Yet another poll, this time on the level 50 bomb.

rosetyler51 · August 2015

To me it feels like the game truly starts at level 50. The question is do you think that is right.

kodachikuno · August 2015

Im gonna go the opposite direction... the game dies off about lv50 and the horrid grindy mess begins.

strous1 · August 2015

kodachikuno wrote: »

Im gonna go the opposite direction... the game dies off about lv50 and the horrid grindy mess begins.

I agree 100%

legolegend11 · August 2015

While i agree that the horrible grindy mess begins at lv50, i also think its where the game starts. You get access to the top ships, best weapons, more missions, and reputation systems. The grindy mess starts as a result of the game starting, because at lower levels there is no real need to grind, you get a ships every 10 levels, you get constant missions for xp, etc

sisteric · August 2015

For me, the game starts at character creation. I head cannon the guy what he is going to be. And then as I do the missions, my head cannon narrative expands upon what is presented.
SO the game starts as soon as I am thinking about that character and what I plan to do with them. That is how I determine the playtime, playstyle and content consumption that the specific character will be doing.

kitsunesnout · August 2015

To me it's 60, cause then I can focus on doing just what I WANT and have everything I want available including certain elites. Endgame is always to me startgame. That's why I've generally hated other MMO's that make getting to the top a labor that takes an eternity with only few exceptions where said games have enough gameplay depth in them to make sub-top level gameplay always be interesting and engaging, STO doesn't have that unfortunately. Only when I am at the top level in this game do I feel like I can rest and just enjoy things at my leisure without concerns like restrictions etc.

artan42 · August 2015

Other...

bobbydazlers · August 2015

personally I think levelling up from 0 to 50 was far too fast and I'm not the only one who used to think this as I recall seeing many threads on that very thing.
now levelling from 0-60 is about right only its a pity they didn't make the overall progress even though I can understand that they did it this way to save a lot of re-programming.
given this yes I'm ok with the levelling speed from 50-60, sure it takes a little longer but its not half as bad as some others seem to think.
I levelled my 3 main characters who were all level 50 when they made the change up to level 60 in about 6 weeks, that was just playing all the normal stuff I used to do before, I never went anywhere near the delta quadrant until I got to lv60, sure it's a little longer but not that bad really.

having said that I think the climb from 0 to 50 is still just as important and the missions are still fun to play so I'm kinda on the fence with this one, rather then saying the game starts at lv50 I would rather say its a game of two half's, the first half being levelling to 50 the second half everything that comes after you get to lv50.

karlbarb · August 2015

Honestly, while the true customization and tweaking comes past 50, to say this game *starts* at 50 is exaggerated. The storyline in STO is riveting, and the leveling up process pre-50 is actually quite enjoyable the first time around. You also get a new ship every ten levels, so you can even switch around between ship types to get a feel for it.

warmaker001b · August 2015

The real game... Endgame... Starts at Lv50 and doesn't end with hitting Lv60. At Lv50:

The vast majority of PVE missions are open.
Almost all PVE queues are open. Some have mission prerequisites like Bug Hunt.
Unlocks Elite queues.
Lv50 unlocks eligibility for all ships that you can use.
Mk XII+ equipment eligibility.
Player Traits Slots unlocked. The last one is at Lv60, minus the brand spanking new Research Holding Trait Unlocks.

Lv50 is where you can start getting real serious in ships, builds, equipment. Whereas at lower levels you're using trash equipment and ships, builds you had no intention on keeping. From 50 onwards, you pretty much can use every piece of gear you can find.

foxrockssocks · August 2015

I remember when the game started at level 1. You know there were all these things to do back then, and you'd be doing the same things at the end game that you could at level 1 (or 3 or whatever you were after the Vega stuff, and then whatever level unlocked PVP).

Okay so it wasn't quite level 1, but it was early enough, definitely before 10, when you could do PVP, exploration, DSEs, missions, fleet actions, whatever. That was everything to do and it wasn't great, but there was more variety to it than now, and getting to end game wasn't important because the whole game was the same at the time.

As the game got older, all that stuff was removed, literally or effectively. You really can't play anything besides missions until you get to level 50 now. It is very sad.

I didn't really like leveling my delta recruits for the simple fact that it was all about playing the missions and nothing else. Now it was fast and reasonably fun when compared to the 50+ grind, but they got there on rails. There were no side stories from wandering off into an exploration cluster, getting dragged into a DSE, or heated PVP battles in low tier ships (Tier 3 PVP was always the best in the game due to the pacing, and the limits on powers.)

alcyoneserene · August 2015

Other, I guess... I like the game both pre-L50 and post.

Sometimes I do miss the leveling through missions with scavenged and mission gear on lowly ships with few abilities that you're forced to make the very most out of just to stay in one piece. It's a challenge, an adventure, nice storylines, memorable scenes and scenery. That's part of the reason I liked the Delta Recruit event, making 2 new characters and acquiring the goods on them which are now super-useful on all characters both ground and space.

I'd go as far as suggesting to make survivalist-type or spy type missions where you're given the choice of reusing low-level ships you already own, or new low-level ones, and progressing through a new story arc with your existing characters for the given faction, but with (temporarily) zero resources of any kind that you have to re-acquire playing them, and after finishing you can select the rewards and bonuses to keep from there.

I can envision endless settings where that could be possible: say, a Republican infiltrating the Star Empire starting off at no rank (like in the Romulan episodes), or an Orion that went into a slave trade shipped off to some far away quadrant who uses the power of manipulation and seduction to turn two criminal factions against each other and winning a potential war with KDF without a single shot fired, or a Bajoran being attacked by Pah-wraiths who lost their memory and was physically altered so no one could recognize who they are struggling to remember what they had before. All these could be done by allowing a temporary surgical procedure at the tailor to change species for the appropriate faction storyline. Then these lowly characters could also have their own PVEs that ties into the storyline progressions and help it along using whatever gear and ship acquired there which would run for 1 full week per month for a number of months, and microtransactions like the lower level tier ships, tailor unlocks and costumes, etc.

groomofweird · August 2015

I think it depends on how one plays the game.
For the guys who want to get right to the best gear and wotnot as fast as they can then sure I'd say the game begins at 50. There's also sperhaps something to be said for level 60 and beyond for some people.
For those who enjoy the story and perhaps more role playing aspects of the game I would say level was largely irrelavent compared to immersion.
For some the true game begins when they start outfitting that shiny new T5ship to take the step into things like ISN and wotnot.
For others the game begins the second they get a phaser or tricorder in hand and proudly take out thier T1 vessel on its maiden voyage.
I would say at one time or another I have been in all of those camps.

gradii · August 2015

Maybe. I do prefer playing characters who are already level 50+ and nowadays I try and speed level new alts as much as possible, but the first few times I played through the missions it was a blast, I loved it.

oldravenman3025 · August 2015

Actually (at least in my view), the most fun is at levels one through fifty. Most of the stuff afterwards is just one big grind-o-rama.

kthang · August 2015

Started a new toon a few weeks back and what struck me was new people must feel it insanely frustrating to grind from around lvl 57 and up to finish DQ and get to the Iconian missions.

All the story-missions, up to lvl-50, made sure you reached the next level. If you do all the stories, and then start DQ, somewhere around lvl 56-57 you have to start the grind just to finish DQ. For someone that plays casually this is going to take a long time.

Fun starts at level 1 and falls sharply around 57 and if you stick with it may become fun again once you start the Iconian story.

kyrrok · August 2015

The game practically stalls at 50. Then you have to push that 82 Oldsmobile up the hill the rest of the way until that day finally comes when you hit 60.

Unknown · August 2015

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Unknown · August 2015

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bubblegirl2015 · August 2015

rosetyler51 wrote: »

To me it feels like the game truly starts at level 50. The question is do you think that is right.

Not really..starts when you start to do the tutorial. Why would it start at 50? Probably ends there

kjwashington · August 2015

kodachikuno wrote: »

Im gonna go the opposite direction... the game dies off about lv50 and the horrid grindy mess begins.

This.^^^^^^^

narthais · August 2015

foxrockssocks wrote: »

... or heated PVP battles in low tier ships (Tier 3 PVP was always the best in the game due to the pacing, and the limits on powers.)

And this now has me thinking I should see if my fleet would be interested in regular friendly PvP in T3 ships, there'd still be rep and starship traits and spec points in the mix but with the boff powers limited it might be an interesting little scrimmage still.

tempus64 · August 2015

foxrockssocks wrote: »

You really can't play anything besides missions until you get to level 50 now. It is very sad.

That's not true at all. At level 10/11, DOFFing opens up and I believe you can start doing the low level queues as well. At 18, you get the R&D stuff opened up to play with. And at level 30, you can do deep space encounters and I think you can also start doing foundry missions. There are days where I do all that other stuff as opposed to missions on my low level toons.

foxrockssocks · August 2015

tempus64 wrote: »

foxrockssocks wrote: »

You really can't play anything besides missions until you get to level 50 now. It is very sad.

That's not true at all. At level 10/11, DOFFing opens up and I believe you can start doing the low level queues as well. At 18, you get the R&D stuff opened up to play with. And at level 30, you can do deep space encounters and I think you can also start doing foundry missions. There are days where I do all that other stuff as opposed to missions on my low level toons.

Doffing is a diversion, a minigame, not real content to play. Don't get me wrong, doffing is a great addition to the game, but it isn't really content, and doesn't make for a good experience as far as character narrative. I mean, its always funny to send an exocomp to teach hand to hand combat, but you can do that a few times a week, and on any character.

A more interesting experience happens when say you're leveling via DSEs, an engineer in a Galaxy, fighting off hordes of Jem Hadar and True Way, and it takes tons to finally bring you down, but not before you get the level. So when that ship finally gets destroyed, you write it into your character's personal history.

That was an experience I had with one captain and I figure it left something of an emotional scar, to lose that ship and most of the crew, then get back to ESD and get a promotion and a new ship. Months of counseling time was required. It isn't an experience any of my other characters had.

And my first Fed character has still never done one of the two Cardassian arcs. It just got missed entirely as I did other things and adds uniqueness to the background and experience.

RnD is definitely not content, and personally I already have my crafters, so if I ever made a new character, they would do it simply for the traits and nothing else. It certainly isn't an alternate route for advancement.

Queues, well I'd be surprised if any fired in a reasonable amount of time. I leveled 2 characters on 90% PVP after the game came out, a Fed and a KDF, but low level PVP died early on when they nerfed the XP rewards from it, when it would still level you slower than you can level today. For PVE queues, people get to the top so much faster that playing the queues doesn't really happen to my knowledge. Heck it was hard to get fleet actions to pop back then, but I do remember the little solo missions hidden in SB24 and Klingon Scout force.

DSEs used to be better when they were everywhere. The problem I've had now is that when I chase down a DSE open on one corner of the map, it may still close before I get there, and that is with my level 60s, quantum slipstreams, and sometimes even the Solonae set jump, I can't imagine trying to chase them with a low warp captain, especially if the only open ones are on the other side of the quadrant. These new ones could be good, but they totally miss the point of the original DSEs which you could get into nearly anywhere, anytime.

Foundry I find very hit or miss, in quality and what type of thing I may be looking for, but you're right it is an option.

narthais wrote: »

foxrockssocks wrote: »

... or heated PVP battles in low tier ships (Tier 3 PVP was always the best in the game due to the pacing, and the limits on powers.)

And this now has me thinking I should see if my fleet would be interested in regular friendly PvP in T3 ships, there'd still be rep and starship traits and spec points in the mix but with the boff powers limited it might be an interesting little scrimmage still.

If you really want to do it right, get them to make new characters with no rep powers, epic mk 14 weapons, sets, and all that nonsense. I believe those would taint the experience heavily.

sysil84 · August 2015

For me the game ends at level 50. All the stuff beyond that is repetitive grind and bloated power creep.

kayajay · August 2015

When I first started playing, the Dominion arc was just being released and I remember levelling while just enjoying playing the game...it's not like that anymore. The fun, the heart and the love has long ago disappeared. You're either a DPS TRIBBLE, have to spend you money on Zen or grinding to get a better ship or just playing episodes, which aren't even enjoyably difficult.

sysil84 · August 2015

kayajay wrote: »

When I first started playing, the Dominion arc was just being released and I remember levelling while just enjoying playing the game...it's not like that anymore. The fun, the heart and the love has long ago disappeared. You're either a DPS TRIBBLE, have to spend you money on Zen or grinding to get a better ship or just playing episodes, which aren't even enjoyably difficult.

That's my point. All that you describe really happens after reaching 50. Before that the game is actually more challenging since you got crappy gear and not the best ship and the best episodes are before you reach 50.

azniadeet · August 2015

The amount of grind wouldn't be such an issue if the game's content wasn't so horribly front loaded. For a federation player, there are around 85 full length story missions before the end of the delta content. Therefore, each one should consistently award roughly .425... Let's call it .4 of one level when you first run them.

thatcursedwolf · August 2015

You may feel the game starts at 50 but I feel the fun stops at 50.

Grind grind grind.

kodachikuno · August 2015

given the comments and voting trend... this is one of those I hope the devs actually read

rezking · August 2015

kodachikuno wrote: »

Im gonna go the opposite direction... the game dies off about lv50 and the horrid grindy mess begins.

Yup...

Yet another poll, this time on the level 50 bomb.

Yet another poll, this time on the level 50 bomb. 70 votes

Comments

When I think about everything we've been through together,

maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

and if that journey takes a little longer,

so we can do something we all believe in,

I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.