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is dps biggest mistake ???

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  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    This community's public persecution of DPS focused players is just as bad, if not worse, than the negative attitudes expressed toward inexperienced players.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Voicing dislike of the elitism of some of the not so nice DPS players =/= Persecuting DPS players.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User
    I'm sure the more reasonable people here can agree that in either direction it goes, the hate and flaming is out of control and unacceptable
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    kyrrok wrote: »
    I'm sure the more reasonable people here can agree that in either direction it goes, the hate and flaming is out of control and unacceptable

    True. Whether it's directed towards the DPS or PVP communities, or to undergeared and new, learning players, all of the hate is unacceptable. And to think we are playing a game where humanity should be more enlightened than that.
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2015
    Dont hate the players, hate the game. Cryptic understands only to well that power creep sells and sells well. It was the power creep that took us to where we are now, and correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it one the Dev's that stated they didn't know the DPS numbers that the likes of Ryan, Sarcasm detector and co generated were possible to begin with.

    Now don't misunderstand me, I was part of the group that called for tougher STF missions. Because there should be no way that a team of two could complete the likes of khitomer ground replete with optional objective, or have full team of 5 tear through Infected ground in under 7 minutes, again with all the optionals at the former elite levels. But artificially inflating HP of space mobs (and I mention space) because it's the most frequented content in both public and private queues, was the easy way out for cryptic.

    You've only got to look at the recently removed auto fail conditions from the advanced queues, the changes to Tachyon beams, and all the people that were crying because they we're getting stomped on by the borg, all because they refused to look at was happening on screen and time buff's ect. to reflect that. Like people have repeatedly said, gear is only part of the equation, the others are knowing how to fly a ship, and what abilities work well together also how and when to use them.

    Yes the lag does get out of control at times, but has it ever occurred to you and I'm addressing the OP here, that maybe the problem lies not only with the infrastructure between the players PC and Cryptics servers? but the fact that they might actually be pushing the limitations of what the game engine was designed to cope with?
    kyrrok wrote: »
    I'm sure the more reasonable people here can agree that in either direction it goes, the hate and flaming is out of control and unacceptable

    As for what Kyrrok has said, yes it is out of control and very unacceptable, and it's little wonder that very few of the dev's frequent the forums anymore. Maybe, just maybe if forum users were a little less volatile then we'd get more information, help and feedback on topics being discussed?

    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    DPS a mistake? No, because I find many players, who cannot grasp anything besides pew pew pew so, dps is the ultimate answer to this issue.

    It's just now, many cannot accomplish enough dps or don't care, to match their pew pew pew mentality!
    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • azniadeetazniadeet Member Posts: 1,871 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    Voicing dislike of the elitism of some of the not so nice DPS players =/= Persecuting DPS players.

    No, but then voicing displeasure with inexperienced players who carelessly jeopardize the mission success of others is not either.

    Of course, pushed down the spectrum, both can cross the line.
  • paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    in one year with this powercreep there will be no one to cater,m8 jelous of what??,i can do dps like any player who have insight in game mechanics,but chasing numbers is boring,childish and really stupid.And is not star trek.

    No need to chase numbers. If you want harder stuff go try increase difficulty level and stay away from ISA. Chasing numbers is optional. It is no different from one staying at ESD.
    game is a joke,if you like blowing stuff up you can do this in any other game.game with star trek name needs exploaration,pvp,smarter A.I.

    I am from harder AI. However, like all those who asked for harder AI in these forums. Have you even bothered to actually complete the hardest elite STFS?

    Because if one cannot finish those, what makes one think one can finish a harder AI.

    If you want to help with harder AI, instead doing anti-DPS propaganda you are doing, start convincing normal and advance players to complete the hardest elite STFs. Once you got a certain population out there, then you can convince the devs to make a harder AI.

    Look at the publicly available stat we have. 19k players ISA parses vs 70 players at HSE parses.

    Now, the current AI aint dumb but it isnt at the level wherein it chain locks you the whole mission, keeps vapes you before you can counter since it is an AI with faster reaction than you pressing your counter. However, from time to time, due to the randomness of the AI, it does that and even more potent the higher the difficulty.
    And dps subgroup is in reallity really small,they are just louder then rest. look at the instances when lor came out 144 on daily basis now maybe 24 with less player in same instances,yeah game is doing great..

    Except this has nothing to do with DPS community. More something to do with what you can personal see and your personal insistence that everyone should remain in PuGs coupled with your personal hatred with the DPS community.

    Public queues to private queues. Players refuse to do certain queues since they are already done getting the rewards. Players doing it on a different timezones.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    sqwished wrote: »
    Dont hate the players, hate the game. Cryptic understands only to well that power creep sells and sells well. It was the power creep that took us to where we are now, and correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it one the Dev's that stated they didn't know the DPS numbers that the likes of Ryan, Sarcasm detector and co generated were possible to begin with.

    It would be hilarious if true. Because for years the PVP crowd had been warning about the Power Creep. Every lockbox, every balance altering patch. We didn't get to where we are now because of 1 massive change that promoted "DPS or GTFO." It was lots and lots of changes over the years. The PVP crowd had always been in the forefront to try to keep things within some semblance of reason but were always ignored, but after DR, they just gave up on it and most have left.

    Take a look at the Fleet Research Holding items next time you visit there. Open up your Captain's Trait Tab. Those are the next series of totally unchecked Power Creep. Wait until Fleets start unlocking those. You think the DPS is stupid now? LOL!
    XzRTofz.gif
  • gofasternowgofasternow Member Posts: 1,390 Arc User
    Is there Power Creep in this game? Yes. Yes, there is. Hell, all games have Power Creep, not just STO. Don't think it's something that happens just here. And 9 times out of 10, the attempt to fix Power Creep just makes the problem worse.

    Do you have to keep up with the Power Creep? NO.

    This is the big problem everyone seems to have - everyone is in the mentality that we have to chase the humongous numbers and become the next Wizard of STO. You don't have to do that. Play competent enough and you'll go far.

    Let me tell you a small story: last week was the first time I hopped into an ISA PuGged. I took my Sci Gorn in with my Nandi. No Fleet Gear - just the Kobali Space Set, the Obelisk set, an extra Omni AP Beam Array, some gear off of my TSABC that I didn't have the marks to create and a bunch of Mk XI AP Beam Arrays from "Fluid Dynamics". I did my best and at the end, someone tossed up a parse. I was at the end 8.5K DPS. Someone team messaged me along the lines of "Ouch, and with that ship!", as if they knew I could do better.

    Me? I didn't care. I was doing enough to do my part in the scheme of things. I now knew I could hold my own if I had to. And I was happy with it. I don't want to go into the 10K DPS club or any of that. I just want to have enough so I can do my part and have fun and that's all that matters to me.
  • sqwishedsqwished Member Posts: 1,475 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2015
    Take a look at the Fleet Research Holding items next time you visit there. Open up your Captain's Trait Tab. Those are the next series of totally unchecked Power Creep. Wait until Fleets start unlocking those. You think the DPS is stupid now? LOL!

    I have looked at them, and I'm in no doubt what they all mean for damage output. But for supposedly getting a handle on power creep with DR, the most they did was reset it a few months at best, and like you say with the items from the R&D holding power creep is going to get given a violent jolt into warp speed again. But like Al said, they've got a handle on power creep. And by that statement the handle is for everyone to simply hold on to so they don't get left behind.

    Oh, it's not broken? We can soon fix that!

  • spyralpegacyonspyralpegacyon Member Posts: 408 Arc User
    Me? I didn't care. I was doing enough to do my part in the scheme of things. I now knew I could hold my own if I had to. And I was happy with it. I don't want to go into the 10K DPS club or any of that. I just want to have enough so I can do my part and have fun and that's all that matters to me.

    I feel a little more encouraged to take my own ship into ISA now. I could use the purple mats.

    ... Maybe after I get the plasma consoles and SROs.
    tumblr_n1hmq4Xl7S1rzu2xzo2_400.gif
  • kyrrokkyrrok Member Posts: 1,352 Arc User

    for others yeah we play elites qs when we need materials for crafting i got over 300k unused marksalmost 2.5 mill unused dill,over 500 mill E.c.so yeah i play.,but all is over so fast,we make maybe 2 space runs all dies in seconds. now i play with pugs at least you got illusion then you can lost and you help somebody to play better or next time will have better understanding of the game..

    We need more of this, and less of these "stay the f**k out of advanced and stop f**king up my runs you m****erf**king nOOb!!!"

    What ever you can say about staying in normal until you're ready, at what point is that determined? Or should they just not play advanced ever?
    i was pro player for 11 years.

    No reason to hate anybody afterall its just a game.there are really more important things in life the playing games,family,children .etc.

    FYi today no lag:D what to say,maybe this will last.lol

    cheers:D

    indeed. whether they're DPS elitists, PVP snobs, or, DPS/PVP haters, there's just no call for any of it

    As for lag, I've experienced it quite often, and often enough seen the chat box read "the lag here is horrrrrrrrible" and "there's no lag, you just have a s**tty computer". The words, "I never had any problem with it so it must not exist" is unreasonable at best.

    cheers to you too :)
  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Is there Power Creep in this game? Yes. Yes, there is. Hell, all games have Power Creep, not just STO. Don't think it's something that happens just here. And 9 times out of 10, the attempt to fix Power Creep just makes the problem worse.

    Do you have to keep up with the Power Creep? NO.

    This is the big problem everyone seems to have - everyone is in the mentality that we have to chase the humongous numbers and become the next Wizard of STO. You don't have to do that. Play competent enough and you'll go far.

    Let me tell you a small story: last week was the first time I hopped into an ISA PuGged. I took my Sci Gorn in with my Nandi. No Fleet Gear - just the Kobali Space Set, the Obelisk set, an extra Omni AP Beam Array, some gear off of my TSABC that I didn't have the marks to create and a bunch of Mk XI AP Beam Arrays from "Fluid Dynamics". I did my best and at the end, someone tossed up a parse. I was at the end 8.5K DPS. Someone team messaged me along the lines of "Ouch, and with that ship!", as if they knew I could do better.

    Me? I didn't care. I was doing enough to do my part in the scheme of things. I now knew I could hold my own if I had to. And I was happy with it. I don't want to go into the 10K DPS club or any of that. I just want to have enough so I can do my part and have fun and that's all that matters to me.

    You wouldn't get any rude comment from me, at least parsing 8.5k is IMO respectable enough to be usable and, shows contribution from said player.

    Not like those paultry 500dps - 3kdps players *cough*, that leave me wondering wth they are doing the entire time!!!

    tumblr_nq9ec3BSAy1qj6sk2o2_500_zpspkqw0mmk.gif


    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    deokkent wrote: »
    sqwished wrote: »
    Dont hate the players, hate the game. Cryptic understands only to well that power creep sells and sells well. It was the power creep that took us to where we are now, and correct me if I'm wrong wasn't it one the Dev's that stated they didn't know the DPS numbers that the likes of Ryan, Sarcasm detector and co generated were possible to begin with.

    It would be hilarious if true. Because for years the PVP crowd had been warning about the Power Creep. Every lockbox, every balance altering patch. We didn't get to where we are now because of 1 massive change that promoted "DPS or GTFO." It was lots and lots of changes over the years. The PVP crowd had always been in the forefront to try to keep things within some semblance of reason but were always ignored, but after DR, they just gave up on it and most have left.

    Take a look at the Fleet Research Holding items next time you visit there. Open up your Captain's Trait Tab. Those are the next series of totally unchecked Power Creep. Wait until Fleets start unlocking those. You think the DPS is stupid now? LOL!

    Well insane RNG combined with plasma explosions enhanced by immense debuffing from nanny recluses allowed one guy to reach 233K dps (averaged out). Dude spiked ~280K dps for a few seconds.

    And they just released a few promising sci consoles in the fleet research holding. I... I just don't know what to say after that.

    Just the other day, getting into the public instances, I kept seeing parse reports of folks doing 40K+ dps. 40K dps the new average? On reddit, an 70K+ boat is born everyday. Maybe they will get the point when everyone is doing 100K dps on average? Sigh...

    You know, I don't really have a problem with dps powercreep. Shouldn't it be incremental, not exponential though?

    I really think bloated NPC hull/shields with the mechanics forcing DPS is the only thing Cryptic can do with STO at this point. All those effects-based builds do not apply in PVE. Viral Matrix? Disables from Photonic Shockwave/Tricobalts, etc.? Scramble Sensors? Too weak due to nerfs from 3 years ago. Phaser Proc was slammed as a result of those Science nerfs, which is funny because at launch, Phasers were, IMO, the best weapons in the game. They had no subsystem disable lockouts.

    We are never going to have better NPC AI. We are never going to see NPCs running a range of abilities (I'm sorry guys, but an NPC running 1-2 special attacks the entire instance isn't "a range of abilities" because it's so pathetic). We can't even have NPCs running Tactical Team, repair their shields, rebalance shield facings, nor even move to protect collapsed shield facings. Even Escort/Raider type of NPC units move around as slow as a NPC Borg Cube. Hangar Unit AI is tied to all this TRIBBLE and Frigates are the worst.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • jackmorgan1149jackmorgan1149 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    deokkent wrote: »

    You know, I don't really have a problem with dps powercreep. Shouldn't it be incremental, not exponential though?

    There are guys that will always be chasing the best, whether it's a 2% increase or a 100%. I believe sustainability is closer to the 2%. I think it was a short-term cash grab and the size motivated players to pony up, quit, or drop their perceived status in relation to their peers and guild mates. Best expansion ever...

    For my part, I have, and still do on occasion spend money on this game. I spent a lot before Delta Rising. Not so much after. I want enough deeps to do runs on elites. After that, I don't care anymore. Variety is so expensive now.
  • paxdawnpaxdawn Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    I really think bloated NPC hull/shields with the mechanics forcing DPS is the only thing Cryptic can do with STO at this point. All those effects-based builds do not apply in PVE. Viral Matrix? Disables from Photonic Shockwave/Tricobalts, etc.? Scramble Sensors? Too weak due to nerfs from 3 years ago. Phaser Proc was slammed as a result of those Science nerfs, which is funny because at launch, Phasers were, IMO, the best weapons in the game. They had no subsystem disable lockouts.

    Ignorance and personal restriction creates the concept that the NPC are just bloated HPs without doing anything but just HPs.

    I dont see Less than 5% of damage from maximum potential requirement for advance as bloated HPs. When highly skilled players restrict themselves to normal, advance or easy elites that was catered for Normal skilled players which would give the concept of too easy. Or if Normal skilled players quality go to advance or elite before actually improving which would give a personal concept of being too hard, bloated HPs.

    Every game has damage minimum requirement. When you see a parse like 100k DPS, you only see the DPS but refuse or didnt see that everything that made it possible. And then after beat it down that it was only DPS and HP because that is the only thing you saw.

    There are also survival, counter, teamwork minimum requirements but you insist that you only see DPS and NPCs bloated HP.

  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    game with alll new damge traits,command ships ,pilot ship is unplayble.fact,solution reduce damage outpout,you dont need more then 16k.

    less damage less lag,

    tell people which ships are playable so less lag in the game,i mean t5 u ships with no dr or post dr traits.more stable game.

    move game towards exploaration/story so you have more time to fix the game..

    15% of players are dps players others are here becouse they love star trek,not some stupid chase for who have the biggest ... in the game..so you actually can gain more players by killing dps then pushing dps more and kill the game for good.

    Yeah i think,your game can handle all this damage,no need for 100k dsp,if you can do 100 k or more game is boring as hell..

    with less damage more team play,result more fun for all.

    less dps more skill..you actually need to have skill to finish some mission,not space bar..

    bring back pvp ,why the hell any game would kill pvp??
    Pvp was way better then this dps online race..

    I dont hate dps but main reason for this state of the game is dps race,or broken traits for even more dps..
    servers are other part of the story.so comment this ,thx.
    So let try something different.

    OP, I'd like you to do me the following favors:
    • Beat HSE/GTGE in a team of 16k or less dps players/ships.
    • Explain to me how introducing new components gives the devs more time to work on other projects
    • Explain to me how I'm not actually having fun, I'm in fact bored, and I just don't know it
    • Explain to me how 100k+ players don't have teamwork
    • Explain to me why one of either PvE or PvP is inherently better than the other
    ​​
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

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  • shpoksshpoks Member Posts: 6,967 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    I agree with the OP on the basic premise about the foolish decision to revolve the game aroud DPS is hurting the game and the community way more that helping. I don't particulary blame the players that like to engage in such activities/measurments, but the shortsightednes of the developer team or whoever makes the final decisions. Shoehorning the entire game into a single setup doesn't help STO at all, it's just slowly killing it. Especially when you consider the profile of the average STO player.

    I have to disagree, however, that the increased DPS is what's causing the lag. It has been my assumption/observation that the extreme excess of pointless glitter aroud almost all of the new abilities that have been broght in over the past couple of years is what slowly contributed towards increasing the lag to this level (amongst other things). The effects in STO are just so over the top and nothing even resembling Star Trek, it's just a spamfest of flashy effects that often leads me to having no idea what's happening around me because it looks like someone launched fireworks around my head. I understand that we should/need to have effects for abilities in an MMO, unlike a Star Trek show, however we used to have very tame and yet visible effects for abilities a while ago. And then suddenly the effects became as if someone unleashed a 3 year old kid to run wild in designing those.
    HQroeLu.jpg
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I don’t really know what to think of the whole ‘DPS’ thing.
    On one hand, if players want to team up in their DPS channel teams and blast through ISA in 43 seconds, fine – whatever – if that’s what you enjoy.
    On the other hand, it has gotten to the point where what little fun was left in PuG ISA has been sucked out. It seems fairly rare to land in a PuG that doesn’t contain someone who averages 50k (or more) DPS. Which, as someone who only manages a paltry 15k DPS, leaves me as little more than a spectator, safe in the disheartening knowledge that I was 100% redundant in that instance.

    But that’s just me – I don’t expect everyone to hate vape runs, it’s just happens that I do. And the fact that they’ve become so very commonplace in PuGs again is painfully disappointing. And it can, sadly, only get worse.

    m8 just play whay you like,this dps thing cant go much further,game can handle all this stress. second thing as i wrote before what is enuff dps 500k ,1 mill,2 mill.. where you gona go with damage???

    big thing right now in upcomming space simulations is exploaration,and franchise that is synonim for exploaration is wasting resources on dps.

    i heard 14 times today,im done with grind i will go play elite dangerous..enuff said.can you blame them??

    this game needs a balance.all mmos good mmos are good becouse they are well balanced.if all is about damage why we have tac,sci,eng, officers to play,just make all tac and kaboom:D


    finally, there is no reason to hate anybody,its just a game.pvp players are about balance ,you cant be best or good if you have better gear,better consoles.etc..i like old skool pvp.:D

    spreding hate in star trek game is just stupid,so big no to hate..


    'Play how you want' is a double-edged sword.

    My point was that if I enter a PuG and a DPS fixed player in a 70k BFAW build enters an instance, I am not playing the way I want to - I'm watching HIM play how HE wants to.

    Is 40k DPS ok to queue up and play? Just asking because I made my expensive build adjustments the past 8 moths not play in some league but only to be able to make a game out of it when 1 player AFKs 2 get DCs and the forth excuses himself pulling 3k because he thought to be on scientific survey to study the Borg.

    In any case glad to hear that the trouble in queues has shifted from fails to… wow matches running to fast. This really has taken effort for some.
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  • spyralpegacyonspyralpegacyon Member Posts: 408 Arc User
    OP, I'd like you to do me the following favors:​​

    One look at OP's inability to grammar and punctuate should have told you everything about what he's posting, Vel.
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  • kittyflofykittyflofy Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User

    Is 40k DPS ok to queue up and play?
    [/quote]

    40k DPS is more than enough. Even with 20k dps you will be more than fine.
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