The Iconian in the Tau Dewan archieve footage

mustrumridcully0 · June 2015

The final new Romulus reputation mission contains footage of the past.

I am not certain, but it looks to me as if the material from 200,000 years ago might be the time of the rebellion against the Iconians, the footage 50,000 years later is the Dewans recovering the Iconian gateway.

An interesting detail I noticed is that it looks as if the Iconians back then weren't quite a as "air and darkness" like as they are today - because the Iconian in that footage seems to walk around and is also falling down for a moment. Is it actually so that the Iconians were more much more "regular" humanoids than they are now? What changed? Evolution? Genetic Engineering? Freak Accident?

Or is it just an art upgrade?

gaevsman · June 2015

I too think that the iconians were simplier then, not so "evolved", more like humanoids 200.000 years ago.

arachnaas · June 2015

The iconinas were much more normal looking once upon a time. Grey skin, non glowing eyes, and a torso without a hole in the chest.

After the war they became what they are now.

flash525 · June 2015

I doubt anyone truly knows, though they had their status of being the Demons of Air and Darkness from their 200,000 years ago war. I doubt the typical humanoid alien would gain that status unless there was more to them.

Is it not possible that the aliens we see in these videos aren't more servitor races?

angrytarg · June 2015

I'm guessing they didn't decide on the Iconian character design back then.

farmallm · June 2015

Also if you did the Dyson Rep. Nelon the Voth told more about it. That something bad happened and forced them into subspace. All that energy ripping into their bodies could have changed them into what we have now.

duncanidaho11 · June 2015

flash525 wrote: »

I doubt anyone truly knows,

No (its fiction) but its very, very, very likely that the Iconians were once much more organic humanoids. The herald (very organic humanoids) are a closely related species. Unless you want to try to make the case that they both evolved from non-corporeal space demons (which runs against the lemarkian progression of the ST universe) then the most likely situation is that they both evolved from something more Herald like (the ancestral form) rather than modern iconian (the derived form.)

f9thretxc · June 2015

I don't know why, but I thought It was the Elachi in that final scene. I'll have to hurry up and level one of my alts now to re-view it.

xiaoping88 · June 2015

farmallm wrote: »

Also if you did the Dyson Rep. Nelon the Voth told more about it. That something bad happened and forced them into subspace. All that energy ripping into their bodies could have changed them into what we have now.

The Solanae were forced into Subspace, not their Iconian masters.

The Iconians may have evolved over time, trough some sort of tempering/effort or maybe even exposure to the Galactic Barrier.
Some story blog about the Iconians from a few months back explicitly stated that they "passed the barrier and left the galaxy".

Maybe that was a hint.

Edit:

Here it is:

There are rumors that when the Iconians left the Solanae sphere, their destination was the Andromeda galaxy. If so, they have the ability to escape the Galactic Barrier.

Contact with the barrier has been known to give mere mortals almost god-like power. What terrible wonders can a race that can cross it at will be capable of?

jam3s1701 · June 2015

xiaoping88 wrote: »

The Solanae were forced into Subspace, not their Iconian masters.

The Iconians may have evolved over time, trough some sort of tempering/effort or maybe even exposure to the Galactic Barrier.
Some story blog about the Iconians from a few months back explicitly stated that they "passed the barrier and left the galaxy".

Maybe that was a hint.

Edit:

Here it is:

all I know is we haven't seen the 3rd iconian yet. . .

and. . . .

This is not their true form ((or at least not the form from 200.000 years ago))

xiaoping88 · June 2015

jam3s1701 wrote: »

all I know is we haven't seen the 3rd iconian yet. . .

and. . . .

This is not their true form ((or at least not the form from 200.000 years ago))

Well, they come in all colors now.

farmallm · June 2015

xiaoping88 wrote: »

The Solanae were forced into Subspace, not their Iconian masters.

The Iconians may have evolved over time, trough some sort of tempering/effort or maybe even exposure to the Galactic Barrier.
Some story blog about the Iconians from a few months back explicitly stated that they "passed the barrier and left the galaxy".

Maybe that was a hint.

Edit:

Here it is:

It was stated they escaped to the spheres. And stayed there at least for some amount of time. So the disaster could still effected them. Plus when the Enterprise encounter the barrier. Gary didn't changed, just got "god like" powers.

Intelligence indicates that the Iconians' numbers are few. It may be that only a handful of them escaped the orbital bombardment of their worlds 200,000 years ago. Recovered recordings from New Romulus show us Iconians escaping through the gateway there. We know from data from the Solanae and Jenolan spheres that the Iconians who survived the attack escaped to these spheres before departing.

Here is the episode where the ship encountered the barrier.
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Where_No_Man_Has_Gone_Before_%28episode%29

anodynes · June 2015

farmallm wrote: »

It was stated they escaped to the spheres. And stayed there at least for some amount of time. So the disaster could still effected them. Plus when the Enterprise encounter the barrier. Gary didn't changed, just got "god like" powers.

Intelligence indicates that the Iconians' numbers are few. It may be that only a handful of them escaped the orbital bombardment of their worlds 200,000 years ago. Recovered recordings from New Romulus show us Iconians escaping through the gateway there. We know from data from the Solanae and Jenolan spheres that the Iconians who survived the attack escaped to these spheres before departing.

I have to wonder if there's even anything to that crossing the Galactic Barrier thing when done through a subspace shortcut. Your character, your away team and Sela all cross it the same way in Uneasy Allies and none of you have any visible side effects. It doesn't even appear to be any rougher of a ride than any other gateway journey.

thunderfoot · June 2015

200,000 years is a very long time from one person's perspective. In the area of evolutionary pressures, it is but an eyeblink. I doubt we are seeing what is the Iconians' original natural form in STO. It is entirely possible they modified their own DNA and cellular structure once they achieved the ability to do so.

In the TNG episode, The Chase, we met a holographic image of a Preserver. Who bore a remarkable resemblance to Humans, tlh'Ingan and Rihannsu. The Iconians presented in STO are bipedal humanoids in structure but any resemblance to others ends there.

The Chase is one of the better TNG episodes. I saw this thread earlier and went and Netflixed it because of the posts in this thread. I then watched Contagion. I want to watch the TNG episode with the Bluegills in it but I cannot remember which one it is.

warpangel · June 2015

Maybe the glowy exterior of the Iconians is battle armor?

And maybe we'll get to wear it after winning the war? :cool:

farmallm · June 2015

warpangel wrote: »

Maybe the glowy exterior of the Iconians is battle armor?

And maybe we'll get to wear it after winning the war? :cool:

I'm thinking this as well. As someway to power up what they have already.

farmallm · June 2015

anodynes wrote: »

I have to wonder if there's even anything to that crossing the Galactic Barrier thing when done through a subspace shortcut. Your character, your away team and Sela all cross it the same way in Uneasy Allies and none of you have any visible side effects. It doesn't even appear to be any rougher of a ride than any other gateway journey.

This is also interesting. I was looking at the TOS show where the Kelvins took the Enterprise. They crossed the barrier, and the crew didn't get affected at all. This is one part I didn't like about TOS. It kept changing stuff.

http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/By_Any_Other_Name_%28episode%29

artan42 · June 2015

thunderfoot006 wrote: »

The Chase is one of the better TNG episodes. I saw this thread earlier and went and Netflixed it because of the posts in this thread. I then watched Contagion. I want to watch the TNG episode with the Bluegills in it but I cannot remember which one it is.

Conspiracy I think.

xiaoping88 · June 2015

farmallm wrote: »

It was stated they escaped to the spheres. And stayed there at least for some amount of time. So the disaster could still effected them. Plus when the Enterprise encounter the barrier. Gary didn't changed, just got "god like" powers.

His eyes changed. We do not know what might have happened if he had time to "evolve" any further.
Also, the Iconians are not humans. They might react differently to the Barrier's influence.

And nope, the Iconians are just not affected by the accident which hit the Solanae. They were gone when the large scale industrial accident happened which flooded the Solanae Dyson Sphere with space magic particles, which in turn forced the Solanae to leave the Sphere in turn for subspace.

It says that in the Voth Battlezone consoles.

Plus: We clearly encounter Iconians in normal space, outside subspace.

orangeitis · June 2015

I doubt 200,000 years is enough time to "evolve" so drastically. I think their changes were pure technological augmentations. They might've either been into genetically modifying themselves or their offspring, altering their bodies through some advanced process or both.

xiaoping88 · June 2015

orangeitis wrote: »

I doubt 200,000 years is enough time to "evolve" so drastically. I think their changes were pure technological augmentations. They might've either been into genetically modifying themselves or their offspring, altering their bodies through some advanced process or both.

In TNG, a humanoid culture apparantly not too far above the Federation in regards to technology and civilization, brinks at ascension to energy form.

I think in the context of Trek canon, the Iconians becoming semi-energetic works perfectly fine.

Or they enhanced their own evolution in a post-humanist (-Iconianist) way.

Or space magic shenanigans with or without the Barrier.

orangeitis · June 2015

xiaoping88 wrote: »

In TNG, a humanoid culture apparantly not too far above the Federation in regards to technology and civilization, brinks at ascension to energy form.

I think in the context of Trek canon, the Iconians becoming semi-energetic works perfectly fine.

I just don't understand any of that. What does "ascension to energy form" even mean?

xiaoping88 · June 2015

orangeitis wrote: »

I just don't understand any of that. What does "ascension to energy form" even mean?

Huh? Watch the episode, dunno how to be any more specific. Common SciFi tropes anybody?

orangeitis · June 2015

xiaoping88 wrote: »

Huh? Watch the episode, dunno how to be any more specific. Common SciFi tropes anybody?

lol no, I didn't mean to put the question onto you. It was more of a rhetorical question to highlight the nonsensicalness of that particular science fiction trope. :P

amosov78 · June 2015

Surely it's just highly sophisticated battle armour they're wearing isn't it? That'd easily explain away their apparent magical abilities.

maina · June 2015

orangeitis wrote: »

lol no, I didn't mean to put the question onto you. It was more of a rhetorical question to highlight the nonsensicalness of that particular science fiction trope. :P

Why would you question a nonsensical trope in Star Trek? Or any Sci-Fi Series for that matter....:P

You guys need to search the forbidden site for leaks. The transformation from a "normal" to "advanced", in the case of the iconians, can be handled in so many ways. From Dumb, to symbolic, to well.. whatever. (I personally predict a "sell your souls for survival, we didn't know the cost" kinda deal. Easy to write)

It surprises me how uncreative most Trek fans are.

ryugasirius · June 2015

mustrumridcully0 wrote: »

An interesting detail I noticed is that it looks as if the Iconians back then weren't quite a as "air and darkness" like as they are today - because the Iconian in that footage seems to walk around and is also falling down for a moment. Is it actually so that the Iconians were more much more "regular" humanoids than they are now? What changed? Evolution? Genetic Engineering? Freak Accident?

There are rumors about one of future FE/missions involving traveling back in time to ancient Iconia and meeting "humanoid" Iconians as they were before they changed into their current (semi-energy-whatever) form, so it shoudn't be just an art/graphic update.

mimey2 · June 2015

I think that the Iconians altering themselves genetically isn't too far-fetched. After all, they are the 'first children' of the Preservers, whom they themselves were masters of genetics. So I don't think it's be too far off the path to say that maybe the Preservers so long ago passed along at least some of their knowledge to the Iconians who eventually used it to alter themselves.

Which is another reason why the Iconians would be so willing to destroy the Preserver archive, as they would know exactly what the Iconians had done to themselves, and be able to undo it, or find a weakness.

mackbolan01 · June 2015

just don't mess with that galactic barrier unless you want yer brain fried by pure Q power(what the barrier is made of)

ancient iconians, HA! i hereby officially *TRIBBLE* in yer faces

and if you think klinks smell bad, just wait until you get a whiff of what comes outta my TRIBBLE !!!!

The Iconian in the Tau Dewan archieve footage

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