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Hur'q vs. Klingons; Science career path.
karmog
Member Posts: 115 Arc User
With numerous discussions on the subject, many trekkies still cling to the idea that Klingons are "nothing but savages and barbarians, who stole their technology from the Hur'q". The franchise only encourages such conclusions with its own examples.
Kurak:
Bat'leth:
Looking at the actors' voiced thought processes, can you guess what "pre-existing knowledge of Klingons" was given to them as a background?
One of the most common statements in various discussions on the subject is that "Klingons drove off the Hur'q invaders and reverse-engineered their advanced technology."
The obvious questions are "HOW?" and "WITH WHAT?" Sticks and stones? Bat'leths?
Maybe THIS is how Klingons stopped the Hur'q? Yea, I know how the film ends and what it took to get there; it still doesn't invalidate the scene.
This is the reason why the KDF science career path suffers in STO and why there are few to no choices of science vessels for the faction, especially of the Klingon design; not the "poor sales" excuse given by Cryptic, considering the past offerings.
The real reason, as indicated by the franchise's background concepts, is the CBS controlled propaganda to portray Klingons as "dumb savages" to make the UFP (Starfleet) look better.
The irony is that the dumber Star Trek portrays Klingons, the dumber it makes Starfleet look because even with such portrayal they still, somehow, manage to be a major threat (e.g. TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise").
Kurak:
Kurak was played by Tricia O'Neil, who applied a pre-existing knowledge of Klingons while playing the role. She said about the character, "I knew the difficulty this particular Klingon was involved in because she was advancing. She had the great weight on her shoulders of being intelligent, of being a scientist, and she was crossing barriers. But she was still a Klingon, so she was very
not savage, but physical, where a lot of muscle was still involved, even though she was crossing over into being a scientist."
Bat'leth:
Introduced in "Reunion", the bat'leth was originally inspired by comments from Worf actor Michael Dorn, as he wanted his character's fighting style to be more martial arts than barbarian.
Looking at the actors' voiced thought processes, can you guess what "pre-existing knowledge of Klingons" was given to them as a background?
One of the most common statements in various discussions on the subject is that "Klingons drove off the Hur'q invaders and reverse-engineered their advanced technology."
The obvious questions are "HOW?" and "WITH WHAT?" Sticks and stones? Bat'leths?
Maybe THIS is how Klingons stopped the Hur'q? Yea, I know how the film ends and what it took to get there; it still doesn't invalidate the scene.
This is the reason why the KDF science career path suffers in STO and why there are few to no choices of science vessels for the faction, especially of the Klingon design; not the "poor sales" excuse given by Cryptic, considering the past offerings.
The real reason, as indicated by the franchise's background concepts, is the CBS controlled propaganda to portray Klingons as "dumb savages" to make the UFP (Starfleet) look better.
The irony is that the dumber Star Trek portrays Klingons, the dumber it makes Starfleet look because even with such portrayal they still, somehow, manage to be a major threat (e.g. TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise").
Post edited by karmog on
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The thing is that SFC is based on "Star Fleet Battles" (it's the same game only the ships look different). SFB is however set in an entirely different universe and is not even allowed to use the Star Trek name.
SFC could do so only because Interplay had the Star Trek license.
So we have a Star Trek game not actually set in the Star Trek universe.
Anyway back to the history in SFB/SFC
There the Klingons were conquered by a species called "The Old Kings" that looked like the grey Roswell aliens. The Old Kings employed the Klingons (and various other species) as soldiers and technitians on their ships for decades.
Then one day the Old Kings started to ship all their "employees" back to their home planets and departed the known galaxy
They left a few of their obsolete ships in orbit around the Klingon homeworld.
The Klingons built chemical rockets and sent some folks up there the reactivate them and used them as a basis for their own ships.
And here's the problem: a lot of people read it and went
"Old Kings = Hur'q -> Klingons got their tech from the Hur'q"
*facepalm*
Based on this I could see Cryptic's story going forward on this. That the iconians are behind it all like always and that the hur'q were a servitor race that had the fek'ihr as their re-animated such and such "dishonored klingons" that went along with it because they had it hard wired into them that is where they belonged and that they couldn't escape. Being that and the space zombies out there the kobali or whatever that they came across this and didn't actually invent the tech of re-animation so they stole it to be able to reproduce thus the reason why they picked the vaadwarrr or whatever its spelled to manipulate them and that there is a secret connection between hur'q, fek'ihr, klingon, kobali, and remans that probably is what they tried to get rid of that those ahem not spoiling but those ppl that tried to help you on a certain place but never could get you what you needed maybe lol.
Of course though you know who is going to find that connection it will be neelix he'll have come up with some disgusting food combination of horrible meals that come from the alpha and delta quadrants that ends up being the combination for weaponizing his meal to destroy the iconians.
This will be good news because its a way they can redo fek'ihr ships too so they don't look like a box with spikes glued to the side of it. I've always though whoever made the design had a piece of something shaped like a square and stabbed pencils into it and said whoa this is fek'ihr ship!
This answers all of the Science issue because the KDF does not question their spirituality plus they can't fathom that the people attacking them in that manner are actually klingon zombies. So without that motivation due to brainwashing for so many centuries the curiousity of science never hits the Klingon people.
WTF did I just read?
Because it means they got the technology without learning the underlying science, which places limits on how far they can improve it and their ability to progress beyond it. And we all know how the Klingons treat anybody who isn't a warrior. (Case in point in the latest FE: Captain Kock-up gives all the credit to Kahless for wounding T'ket, and absolutely none to B'Eler, the engineer who was solely responsible for Kahless being able to do it.)
And by the way, they're not "thriving" if they have to declare war on the Federation every few decades just to keep their society from falling apart under the weight of its own stupidity.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It's clear that you know TRIBBLE about the Klingon's culture.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_fb_0_10?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=klingon+art+of+war&sprefix=klingon+art+of+war%2Ctoys-and-games%2C154
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Klingon-Bird---Prey/dp/145169590X/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1434171636&sr=8-7&keywords=klingon+bird+of+prey
These books are licensed by CBS, made by the guys who did much of the technical work on the Star Trek series post TOS.
Because this kind of stuff has been used by the playerbase to "prove" (yeah something that is used in another product line whose storyline is so different it is not allowed to call itself Star Trek is proof somehow) Klingons are actually "inferior" to the...every other major power out there.
Okay, that means it was actually impossible for...
- the Americans to be the first on the moon because they didn't invent rocket science
- the Germans and Russians to build the scarierst tanks of WW2 because they didn't invent the tank
- the Japanese to build the biggest battleship in history because until the 1920's they had their warships built by other countries
...need I go on?
Or do humans not count because we're special somehow?;)
And all from supposed 'Federation' players as well. So much for tolerance and understanding, eh?
I sure hope this issue is limited to these game forums and STO in general, and not in the larger Star Trek fanbase.
Normal I would say not to count on that, but since most of this brand of fandumb is rooted in the I deserve everything and anyone getting anything means their taking it from me entitlement issues not what they actually think. I'm reasonable sure it's mostly only sto.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Also, people fail to understand that klingons thrive on conflict. It's their way of life, it's what makes them tick. It doesn't sound enlightened, but that Federation POW - just like klingons might consider Federation own ways primitive/weak.
War makes klingons move forward - it boosts their military, industry, scientific research, expansion (both conquest and colonization), culture (new heroic operas etc).
It's peace that weakens them - it breeds idleness, idleness breed restlessness, and restlessness breeds internal conflict which is more threatening than actual external threat in many ways. Therefore, it's in their leader's interests to keep the Empire in state of near constant warfare. It doesn't need to be full scale war like the last war with Federation, but there must be something to keep his people look outwards, not inwards, for a challenge.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
Well, there are quite a few "open holes" in Star Trek that can be subject to interpretation. For example, the Klingons are suposed to have acquired the cloaking technology from the Romulans for the D7 battlecruiser and their warp tech - however, in ENT which takes place a lot before that suposed trade, the Klingon Bird of Prey is clearly shown to be able to cloak.
I concur, that is a distinct possibility as well.
from what we know of them the Ferasans have spent generations genitally modifying their species (and successfully unlike humans and klingons) so they clearly have expertise in science fields.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I noticed today when playing the new FE, Butterfly, that Commander Jarok says during a part of it that the Klingon's stole the technology from the Romulan's. Though this could just be poor wording, or just bad info on the part of the writers. Maybe just bitterness on the deal that was made with the Klingon's by Jarok as well, I suppose.
[ Still Waiting for a Shiny New T6 Romulan Science Ship to Command ]
And we don't know how the trade was "made". Maybe the Klingons sold ships to the Romulans ,and the Romulans sold Cloaking Devices to the Klingons - but there was no reverse engineering allowance in that. Considering the Romulans do still not use Matter/Antimatter Warp Cores, the exchange may have ended up much more one-sided then originally intended.
Or the Klingons actually strong-armed the Romulans into the "technological alliance"...
The reference is to the *softish canon* theft of the B'rel, not the K'tinga/Akif exchange.
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
I actually agree with your views on Klingon technological development, but as Thea said of Romulans, so goes the same for Klingons; "Our people are warriors, often savage, but we are also many other pleasant things.".
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
...and the idea of the ship being stolen actually collides heavily with several bits and pieces from the actual movies.
As soon as the BoP decloaks Sulu says "Klingon Bird-of-Prey, she's arming torpedoes"...so if it was a stolen ship Sulu was just that good he was able to identify a stolen Romulan ship as being stolen by Klingons ON SIGHT.
Sulu may be good but he can't be THAT good.
Also after stealing the ship from the Romulans, the Klingons spent...months(?) totally redoing the internal decorations and even writing their own manuals and/or replacing all the labelns on the entire ship and wrting a custon software for the computer in Klingon (Scotty: "Damage control is easy...reading Klingon, that's hard") before setting out towards the Genesis planet. *facepalm*
And the Klingons only look like stupid, barbaric, amoral wastes of genetic material because the story writers insist on making them out that way. I'm not too thrilled about it.
My character Tsin'xing
Indeed. The Hur'q tried to take over Qo'nos, and their spoils of war would have been slaves, the planets resources, and a base of ops to spread their invasion. But it was the Klingons who won, and thus got the spoils,among them yes being warp tech. But applying it to their own ships along with building said ships don't get done through sheer stupidity.
My character Tsin'xing