One thing I don't understand is why Cryptic gets so pissed off when theoretically they could just not patch things until they are released. I'm pretty sure it's not rocket science...
I may get pissed if I get robbed but if leave my doors unlocked and put a 'Welcome Robbers' sign on the porch I shouldn't expect anything less. From what I understand all they do is read game files from the latest patches... Anyone who can read can do that.
It is really simple, people just would not shut up about them, despite clear instructions on the site to "not mentioning them on these forums" so they closed it down.
Then they're idiots.
You don't go and find this information, buy a domain, build a web site and post it for everyone to see if you don't want people to talk about it. If that's true then it's absolutely ridiculous. If I find something about the game and I don't want the public to know, the last thing I'm going to do is post it on a web site. I would tell people I know. or at most post it on a site that only my friends/guild/fleet/etc could see.
IQ Fleet gets the bulk of their information from dissecting updates like the Season 10.5 pre-load.. that's where the information comes from. So right now, they simply have nothing to report. They're gone until they have something relevant to say, no other reason. People who talked about it on this forum did exactly what anyone with any sense would expect them to do. If IQ didn't want their stuff going public, then they shouldn't have put it on Twitter and a publicly viewable web page.
To blame people for discussing information decimated to them in a public forum makes no sense.
1: It's not that they were talking about it. It's that they were talking about it in the official STO forums. I sincerely doubt PWE or Cryptic would care or do much about people discussing data leaks in another forum.
Talking about information leaks on the official forums is just plain stupidity.
2: This isn't a public forum, it's a private forum owned by PWE. They set the rules.
3: The IQ Fleet are also idiots if that was their actual fleet name. You are right about giving them partial blame. If I were to do something like IQ Fleet, I would A: Not use my in-game fleet name on the website used for information leaks. B: Not advertise who I was or what fleet I belonged to on that website OR the STO forums.
If Cryptic sent them a cease-and-desist letter, that's really on them for bragging about who they were. They should have used a fleet pen name and anonymous names that couldn't be tied to their PW account or in-game organization.
Smartest fleet, indeed.
It's actually pretty bold if you think about it, they fly right under the nose of Cryptic even releasing their fleet name and there's nothing Cryptic can do about it. That's pretty badass if you ask me!
I'm sure they have hundreds of fleet members so what can Cryptic do? Ban the entire fleet? I have no doubt the hackers themselves keep a low profile even within their own fleet so there's actually very little Cryptic could do to them.
One thing I don't understand is why Cryptic gets so pissed off when theoretically they could just not patch things until they are released. I'm pretty sure it's not rocket science...
I may get pissed if I get robbed but if leave my doors unlocked and put a 'Welcome Robbers' sign on the porch I shouldn't expect anything less. From what I understand all they do is read game files from the latest patches... Anyone who can read can do that.
"I'm going to set this nice jar of cookies right here on the counter but your not allowed to eat one because I said so."
Real intimidating.
I'm not neccesarily defending them I'm just pointing out Cryptic has done very little to stop them... Also I'm pretty sure Starfleet Dental runs its own leaks page that they charge money for. I'm sure this pisses Cryptic off FAR more.
I kinda liked knowing if the ship I was going to buy was going to be obsoleted in the near future.
Me too. That's probably Reason Number 1 why Cryptic didn't want it up, it hurt sales of the DOA ships in favor of actually interesting ships.
The site in question never had stats up. There was no way to tell if that ship you were to buy real soon was going to be obsolete in the near future, even with that gouge. It had bits of info, yes, but not enough to say, "Man, this upcoming ship is going to be OP / weak."
DOA ships are DOA ships. Some can see the stats or whatever even on the official news releases, and tell if the ship is to their liking or not.
It's actually pretty bold if you think about it, they fly right under the nose of Cryptic even releasing their fleet name and there's nothing Cryptic can do about it. That's pretty badass if you ask me!
I'm sure they have hundreds of fleet members so what can Cryptic do? Ban the entire fleet? I have no doubt the hackers themselves keep a low profile even within their own fleet so there's actually very little Cryptic could do to them.
Oh, but Cryptic can do something about it; they can even take legal action if they so choose.
They're not hacking. They're using a program which makes the files readable. It's a standard tool used in making game modifications. I know this because I used to modify a certain series of games with a EULA which permitted it, developed by a company which encouraged it. Hacking is something else.
"I'm going to set this nice jar of cookies right here on the counter but your not allowed to eat one because I said so."
Real intimidating.
I'm not neccesarily defending them I'm just pointing out Cryptic has done very little to stop them... Also I'm pretty sure [REDACTED]
Nobody is forcing anyone to use a datamining program, and those people did, after all, agree to the EULA.
As for your last sentence, there's another rule about "naming and shaming" (whether I agree with the rule or not) which members of that particular group seem to take great pleasure in reporting people for violating ...
Does no one think Cryptic has employees capable of using the internet? You don't think Crptic knew about them long before anyone mentioned them on here?
While I understand why IQ Fleet took their page down (even though it makes me sad that they did), they shouldnt care if people were talking about it on the forums or not and just kept doing it... my stance is that if Cryptic doesnt want things leaked they should keep those things off my hard drive... because once its there they have no reasonable expectation that I wont look at it.
It's actually pretty bold if you think about it, they fly right under the nose of Cryptic even releasing their fleet name and there's nothing Cryptic can do about it. That's pretty badass if you ask me!
I see your point, but don't think of it the same way. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't believe for one solitary second that it's possible to get 'banned' in this game unless you commit some type of fraud. This game has absolutely no rules at all, none of them are getting banned and they know it. You can say or do anything in this game, no one enforces rules at all.
The point remains the same, they posted their leaks online. They posted them on twitter, they intentionally circulated the information for anyone to read. If they're really upset over people discussing that information then they should change their fleet name to 'Low IQ Fleet' because that's ridiculously stupid. You don't post things online and then tweet out the information if it's supposed to be a secret. The last people I blame are the people that discussed the leaks, even on this forum.
While I understand why IQ Fleet took their page down (even though it makes me sad that they did), they shouldnt care if people were talking about it on the forums or not and just kept doing it... my stance is that if Cryptic doesnt want things leaked they should keep those things off my hard drive... because once its there they have no reasonable expectation that I wont look at it.
Correct. Which is likely why this went on for as long as it did. It was only when people stopped blowing dog whistles and openly started discussing leaks on the official STO forums -- and openly slamming Cryptic for unreleased, datamined material that it started to become a problem worth looking into.
It isn't so much that Cryptic cared that deeply about it, I don't think. It's just that players were crossing the line more and more until they were creating 20+ page threads over things that were never released in a dev blog, or responded to by Cryptic at all, and treating leaks as if it was official Cryptic information despite the fact nobody at Cryptic was going to officially comment on something brought up through a blatant EULA violation.
Cryptic knows they can't stop people from datamining. Cryptic also knows they can't stop people from discussing leaks on their own forums or in private channels or in e-mail or Facebook or whatever. You can get a program, look at the files yourself and get the same information the IQ Fleet did, and Cryptic could not do anything about it.
What they can do is try to tighten the faucet to prevent dripping. On the forums, it wasn't just dripping. People just left the faucet running, and now people are upset the faucet was turned off.
I think Cryptic was unusually tolerant of this behavior. But there is no honor system on the internet. The IQ Fleet erred in publically disclosing who they were and what they were doing, making links to their in-game personas and fleet extremely obvious -- and thus open to disciplinary action by Cryptic. And the people who looked at the IQ Fleet leaks erred in thinking it was perfectly socially acceptable to discuss at great length things that were never intended to be publically disclosed.
Instead of blaming Cryptic for pre-patching the game and putting things on our hard drives, there should be more personal responsibility pushed onto the people of the STO forums and the IQ Fleet, instead of Cryptic for "tempting" them.
People want to compare it to getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar? Fine. But then you have to look at this thread and see people blaming Cryptic for having a jar full of cookies to begin with.
It isn't so much that Cryptic cared that deeply about it, I don't think. It's just that players were crossing the line more and more until they were creating 20+ page threads over things that were never released in a dev blog, or responded to by Cryptic at all, and treating leaks as if it was official Cryptic information despite the fact nobody at Cryptic was going to officially comment on something brought up through a blatant EULA violation.
A very good point, and one of the few legitimate complaints that Cryptic would have with the 'leaks.'
Again though, I put part of this on them for the fact that they don't moderate their forums. They could have stemmed that problem themselves if they had anyone moderating the boards and locking/deleting threads that violate the terms of service. They will get around to it.. eventually.. but by the time anyone does anything the thread is 3 days old and 20 pages long.
It isn't so much that Cryptic cared that deeply about it, I don't think. It's just that players were crossing the line more and more until they were creating 20+ page threads over things that were never released in a dev blog, or responded to by Cryptic at all, and treating leaks as if it was official Cryptic information despite the fact nobody at Cryptic was going to officially comment on something brought up through a blatant EULA violation.
A very good point, and one of the few legitimate complaints that Cryptic would have with the 'leaks.'
Again though, I put part of this on them for the fact that they don't moderate their forums. They could have stemmed that problem themselves if they had anyone moderating the boards and locking/deleting threads that violate the terms of service. They will get around to it.. eventually.. but by the time anyone does anything the thread is 3 days old and 20 pages long.
I don't disagree with the STO forums lacking in moderation. But sub-standard forum moderation isn't a 'get out of jail free' card. People have to own what they did and recognize why the consequences are what they are.
I really have to wonder what goes through the minds of some of these people... what did they seriously think was going to happen?
I don't disagree with the STO forums lacking in moderation. But sub-standard forum moderation isn't a 'get out of jail free' card. People have to own what they did and recognize why the consequences are what they are.
Instead of blaming Cryptic for pre-patching the game and putting things on our hard drives, there should be more personal responsibility pushed onto the people of the STO forums and the IQ Fleet, instead of Cryptic for "tempting" them.
Oh, I fully think that the people openly discussing the content of leaks (and slamming Cryptic for them) on these forums should receive the largest portion of the blame, Cryptic doesnt get off scott free.
I dont think IQ fleet deserves any of the blame... obviously, if they got caught (which I dont know if they did), then sure Cryptic is free to punish them in within the terms of their EULA, but the only two parties I see as needing to be blamed are Cryptic and the people slamming Cryptic for the content of the leaks.
People want to compare it to getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar? Fine. But then you have to look at this thread and see people blaming Cryptic for having a jar full of cookies to begin with.
Except this isnt just Cryptic having a jar full of cookies in the first place... its Cryptic handing that a jar full of cookies to EVERYONE. You cant blame people for opening it and gorging on cookies if you handed them the whole jar... you can blame the people who handed them the jar in the first place though.
Sadly the peeps that run this page can be easily traced in game through their fleet tag and the rest speaks for itself.
If the fans of this game give Cryptic/PWE the same interest and enthusiasm as Apple fans do for their company they should be greatfull for this. It’s worlds more than they deserve.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
While I understand why IQ Fleet took their page down (even though it makes me sad that they did), they shouldnt care if people were talking about it on the forums or not and just kept doing it... my stance is that if Cryptic doesnt want things leaked they should keep those things off my hard drive... because once its there they have no reasonable expectation that I wont look at it.
Correct. Which is likely why this went on for as long as it did. It was only when people stopped blowing dog whistles and openly started discussing leaks on the official STO forums -- and openly slamming Cryptic for unreleased, datamined material that it started to become a problem worth looking into.
It isn't so much that Cryptic cared that deeply about it, I don't think. It's just that players were crossing the line more and more until they were creating 20+ page threads over things that were never released in a dev blog, or responded to by Cryptic at all, and treating leaks as if it was official Cryptic information despite the fact nobody at Cryptic was going to officially comment on something brought up through a blatant EULA violation.
Cryptic knows they can't stop people from datamining. Cryptic also knows they can't stop people from discussing leaks on their own forums or in private channels or in e-mail or Facebook or whatever. You can get a program, look at the files yourself and get the same information the IQ Fleet did, and Cryptic could not do anything about it.
What they can do is try to tighten the faucet to prevent dripping. On the forums, it wasn't just dripping. People just left the faucet running, and now people are upset the faucet was turned off.
I think Cryptic was unusually tolerant of this behavior. But there is no honor system on the internet. The IQ Fleet erred in publically disclosing who they were and what they were doing, making links to their in-game personas and fleet extremely obvious -- and thus open to disciplinary action by Cryptic. And the people who looked at the IQ Fleet leaks erred in thinking it was perfectly socially acceptable to discuss at great length things that were never intended to be publically disclosed.
Instead of blaming Cryptic for pre-patching the game and putting things on our hard drives, there should be more personal responsibility pushed onto the people of the STO forums and the IQ Fleet, instead of Cryptic for "tempting" them.
People want to compare it to getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar? Fine. But then you have to look at this thread and see people blaming Cryptic for having a jar full of cookies to begin with.
Personal responsibility, that's how it works.
I think it's a shame because they sometimes provided a few details that gave us insight into things about how the game ran, something Cryptic unfortunately stopped doing. I was especially interested in the Chase Masterson/Ferengi episode.
I know how to dig this stuff out and I've found things about games in the past. I used to do WoW model editing and had a custom mount skin I used. There was a point when I did... more creative stuff with WoW and as a result found myself talking more and more not just to GMs but developers.
The concern with this kind of thing is always going to be:
1) People using it to financially exploit the game by finding a way to bypass payments or manipulate in game markets.
2) People using it for gameplay advantages.
3) People discovering information on canned projects and mistaking that for intent to develop that content or spoiling surprises.
4) People bugging characters or account data in ways that eat up GM time.
I can name a number of other uses for this kind of thing. My uses in other games were always exploratory, focusing on understanding things like how the game client and server communicate, what content had been abandoned, or what minor graphical tricks you could play. I think that was always IQ fleet's intent but you can't, unfortunately, impose an intent on public discussion.
99% of people who get into this sort of thing are into item duping, DPS cheats, botting, and speedhacking.
I was always into things like how to figure out ways to get my hands on a mount or armor piece or tailor option my faction couldn't get, how to unlock a different species or class.
For instance, a playable giant skeleton in WoW. That was doable with very creative use of tools at one point. Giant skeletons, ogres, Naga, and goblins were in the game as valid player species for years there and it took... well... creative thinking to make a playable one. And I was always very white hat about that sort of thing in that anything that could compromise the DB like that, I'd verify I could do (on a test server if possible) and then report.
I did devise a few ways to get cross faction mounts in WoW and I shared those. Likewise tailor tricks in a few games.
It'd be cool to be QA, I think, especially if they gave you time to try and compromise a closed version of the game to discover security holes to close.
It would be nice if Cryptic/PWE would use the moment to rethink their information/advertising policy. There wouldn't be a demand for "illegal activities". Wishful thinking, I know companies don't work that way. They just want to shut down and not learn, but the current policy of releasing non-information (anyone remember the seemingly dozens of "stay tuned, it happens sooooon!" blogs?) and release a blog the very day before something hits the live servers is rather annoying...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Apparently, people still can't keep silent about it. Seriously, when something is a violation of the EULA, posting about it in the official fora, and especially in the most heavily trafficked of the fora (this hyar "General Discussion" forum), is a sure way to get someone in trouble. Tact is all too rare these days, I suppose.
I have mixed feelings about it myself. On the one hand, it was a useful source of information (even if it sometimes got things wrong, since things can change significantly from design to implementation). On the other hand, it was a violation of the End-User License Agreement.
I don't really shed tears about the EULA. It's not a law, it's not a moral guideline. It's just an agreement. And the real purpose of the EULA in this case was probably not to avoid leaks (it may be a nice side-benefit, but protection from leaks are usually for NDAs), but to avoid people stealing trade secrets of the software and reusing material for other commercial projects. Stuff that could really hurt Cryptic's business. The leaks can do as much harm as they can do good - they raise excitement, as people wonder when the leaked stuff makes it into the game, but hey might also cause some people to be disappointed when the leak contains stuff they don't want, or alter their purchase behaviour (why buy Ship X if you know about Ship Y already and know you'll want that much more.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It is really simple, people just would not shut up about them, despite clear instructions on the site to "not mentioning them on these forums" so they closed it down.
Then they're idiots.
You don't go and find this information, buy a domain, build a web site and post it for everyone to see if you don't want people to talk about it.
They are probably okay with people talking about the information. But not okay about talking who found and released that information.
But how do you disseminate information? You have to tell someone if you want to share information. A website is a pretty good way to do so without needing to send personal messages, e-mails or chat messages.
One thing I don't understand is why Cryptic gets so pissed off when theoretically they could just not patch things until they are released. I'm pretty sure it's not rocket science...
I may get pissed if I get robbed but if leave my doors unlocked and put a 'Welcome Robbers' sign on the porch I shouldn't expect anything less. From what I understand all they do is read game files from the latest patches... Anyone who can read can do that.
"I'm going to set this nice jar of cookies right here on the counter but your not allowed to eat one because I said so."
Real intimidating.
At no point did Cryptic tell anyone that the game files contain information about future releases. They just told people to not even look into the game files to datamine. It does actually not matter for the EULA whether you datamine to find new material, or you datamine to find the 3D model of the ugly Galaxy Class variant skin that the game shipped with many years ago.
"Hey, guys, my room is off-limits."
"Oh, look, he has his diary in his room! Cool, let's read it!"
"Hey, I told you not to look in my room."
"Then why did you say that whe shouldn't look in the room! You knew we would do it then and find your diary".
"Okay, I guess you're right. My bad. Read away."
Alikely exchange in
Come on guys. Some of us here should be adults, and know that you must take responsibility for your actions, even if that means that there are consequences for your actions. And even if sometimes you can get away scot-free, and sometimes you don't.
Of course, I think I.Q. Fleet does so. It's just some people posting here that seem to thin like that.
I sometimes speed, whenever I think it's safe to do so because I can't harm anyone. But the speed limit applies all the time, not just when I think it's convenient to me. Most of the times I don't get caught. But when I do, I simply pay the fine and accept that what I did was against the law.
But I know that there plenty of people that would then start screaming and getting angry at the "guberment" or whatever. When the only one to get angry with is oneself.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Current odds: ∞ to 1. Yeah, I'm certain that nobody could keep any meaningful amount of information secrete. IE: the above arguments, res ipsa loquitur tabula in naufragio.
But how do you disseminate information? You have to tell someone if you want to share information. A website is a pretty good way to do so without needing to send personal messages, e-mails or chat messages.
It depends entirely on how many people you want to tell. If they just wanted to share information among their fleet, they could have posted in a members only section. Instead, they listed it on a publicly viewable web site and then posted the links on Twitter. Clearly, their intent was to disperse the information to a large number of people. I have no issue with this, but what I find funny is that they made this information available to STO players and then get angry because it's discussed on this forum. This forum is a community dedicated to STO, the game they're leaking information about. They had to know it was going to get back to Cryptic, it was unavoidable.
Someone was going to start a discussion on it eventually, rather it was here, on Reddit, Social Media, whatever.. and eventually, Cryptic was going to see the 'leaks.' No one from IQ should be the least bit surprised that it was discussed here or that Cryptic found out about it. That's what happens when you shout something in a public venue. They had the option to keep it 'in house' or post for everyone to see, and they made that choice. The results are not the fault of the people that started discussions on that information.
There goes all your informed buying decisions, I personally stayed away from the episode leaks, wanted it to be a nice surprise but the ship package leaks I welcomed as money doesn't grow on trees and to buy certain ship upgrades only to find a better T6 item the next day with no warning (yes devs you have burned us) just makes me want to hold onto my money and not risk it on the game.
BTW bought the alot of c-store items/ships, but now not knowing whats on the horizon I'll hold off.
Funny thing is all the devs have done is shoot themselves in the foot, now I wont spend anything incase theres something better.
What we need is a trailer/coming soon even a teaser about c-store (cost you money) items other wise no one spends while waiting for the 'what if next'......
I'm on both sides of the fence with this argument, but this quote is the reason why I'm more in favour of leaks than against.
I'm poor, but I like shiny things. Because I'm poor, I need to be careful how many shiny things I can buy. Because PWE has a pretty insidious business model (I mean seriously, 'Make sure you don't miss out on the opening weekend discount! Buy it now!'), they want me to buy everything without an informed choice. I've made this mistake before because I got swept up in the excitement, only to find a ship I wanted more down the line.
Now, if I know what's on the horizon, I can make an informed decision to wait for the ships that I'm interested in. Sure, this will mean that I won't get over-excited and buy everything just because it's shiny. I'll hold onto my money and buy what I actually want.
PWE will still get their money from their whales and the lockboxes. Is it so bad that I want to have an informed decision because I have poor impulse control and limited funds?
"Polls are so annoying, let's make a poll to see who agrees!"
Not only as iconises said us it preempting the marketing dept it als does real harm to us the player base.
Quite often unanounced projects come up and preliminary assets for those projects are put into the client to make it easier for the devs to work on, if these assets are leaked and we do not see them appear eventually (maybe because the project got nix'd or whatever), the "entitlement" reaction kicks in from players who end up going on a forum crusade trying to get a response, this always ends up in bad feeling between members of the community and even devs.
For me the sneak previews allowed me to exchange dilithium into zen prior to the "new ship release frenzy" on the exchange.
Favorable exchange rates can save up close to 20% on a purchase. Not to mention it gave a little incentive to continue playing during the iconian reputation etc. Not feeling the immersion for this so called iconian war.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I don't see how it hurt Cryptic (though it may've in some way I don't see)
There are people at PWE/Cryptic who get paid for releasing information to the playerbase. There's department called "Marketing" that has employees who are both loathed and loved (kind of like lawyers, since the game can't function without them). That is really the only harm these leaks do.
They are doing for free what people get a paycheck to do. I have no opinion on it one way or the other, I'm just saying that's the harm, and other game developers are the same way when it comes to data mining and leaks.
The IQ Fleet cut out the Middle Man, and Middle Men don't take kindly to being cut out.
and they seemed to let it slide as an 'open secret' of the community.
Apparently, that's not the case.
You don't see developer and community... tolerate each others foibles like that too often, and it's sad to see this case get pushed too far.
I think they tolerated it as best as they could. But instead of players remembering that these leaks are against the EULA and that they should remember to at least pretend -- they decided to brag about it and talk about it on the STO forums at great length.
It's kind of like stealing office supplies. Sure, people can get away with stealing a coffee mug or a pen here and there, but when you start getting employees putting office supplies on fork lifts and putting it in the back of their pick-up truck and asking management to help strap it down, you've completely disregarded the idea that what you're doing is wrong.
We've had threads about leaks and slamming Cryptic over unreleased information brought about by datamining. That's the equivelant of asking management to help you steal office supplies.
People decided to be dumb. There's no other way to put it.
It's not just this, it's also the exact same thing that caused the Engineering Reports to stop, people see what the leaks are and if the leaked content is changed or pulled at the last minute due to bugs/CBS demands/ect. then people would act the same way as when stuff was removed from the long term plans section of the Engineering reports and treat it as though Cryptic made a promise the content was coming.
Comments
http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms
Specifically, 14.2 (e)
I kinda liked knowing if the ship I was going to buy was going to be obsoleted in the near future.
It's actually pretty bold if you think about it, they fly right under the nose of Cryptic even releasing their fleet name and there's nothing Cryptic can do about it. That's pretty badass if you ask me!
I'm sure they have hundreds of fleet members so what can Cryptic do? Ban the entire fleet? I have no doubt the hackers themselves keep a low profile even within their own fleet so there's actually very little Cryptic could do to them.
"I'm going to set this nice jar of cookies right here on the counter but your not allowed to eat one because I said so."
Real intimidating.
I'm not neccesarily defending them I'm just pointing out Cryptic has done very little to stop them... Also I'm pretty sure Starfleet Dental runs its own leaks page that they charge money for. I'm sure this pisses Cryptic off FAR more.
Too many blabber mouths. It ain't coming back.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
You seem so certain?
The site in question never had stats up. There was no way to tell if that ship you were to buy real soon was going to be obsolete in the near future, even with that gouge. It had bits of info, yes, but not enough to say, "Man, this upcoming ship is going to be OP / weak."
DOA ships are DOA ships. Some can see the stats or whatever even on the official news releases, and tell if the ship is to their liking or not.
Oh, but Cryptic can do something about it; they can even take legal action if they so choose.
They're not hacking. They're using a program which makes the files readable. It's a standard tool used in making game modifications. I know this because I used to modify a certain series of games with a EULA which permitted it, developed by a company which encouraged it. Hacking is something else.
Nobody is forcing anyone to use a datamining program, and those people did, after all, agree to the EULA.
As for your last sentence, there's another rule about "naming and shaming" (whether I agree with the rule or not) which members of that particular group seem to take great pleasure in reporting people for violating ...
They have eyes everywhere!!!
It will be, it's just a question of when. There.. you're welcome.
I see your point, but don't think of it the same way. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, I don't believe for one solitary second that it's possible to get 'banned' in this game unless you commit some type of fraud. This game has absolutely no rules at all, none of them are getting banned and they know it. You can say or do anything in this game, no one enforces rules at all.
The point remains the same, they posted their leaks online. They posted them on twitter, they intentionally circulated the information for anyone to read. If they're really upset over people discussing that information then they should change their fleet name to 'Low IQ Fleet' because that's ridiculously stupid. You don't post things online and then tweet out the information if it's supposed to be a secret. The last people I blame are the people that discussed the leaks, even on this forum.
Correct. Which is likely why this went on for as long as it did. It was only when people stopped blowing dog whistles and openly started discussing leaks on the official STO forums -- and openly slamming Cryptic for unreleased, datamined material that it started to become a problem worth looking into.
It isn't so much that Cryptic cared that deeply about it, I don't think. It's just that players were crossing the line more and more until they were creating 20+ page threads over things that were never released in a dev blog, or responded to by Cryptic at all, and treating leaks as if it was official Cryptic information despite the fact nobody at Cryptic was going to officially comment on something brought up through a blatant EULA violation.
Cryptic knows they can't stop people from datamining. Cryptic also knows they can't stop people from discussing leaks on their own forums or in private channels or in e-mail or Facebook or whatever. You can get a program, look at the files yourself and get the same information the IQ Fleet did, and Cryptic could not do anything about it.
What they can do is try to tighten the faucet to prevent dripping. On the forums, it wasn't just dripping. People just left the faucet running, and now people are upset the faucet was turned off.
I think Cryptic was unusually tolerant of this behavior. But there is no honor system on the internet. The IQ Fleet erred in publically disclosing who they were and what they were doing, making links to their in-game personas and fleet extremely obvious -- and thus open to disciplinary action by Cryptic. And the people who looked at the IQ Fleet leaks erred in thinking it was perfectly socially acceptable to discuss at great length things that were never intended to be publically disclosed.
Instead of blaming Cryptic for pre-patching the game and putting things on our hard drives, there should be more personal responsibility pushed onto the people of the STO forums and the IQ Fleet, instead of Cryptic for "tempting" them.
People want to compare it to getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar? Fine. But then you have to look at this thread and see people blaming Cryptic for having a jar full of cookies to begin with.
Personal responsibility, that's how it works.
A very good point, and one of the few legitimate complaints that Cryptic would have with the 'leaks.'
Again though, I put part of this on them for the fact that they don't moderate their forums. They could have stemmed that problem themselves if they had anyone moderating the boards and locking/deleting threads that violate the terms of service. They will get around to it.. eventually.. but by the time anyone does anything the thread is 3 days old and 20 pages long.
I don't disagree with the STO forums lacking in moderation. But sub-standard forum moderation isn't a 'get out of jail free' card. People have to own what they did and recognize why the consequences are what they are.
I really have to wonder what goes through the minds of some of these people... what did they seriously think was going to happen?
Agreed.
Oh, I fully think that the people openly discussing the content of leaks (and slamming Cryptic for them) on these forums should receive the largest portion of the blame, Cryptic doesnt get off scott free.
I dont think IQ fleet deserves any of the blame... obviously, if they got caught (which I dont know if they did), then sure Cryptic is free to punish them in within the terms of their EULA, but the only two parties I see as needing to be blamed are Cryptic and the people slamming Cryptic for the content of the leaks.
Except this isnt just Cryptic having a jar full of cookies in the first place... its Cryptic handing that a jar full of cookies to EVERYONE. You cant blame people for opening it and gorging on cookies if you handed them the whole jar... you can blame the people who handed them the jar in the first place though.
If the fans of this game give Cryptic/PWE the same interest and enthusiasm as Apple fans do for their company they should be greatfull for this. It’s worlds more than they deserve.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I think it's a shame because they sometimes provided a few details that gave us insight into things about how the game ran, something Cryptic unfortunately stopped doing. I was especially interested in the Chase Masterson/Ferengi episode.
I know how to dig this stuff out and I've found things about games in the past. I used to do WoW model editing and had a custom mount skin I used. There was a point when I did... more creative stuff with WoW and as a result found myself talking more and more not just to GMs but developers.
The concern with this kind of thing is always going to be:
1) People using it to financially exploit the game by finding a way to bypass payments or manipulate in game markets.
2) People using it for gameplay advantages.
3) People discovering information on canned projects and mistaking that for intent to develop that content or spoiling surprises.
4) People bugging characters or account data in ways that eat up GM time.
I can name a number of other uses for this kind of thing. My uses in other games were always exploratory, focusing on understanding things like how the game client and server communicate, what content had been abandoned, or what minor graphical tricks you could play. I think that was always IQ fleet's intent but you can't, unfortunately, impose an intent on public discussion.
99% of people who get into this sort of thing are into item duping, DPS cheats, botting, and speedhacking.
I was always into things like how to figure out ways to get my hands on a mount or armor piece or tailor option my faction couldn't get, how to unlock a different species or class.
For instance, a playable giant skeleton in WoW. That was doable with very creative use of tools at one point. Giant skeletons, ogres, Naga, and goblins were in the game as valid player species for years there and it took... well... creative thinking to make a playable one. And I was always very white hat about that sort of thing in that anything that could compromise the DB like that, I'd verify I could do (on a test server if possible) and then report.
I did devise a few ways to get cross faction mounts in WoW and I shared those. Likewise tailor tricks in a few games.
It'd be cool to be QA, I think, especially if they gave you time to try and compromise a closed version of the game to discover security holes to close.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But how do you disseminate information? You have to tell someone if you want to share information. A website is a pretty good way to do so without needing to send personal messages, e-mails or chat messages.
At no point did Cryptic tell anyone that the game files contain information about future releases. They just told people to not even look into the game files to datamine. It does actually not matter for the EULA whether you datamine to find new material, or you datamine to find the 3D model of the ugly Galaxy Class variant skin that the game shipped with many years ago.
"Hey, guys, my room is off-limits."
"Oh, look, he has his diary in his room! Cool, let's read it!"
"Hey, I told you not to look in my room."
"Then why did you say that whe shouldn't look in the room! You knew we would do it then and find your diary".
"Okay, I guess you're right. My bad. Read away."
Alikely exchange in
Come on guys. Some of us here should be adults, and know that you must take responsibility for your actions, even if that means that there are consequences for your actions. And even if sometimes you can get away scot-free, and sometimes you don't.
Of course, I think I.Q. Fleet does so. It's just some people posting here that seem to thin like that.
I sometimes speed, whenever I think it's safe to do so because I can't harm anyone. But the speed limit applies all the time, not just when I think it's convenient to me. Most of the times I don't get caught. But when I do, I simply pay the fine and accept that what I did was against the law.
But I know that there plenty of people that would then start screaming and getting angry at the "guberment" or whatever. When the only one to get angry with is oneself.
Current odds: ∞ to 1. Yeah, I'm certain that nobody could keep any meaningful amount of information secrete. IE: the above arguments, res ipsa loquitur tabula in naufragio.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
It depends entirely on how many people you want to tell. If they just wanted to share information among their fleet, they could have posted in a members only section. Instead, they listed it on a publicly viewable web site and then posted the links on Twitter. Clearly, their intent was to disperse the information to a large number of people. I have no issue with this, but what I find funny is that they made this information available to STO players and then get angry because it's discussed on this forum. This forum is a community dedicated to STO, the game they're leaking information about. They had to know it was going to get back to Cryptic, it was unavoidable.
Someone was going to start a discussion on it eventually, rather it was here, on Reddit, Social Media, whatever.. and eventually, Cryptic was going to see the 'leaks.' No one from IQ should be the least bit surprised that it was discussed here or that Cryptic found out about it. That's what happens when you shout something in a public venue. They had the option to keep it 'in house' or post for everyone to see, and they made that choice. The results are not the fault of the people that started discussions on that information.
I'm on both sides of the fence with this argument, but this quote is the reason why I'm more in favour of leaks than against.
I'm poor, but I like shiny things. Because I'm poor, I need to be careful how many shiny things I can buy. Because PWE has a pretty insidious business model (I mean seriously, 'Make sure you don't miss out on the opening weekend discount! Buy it now!'), they want me to buy everything without an informed choice. I've made this mistake before because I got swept up in the excitement, only to find a ship I wanted more down the line.
Now, if I know what's on the horizon, I can make an informed decision to wait for the ships that I'm interested in. Sure, this will mean that I won't get over-excited and buy everything just because it's shiny. I'll hold onto my money and buy what I actually want.
PWE will still get their money from their whales and the lockboxes. Is it so bad that I want to have an informed decision because I have poor impulse control and limited funds?
Quite often unanounced projects come up and preliminary assets for those projects are put into the client to make it easier for the devs to work on, if these assets are leaked and we do not see them appear eventually (maybe because the project got nix'd or whatever), the "entitlement" reaction kicks in from players who end up going on a forum crusade trying to get a response, this always ends up in bad feeling between members of the community and even devs.
Favorable exchange rates can save up close to 20% on a purchase. Not to mention it gave a little incentive to continue playing during the iconian reputation etc. Not feeling the immersion for this so called iconian war.
It's not just this, it's also the exact same thing that caused the Engineering Reports to stop, people see what the leaks are and if the leaked content is changed or pulled at the last minute due to bugs/CBS demands/ect. then people would act the same way as when stuff was removed from the long term plans section of the Engineering reports and treat it as though Cryptic made a promise the content was coming.