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Customization & Tailor restrictions – Role-Player’s perspective

jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
In the light of joejing's announcement of re-organizating the foot-wear in the Character tailor, I took the liberty to create a small take on the whole Tailor issues, as well as my perspective on Tailor-restrictions. Please keep it civil.

Also, prettier-formated version is available on my personal site, for easier reading, as it's long-wall of text, and makes it harder to read. Check HERE, if you want!
It has been discussed so many times – the Tailor, aka the customization tool of the Star Trek Online. The opinions on it vary, but I believe I speak for quite few people, when I say, that most of us want to be able to customize our characters as much as possible. Unfortunately, as it is now, there are huge restrictions placed onto it. In this article – I’m going to summarize, as to why this is bad – from my perspective, as an enthusiastic Role-player, who’s been RP’er for over 17 years. Please note, I only speak for myself, and do not represent opinions of anyone else, than myself. However, if anyone inclines to agree with anything said here – you’re very welcome to do so!

Why restrictions are bad?

First of all – when you want to portray a character, any character, you want to make sure that its’ design is eye-catching, unique in some way, so it captures the nature of the character, visually. After all, the visual design is the first thing others will notice, upon encounter, so it’s important! While the game itself offers wide-variety of assets, their restriction and unability to mix and match freely, limits their usage, and thus, limits potential combinations. That’s why it’s harder for us, to create a character, which doesn’t have a ‘twin’ on every corner of the galaxy. Granted, this is a game, with limited engine-capabilities – but I believe, with less emphasis placed on tailor restrictions, it’d be easier to create more unique characters. Mind you, creating an unique character is not only about adding some ‘cool’ piece. It comes down to many aspects. There are just few examples, to illustrate my point.

One aspect being denied to us in our (player, restricted) Tailor, is ‘face preset’ – which lets you set even such thing as facial-expression, of sorts. I saw some nicely looking grumpy/scowling faces, by usage of those. Klingon males have the scowling preset by default for example; female Klingons, for some odd reasons, don’t. There are not many face-presets available, from my little testing, but even so, there’s no reason to deny this to us, is there? People have expressed desire for having any sort of facial expressions, and this would cover it, for some of us. For me, surely would.
626OfBi.jpg
A nice example of groan-inducing NPC, with outfit we can’t mix & match.

Another example – It is also perfectly possible to use the Borg-implants on humanoid-shaped faces, without any jarring issues. Again, seen it first-hand, tested across the board. Why aren’t the Borg implants a costume unlock, after Lifetime-Subscription has been purchased? I’ve always wanted to create a crew (so yes, Bridge officers too), based on Liberated Borg-theme. And I can’t. It’s 25th century in STO, liberation is happening left & right, it’s not like Liberated Borg are any scarce, in the galaxy, across the Quadrants. And, the limitation of Liberated Borg Captains to just Klingon/Human/Romulan, based on faction? Why? Liberated Borg Unlock on Life-time Subscription should be just called ‘Liberated Borg’ and offer Alien-Gen customization. After all, currently “Liberated Borg” species Traits are all the same, no matter which ‘origin’ species we pick!

Hair restrictions, please no?

There’s no reason to lock hairstyles to any species. As long as the species are capable of growing hair on their heads, any should be accessible, for any species & gender. Again, this restriction is arbitrary and unnecessary.

Costume restrictions, my pet-peeve!

It is huge part of Tailor, costumes being divided into ‘Off-duty’, ‘Uniform’, ‘Rep armors’, each rep armor having its own sub-cathegory, unable to even mix with each other, ‘Club wear’, ‘Formal wear’ and recently added ‘Swim-wear’. It has been voiced many times, that such restrictions are not desirable, by people on the STO forum alike. It is my firm belief, that these restrictions are one of those, which people would love to see gone, or at least, leveraged… a lot.
11144793_10153399728171419_383502587154413625_o.jpg
Wouldn’t this be nice, if we could do this?

I can see why they’d restrict the ‘swim-wear’ to just some locations. However, as for the other cathegories – I’d remove ‘formal-wear’ & ‘club-wear’ cathegories entirely, and place them into ‘Off-duty’ slots. Roleplayers quite often, use outfits in other, than ‘original’ intent, wanting to make casual-shirts and stuff, as one example, for further enriching their own character designs. People should be able to use the belts, pants & upper-parts with any outfit, additionally, if someone wants to go bare-feeted, why not let them?

Likewise, it is entirely possible, within the game-engine, to let people put in, for example, upper-torso, as ‘Uniform’ cathegory, and ‘off-duty’ pants into their lower-part. Again, for some arbitrary reason, the developpers don’t let us do this under normal circumstances, and instead, we’re forced into one cathegory, per costume slot. I’ve seen this first-hand, there are no large issues, unless we’re talking clipping, but clipping issues are present across-the-board, and honestly, even so, it’s not broken feature, it’s working perfectly fine – another reason for me to shake my head, at the Tailor-restrictions.

If you want to see a gallore of groan-inducing NPCs’ which we, players can’t create.. just head to Club 47 in Earth Space Dock. One of reasons I don’t go there, personally.

But.. but.. Trek CANON would be broken!

I’ll address this straight out – As character artist joejing mentioned & addressed my post recently, that there are players, who are keen on Trek-canon and they want to keep this for them. First of all – unrestricting things doesn’t steal the option from these fans, to create purely canon-looking characters. They can still stick to the canon, if that’s what they want. This would merely enable wider-variety of assets to those, who want to get a hand on free-hand creating & being creative. Other players should not be restricted from option of creating, because of these players, though.

Not to mention kind-of-oddity – there are ships playable by players, which are absolute-nonsense from the canon standpoint. No humanoid would be able to fly Tholian ships, for example. Or Undine ships, which are alive. Don’t take possibilities from us; when rather canon-jarring issues are already present in the game.

Unavailable outfits. ARGH!

There are also many outfits, which are unavailable to the player-base. I’ll go onto a rant here – as we see NPCs flanting outfits & combinations we cannot make on our characters. Why is this bad? First of all – if you restrict your players so badly, posting such NPCs around is as if you wanted to rub it into our faces, that we can’t create that & that unique look, with our characters. I’m not trying to be mean – but I’d say, this is pretty silly, let alone poor advertisement, as such NPCs/in-game pictures sported some of the combinations impossible for the players. And, in my opinion, it’s the players, who create the environment we walk in, not the NPCs. Sure, I’ll stop and glare at the ‘super-fancy’ NPC, but mostly only because of reason ‘I want to be able to create something like this’, rather than returning to the place, because of the NPC being super-cool, OMAGAWD >_<

There are also outfits, only available to say, specific Bridge officers. Like, the Borg-suit, or pieces unique to Tovan (Die Tovan, plz). Why? Again, let people create. Appreciate that your game has an artistic influence over some of us, and let us utilize it. It’s in a way, compliment to the in-game assets the developpers have created, therefore, compliment for the game-devs & the artists too. But, have they created them for us? If we are so limited in using them? Again, not trying to insult. Merely, brainstorming.

I’ve always wanted to use the Borg-body as a concept for my character, for example; who is more Borg than human. And, “legally”, I can’t. Not unless I resort to tricks.

10348665_10152462189291419_2007849799014092057_o.jpg
The Borg-body suits do exist in game. Seen on NPC’s & Borg Boff!

Character-consistency, damnit!

There are also parts of the costumes, which should not be unusable in some cathegories. For example – as a Roleplayer or even, character-designer – A shining example of this – My character has some Borg implants, clearly visible; and it’s needed, that these pieces are constant, across the board, as the implants aren’t supposed to just disappear, because in-game terms, I wear a costume, which doesn’t let me pick that option. The 7 of 9 hand is not useable in some costume cathegories, and it flat out disappears. That creates, at least for me, aggrivating in-character inconsistencies.

I’m quite sure that this can be applied to other costume-parts; across the board, but my example, I believe, illustrates quite simply, and well, what I mean. I’d say the kit-pieces costumes would be another good example, as to what should be useable in any costume-slot, no matter if it’s ‘uniform’ or ‘off-duty’ slot.

Full-body skins, pretty please?

Again, a feature desired, as observed on the STO forums, by quite few people. There are some available, but in limited capacity. Liberated Borg have been at loss for years though. Add that dissatisfaction at the top of the fact we can’t even use the Full-exoplating suit, which *is* available in the game, as shown by our Liberated Borg bridge officers and there’s a mild… slightly big disappointment right there. Although, I did notice, that when using bare-feet, in an off-duty slot, has, instead of ‘skin’ option, ‘Borg-feet’ even for our Captains. Why isn’t the same doable with the skin, body-wise/torso as well, showing off the Borg-suit, instead of skin? I personally think that’d be cool & would use it, especially with the newly released Aloha shirts.

Poor folks who have Alien-Gen characters are totally at loss with the full-body skins, as their possibilities in that capacity is also very limited. And, I feel, that sometimes, unique, Alien-Gen characters, are one of the most interesting created, running around. It’s shame, and I feel this too, would be nice, if it was addressed.

It’s nice they have introduced the full-body skins for Klingons, Remans & Talaxians though, so I’m hoping they’ll consider this, both for the Alien-Gen characters, as well as others, such as Liberated Borg too.

But.. how can we market & sell this?

It often comes down to money, as sad as this reality is. But, how can the devs market this? Quite easily. By offering no-restrictions or even less waaay less restrictions, by letting us mix and match as we please, it has actual value to purchase more costume slots. I know I did purchase at least 36 costume slots in last month. I’m a person of creativity, enjoying to fiddle with my character and her concept, to create as accurate portrayal of what I envisioned my character to be, and it’s work of passion and love, quite time-consuming, but, in a very pleasant way. I am of belief, that I’m not alone in this thinking. Again, imploring on the game-devs, to consider this.

This free-hand mixing & matching of the costumes could easily be even a gold-sub feature, or a C-store unlock. Speaking of C-store unlocks – even C-Store playable species unlocks would be made into more valuable, if their assets, once purchased, would be available to Alien-Gen characters. The possibilities are huge.

Bottomline, howgh?

This has been onto a long rant. But this is my long-standing pet-peeve. There’s some re-organizing happening with the lower-parts of the costumes in the works right now, so I’m hoping this will reach the developpers, as something to take into consideration. After all – it’s our game too, and we want to see it thrive and flourish, and let every player to find what they want to find, in the game. Thank you for your time!
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

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Comments

  • daboholicdaboholic Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    Interesting and well written. You get two thumbs up from me for more customization options, but only if you add Trill to the list of species in need of full body skins :p
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    daboholic wrote: »
    Interesting and well written. You get two thumbs up from me for more customization options, but only if you add Trill to the list of species in need of full body skins :p
    Aiii, sorry - I thought Trills already had them, I'm quite sure I've seen Trills sporting the spots... very down their bodies on Risa this year. Of course, the full-body skins are for whoever would need them. ;)

    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • daboholicdaboholic Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Haha, no worries, Trill do have spots going down their body but it's messy.

    There are gaps, such as the lower leg from just below the knee down. Back at release you never saw that part of the leg due to boots being the only footwear available.

    Now, with the addition of lower boots and bare feet you can see where the spots end prematurely rather than going all the way down to the feet.

    I could go on more, as the overall state of Trill spots is one of my little in-game pet peeves, but I'd rather not turn your excellent thread into a "What's wrong with Trill spots campaign" :D
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    I'm only a soft role-player (that is, I like to give my characters backstory, but I don't actively role-play), but I can strongly agree with this... I'm typing this as I think, so forgive me if it's somewhat disjointed.

    The Uniform/Off-Duty divide is only made worse by the division between Captain and Bridge Officers - sometimes even between male and female Bridge Officers of the same species. Take the Mercenary outfit for example; first the belt 3 and top were made available to Captains under Uniform and male Bridge Officers, now the 1, 2, and 4 belts are... but none of the options are available to female Bridge Officers. But why shouldn't, for example, one of my Elisa Flores be able to wear a 'Formal' belt with her otherwise Odyssey uniform - Troi and Ro wore headbands, Worf wore his baldric, Ro also wore her earring, those things seem to be up to Captain's discretion in the shows, so why not also in the game?

    And arbitrary faction restrictions - okay, limiting the 7 of 9 parts to females is one thing, but considering that we encounter Liberated Borg Klingons and Romulans both (as well as still-Collective ones), it's somewhat unfair that only certain races can access them... even though there's overlap - a Fed Female Andorian can, a KDF Female Andorian Marauder can, a Fed Female Klingon can... but not a KDF Female Klingon... It's a rather senseless distinction. Not that all gender distinctions are sensible either; KDF males can wear a sleeveless top, the 'Leather Vest', but females are limited only to the 'Armored' and 'Armored -cut out' "corsets" and personally, I just haven't been able to see a reason for it...

    I know a strong argument for restrictions has been clipping issues and players that would deliberately create garishly colored and badly clipping outfits solely to troll other players... but STO is five years old - I think by this point it's time to trust in the players' desire for the best character appearances possible and perhaps most importantly to trust in the belief that we're, for the most part, here for love of the material and that the vast majority of us would do the right thing.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • bloodyrizbloodyriz Member Posts: 1,756 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    ...I know a strong argument for restrictions has been clipping issues and players that would deliberately create garishly colored and badly clipping outfits solely to troll other players... but STO is five years old - I think by this point it's time to trust in the players' desire for the best character appearances possible and perhaps most importantly to trust in the belief that we're, for the most part, here for love of the material and that the vast majority of us would do the right thing.

    Even if there are players who seek simply to troll, the rest of us should be able to be adult and simply ignore them.
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  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    The thread "Can Players Wear This" had a series of pictures from the Delta Rising story arc that reminded me of something else to consider; 'time-locked' costumes like the TNG 25th Anniversary sash for Federation characters or the Kobali uniform that was only available during the STO 5th Anniversary event. I don't know about anyone else, but those make me feel as if I'm being punished for not being a player until after the TNG 25th or for not being able to play during the STO 5th due to other considerations.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    The thread "Can Players Wear This" had a series of pictures from the Delta Rising story arc that reminded me of something else to consider; 'time-locked' costumes like the TNG 25th Anniversary sash for Federation characters or the Kobali uniform that was only available during the STO 5th Anniversary event. I don't know about anyone else, but those make me feel as if I'm being punished for not being a player until after the TNG 25th or for not being able to play during the STO 5th due to other considerations.
    That is another good example. I've always wanted the TNG Worf-sash, since late 2013, when I began playing the game, again, surprisingly, for in-character reasons. I'd pay even up to 1k Zen for that. Having possibilities to obtain things, should be encouraged. Players should not be permanently locked out of obtaining things, like aesthetic/artistic assets.

    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • amayakitsuneamayakitsune Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    I can agree with pretty much all of this... more variations and less restriction in the tailor would be fantastic.
    7NGGeUP.png

  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I know a strong argument for restrictions has been clipping issues and players that would deliberately create garishly colored and badly clipping outfits solely to troll other players... but STO is five years old - I think by this point it's time to trust in the players' desire for the best character appearances possible and perhaps most importantly to trust in the belief that we're, for the most part, here for love of the material and that the vast majority of us would do the right thing.

    In real life when someone goes out it public in some ridiculous clown suit, people will point and laugh. Maybe not to their face, but behind their back. What they don't do is suggest that's a "strong argument" for letting some authority inspect everyone's wardrobe and regulate who's allowed to wear what, in what colors and what combinations.

    And I don't understand why it should be any different in videogames.
  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    I know a strong argument for restrictions has been clipping issues and players that would deliberately create garishly colored and badly clipping outfits solely to troll other players... but STO is five years old - I think by this point it's time to trust in the players' desire for the best character appearances possible and perhaps most importantly to trust in the belief that we're, for the most part, here for love of the material and that the vast majority of us would do the right thing.

    In real life when someone goes out it public in some ridiculous clown suit, people will point and laugh. Maybe not to their face, but behind their back. What they don't do is suggest that's a "strong argument" for letting some authority inspect everyone's wardrobe and regulate who's allowed to wear what, in what colors and what combinations.

    And I don't understand why it should be any different in videogames.

    It seems like people keep taking that part of my post out of context and misinterpreting it - let me be blunt; it is not pro-restrictions, I am not pro-restrictions.

    "it's time to trust in the players' desire for the best character appearances possible" and "the vast majority of us would do the right thing."

    Those are the key points of the statement, not the reference to how clipping and trolling has been used as an argument in favor of restrictions. They are a counter-argument against that. They are an argument that most players would avoid clipping when possible because we want to look our best, even in the form of video game characters, and that we would do the right thing and not be trolls because we're here to enjoy a game based on a franchise we love.

    I am not supporting the pro-restrictions argument, merely acknowledging it and the fact that it has been argued strongly over the years. I believe that it's time, however, has passed and restrictions such as that of Uniform/Off-Duty/Formal need to be removed and players allowed to use their own judgement in their place.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I am not supporting the pro-restrictions argument, merely acknowledging it and the fact that it has been argued strongly over the years. I believe that it's time, however, has passed and restrictions such as that of Uniform/Off-Duty/Formal need to be removed and players allowed to use their own judgement in their place.

    Yes, but arguing about something strongly doesn't mean they have a strong argument. Their argument is in fact extremely weak, based almost entirely on "I don't like it." It only stands because whoever's in charge of that aspect of the game agrees with them.

    But in any case, my response was directed at the argument itself. If you are against it, then I agree with you.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    My Vorta would rock a suit rock harder than ten men but the restrictions stop her. I would I love for them to be gone? Really?

    No, or at least not fully. I do think there should be some lifting and reworking of the restrictions (and based off the tribble patch notes someone agrees) but flat out 100% freedom is a no from me.
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    My Vorta would rock a suit rock harder than ten men but the restrictions stop her. I would I love for them to be gone? Really?

    No, or at least not fully. I do think there should be some lifting and reworking of the restrictions (and based off the tribble patch notes someone agrees) but flat out 100% freedom is a no from me.
    I always believed that someone else's preference in their aesthetics, should not be a deciding factor on what others have. Ie. the 100% freedom is not hurting anyone, only people, who, for some reason, want to dictate how characters of others (So not their own characters) are allowed to look like. And that approach is.. entitled, and wrong. Imho.

    My point is, do not take freedom of others, or the possibility of creating, because you don't want to see something on characters of others. Again, it's highly unfair.

    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    My Vorta would rock a suit rock harder than ten men but the restrictions stop her. I would I love for them to be gone? Really?

    No, or at least not fully. I do think there should be some lifting and reworking of the restrictions (and based off the tribble patch notes someone agrees) but flat out 100% freedom is a no from me.
    I always believed that someone else's preference in their aesthetics, should not be a deciding factor on what others have. Ie. the 100% freedom is not hurting anyone, only people, who, for some reason, want to dictate how characters of others (So not their own characters) are allowed to look like. And that approach is.. entitled, and wrong. Imho.

    My point is, do not take freedom of others, or the possibility of creating, because you don't want to see something on characters of others. Again, it's highly unfair.

    Why do CBS seem to be against a t6 Connie? It goes against the aesthetics of a Starfleet in the year 2409.

    If this was just some no name space game then 100% freedom would be ok but STO is not that. You beam down to ESD for the first time and everyone looking like they just came off the set of Firefly and while you may be ok with that Trek fans (not gamers) might not be. Star Trek has an art style that is pretty well known, even to people who might have never seen a season of any Trek, going against that is a quick way to lose Trek fans.

    The world has a language, NPCs, maps, ships, weapons, and more all speak a tongue. Giving players free rein to do whatever they want would be jarring against the background of the world.
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    My Vorta would rock a suit rock harder than ten men but the restrictions stop her. I would I love for them to be gone? Really?

    No, or at least not fully. I do think there should be some lifting and reworking of the restrictions (and based off the tribble patch notes someone agrees) but flat out 100% freedom is a no from me.
    I always believed that someone else's preference in their aesthetics, should not be a deciding factor on what others have. Ie. the 100% freedom is not hurting anyone, only people, who, for some reason, want to dictate how characters of others (So not their own characters) are allowed to look like. And that approach is.. entitled, and wrong. Imho.

    My point is, do not take freedom of others, or the possibility of creating, because you don't want to see something on characters of others. Again, it's highly unfair.

    Why do CBS seem to be against a t6 Connie? It goes against the aesthetics of a Starfleet in the year 2409.

    If this was just some no name space game then 100% freedom would be ok but STO is not that. You beam down to ESD for the first time and everyone looking like they just came off the set of Firefly and while you may be ok with that Trek fans (not gamers) might not be. Star Trek has an art style that is pretty well known, even to people who might have never seen a season of any Trek, going against that is a quick way to lose Trek fans.

    The world has a language, NPCs, maps, ships, weapons, and more all speak a tongue. Giving players free rein to do whatever they want would be jarring against the background of the world.

    And yet, you don't see a problem with players flying ships, they'd, in 'canon' / Trek not be able to fly? It's counter-argument, right there, and STO is in a grand conflict. I mean, tell me that any Starfleet personnel would be able to obtain and fly an unaltered Tholian ship? Or Undine ship? That argument you're having is, in that regard, only as valid as it gets - not at all. You'd have to remove the jarring visualities and realities of the game. Guess what. They won't - these ships are source of income for the game.

    As would be unrestricting majority of the pieces, letting people mix & match the way they want - as I pointed out in my OP; as it'd be more valuable to purchase more costume slots, costumes, and possibly even unlockable species, if their pieces were added to Alien-Gen.

    Aesthetics are eye of the beholder. We all have our preferences. The only restrictions I comprehend, to some degree, is not letting wear people bikini everywhere, due to obvious PG rating. But, restricting for example, Odyssey belts to just uniform slot? Or the pants? When, as a standalone piece, they can provide snazzy pants for other costume combinations? Not letting me use the Borg implants on my characters, regardless of species, after purchasing LTS, when the 'Liberated Borg' of each faction is basicly the same, and their visuals of Human, Klingon and Romulan,, respectively, are purely cosmetic, because they share the same traits, instead of traits of their 'origin species'? I could go on, ad infinity.

    Or not letting people use the wide variety of combinations, otherwise seen in the game, being de-facto rubbed into our faces? It's unnecessary, wasteful, and regrettable.
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
    "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9] 
    "Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy

    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    You said so yourself. We are in a grand conflict and those ships are altered. We would not be able to fly them if that was not the case. Also I'm not pushing for canon. I'm pushing for the aesthetics of Star Trek.

    And sure, freeform choices of clothes would sell like hotcakes but I don't think we need to be giving Cryptic more ideas how to get money out of us. They are pretty well trained in that art.

    Aesthetics is not just in the eye of beholder. Not 100% sure if I can post this so I will just say google "how to recognize the artists of paintings". Letting players do whatever they want would be like slamming all of those great styles of art in one big blob of color.
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    You said so yourself. We are in a grand conflict and those ships are altered. We would not be able to fly them if that was not the case. Also I'm not pushing for canon. I'm pushing for the aesthetics of Star Trek.

    And sure, freeform choices of clothes would sell like hotcakes but I don't think we need to be giving Cryptic more ideas how to get money out of us. They are pretty well trained in that art.

    Aesthetics is not just in the eye of beholder. Not 100% sure if I can post this so I will just say google "how to recognize the artists of paintings". Letting players do whatever they want would be like slamming all of those great styles of art in one big blob of color.
    I'm sorry, but I don't agree. Policing what outfits people can wear is just.. something I can't get behind - only reasonable pieces, like bikini, are somewhat comprehensible, that they shouldn't be everywhere - and even so, I personally wouldn't be offended, as long as *I* wasn't forced to wear them.

    I'd happily spend more money, for more creative outlets & possibilities, personally. However, in the spirit of the topic, this is a discussion, for people to express how they feel - I offered counter-arguments to you, as something to consider, rather than enforce, as did you, towards my arguments. So moving on, agreeing to disagree - as I don't believe I can get behind your view personally. I hope that's alright; don't want to clog this too much.
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

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  • turbomagnusturbomagnus Member Posts: 3,479 Arc User
    There's another thing to take into account - the color palettes.

    It's something I found myself thinking about earlier today when playing my KDF-Rom 'Hirogen' Alien; one of the color options for the Hirogen armor visuals is slashes across the armor and since it's the Summer Event I thought about some nice jungle green for Risa... Except it wasn't an option, only dirty subdued greens. The seperate palettes, with the bright vibrant colors restricted to Starfleet and allied characters and the KDF and allied characters limited to subdued and murky shades, doesn't seem right to me. Why shouldn't a Klingon (or Nausicaan or Gorn, etc...) be allowed bright colors? Even in the real world, militaries have used Dazzle Camoflauge in the past consisting of bright colors and shapes to distract and fool the eyes, while in the animal kingdom it's almost a rule that 'colorful means dangerous' when so many animals use bright colors as warning to potential predators "Don't touch!". How many of us have heard that old rhyme "Red touches black, you're okay, Jack. Red touches yellow, you're a dead fellow." to help us tell the difference between a venomous snake and it's harmless look-alike? There's no concealing camoflauge in the game, outfit colors have no effect on your stealth, so it's not like World War One where the French's bright red pants made them such an easy target. It makes as much sense as anything that there would be those KDF warriors that would want to wear colors that make them easily identifable for one of the same reasons that knights in Human history wore heraldry or that other forms of soldiers carried 'the colors' into battle; to inspire allies with their presence and to warn enemies of who they are facing and what they are capable of.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." -- Q, TNG: "Q-Who?"
    ^Words that every player should keep in mind, especially whenever there's a problem with the game...
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    There's another thing to take into account - the color palettes.

    It's something I found myself thinking about earlier today when playing my KDF-Rom 'Hirogen' Alien; one of the color options for the Hirogen armor visuals is slashes across the armor and since it's the Summer Event I thought about some nice jungle green for Risa... Except it wasn't an option, only dirty subdued greens. The seperate palettes, with the bright vibrant colors restricted to Starfleet and allied characters and the KDF and allied characters limited to subdued and murky shades, doesn't seem right to me. Why shouldn't a Klingon (or Nausicaan or Gorn, etc...) be allowed bright colors? Even in the real world, militaries have used Dazzle Camoflauge in the past consisting of bright colors and shapes to distract and fool the eyes, while in the animal kingdom it's almost a rule that 'colorful means dangerous' when so many animals use bright colors as warning to potential predators "Don't touch!". How many of us have heard that old rhyme "Red touches black, you're okay, Jack. Red touches yellow, you're a dead fellow." to help us tell the difference between a venomous snake and it's harmless look-alike? There's no concealing camoflauge in the game, outfit colors have no effect on your stealth, so it's not like World War One where the French's bright red pants made them such an easy target. It makes as much sense as anything that there would be those KDF warriors that would want to wear colors that make them easily identifable for one of the same reasons that knights in Human history wore heraldry or that other forms of soldiers carried 'the colors' into battle; to inspire allies with their presence and to warn enemies of who they are facing and what they are capable of.

    Another good point, which should've been addressed by my OP. The 'lights' or any color flavors shouldn't be faction locked. I've wanted to use red-lights on my Fed too, and couldn't. It's okayish to restrict faction-uniforms, to specific faction, but color-palettes? Again. Arbitrary, unnecessary. I am with you, 100%.
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

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  • bloodyrizbloodyriz Member Posts: 1,756 Arc User
    I hear ya on the options. I want em too, like this suit...

    want001.png

    I want it very much and do not see a single reason why we cannot have it.
    signature.png
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  • jexsamxjexsamx Member Posts: 2,797 Arc User
    I disagree with 100% freedom for all on the grounds that it invalidates any roleplaying value in race selection at chargen. This, however, should not apply to "alien" characters - that is, characters rolled as generic Alien at chargen. Liberated Borg Humans should not have access to Nausicaan parts, Andorians should not have Vulcan ears, etc. If you intent to roll a hybrid, roll "Alien" and design accordingly.

    Further, I would not want to see any Lifer or Vet rewards fully unlocked for those who have not earned or unlocked them. The same should hold true for limited-run costumes like Worf's early TNG sash or the Kobali uniform. Give more oportunities to unlock them, certainly, but simply opening the floodgates destroys any novelty they have. For those who have these items, they should be able to use them as freely as any other costume piece. Lifers would be able to create things exactly like in Jo's example including all the borg bits, for instance, by simply rolling an Alien. Rolling Lib. Borg Human would see the head ridges restricted, however.

    In short, I agree that restrictions can and should be relaxed by an order of magnitude, but should not be eliminated, as some restrictions in and of themselves have roleplay value.
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    jexsamx wrote: »
    I disagree with 100% freedom for all on the grounds that it invalidates any roleplaying value in race selection at chargen. This, however, should not apply to "alien" characters - that is, characters rolled as generic Alien at chargen. Liberated Borg Humans should not have access to Nausicaan parts, Andorians should not have Vulcan ears, etc. If you intent to roll a hybrid, roll "Alien" and design accordingly.

    Further, I would not want to see any Lifer or Vet rewards fully unlocked for those who have not earned or unlocked them. The same should hold true for limited-run costumes like Worf's early TNG sash or the Kobali uniform. Give more oportunities to unlock them, certainly, but simply opening the floodgates destroys any novelty they have. For those who have these items, they should be able to use them as freely as any other costume piece. Lifers would be able to create things exactly like in Jo's example including all the borg bits, for instance, by simply rolling an Alien. Rolling Lib. Borg Human would see the head ridges restricted, however.

    In short, I agree that restrictions can and should be relaxed by an order of magnitude, but should not be eliminated, as some restrictions in and of themselves have roleplay value.
    Yes, I'm in agreement to not give ie. Klingons access to Caitian pieces. All within reason, of course. Hah. I thought that was clear. As species should keep their biological distinctiveness, unless it's Alien-Gen character. Thank you for bringing this up, that might've been a bit unclear on my part, so my apologies. Tried to encompass the most major issues in my OP and seemingly, some things were not as clear as I'd wish them to be. <3

    This ia mainly for the costume bits, to be allowed to mix & match. So, top-pieces, pants, boots, kit-pieces, and when unlocked through legit purchase of Lifetime Subscription, Borg implants, to any character - so yes, our Bridge crew too. Hopefully this clears it up. Thank you for your input @jexsamx!

    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

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  • tinyfistedtinyfisted Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    The only restrictions I comprehend, to some degree, is not letting wear people bikini everywhere, due to obvious PG rating.

    To some degree, but while Orion Slave Girl outfits and the Mirror Universe female top are possible, _in the uniform slot, no less_, the restriction stops making much sense.

    Speaking of Orions, I have one more horse in this race, that I discovered only yesterday. You know the mission Coliseum?. There's a point in the mission where you go from very cold weather to very hot weather. RP-wise, you definitely don't have a change of clothes. So stripping down to the Risian tank top makes sense. My fed (andorian) was able to do it. Looks like my Orion may not, since she can't seem to pick the tank top in off-duty. I don't know if this is a _new_ restriction or not.

    Not to mention I still can't wear Orion sandals or even heels of _any_ kind with a the one skirt (leather) available to KDF in any category. Only fed on-duty has good shoe options (and ironically, the best off-duty wear is _also_ only findable in fed on-duty).

    Cryptic, please please please stick everything in two categories (three, tops), on duty, off duty, (and beach, maybe), then let _everything_ that's even remotely suitable (like accessories) for a category be cross-faction accessible if you've bought the unlock.

    I'd even volunteer to do it _for_ you if it were possible to do remotely. I have loads of time on my hands this summer. (I know it can't happen outside of staff, but I'm not kidding. I'd do it if it were possible. In a frickin' heartbeat. That's how badly I want this.)
    86B6EC45459D17DB8AE6CD5F51C13A90CDC00A85
  • tinyfistedtinyfisted Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    tinyfisted wrote: »
    Looks like my Orion may not, since she can't seem to pick the tank top in off-duty. I don't know if this is a _new_ restriction or not.

    *sigh* Heh, never mind on this bit, I found it. It was under 'bare chest', of course. *rolls eyes* The rest, though, stands. Sweet sugar, I want good heeled boots/shoes.
    86B6EC45459D17DB8AE6CD5F51C13A90CDC00A85
  • denizyurukdenizyuruk Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    I'm with you,Jan. You know it. I'd like that the devs can have the time to read this. To hear us.
    18416789043_5ed8d070e7_b.jpg
  • giannicampanellagiannicampanella Member Posts: 424 Arc User
    Liberate the color palette. This is the main obstruction to reasonable customization. We can't even get canon colors for TOS uniforms.
    Greenbird
  • wanghunglo42wanghunglo42 Member Posts: 170 Arc User
    I see people in swim wear, but off Risa. How are they doing this? Exploiting a glitch? How is it done?

    "As with all living things, each according to his gifts."
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Why do CBS seem to be against a t6 Connie? It goes against the aesthetics of a Starfleet in the year 2409.

    Because someone in the licencing department doesn't like it. There are several other T5-6 ships from the 23rd and even 22nd century in the game.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Why do CBS seem to be against a t6 Connie? It goes against the aesthetics of a Starfleet in the year 2409.

    Because someone in the licencing department doesn't like it. There are several other T5-6 ships from the 23rd and even 22nd century in the game.

    Not many from Starfleet? Also you want me to believe that someone hates the Connie so much that they would turn down the pure hand over fist levels of cash an endgame Connie would bring in?
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Why do CBS seem to be against a t6 Connie? It goes against the aesthetics of a Starfleet in the year 2409.

    Because someone in the licencing department doesn't like it. There are several other T5-6 ships from the 23rd and even 22nd century in the game.

    Not many from Starfleet? Also you want me to believe that someone hates the Connie so much that they would turn down the pure hand over fist levels of cash an endgame Connie would bring in?

    At least the Excelsior, the Kumari and the D'Kyr. Also the Romulan T'Varo. Maybe others I can't remember. I can't pretend to know why the Constitution is singled out, but it is.
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