The conversation on this subject going on over on our sub-reddit has even more details on some of the power changes we've recently been working on. I'll go ahead and copy that information over here, for those that'd rather stick with the Official Forums...
Borg Badness:
All Borg Ships have an ability called "Assimilate Ship" which players will recognize as the big "red borders on the screen" ability that mucks with power recharges and such. This ability was built in such a way that each tick was as expensive as creating an entire copy of your ship, complete with all ~300 powers a player ship possesses.. And each Borg Ship could do this as frequently as once every 6 seconds.
"Assimilate Ship" was recently rebuilt so that it no longer ... screws everything up. The only player-facing difference will be that if you destroy the ship using this on you, the effect will not linger for more than 6 seconds, whereas it used to run its full duration (up to 60sec) even if the caster was killed.
Crystalline Entity:
Y'know how certain abilities can trip that Re-Crystallize Buff off the CE, but only has that effect on this specific Map? That's because we were granting you an additional power effect in order to do that. And we were doing so every 1 sec. And it was being added to all "foes" of the CE on the entire map. And each time it did so, it was again just as expensive as creating an entire copy of your ship, complete with all ~300 powers a player ship possesses. Every second.
After a recent rework, it now only does this once every 5 seconds (1/5th the server load!), and only applies to Players thus reducing the impact by not attempting to add the effect to Torpedoes, Mines, Shuttles, Hangar Pets, etc. It also only refreshes every 5 seconds, instead of removing and re-applying, further reducing the server-side performance hit.
This does mean that Hangar Pets that use Tachyon Beam and such, will no longer strip Re-Crystallize buffs from the CE. We decided the trade-off is worth it.
Attack Pattern Beta:
Again, as in the previous two examples, one aspect of APB was being re-applied to players that used this power on a 1x/sec basis, which - with every tick - was that massively expensive transaction where it had to reload every single one of your powers.
This one was really tricky, and we actually had to create an entirely new type of Power just to facilitate reducing its server impact without altering its player-facing functionality. Suffice it to say, this ability can be used safely without making the servers weep. And, according to the internal testing we've been doing, there is absolutely no difference in the end-result performance of the ability, after the rebuild.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
An honorable attempt at being more transparent is much appreciated. Even more so would be solutions to the problems.
Unfortunately my support tickets get responses none better than automated acknowledgement of the problem which is not acknowledgement at all. And when there is a response that is not automated, it says that the case hase been closed and considered solved without even the intention of solving it. This may be the inappropriate avenue for this, but I have tried ALL appropriate avenues with absolutely no success.
Once again your discussion of the situation and solutions are appreciated.
I think it's important to add that a lot of the changes we're making are based off of the profiling we've done both on internal developer and test servers, and on Holodeck. When we do this profiling, we get a good overview of what operations are running and how much CPU they're taking up.
This lets us see that some things are taking way longer or happening way more often than expected, such as the full reload of powers with Attack Pattern Beta, Assimilate Ship and the Crystalline Entity buff-stripping power. We chose to target things that perform these operations, and find means with which we can change them to not do this, as Borticus said.
The thought in the back our minds while we make these changes, though, is that while these changes will certainly help eliminate these full power reloads, in the end, all it might do is change what our profiling results look like, and it might not have any real impact on the lag and rubberbanding you guys are seeing.
That's still useful information for us if that happens though. If things don't improve, then at the very least we're removing some of the "noise" in our profiling, and it lets us know that we need to focus our efforts on other, less significant data points.
So just be prepared, this might be a longer fight than just one patch or one set of changes. But we're determined to take every necessary step to make a better play experience.
Daniel "FlyingTarg" Razza
Star Trek Online Lead Programmer
Well it comes down to they broke their own game by releasing content again & again that was not properly tested due to deadlines.
Now its in such a mess they dont no how to fix it.
The conversation on this subject going on over on our sub-reddit has even more details on some of the power changes we've recently been working on. I'll go ahead and copy that information over here, for those that'd rather stick with the Official Forums...
Borg Badness:
All Borg Ships have an ability called "Assimilate Ship" which players will recognize as the big "red borders on the screen" ability that mucks with power recharges and such. This ability was built in such a way that each tick was as expensive as creating an entire copy of your ship, complete with all ~300 powers a player ship possesses.. And each Borg Ship could do this as frequently as once every 6 seconds.
"Assimilate Ship" was recently rebuilt so that it no longer ... screws everything up. The only player-facing difference will be that if you destroy the ship using this on you, the effect will not linger for more than 6 seconds, whereas it used to run its full duration (up to 60sec) even if the caster was killed.
Crystalline Entity:
Y'know how certain abilities can trip that Re-Crystallize Buff off the CE, but only has that effect on this specific Map? That's because we were granting you an additional power effect in order to do that. And we were doing so every 1 sec. And it was being added to all "foes" of the CE on the entire map. And each time it did so, it was again just as expensive as creating an entire copy of your ship, complete with all ~300 powers a player ship possesses. Every second.
After a recent rework, it now only does this once every 5 seconds (1/5th the server load!), and only applies to Players thus reducing the impact by not attempting to add the effect to Torpedoes, Mines, Shuttles, Hangar Pets, etc. It also only refreshes every 5 seconds, instead of removing and re-applying, further reducing the server-side performance hit.
This does mean that Hangar Pets that use Tachyon Beam and such, will no longer strip Re-Crystallize buffs from the CE. We decided the trade-off is worth it.
Attack Pattern Beta:
Again, as in the previous two examples, one aspect of APB was being re-applied to players that used this power on a 1x/sec basis, which - with every tick - was that massively expensive transaction where it had to reload every single one of your powers.
This one was really tricky, and we actually had to create an entirely new type of Power just to facilitate reducing its server impact without altering its player-facing functionality. Suffice it to say, this ability can be used safely without making the servers weep. And, according to the internal testing we've been doing, there is absolutely no difference in the end-result performance of the ability, after the rebuild.
So following your examples and picking stuff that affects player and target, I'm assuming stuff like Attack Pattern Delta, the Voth diplomat doff, Energy Siphon, and the DSD deflector, could fall into these expensive powers category? Not sure about Sensory Analysis since it seems like either a self buff or target debuff (the shield drain/heal buff was reported broken).
I'm just wondering what was that +12h downtime we had back 3 weeks ago, supposed to improve lag etc. From what I've read it was hardware trouble but solved nothing at all. It's even worst since and geting worse each weekly patch for a lot of us.
For example since last patch I barely play STO because I get DC +50 times / day, SNR each 10-15sec and increasing as soon as it is US prime time.
It remind me what I've read/heard about Neverwinter launching on Xbox, "be prepare to get massive lag on STO as they probably wont add new hardware but just reduce each game like STO bandwith so Xbox new players will be able to connect"....
looks like this wasnt oax since the result is the same predicted anyway.
Dark Side (KDF)
HOUSE OF BORG
"I am FLATULUS of Borg, Resistance if Futile! Prepare to pull my finger!"
To piggyback on Trendy's statements, I'd like to let everyone know that we're already discussing the option of doing a "Performance Review" Tribble event, once we have a number of our more prominent powers tweaks in place. Basically inviting players to come play a few specific queues, with Devs playing along, to see if we can see any measurable improvements with power performance.
So, keep your eyes open if you'd like to be a part of such an event. We'll make an official announcement, once everything's situated.
As long as you'll provide Tribble Testing Manuals or some such similar item to test certain powers (instead of assuming we have them), I'd be interested in testing like this.
If there are certain specific setups you need, let us know that too, perhaps provide materials for it in a Tester's Box?
So just be prepared, this might be a longer fight than just one patch or one set of changes. But we're determined to take every necessary step to make a better play experience.
While the very lengthy period that this has been going on has been, trying, the lack of communication has been just as frustrating. This is not some nuisance bug that would be nice to have fixed. It's down-right game breaking at times and to have such long periods of silence on such a serious issue, it's left me wondering more than once if you were not talking because for whatever reason, there was no more action being taken/to take. That's not a state you should want to leave customers in.
The information you've given today is great. What you are describing would explain much of what I've been seeing and shows you have a grasp of the issue and there is hope. Thank you for that and please do keep us updated.
I can prepare myself for a bit more of a wait, but keep in mind, this has been dragging on for a long time. Longer than some realize. It's been... irritating.
A major problem I don't see being addressed is the use of Cogentco, the source of all bandwidth backups.
This will require that they spend more money on a reliable service instead of this bargain basement one.
Also I remember something about a company purposefully throttling bandwidth to force another company to comply with their wishes, was Cogentco in there anywhere?
To all Cryptic / PWE personel here: Thats a very appreciated blast from the past open communication. Thanks for not just explaining but keeping up "blogging" about this. And since the STO forums are the first source I check out for STO related stuff as STO player thanks for posting it here.
A major problem I don't see being addressed is the use of Cogentco, the source of all bandwidth backups.
This will require that they spend more money on a reliable service instead of this bargain basement one.
Also I remember something about a company purposefully throttling bandwidth to force another company to comply with their wishes, was Cogentco in there anywhere?
While that may totally be true (noob alert) maybe the reworked powers also reduce the amount of communication being pressed trough the Cogentcos C64s and allow a better gaming? Its not all the time bad lag & rubber banding; its usually just the prime times. Mid week noon is usually great. Or at least was on my last holidays.
I don't play Reddit Online, so i don't read Reddit Posts. Devs answering in an unofficial STO forum is an unofficial answer
Unfortunately, this is how I feel--whether it's STO or Duolingo where devs answer things on Reddit instead of on their official site. Unless it's on the official site, it isn't official.
What is also sad and annoying is that someone in that reddit blames us, the forumgoers, for being the reason that we don't receive official updates. While I sometimes call the business decisions like they are, I hope I demonstrate that it is perfectly possible to do so without a bunch of personal invective.
I don't believe that there are only the people who read these forums, and those who only go to reddit. How else would he know about the trolls here in the first place? Trolls are everywhere, that's a fact, and excluding reddit from it is...foolish, obviously (just gave you an example ) .
I think it's important to add that a lot of the changes we're making are based off of the profiling we've done both on internal developer and test servers, and on Holodeck. When we do this profiling, we get a good overview of what operations are running and how much CPU they're taking up.
This lets us see that some things are taking way longer or happening way more often than expected, such as the full reload of powers with Attack Pattern Beta, Assimilate Ship and the Crystalline Entity buff-stripping power. We chose to target things that perform these operations, and find means with which we can change them to not do this, as Borticus said.
The thought in the back our minds while we make these changes, though, is that while these changes will certainly help eliminate these full power reloads, in the end, all it might do is change what our profiling results look like, and it might not have any real impact on the lag and rubberbanding you guys are seeing.
That's still useful information for us if that happens though. If things don't improve, then at the very least we're removing some of the "noise" in our profiling, and it lets us know that we need to focus our efforts on other, less significant data points.
So just be prepared, this might be a longer fight than just one patch or one set of changes. But we're determined to take every necessary step to make a better play experience.
Speaking about a better play experience, I wonder - would it be possible to remove visual/sfx effects of traits, set bonuses, you name it (individually or alltogether, just like it is possible with the set parts (space & ground) / borg console)
and
is it (could it be) possible that said effects are also responsible for some lag and/or fps drops, especially at high load areas like the battlezones (~20 players)?
Anyway, thanks for all the informations from you, trendy & bort. It sure helps putting things into a better perspective for most of the playerbase.
can we get an official timetable/estimate of when the lag will be gone?
This is something that annoys me a lot in my job, people asking when something will be fixed, I feel like yelling "I'm not <expletive> psychic" at them.
It's almost impossible to put a time on it, they've said they have some ideas and they are trying them, if it works then fine it works all fixed, if it doesn't work then they have to start over and look at something else.
Fixing old code in games like this doesn't come with a time line, it could take and hour it could take years there's no real way to tell because it's all about trial and error.
The best they can offer is something along the lines of "we have a patch that we're working on that may work, we'll patch it in next week and see how it goes".
Can I just pause the thread here and say thanks to Mattjohnsonva for raising this thread, as its generated just the feedback we were desperate for from developers.
I'm under no illusions that there is a quick fix to this. Its a complex animal (putting it mildly!) and I understand the processes involved in diagnostics.
Borticus, Flyingtarg and Trendy. Thank you. I appreciate greatly the time taken to step out of your routines and reply to the thread. And to reply with such excellent detail. Faith restored
Please continue to post on the forum. Personally its the place I go to and I know many other do to.
EDIT: Oh and Trendy...you not allowed to leave PWE ... ever Joking aside I think you are the best community admin we've had.
Agreed. Thank you for making this thread and thank you Cryptic for the detailed response.
I once again have hope for the future. A fix to the lag, misfires, crashes and other performance issues would breathe new life into the game.
Thank you.
First of all, thank you very much for responding here DVS.
For some reason I have not figured out yet power related lag on space pve maps has gotten much better over the duration of the last 1-2 weeks at my end. Problems like misfire for example are reduced from felt 40% down to 10%. Now I have now idea why but knowing that you guys are at the problem makes me feel better about the game and restores confidence in it a bit.
Thanks for your work.
- Connor
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
So a couple of the big bad wolfs were "assimilate ship", crystallizing of the CE and Attack Pattern Beta. These items have been around for quite some time.
Is the cause the powers themselves or is it merely the interaction between them and other powers.
Just trying to wrap my head around the fact that these oldtimers are specifically mentioned as causes for lag.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
So a couple of the big bad wolfs were "assimilate ship", crystallizing of the CE and Attack Pattern Beta. These items have been around for quite some time.
Is the cause the powers themselves or is it merely the interaction between them and other powers.
Just trying to wrap my head around the fact that these oldtimers are specifically mentioned as causes for lag.
It's very likely they have always been like that but in the past when there were less flashy and overall less abilities flying about it didn't really notice a lot, but now with everything going nova on your screen those specific resource hogs are pushing it over the limit.
So a couple of the big bad wolfs were "assimilate ship", crystallizing of the CE and Attack Pattern Beta. These items have been around for quite some time.
Is the cause the powers themselves or is it merely the interaction between them and other powers.
Just trying to wrap my head around the fact that these oldtimers are specifically mentioned as causes for lag.
It's very likely they have always been like that but in the past when there were less flashy and overall less abilities flying about it didn't really notice a lot, but now with everything going nova on your screen those specific resource hogs are pushing it over the limit.
Honestly, I think it's that, too. It wasn't like that prior to Delta Rising and I don't think there were problems when DR first hit concerning the Intelligence powers (Those first few months are just a blur to me, so I'm not sure!). But, it sounds like the Intelligence + Command powers were what finally pushed it over the edge and what caused the system to start crapping its pants.
To piggyback on Trendy's statements, I'd like to let everyone know that we're already discussing the option of doing a "Performance Review" Tribble event, once we have a number of our more prominent powers tweaks in place. Basically inviting players to come play a few specific queues, with Devs playing along, to see if we can see any measurable improvements with power performance.
So, keep your eyes open if you'd like to be a part of such an event. We'll make an official announcement, once everything's situated.
Thanks Trendy and Borticus for the updates. That was the type of info I was looking for. I feel much more confident that "things" are being done. I will be more than happy to help with the performance review. Let us know what we need to do and when and I am sure you get as much assistance as you can use, if not more!
Thank you, this will be greatly appreciated as you no doubt gather having read this thread.
May I persist and suggest that we receive regular updates, I personally would suggest fortnightly. Don't be afraid to put on the updates that you tried X and Y and it didn't work, at least it's something to cross off the list. Then instead of self entitled players like me shouting and generally making a fuss, I'll be right behind you guys as we discuss this at fleet level and on the forum, your company's forum.
Without giving you a flat out yes, my full intention is to try and be more transparent. I'm making more regular trips to Cryptic now (I work at PWE) in order to get a better understanding so that I can communicate with ya'll. I don't want to say a regular X amount of days, but my full intention is to keep you informed as I learn more. Always.
How about a very small change to begin with this new found transparency and start to add all player given (important) bug reports that you guys are actually working on and recognize as a general problem for a lot of players by adding those bugs to the "known issues" list in the weekly server update logs.
That does not cost you guys lots of extra work or anything but it shows on a weekly basis that this issue is being recognized and prioritized as being a serious issue that is worked on by you guys continuously.
We dont expect you to fix everything today, just give your best, keep giving your best and maybe - as the list of bugs seems to grow constantly - recognize that as a general problem in your work flow and get more ressources towards this part of code-maintenance.
If all goes according to plan, we should have a new build on Tribble either later today, or tomorrow, which contains a good number of the higher-profile changes we've made in an attempt to address some of the more egregious performance issues. So keep an eye out for new Tribble Patch Notes to arrive, and please play on Tribble over the weekend (presuming there are no catastrophes, and the patch gets applied as planned).
Early next week - probably either Monday or Tuesday - we'll be doing a "Play With The Devs" event at some point, to focus test some of the top offending queue maps, with as much traffic as we can get on Tribble. This event will likely be announced on our Twitter feeds, so it may be best to follow one or all of the following, to keep informed on that front:
Quick update:
Early next week - probably either Monday or Tuesday - we'll be doing a "Play With The Devs" event at some point, to focus test some of the top offending queue maps, with as much traffic as we can get on Tribble. This event will likely be announced on our Twitter feeds, so it may be best to follow one or all of the following, to keep informed on that front:
So does this mean Tribble will be unlocked to everyone, instead of just Gold members?
If all goes according to plan, we should have a new build on Tribble either later today, or tomorrow, which contains a good number of the higher-profile changes we've made in an attempt to address some of the more egregious performance issues. So keep an eye out for new Tribble Patch Notes to arrive, and please play on Tribble over the weekend (presuming there are no catastrophes, and the patch gets applied as planned).
Early next week - probably either Monday or Tuesday - we'll be doing a "Play With The Devs" event at some point, to focus test some of the top offending queue maps, with as much traffic as we can get on Tribble. This event will likely be announced on our Twitter feeds, so it may be best to follow one or all of the following, to keep informed on that front:
But what if that same thing interacts with thousands of people on Holodeck? What if it's exponentially heavier on the server rather than simply additive? What if that power interacts with other powers creating an exponential recursive effect?
I am curious as to whether PWE/Cryptic consider this to be nothing more than one of the many complexities of programming, or if it's considered an indication that whoever wrote those functions did a very poor job.
This meant a lot of retooling of previously expensive computational designs.
I am curious as to whether this is being looked at as some refactoring and optimization of reasonable code that needed a bit of streamlining, or as the wholesale replacement of code that didn't break the build but should never have been checked in.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I know that what's said internally is sometimes a bit... metamorphosed before being passed along to the public, and I'm just trying to get a better idea of how Cryptic/PWE are looking at this.
I am curious as to whether PWE/Cryptic consider this to be nothing more than one of the many complexities of programming, or if it's considered an indication that whoever wrote those functions did a very poor job.
The code was more likely "well" written at the time but it's impossible to anticipate everything you may want it to do a year or 2, hell even 6 months, down the road. At this point I would think the devs have a lot more experience and knowledge about what these particular systems need to do now and down the road which would require a complete rewrite. Many companies in these situations will implement a policy of rewriting some systems every year or so, something cryptic will need to adopt.
My impression of what Borticus said they've done, is what I would just call a "patch" to make it perform better but not a real fix as I have a feeling a true fix would require a rewrite.
A real fix would mean some algorithmic changes to how stuff like this a done - instead of just decreasing the frequency of the expensive things they should find ways to do the same stuff more efficiently in the first place.
All this talk about completely refreshing a players stats when stuff triggers is just sad. Its like "we cant do it correctly as that would actually take time to implement so we're going to thin skill updates out and hope thats enough.
If all goes according to plan, we should have a new build on Tribble either later today, or tomorrow, which contains a good number of the higher-profile changes we've made in an attempt to address some of the more egregious performance issues. So keep an eye out for new Tribble Patch Notes to arrive, and please play on Tribble over the weekend (presuming there are no catastrophes, and the patch gets applied as planned).
Early next week - probably either Monday or Tuesday - we'll be doing a "Play With The Devs" event at some point, to focus test some of the top offending queue maps, with as much traffic as we can get on Tribble. This event will likely be announced on our Twitter feeds, so it may be best to follow one or all of the following, to keep informed on that front:
Comments
Borg Badness:
All Borg Ships have an ability called "Assimilate Ship" which players will recognize as the big "red borders on the screen" ability that mucks with power recharges and such. This ability was built in such a way that each tick was as expensive as creating an entire copy of your ship, complete with all ~300 powers a player ship possesses.. And each Borg Ship could do this as frequently as once every 6 seconds.
"Assimilate Ship" was recently rebuilt so that it no longer ... screws everything up. The only player-facing difference will be that if you destroy the ship using this on you, the effect will not linger for more than 6 seconds, whereas it used to run its full duration (up to 60sec) even if the caster was killed.
Crystalline Entity:
Y'know how certain abilities can trip that Re-Crystallize Buff off the CE, but only has that effect on this specific Map? That's because we were granting you an additional power effect in order to do that. And we were doing so every 1 sec. And it was being added to all "foes" of the CE on the entire map. And each time it did so, it was again just as expensive as creating an entire copy of your ship, complete with all ~300 powers a player ship possesses. Every second.
After a recent rework, it now only does this once every 5 seconds (1/5th the server load!), and only applies to Players thus reducing the impact by not attempting to add the effect to Torpedoes, Mines, Shuttles, Hangar Pets, etc. It also only refreshes every 5 seconds, instead of removing and re-applying, further reducing the server-side performance hit.
This does mean that Hangar Pets that use Tachyon Beam and such, will no longer strip Re-Crystallize buffs from the CE. We decided the trade-off is worth it.
Attack Pattern Beta:
Again, as in the previous two examples, one aspect of APB was being re-applied to players that used this power on a 1x/sec basis, which - with every tick - was that massively expensive transaction where it had to reload every single one of your powers.
This one was really tricky, and we actually had to create an entirely new type of Power just to facilitate reducing its server impact without altering its player-facing functionality. Suffice it to say, this ability can be used safely without making the servers weep. And, according to the internal testing we've been doing, there is absolutely no difference in the end-result performance of the ability, after the rebuild.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Unfortunately my support tickets get responses none better than automated acknowledgement of the problem which is not acknowledgement at all. And when there is a response that is not automated, it says that the case hase been closed and considered solved without even the intention of solving it. This may be the inappropriate avenue for this, but I have tried ALL appropriate avenues with absolutely no success.
Once again your discussion of the situation and solutions are appreciated.
This lets us see that some things are taking way longer or happening way more often than expected, such as the full reload of powers with Attack Pattern Beta, Assimilate Ship and the Crystalline Entity buff-stripping power. We chose to target things that perform these operations, and find means with which we can change them to not do this, as Borticus said.
The thought in the back our minds while we make these changes, though, is that while these changes will certainly help eliminate these full power reloads, in the end, all it might do is change what our profiling results look like, and it might not have any real impact on the lag and rubberbanding you guys are seeing.
That's still useful information for us if that happens though. If things don't improve, then at the very least we're removing some of the "noise" in our profiling, and it lets us know that we need to focus our efforts on other, less significant data points.
So just be prepared, this might be a longer fight than just one patch or one set of changes. But we're determined to take every necessary step to make a better play experience.
Star Trek Online Lead Programmer
Now its in such a mess they dont no how to fix it.
6 months & counting.
So following your examples and picking stuff that affects player and target, I'm assuming stuff like Attack Pattern Delta, the Voth diplomat doff, Energy Siphon, and the DSD deflector, could fall into these expensive powers category? Not sure about Sensory Analysis since it seems like either a self buff or target debuff (the shield drain/heal buff was reported broken).
For example since last patch I barely play STO because I get DC +50 times / day, SNR each 10-15sec and increasing as soon as it is US prime time.
It remind me what I've read/heard about Neverwinter launching on Xbox, "be prepare to get massive lag on STO as they probably wont add new hardware but just reduce each game like STO bandwith so Xbox new players will be able to connect"....
looks like this wasnt oax since the result is the same predicted anyway.
As long as you'll provide Tribble Testing Manuals or some such similar item to test certain powers (instead of assuming we have them), I'd be interested in testing like this.
If there are certain specific setups you need, let us know that too, perhaps provide materials for it in a Tester's Box?
Maybe the Arcgames STO page should link to Reddit?
While the very lengthy period that this has been going on has been, trying, the lack of communication has been just as frustrating. This is not some nuisance bug that would be nice to have fixed. It's down-right game breaking at times and to have such long periods of silence on such a serious issue, it's left me wondering more than once if you were not talking because for whatever reason, there was no more action being taken/to take. That's not a state you should want to leave customers in.
The information you've given today is great. What you are describing would explain much of what I've been seeing and shows you have a grasp of the issue and there is hope. Thank you for that and please do keep us updated.
I can prepare myself for a bit more of a wait, but keep in mind, this has been dragging on for a long time. Longer than some realize. It's been... irritating.
This will require that they spend more money on a reliable service instead of this bargain basement one.
Also I remember something about a company purposefully throttling bandwidth to force another company to comply with their wishes, was Cogentco in there anywhere?
While that may totally be true (noob alert) maybe the reworked powers also reduce the amount of communication being pressed trough the Cogentcos C64s and allow a better gaming? Its not all the time bad lag & rubber banding; its usually just the prime times. Mid week noon is usually great. Or at least was on my last holidays.
I don't believe that there are only the people who read these forums, and those who only go to reddit. How else would he know about the trolls here in the first place? Trolls are everywhere, that's a fact, and excluding reddit from it is...foolish, obviously (just gave you an example
Speaking about a better play experience, I wonder - would it be possible to remove visual/sfx effects of traits, set bonuses, you name it (individually or alltogether, just like it is possible with the set parts (space & ground) / borg console)
and
is it (could it be) possible that said effects are also responsible for some lag and/or fps drops, especially at high load areas like the battlezones (~20 players)?
Anyway, thanks for all the informations from you, trendy & bort. It sure helps putting things into a better perspective for most of the playerbase.
This is something that annoys me a lot in my job, people asking when something will be fixed, I feel like yelling "I'm not <expletive> psychic" at them.
It's almost impossible to put a time on it, they've said they have some ideas and they are trying them, if it works then fine it works all fixed, if it doesn't work then they have to start over and look at something else.
Fixing old code in games like this doesn't come with a time line, it could take and hour it could take years there's no real way to tell because it's all about trial and error.
The best they can offer is something along the lines of "we have a patch that we're working on that may work, we'll patch it in next week and see how it goes".
I'm under no illusions that there is a quick fix to this. Its a complex animal (putting it mildly!) and I understand the processes involved in diagnostics.
Borticus, Flyingtarg and Trendy. Thank you. I appreciate greatly the time taken to step out of your routines and reply to the thread. And to reply with such excellent detail. Faith restored
Please continue to post on the forum. Personally its the place I go to and I know many other do to.
EDIT: Oh and Trendy...you not allowed to leave PWE ... ever
I once again have hope for the future. A fix to the lag, misfires, crashes and other performance issues would breathe new life into the game.
Thank you.
For some reason I have not figured out yet power related lag on space pve maps has gotten much better over the duration of the last 1-2 weeks at my end. Problems like misfire for example are reduced from felt 40% down to 10%. Now I have now idea why but knowing that you guys are at the problem makes me feel better about the game and restores confidence in it a bit.
Thanks for your work.
- Connor
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Is the cause the powers themselves or is it merely the interaction between them and other powers.
Just trying to wrap my head around the fact that these oldtimers are specifically mentioned as causes for lag.
It's very likely they have always been like that but in the past when there were less flashy and overall less abilities flying about it didn't really notice a lot, but now with everything going nova on your screen those specific resource hogs are pushing it over the limit.
Honestly, I think it's that, too. It wasn't like that prior to Delta Rising and I don't think there were problems when DR first hit concerning the Intelligence powers (Those first few months are just a blur to me, so I'm not sure!). But, it sounds like the Intelligence + Command powers were what finally pushed it over the edge and what caused the system to start crapping its pants.
Thanks Trendy and Borticus for the updates. That was the type of info I was looking for. I feel much more confident that "things" are being done. I will be more than happy to help with the performance review. Let us know what we need to do and when and I am sure you get as much assistance as you can use, if not more!
How about a very small change to begin with this new found transparency and start to add all player given (important) bug reports that you guys are actually working on and recognize as a general problem for a lot of players by adding those bugs to the "known issues" list in the weekly server update logs.
That does not cost you guys lots of extra work or anything but it shows on a weekly basis that this issue is being recognized and prioritized as being a serious issue that is worked on by you guys continuously.
We dont expect you to fix everything today, just give your best, keep giving your best and maybe - as the list of bugs seems to grow constantly - recognize that as a general problem in your work flow and get more ressources towards this part of code-maintenance.
Thx in advance
If all goes according to plan, we should have a new build on Tribble either later today, or tomorrow, which contains a good number of the higher-profile changes we've made in an attempt to address some of the more egregious performance issues. So keep an eye out for new Tribble Patch Notes to arrive, and please play on Tribble over the weekend (presuming there are no catastrophes, and the patch gets applied as planned).
Early next week - probably either Monday or Tuesday - we'll be doing a "Play With The Devs" event at some point, to focus test some of the top offending queue maps, with as much traffic as we can get on Tribble. This event will likely be announced on our Twitter feeds, so it may be best to follow one or all of the following, to keep informed on that front:
LaughingTrendy = https://twitter.com/LaughingTrendy
Borticus = https://twitter.com/BorticusCryptic
ZeroniusRez = https://twitter.com/zeroniusrex
Farktoid = https://twitter.com/CrypticEQAH
There are many other Devs on Twitter, if you wanna keep in touch. These are just the few of us likely to be announcing this particular event.
Hope to see you on Tribble!
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
So does this mean Tribble will be unlocked to everyone, instead of just Gold members?
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Yep it's been open since DR launched. I'm silver and I go there all the time to test things.
Perhaps it might be an idea to announce it via the in game announcements system, to get the attention of a much bigger group of people.
I am curious as to whether PWE/Cryptic consider this to be nothing more than one of the many complexities of programming, or if it's considered an indication that whoever wrote those functions did a very poor job.
I am curious as to whether this is being looked at as some refactoring and optimization of reasonable code that needed a bit of streamlining, or as the wholesale replacement of code that didn't break the build but should never have been checked in.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I know that what's said internally is sometimes a bit... metamorphosed before being passed along to the public, and I'm just trying to get a better idea of how Cryptic/PWE are looking at this.
My impression of what Borticus said they've done, is what I would just call a "patch" to make it perform better but not a real fix as I have a feeling a true fix would require a rewrite.
A real fix would mean some algorithmic changes to how stuff like this a done - instead of just decreasing the frequency of the expensive things they should find ways to do the same stuff more efficiently in the first place.
All this talk about completely refreshing a players stats when stuff triggers is just sad. Its like "we cant do it correctly as that would actually take time to implement so we're going to thin skill updates out and hope thats enough.
This is a good idea, but it needs to be done in advance so that as many as possible can patch tribble so its up to date.