Fleet Weapons don't have anything special to them, they're just UR weapons with 4 [Mod]s, a new custom fused (non-removable) [Mod] would likely be needed.
2. Elite Fleet Weapons have a unique [Mod], which will likely have to be fused into the weapon should this system be implemented.
3. Other Fleet Equipment, likely same issues as Elite Fleet Weapons, the 'special' [Mod]s would likely need to be fused.
4. Unique Reward Items, like the Tetryon beams from 'The New Link', the unique [Mod]s would need to be fused.
5. Reputation gear/set items, the problem here is I believe the set functions are dependant on the item not the [Mod]s, so it would be difficult if not impossible to extract the custom features like [Aegis] or [Adapted M.A.C.O.] from them and keep the set bonuses, unless the set bonuses were applied to the modules, hmm...
Fusing the special [Mod]s in the unique items would solve the problems of being able to make special items less special, though, it may result in fewer [Mod]s being able to be used with the items. Not a complaint, just an observation.
In theory it might even be possilbe to have an [Energy Type] module slot for weapons, which would allow players to slot their preferred energy type into the weapon, like [Phaser] or [Disruptor]. That would make it possible to get/craft a [CrtD]x3 beam array and swap out the [Energy Type] module for [Phased Biomatter] and have a most rare and useful weapon.
This would mean that it would be possible to have a Phased Tetryon Beam Array MK XII [CrtD]x2 [Over], which would be pretty awesome but kinda confusing since [Over] is a crafted [Mod] and would likely need to be placed in the 'unique' slot on the weapon so you couldn't have an [Over]x3 weapon. Haha.
Overall this kind of system would be most player friendly and might even make crafting equipment and creating/adjusting builds more enjoyable for players, which could result in players investing more resources into outfitting alts which means more $$ for Cryptic.
Win/Win, yes?
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, if you made it this far I'd like to thank you for wasting your time reading all of this. lol
Edit: Included skollulfr's kit inspired item modification idea into my original post (with appropriate explanations/examples)
I hate cryptic for making it a price ship. it's worth more to me than all the other T6 ships combined.... I tend to agree whit skollulfr here. that would be a property of the weapon frame. the loss of a module slot can be an associated cost. this is however part of the realm of balancing but it's a good idea to look ahead and see how a system like this would impact balance and what can be done to maintain it. the good news there are plenty options to balance the system out.
I am not sure but some player may like the basic frame the advanced fleet weapons offer. it's an easy way to acquire a Ultra Rare Mk XII frame if you can afford it. the elite fleet warpcores would probably be very popular frame due to there unique nature. I am not against giving these a unique mod slot so they can be made part of a set. this is one of the few cases where rethinking the gear would be better. I'd say buy those as they are now. they keep the same stats but have an unfilled unique mod slot added to them for the player to fill. currently these special damage type weapon have one less modifier. I'd say keep it that way the damage type is incorporated into the frame at the cost of a mod slot. you earn them the regular way and then you are free to mod them the way you want. my idea was to have the unique mods like [Aegis] and [Adapted M.A.C.O.] to carry all the properties of the set. this includes Visuals, power bonuses, counting to the set bonus and all other properties associated whit the set. exactly.
only the consoles would be unaffected. they are essentially mod for your ship instead of your gear. I think so yes...
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
Also the [Chance], [Over], and [Pen] unique modules would also be restricted from stacking with fleet modules which would balance the whole system out.
It occurs to me that the Epic quality [Mod]s would need to be fused since they are specific to item types, [Ac/Dm] for weapons, [W->S] for warp cores, and even a few Ultra Rare items have specific [Mod]s that could pose problems.
Ultra Rare specific [Mod]s might have to be unlocked to the randomness that we currently enjoy
I'd suspect that such items would have to have the item frame 'one per ship' with the [Energy Type] module fused, or possibly some kind of 'back-end unique limitation category to be placed on the specific [Energy Type] modules from items like this.. *scratches head*