First up is for everyone that is worried about being ridiculed. Haters, trolls, and elitists already exist in the game. Sit for long in sector space and you are bound to come across it. Yet if you check out the DPS Channels/League, you will notice that even people who can do over 100k dps not only are not hating on people dealing 10k or less - they are trying to help them (only if they want it of course) achieve a more powerful build.
'Hater's are going to hate' though, no matter what game it is. Play CoD, WoW, or any game that is played over the internet and you will find hater, trolls, and elitists. That just the way the internet is - full of haters, trolls, and elitists.
People can already see others dps anyway using a dps parser, why are people worried about what program is going to show it to them? Besides if it was built into the game, it would probably only show YOUR dps and not everyone's. Either way who cares if someone else knows your DPS. Every other online game on the market has something to track your effectiveness:
-fps games include rankings that show everything from kill/deaths to total # of bullets fired and accuracy
-online racing games have rankings and stats
-other MMORPGs also have DPS parsers as well - some even have rankings
-virtually every game that uses the internet tracks a players progress and stats
Second is in regards to what PvEs equals the dps 'gauge' (i.e. ISA vs Disconnected). DPS is DPS, i.e. Damage Per Second no matter what event it is in. The reason why Disconnected has a lower DPS is because you spend less of your total time in combat (remember, not firing equals 0 dps).
Finally, for those that say DPS should not matter I offer this thought. We all want a powerful ship/player, it is no fun dying. I have been playing STO for ~4 years and I can vouch that for every update - the enemies are getting stronger, but so are we. It is the challenge of the game that drives us in gaming - 'god mode' is no fun. Move up to more powerful enemies and in short - 'Don't pet the probe, kill it.'
On a side note, I agree that there should be Heals Per Second and Damage-Absorbed Per Second as well (along with the associated accolades and titles). Especially since I prefer to play as a science captain.
No. DPS is not a medal to be shown off, it is a measure of the effectiveness of your build, in combination with your piloting skill and teamwork, in PvE maps. Whether it adds any more weight to the statement, I myself am at 85k, but I don't think it entitles me to anything special at all.
Not unless there are also titles for the best at healing, crowd control, and all the hybrids in between.
So in other words you want titles for being absolutely useless in-game. Got it.
And there's an example of what everyone is opposed to. Discrimination.
I respect the honest DPSers, but there are still people like the person I quoted who see everything as "DPS or GTFO". And they tend to be quite vocal.
dabelgrave gave a good point. Why only reward one single facet of the game and not others?
DPS titles are a bad idea as already stated several times in this thread. While it might be a way to get goals set up for some people, not everyone is really going to care. And those that don't decide to get that title will get bashed by the vocal epeen people for it, and the community as a whole, including the honest DPSers (who get a bad name thanks to the vocal epeen crowd who WANT to discriminate), will suffer because of it.
Rewarding someone for reaching a performance based goal would make more sense if it were tied to something valid in the Star Trek Universe.
I'm just riffing here - but maybe we get ranked by a scale similar to the series:
ensign
lieutenant
lt. commander
captain
or something like it... wait... OMG that's already in the game.
[style color="yellow"]Rewarding player who strive to maximize ONE aspect of the game is fairly sad. Much worse if you name it after a group who have tried their best to destroy a decent league so that they can maintain artificially enhanced scores. [/style]
Just my thought. And at the moment, it's winning in your poll.
I miss colored text in my posts. The new forums are so Vanilla.
You guys forget that the Great Mistake of delta rising, the hard fails on advanced queues, is finally getting rectified.
Let's take GtGA. It hasn't had real fail conditions, ever. Yet, people have been dropping out of that during the first wave at the drop off a hat. What makes you think they won't add "low DPS tag" to their personal list of reasons to bail out?
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
I'm a little on the fence about this. On one hand, World of Tanks has a mod that does something like this. If players have a terrible Kill/Death ratio their names are red. Like wise if their K/D is good they have green names. What tends to happen is if a Green player using this mod ends up on a team with Red players he will start trashing his teammates and ultimately commit suicide to leave the game. Granted this does not happen all the time but when it does it is very annoying. I'm worried that if a similar system would were added to STO we would get the same type of players. I saw it happen twice the past weekend when grinding Iconian marks. One of which saw our team member was in a Deridex, trashed him for having a horrible ship, then left us to die. I am worried that adding a system like this will only add to this problem.
On the other hand I can understand wanting to have something to works towards. What if instead of flashy titles forced on us we just had simple titles that we could choose to display once we unlocked. You knows the ones you choose under your name where Fleet Admiral and Missile Commander and whatever else there is. I think that would add something to strive for without adding the elitism.
After any STF or group mission, the team can vote for a single players name tag for 24 hours.
'Forum Weener'
'Wasted our time'
'Ranted about dps before he bailed'
'Annoying'
'clearly lacking skills, despite his EPIC gear'
'LOW DPS even though he said he was from DPS-Silver'
'Wasn't a team player'
Of course I'm just kidding. Such a system would be completely abused. And given that the OP's suggestion could be abused in the same way (hey, you got time with your Reculse to get me higher?), it's a non-starter.
oh someone wants titles for dps. how bout
5k - little epeen
10k - big peen
30k - very big peen
50k plus - you are a epeen
just be satisfied in you're own knowledge that you can build a very good starship and conquer all PvE which already have titles
Cap the amount of DPS that can be done.
Make tanks/healers/crowd control necessary.
Promote team work over DPS.
oooo this is the sto forums no sensible ideas allowed in here mate!
+5 to that tho
Sorry but this is Star Trek not Warcraft.
We need to move away from the "Dps is everything" design but hard role enforcement is the very opposite of progress.
I enjoy playing debuffer/crowd control science officers with a little bit of dps or tankiness, or dps engineers, or tank tacticals with crowd control.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I voted No. While I believe there should be an in-game measurement system for determining one's effectiveness (whether it be DPS, healing or tanking), I think it should be set to private by default. The system should be there to help players improve themselves, not to mark players publicly.
As for DPS elitism, I still believe it doesn't exist. I have never run across a high DPS'er who'd call people names or shame other players for their ineffectiveness. That has never happened to me even when I was new.
However, it seems to me that the people who are quick to call other people stupid, or tell that other people sucked are actually the underperformers. I PUG most of my runs and I always parse in ISA. Out of 8 ISA runs yesterday, 3 people called others stupid, called the team losers or bossed everyone in the team around. I can tell you that all of them had either been the cause of the failure or was the one being carried by the team. All 3 of them scored DPS numbers way too low for an ISA. That pattern was repeated in other STFs I have played over the months. I think DPS elitism is an illusion.
I for one will continue to PUG. Win or lose, I enjoy the randomness of it all. Winning a mission where the odds are stacked against you can be fun and more fulfilling than the quick wins from DPS channel runs. Don't get me wrong though, I also enjoy running with the DPS people. They usually have very good advice to offer and running with them allows me to refine my piloting and ship builds. They are a helpful and friendly group once you get to know them.
Cap the amount of DPS that can be done.
Make tanks/healers/crowd control necessary.
Promote team work over DPS.
I cant believe that amount of misinformation or ignorance in this post. You cannot deal high DPS without a certain degree of teamwork.
But if this were to happen, imagine how many complains will happen. Have you even guys even done the hardest elite? Because the mobs there hit hard, NPC abilities more potent and the closest thing/STF you got from needing support and tanks.
Except those who keep complaining haven't completed those hard elite STFS and would be the first one to whine about nerfing the level of difficulty. Nor do I have even see another poster supports increase of level of difficulty.
It would be the cycle of whining, make stuff harder but when it is harder they will whine back to nerf it.
I gave this a lot of though, and I voted yes, for the simple fact the titles would just be the beginning. I sau this as Cryptic can than use the titles to help group players with same level DPS when fighting in a STFs. No more rage quits, no more DPS channels, no more "DPSers vs everyone else."
there is nothing more satisfying than watching a Tricobalt device explode in a grav well and set of a chain warp core breach.
a bio-neural warhead pew pewing its little ap cannon as it flies into that grav well and detonates to set off that chain? I do realize that its just a FANCY tri-cobalt, but its that extra little pew pew pew that works for me
I think this would build the community, since people would have goals to achieve.
I don't know much about DPS, I just shoot torpedoes, but from what I gather, a team can help boost someone's DPS, so people could form these teams and sell the service to people who want to get the title. That's emergent content, that's a community. Or, people could give it away as a service like we do with base invites in NoP PS, that's a community too!
Lol. got a kick out this part. Spoken like a true ferengi!
there is nothing more satisfying than watching a Tricobalt device explode in a grav well and set of a chain warp core breach.
a bio-neural warhead pew pewing its little ap cannon as it flies into that grav well and detonates to set off that chain? I do realize that its just a FANCY tri-cobalt, but its that extra little pew pew pew that works for me
Have you tried the Vaadwaur cluster mine? It makes a nasty Bang.
Comments
First up is for everyone that is worried about being ridiculed. Haters, trolls, and elitists already exist in the game. Sit for long in sector space and you are bound to come across it. Yet if you check out the DPS Channels/League, you will notice that even people who can do over 100k dps not only are not hating on people dealing 10k or less - they are trying to help them (only if they want it of course) achieve a more powerful build.
'Hater's are going to hate' though, no matter what game it is. Play CoD, WoW, or any game that is played over the internet and you will find hater, trolls, and elitists. That just the way the internet is - full of haters, trolls, and elitists.
People can already see others dps anyway using a dps parser, why are people worried about what program is going to show it to them? Besides if it was built into the game, it would probably only show YOUR dps and not everyone's. Either way who cares if someone else knows your DPS. Every other online game on the market has something to track your effectiveness:
-fps games include rankings that show everything from kill/deaths to total # of bullets fired and accuracy
-online racing games have rankings and stats
-other MMORPGs also have DPS parsers as well - some even have rankings
-virtually every game that uses the internet tracks a players progress and stats
Second is in regards to what PvEs equals the dps 'gauge' (i.e. ISA vs Disconnected). DPS is DPS, i.e. Damage Per Second no matter what event it is in. The reason why Disconnected has a lower DPS is because you spend less of your total time in combat (remember, not firing equals 0 dps).
Finally, for those that say DPS should not matter I offer this thought. We all want a powerful ship/player, it is no fun dying. I have been playing STO for ~4 years and I can vouch that for every update - the enemies are getting stronger, but so are we. It is the challenge of the game that drives us in gaming - 'god mode' is no fun. Move up to more powerful enemies and in short - 'Don't pet the probe, kill it.'
On a side note, I agree that there should be Heals Per Second and Damage-Absorbed Per Second as well (along with the associated accolades and titles). Especially since I prefer to play as a science captain.
And there's an example of what everyone is opposed to. Discrimination.
I respect the honest DPSers, but there are still people like the person I quoted who see everything as "DPS or GTFO". And they tend to be quite vocal.
dabelgrave gave a good point. Why only reward one single facet of the game and not others?
DPS titles are a bad idea as already stated several times in this thread. While it might be a way to get goals set up for some people, not everyone is really going to care. And those that don't decide to get that title will get bashed by the vocal epeen people for it, and the community as a whole, including the honest DPSers (who get a bad name thanks to the vocal epeen crowd who WANT to discriminate), will suffer because of it.
I'm just riffing here - but maybe we get ranked by a scale similar to the series:
or something like it... wait... OMG that's already in the game.
[style color="yellow"]Rewarding player who strive to maximize ONE aspect of the game is fairly sad. Much worse if you name it after a group who have tried their best to destroy a decent league so that they can maintain artificially enhanced scores. [/style]
Just my thought. And at the moment, it's winning in your poll.
I miss colored text in my posts. The new forums are so Vanilla.
Let's take GtGA. It hasn't had real fail conditions, ever. Yet, people have been dropping out of that during the first wave at the drop off a hat. What makes you think they won't add "low DPS tag" to their personal list of reasons to bail out?
On the other hand I can understand wanting to have something to works towards. What if instead of flashy titles forced on us we just had simple titles that we could choose to display once we unlocked. You knows the ones you choose under your name where Fleet Admiral and Missile Commander and whatever else there is. I think that would add something to strive for without adding the elitism.
After any STF or group mission, the team can vote for a single players name tag for 24 hours.
'Forum Weener'
'Wasted our time'
'Ranted about dps before he bailed'
'Annoying'
'clearly lacking skills, despite his EPIC gear'
'LOW DPS even though he said he was from DPS-Silver'
'Wasn't a team player'
Of course I'm just kidding. Such a system would be completely abused. And given that the OP's suggestion could be abused in the same way (hey, you got time with your Reculse to get me higher?), it's a non-starter.
Cap the amount of DPS that can be done.
Make tanks/healers/crowd control necessary.
Promote team work over DPS.
oooo this is the sto forums no sensible ideas allowed in here mate!
+5 to that tho
I like your thought process.
Sorry but this is Star Trek not Warcraft.
We need to move away from the "Dps is everything" design but hard role enforcement is the very opposite of progress.
I enjoy playing debuffer/crowd control science officers with a little bit of dps or tankiness, or dps engineers, or tank tacticals with crowd control.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
My character Tsin'xing
I'm pretty secure with the size of my equipment.
They're giraffes.
As for DPS elitism, I still believe it doesn't exist. I have never run across a high DPS'er who'd call people names or shame other players for their ineffectiveness. That has never happened to me even when I was new.
However, it seems to me that the people who are quick to call other people stupid, or tell that other people sucked are actually the underperformers. I PUG most of my runs and I always parse in ISA. Out of 8 ISA runs yesterday, 3 people called others stupid, called the team losers or bossed everyone in the team around. I can tell you that all of them had either been the cause of the failure or was the one being carried by the team. All 3 of them scored DPS numbers way too low for an ISA. That pattern was repeated in other STFs I have played over the months. I think DPS elitism is an illusion.
I for one will continue to PUG. Win or lose, I enjoy the randomness of it all. Winning a mission where the odds are stacked against you can be fun and more fulfilling than the quick wins from DPS channel runs. Don't get me wrong though, I also enjoy running with the DPS people. They usually have very good advice to offer and running with them allows me to refine my piloting and ship builds. They are a helpful and friendly group once you get to know them.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
First good proposal in this topic!
I cant believe that amount of misinformation or ignorance in this post. You cannot deal high DPS without a certain degree of teamwork.
But if this were to happen, imagine how many complains will happen. Have you even guys even done the hardest elite? Because the mobs there hit hard, NPC abilities more potent and the closest thing/STF you got from needing support and tanks.
Except those who keep complaining haven't completed those hard elite STFS and would be the first one to whine about nerfing the level of difficulty. Nor do I have even see another poster supports increase of level of difficulty.
It would be the cycle of whining, make stuff harder but when it is harder they will whine back to nerf it.
Win win.
Lol. got a kick out this part. Spoken like a true ferengi!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
My character Tsin'xing
If it hits. On some larger ships I discoverd that the Vaadwaur and Breen Clusters won't actually hit some sides of some battleships.
I tested this against different types of battleship grade NPCs and noted the results in this bug thread.
http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1183132/vaadwaur-cluster-torpedo-odd-behavior