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Time for a season dedicated to a ground combat overhaul

I have to say I prefer space missions, but the reason why is because ground combat handles so terribly for a modern MMO. After playing something like GW2 or SWtoR, STO ground combat is like taking a step 10 years backwards. The walk, run and sprint animation is awful, just isn't fluid enough. If you hit the corner of an object you become stuck. Rolls sometimes work but often don't. The targeting mechanics could be much better and need an overhaul. The objectives for the older stfs need to be streamline and more PUG friendly. I'm sure people can add much more to this. Some of the level designs allow for the poor mechanics (like open world, colony invasion etc.), but most are a clunky experience.

The whole ground combat system is well over due for a total rework. For that amount of work I'm guessing you would need to dedicate a season of work to it. It is possible that there are game engine limitations, but surely it can do better than what we have now.

Comments

  • hunteralpha84hunteralpha84 Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    They already did. Season 2. It was called crossfire if I remember right.

    Have to admit I would like better ground combat. But I think a lot of it is down to engine limitations. And if they were going to update the engine theyd do space as well and it would be a massive undertaking.

    I just don't see it happening.
  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    I just don't see it happening.

    Yeah pretty much this. ^

  • nyniknynik Member Posts: 1,626 Arc User
    I'd be more in favour of a ground content overhaul than purely fixing the combat orientated mechanics and animations.

    In my opinion, ground combat is fairly consistent with Cryptic's other games, which means I don't anticipate that it could be changed. What makes ground combat more or less interesting to me is the reason to use abilities - so environmental factors and map geometry as they can be used to counter the combatants. Encounter design can always be worked on, but there are limitations to what the devs can reasonably do without someone higher up sanctioning an AI code re-write.

    I would rather see us expand towards non-combat mechanics, such as map investigation and puzzle solving using our tricorders. Think minigames mixed with batman arkham series detective mode/star trek 2013 game.

    I'd be surprised if they are not already thinking about how they can implement a better Genesis 2.0 exploration system (for game longevity). Look at what the competition are publicizing (infinite solar system exploration and actual "dynamic" planets). That'll fall short too, but they not before money is spent elsewhere. Perfect time to consider a ground overhaul in conjunction with an exploration expan. in my opinion.
  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    I find ground combat to be much more enjoyable than space combat, it's more balanced for all three classes, and offers more to look at than space anytime. Space is what really needs an overhaul if anything needs one. I have appreciated the greater focus of ground in the story lines, it's simply better than space in every way these days. Space is just a pure mess now.

    Really, the only major wish I have for ground now is for universal kits to come out that allow cross-career module use. My healer sci main would love sneaking around with stealth module! I don't know, I'm just hard pressed to imagine many ways ground could be enhanced except maybe increasing weapon ranges some and of course loosening the tailor restrictions, especially for boffs. That's another thing about ground, having awesome outfits for our characters!
  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    Haha. Mini games. Yes. That's we need, more. pointless wastes of time.

    Just leave it as it is. At least it isn't broken.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I haven't played any other MMO's, so I may simply not know what I'm missing with regards to the animation and graphics related things. Therefore I don't really care much about these things. Ground combat is still much more interesting than space combat to me, due to it being more dynamic and both enemies and players being more agile, more interesting use of the environment, often a greater need for teamwork and generally better design of missions (some of the older borg missions for example, at least require some teamwork. It's impossible to do it all by yourself and that's generally a good thing).

    I don't think a complete overhaul is necessary, then again I may simply be missing some things.

    Making the missions more PUG-friendly isn't necessary IMO, although some objectives may need to be looked at. For example: Infected ground. The first group that tries to assimilate the player is located around a corner, which means that people who are new to it don't get a chance to see "hey, I just came too close and now that crewman's safety is in jeopardy". By the time they see the red text in their mission objectives screen, they won't have had a chance to see what's going on. Relocating this group so that they're immediately in the line of sight will give people an opportunity to learn. Same thing for example with Bug hunt. Place some markers (on normal) where the alarm bugs will spawn for example, so people learn to look for them. Generally, I think normal missions should give people a chance to learn something, the current design of ground (but also space) missions may be a bit flawed in that respect.

    What I would like to see, is more search-and-disable missions like Federation Starbase Incursion. I really like that mission, the searching for enemies, patrolling. More missions like these, with more random maps and such would be a great addition to ground combat in my opinion.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    We already did this.

    Season 4.

    It was supposed to be "The Great Revival" of Ground Combat, with Shooter Mode being the new hawtness.

    For a short while (like, two weeks), it was. Ground combat wasn't so bad - until people realized that it was increasingly difficult to use the various buffs and abilities while in Shooter Mode, and Tacs with Shotguns could just run around one shotting everything and Engies formed impenetrable castles.
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    Seriously guys, how can you think ground combat is okay as it is. It is a horrible experience. I'm guessing people like 1990's animation and mechanics, or haven't played any other vaguely modern MMO?
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    I'll quote a guy from a couple of weeks ago that made this quip. Can't remember his name.

    "Sorry guys. Cryptic doesn't make "ground ships." They don't make any money on it, so they don't want you playing it."

    Selling ships is one of the two cash cows in the game. That and lock boxes which have what again? That's right, ships. The profitability of this game is based entirely on ships. Now, of course, the devs do give us new ground adventure zones every once in a while but I seriously doubt that they will focus an entire season on ground combat. It would be nice though.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • genemorphgenemorph Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    I'll quote a guy from a couple of weeks ago that made this quip. Can't remember his name.

    "Sorry guys. Cryptic doesn't make "ground ships." They don't make any money on it, so they don't want you playing it."

    Selling ships is one of the two cash cows in the game. That and lock boxes which have what again? That's right, ships. The profitability of this game is based entirely on ships. Now, of course, the devs do give us new ground adventure zones every once in a while but I seriously doubt that they will focus an entire season on ground combat. It would be nice though.

    This is true. But if they made ground combat a good experience they could branch out the C-Store there too. I mean there are only so many different iterations of ships with different seating arrangements and weapon layouts you can make. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a recipe for disaster. T7 and T8 ships incoming.
  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    I'll quote a guy from a couple of weeks ago that made this quip. Can't remember his name.

    "Sorry guys. Cryptic doesn't make "ground ships." They don't make any money on it, so they don't want you playing it."

    Selling ships is one of the two cash cows in the game. That and lock boxes which have what again? That's right, ships. The profitability of this game is based entirely on ships. Now, of course, the devs do give us new ground adventure zones every once in a while but I seriously doubt that they will focus an entire season on ground combat. It would be nice though.

    This is true. But if they made ground combat a good experience they could branch out the C-Store there too. I mean there are only so many different iterations of ships with different seating arrangements and weapon layouts you can make. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a recipe for disaster. T7 and T8 ships incoming.

    Indeed, there is a lot of shniies they could create for ground lovers if they put their mind into it. I suppose I should take back some of what I've said earlier, just because I was a little tired at the time of the posting, but there is in fact a lot they could do, like a revamped combat pet system, pet interaction, actual uses for pets, like retrieving loot as a training sold which can be applied to pets, Tricorder types, ground devices, sell extra ground device slots (One of which can be a combat pet module for all classes that functions like a hangar). I'm sure I could think of more now as I ponder it, but they could if they really wanted to. Ships get old after a while, we do need ground love! But that doesn't excuse the broken state of space though.
  • picard51picard51 Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    Well why not revamp it with an eye toward profitiability? They could quite literally sell ground ships. They're more typically called Tanks or APCs but the idea stays the same. Have a warzone on bajor where we're fighting the Iconians for comtrol of the nearest world to the wormhole, aka where the prophets are who can probably wipe the floor with the Iconian if they take the story that way, or also known as the place the dominion can come from to save us all or try to kick us while we're down. The location and the reasoning is irrelevant. If they made it look prettier, with better animations, and made he content more like fighting in an actual warzone they could market that.
    Think about it, we're fighting in the trenches against our enemy and we have to go over the top. How do you keep from getting killed immediately? Hop in your own personal armored vehicle, courtesy of your local C-store outlet. It's an obvious money grab but I think it'd be fun to play.
  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    And another.. lol.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    I dont want Ground combat to become broken. For the moment, its antique, but if you can live with that its very enjoyable and you can easily learn it.

    If they would lay there hand on it, it would become near-unplayable and undesireable to play.
    I'll quote a guy from a couple of weeks ago that made this quip. Can't remember his name.

    "Sorry guys. Cryptic doesn't make "ground ships." They don't make any money on it, so they don't want you playing it."

    Selling ships is one of the two cash cows in the game. That and lock boxes which have what again? That's right, ships. The profitability of this game is based entirely on ships. Now, of course, the devs do give us new ground adventure zones every once in a while but I seriously doubt that they will focus an entire season on ground combat. It would be nice though.

    Its a star trek game. Players dont join for ground combat. They want to play captain and shoot the enemies with their shipweapons. And ground adventure zones are only heavily populated when players need them for a reputation, else they are more or less vacant.​​
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    Seriously guys, how can you think ground combat is okay as it is. It is a horrible experience. I'm guessing people like 1990's animation and mechanics, or haven't played any other vaguely modern MMO?

    I like the current mechanic because it's simple and follows the basic MMO style. But I agree the animations could be much better. I'm fine with other improvements as long as we're not talking turning ground combat into a first-person shooter.​​
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  • sysil84sysil84 Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    genemorph wrote: »
    Seriously guys, how can you think ground combat is okay as it is. It is a horrible experience. I'm guessing people like 1990's animation and mechanics, or haven't played any other vaguely modern MMO?

    If I wanted good ground combat, I would playing other games. STO should be about space, and space has enough problems as it is that I'd prefer the devs concentrate there.
  • reynoldsxdreynoldsxd Member Posts: 977 Arc User
    one of my friends always say that they should have copied mass effect 2/3 in terms of how ground combat plays out.

    I agree. cover in startrek is pretty dang important. But i had to tell him that the engine would not be able to do any of that. ^^
  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    I'll quote a guy from a couple of weeks ago that made this quip. Can't remember his name.

    "Sorry guys. Cryptic doesn't make "ground ships." They don't make any money on it, so they don't want you playing it."

    Selling ships is one of the two cash cows in the game. That and lock boxes which have what again? That's right, ships. The profitability of this game is based entirely on ships. Now, of course, the devs do give us new ground adventure zones every once in a while but I seriously doubt that they will focus an entire season on ground combat. It would be nice though.

    I don't think they "Don't want you to play ground", because ground combat is one of the few places to earn Salvaged Tech...maybe the most sought after R&D material.

    Maybe the numbers aren't that high for ground combat, therefore they concentrate on space.

    I like both quite a lot tbh.




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