Space Trait: Point Blank Shot and equitable inclusion

darkknightucf · June 2015

Honest question: do those that design weapon enhancements have a problem with making this work for all weapon-based abilities?

I can see the argument for not making it +10% all damage, but here is yet another scenario where kinetics are left out of the proverbial conversation.

To expand upon that, I am NOT advocating for kinetics to be the best weapons out there. I actually WANT a high difficulty factor in using a primarily kinetics build. What I don't want is to have a once-viable weapons platform that required X skill to deploy properly for Y result to become X+90 to provide you Y-135. Furthermore, forcing obsolescence because there is very little attention placed on other weapons platforms would mean reducing the number of combinations of weapons utilized in this game.

Even if I am speaking for a very tiny minority, that doesn't invalidate the point being made. Furthermore, I'd wager that if there was more effort to address kinetics in the game, more people would use them in more build combinations.

Thank you for your time.

thissler · June 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

Honest question: do those that design weapon enhancements have a problem with making this work for all weapon-based abilities?

Thank you for your time.

No. They don't. I'm not even sure why you'd start a "serious" post in this manner. Props to you I guess.

I don't even see the merit in your obsolescence post.

This isn't going to help you as you'll ignore it.

You are speaking for a very tiny minority. And it does invalidate your point. You can't change kinetic torpedoes from what they were designed to do, provide hull smashing burst damage once shields were defeated, to do what you want them to do, provide energy weapon level damage to all targets.

Have a good day. Start your next post without an insult. See how that works out for you as a person.

cepholapoid · June 2015

Hell, I'd say make it 0-10% all weapon damage, to avoid unwanted sideffects. I mean, my sci would love the trait you are proposing just for the TBR damsge, but I think if it where limited to all weapon damage it might be more balanced as a trait.
But ya, I'd love the inclusion of kinetic in this trait, would make it even more fun.

gerwalk0769 · June 2015

It would be nice if torpedoes could apply this trait.

chillee · June 2015

gerwalk0769 wrote: »

It would be nice if torpedoes could apply this trait.

Aside from the fact that thumbprint gives bonus based in synchrony to range and energy attenuation over range, which really wouldn't make sense with a torpedo. Just get some Command Powers for your torpedoes

darkknightucf · June 2015

thissler wrote: »

No. They don't. I'm not even sure why you'd start a "serious" post in this manner. Props to you I guess.

I don't even see the merit in your obsolescence post.

This isn't going to help you as you'll ignore it.

You are speaking for a very tiny minority. And it does invalidate your point. You can't change kinetic torpedoes from what they were designed to do, provide hull smashing burst damage once shields were defeated, to do what you want them to do, provide energy weapon level damage to all targets.

Have a good day. Start your next post without an insult. See how that works out for you as a person.

You misunderstand my point. I do not want kinetic torpedoes to become energy weapons. I do not want them to have the same abilities as energy weapons. I do not want them to emulate energy weapons.

What I DO want is to have them as a viable weapons platform, ideally in combination with energy weapons, when engaging in more challenging content, WITHOUT being imbalanced in PvE or PvP.

As to the number of people who are using kinetics for their builds, yes, there is a vocal minority in this game. With that said, there are significant numbers that are asking questions about either their old builds, or wanting to make a new build that would involve some mix of kinetics + other damage dealing ability (or even tanking!). The lack of abilities to enhance kinetic weapons compared to the number of abilities that have been released within the last three months to enhance energy weapons speaks for itself. For many people, since there's no interest in developing them further, they won't invest the time and resources to utilize kinetics. Hence low utilization of them in STF's, and a next-to-zero use in the new elites.

Restating my original point, but from a different perspective; aside from a mostly working Kemocite, when was the last relevant and mostly working ability or effect was designed for kinetics? Now, compare that number, and the frequency of those designs to other damage abilities.

One other point.....

thissler wrote: »

You can't change kinetic torpedoes from what they were designed to do, provide hull smashing burst damage once shields were defeated,

In the new Elites, when do the shields go down before the target dies? How much time is there between shields going down and target death? Vs smaller targets? Vs larger targets?

EDIT: There were some questions asked when I brought up this specific ability, primarily focused on the range drop-off. While I initially focused in on the, "yet another trait for energy weapons", there technically wouldn't be any issue with having this trait work w/ kinetics. Where would be the imbalance in including "all weapon damage"?

jaydenomega812 · June 2015

I don't get it...what are you asking for here a buff to kinetic damage or a nerf or what? Cause I'm just not seeing anything other than 'more people should use kinetic damage' in which case I think most do use at least one torp launcher in combination with either there tbr, dhc's, or dbb's, beam arrays.

darkknightucf · June 2015

jaydenomega812 wrote: »

I don't get it...what are you asking for here a buff to kinetic damage or a nerf or what? Cause I'm just not seeing anything other than 'more people should use kinetic damage' in which case I think most do use at least one torp launcher in combination with either there tbr, dhc's, or dbb's, beam arrays.

In the past 6 months count the number of items, set bonuses, traits, etc that boost:

Energy Weapons
Kinetic Weapons
Both

Note the disparity. I am advocating for an effective change in the disparity.

gerwalk0769 · June 2015

chillee wrote: »

Aside from the fact that thumbprint gives bonus based in synchrony to range and energy attenuation over range, which really wouldn't make sense with a torpedo. Just get some Command Powers for your torpedoes

I'm not so sure about that; and Command powers do not fit the bill or the build.

cepholapoid · June 2015

On the matter of torpedo spaces traits and equality. I wanna find the person who decided to change my Subspace Sheath trait to energy weapons only. Because that is uncool on so many levels :mad:

darkknightucf · June 2015

cepholapoid wrote: »

On the matter of torpedo spaces traits and equality. I wanna find the person who decided to change my Subspace Sheath trait to energy weapons only. Because that is uncool on so many levels :mad:

Wait... Subwarp Sheath? The ArmorPen based on speed trait? When was this changed?

darkknightucf · June 2015

The official word via Borticus:

The Subwarp Sheath answer via Borticus

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1476291

Quoting Borticus:

# 3
Yesterday, 11:01 AM
Reply With Quote
The text of this Trait should have been updated to state "Energy Weapons" instead of "All Weapons." It appears to be working as intended, but the description is misleading. We'll get that corrected.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Staff Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Follow the STO_DevTracker on Twitter!

Unknown · June 2015

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darkknightucf · June 2015

And it continues.....
Comparing the Manticore Trait to the new cruiser trait:

One takes a different weapon class to build eleven stacks (1 stack per weapon per weapon cycle) to activate it, while the other works with a weapon BOff ability that directly buffs the intended weapon.

One has a 20 second lock-out + stacking time for a 10 second active window, while the other can be maintained almost indefinitely in an appropriate build that is suitable for that platform.

In fairness, one is bugged out to where it works the majority of the time, and only with most weapons on one firing mode, while the other hasn't been released yet, so we can't compare its effectiveness for the weapon class that it enhances.

EDIT: The new trait for energy weapons is OVERPERFORMING well above advertised numbers on it's weapon energy conservation, while the weapon haste is men to negligible at 10%.

Unknown · June 2015

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darkknightucf · June 2015

Beamdown,

To keep things concise and to the point I'm going to make this response as short as possible, while addressing as many of your points as possible.

Saying that I am good with kinetics does not mean that I have no right to argue for their merits, or against the obvious issues with them. I urge you to re-read the OP and see my exact stance.

1) What I am advocating for affects both torpedoes and mines, and would provide the greatest boost to Sci-Torp Captains. I DO NOT fly a Sci-Torp boat. Yes, the FIXES would also benefit me as well (duh).

2) The FIXES as well as the occasional power boost to traits to include kinetics where it makes sense is NOT asking for kinetics to be better than energy weapons.

3) Borticus has made a round-about statement here on how problematic it would be for him and his team to address kinetics, but didn't give any details. I have been asking about a general roadmap for weapons, and specifically kinetics, for months. Link: http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3b8mwp/krenin_research_lab_preliminary_info/

4) Virus has already answered the Vaad energy weapons and their real damage boosts against shields. That "Bigger Bang" is not even a fizzle. The Command spec requires energy weapons to use, and I am sure that if energy weapon boosts would require the use of a torpedo to have a 2% CHANCE to activate an energy boost, there would be an upraor. All I had to do was ask around. Aside from the Tier 1 Space of Command spec that requires energy weapons to use, there is nothing else that affects kinetics exclusively, and only one that lightly buffs both energy and kinetic weapons.

5) The 105K CE "achievement" doesn't count, because at the time, there was a bug with the proc rate for exploits (normally 2%, but was set to 90% for that week). Adjusting for the extra damage, I did somewhere around the 80K's

6) When a trait was SOLD (for money) as +ArP for ALL weapon damage, yet it doesn't work for all weapons, and bug reports were filed for this, the answer was, "Oops, we meant +energy. We'll change that.", and not even a sorry or a consolation to the people who bought it for their kinetic weapons, that's wrong. Period. I feel horribly bad for the people that bought those ships expecting the trait to work as initially advertised on release day.

7) Even the new trait, Weapon System Synergy trait that works ONLY for torpedoes requires energy weapons to activate, takes a long time to build up stacks (depending on how many energy weapons you use), can lose the stacks quickly, and takes more stacks than advertise to activate, how should one react to that? Now, throw in the fact that it doesn't work for all torps and for all firing modes.

8) As a former Cannoneer, I HAVE advocated for single cannons at a time where DHC's were part of the Escorts Online trend. Now, I STILL advocate for changing the archaic range drop-off mechanism for all cannons, due to the change in PvE dynamics.

9) Furthermore, because of the intended and unintended changes that benefit FaW builds (re: Embassy Console Plasma Explosion crits ONLY during FaW), and seemingly no will to make any change to what exists now, I DO advocate for thoughtful, positive changes to Kinetics (yes, MINES and PROJECTILES) in both bug fixes, as well as the introduction of new traits and abilities.

At no point do I EVER advocate for one homogeneous build type to surpass another. At no point do I EVER advocate for my build to be the king of the roost. To constantly insist that I am doing so when I have literally spelled it out multiple times that it is NOT SO, is not a reading comprehension failure on my part.

darkknightucf · June 2015

FYI, I did report that Kemocite is bugged both for and against torpedoes in both firing modes. I caught flak from both supporters and detractors in wanting it fixed.

Unknown · June 2015

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Unknown · June 2015

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darkknightucf · July 2015

wardcalis wrote: »

Oden, I lol'd

Some days, it's just better to let it be. |=)

Space Trait: Point Blank Shot and equitable inclusion

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