Really? They can create planets (well Dyson Spheres), travel across the Galaxy in an instant, vapourise people with a wave of their hand, and have a bunch of brainwashed zealots for an army. What part of the definition of gods are they missing?
As A. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Doesn't make the Iconians gods. And the Goa'uld were just douches with high tech too. And so were the Taelons, etc.
As A. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Doesn't make the Iconians gods. And the Goa'uld were just douches with high tech too. And so were the Taelons, etc.
Well that's the point of all gods. They are just explanations for things we can't yet explain or understand. Iconians can do magic stuff on godly scales, things that we (now and in 2410) can't understand.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well that's the point of all gods. They are just explanations for things we can't yet explain or understand. Iconians can do magic stuff on godly scales, things that we (now and in 2410) can't understand.
Really? They can create planets (well Dyson Spheres), travel across the Galaxy in an instant, vapourise people with a wave of their hand, and have a bunch of brainwashed zealots for an army. What part of the definition of gods are they missing?
Comes down to what you would define as a god. We could be gods for the ancient greeks with all our technology. The god of the bible, tora and koran is omnipotent -something most ancient gods arent- thus giving a completly new perspective. Japanese Kami (which roughly means god, but the better description would be a spirital being with some power) can be found pretty much everywhere, from weak ones to powerful ones. Pharaos were also gods.
Now, take a pick of your definition. You will always find some applying and some disproving. Its a bit like religion, everyone goes to hell since there are more than a single one.
As A. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Doesn't make the Iconians gods. And the Goa'uld were just douches with high tech too. And so were the Taelons, etc.
Pretty much this. Like I said, we could pose as gods ourselves.
Well that's the point of all gods. They are just explanations for things we can't yet explain or understand. Iconians can do magic stuff on godly scales, things that we (now and in 2410) can't understand.
Which makes the concept pretty vague, eh. In the end, everything is explainable. At least at some point or time.
How about they make a KDF only mission to find themselves some gorram brains. Kill the TRIBBLE first, then monologue about how honorable you supposedly are.
LOL!! All this. I'll bring my own Sword of Kahless.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
the only gods in star trek are the Qs. The Ionians are nothing to them.
The Q. And probably the Douwd who played Kevin in "The Survivors" (ST:TNG). Although specified nowhere, I got the impression there were more beings like him (like the Q Continuum).
The only reason that episode happened is because this is all a pay-per-view drama the Q are watching for the giggles... Its not that crytpic writers blow TRIBBLE its that one Q goes 'hehe this would be funny as hell' the others watch and laugh and another takes a turn TRIBBLE with the mortals... then one yells 'DUDE PUFF PUFF PASS!! Thats the rule!'
The Iconians are gods, do understand that. There are probably 7 or 8 of them. Khaless wanted to go toe-to-toe with a god, so we can say, he fighted the gods. Doing so he expects himself to become a god. You know, all that Klingon stuff about war, honour, challenge.
To win the war we have to kill the gods. One will probably survive and come back for revenge. We will also get the sword back, don't you worry, the writers will take care of it. That last Iconian, I hope to see a mission, The Last of the Iconians.
While this is a good idea sadly the last exec dev actually stated that the Klingon fed war was ended so they didn't have to make any more KDF only missions. I don't have the link but I'm sure someone else does.
This means they have lost all their creative mindset. They could make 3 missions, one kdf to get the sword back....one for roms to get their sword...and a fed mission to find a rare vulcan lipra. This would mean we have to use some ancient special weapon to kill an iconian.
Comes down to what you would define as a god. We could be gods for the ancient greeks with all our technology. The god of the bible, tora and koran is omnipotent -something most ancient gods arent- thus giving a completly new perspective. Japanese Kami (which roughly means god, but the better description would be a spirital being with some power) can be found pretty much everywhere, from weak ones to powerful ones. Pharaos were also gods.
Which makes the concept pretty vague, eh. In the end, everything is explainable. At least at some point or time.
Well my point was they aren't false gods, just gods, for all the woolly defining that requires. Sure they aren't Q level but Seth isn't exactly Zeus level, Vesta isn't exactly Jehovah, there are different levels of gods.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The Q. And probably the Douwd who played Kevin in "The Survivors" (ST:TNG). Although specified nowhere, I got the impression there were more beings like him (like the Q Continuum).
I guess you cant really put them on a power scale. We dont know if Q can bestow life from nothingness or if he just goes and transports people from one reality to another or ripping them from the time continuum and back again.
The douwd couldnt give back life. He also didnt seem to be able to warp time or space (else he could have stopped the attack or transported everyone out). On another hand, the at the point to be ascended person (from the species that approached the point of evolution into non-corporeal form) was at least able to restore life.
I think you cant really make a power level contest here, since everyone seems to have different aspects of power, with the Q being the allrounders (or at least near allrounders).
Well my point was they aren't false gods, just gods, for all the woolly defining that requires. Sure they aren't Q level but Seth isn't exactly Zeus level, Vesta isn't exactly Jehovah, there are different levels of gods.
Jupp. But then you could also say neither is a god
We've run into (self-proclaimed) gods in ST(O) before - Apollo, the Prophets, Sybok's patron, Molor, etc etc.
Q (jokingly) declared himself to be God at least once (in Picard's "afterlife"). The Iconians are nothing new in this regard. The most explicit comparison has already been made, by the devs - that they are beings similar to Gary Mitchell, after his exposure to the Galactic Barrier, but with considerably more experience in wielding their power.
The Klingons claim to have killed their gods long ago, finding them to be "more trouble than they were worth."* Seemed pretty clear to me that Kahless's intent was to emulate or evoke that legendary feat.
(* A case can be made that 24th-25th century humanity, who are portrayed as almost entirely secular, have done the same, while being less bombastic about it.)
Just to play a little devil's advocate here... there is actually nothing in the mission that specifically says that the I.K.S. Hegh, when beaming the surviving crew back to the ship, did not also beam up the sword.
Therefore, a special mission to retrieve it may be unnecessary.
If you pay attention when you are forcefully beamed out by the stupid paniced NPC the sword is laying on the floor and is not beamed out.
Well my point was they aren't false gods, just gods, for all the woolly defining that requires. Sure they aren't Q level but Seth isn't exactly Zeus level, Vesta isn't exactly Jehovah, there are different levels of gods.
I'm a level 54 space-god.
Put that in your warp core and eject it, Azathoth!
I have a sneaking suspicion that a part of the idea behind Kahless losing the blade was so that players of any faction could retrieve it from the Iconians later.
If they wanted JUST KDF to have it, they wouldn't have killed Kahless because they could have him give it to you.
Sometimes story is dictated by the loot tables of later content.
They wanted the weapon as a hook for players. They wanted players of all factions to be motivated by it. So they killed Kahless deep behind enemy lines to justify players of all factions being able to get it as a reward, transforming it into a symbol of the Iconian conflict.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same to the Sword of Mol'rihan at some point. And they arguably already did it to Zefram Cochrane's shotgun.
They're naturally going to be looking for lore artifacts to set as bait of some kind for players down the line.
My guess would be the Sword of Kahless either gets attached to a login perk (ie. like the various events) or a No Win Scenario type achievement. I doubt they'd tie that to an FE or a rep without a massive pricetag or a chance mechanic.
It'll likely be a legendary six mod weapon or have a crazy armor pen bonus.
Comments
Don't know about anyone else, but that would've surprised the hell out of me. Way more than the TP-backstab move.
As A. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Doesn't make the Iconians gods. And the Goa'uld were just douches with high tech too. And so were the Taelons, etc.
Well that's the point of all gods. They are just explanations for things we can't yet explain or understand. Iconians can do magic stuff on godly scales, things that we (now and in 2410) can't understand.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Fair enough.
Comes down to what you would define as a god. We could be gods for the ancient greeks with all our technology. The god of the bible, tora and koran is omnipotent -something most ancient gods arent- thus giving a completly new perspective. Japanese Kami (which roughly means god, but the better description would be a spirital being with some power) can be found pretty much everywhere, from weak ones to powerful ones. Pharaos were also gods.
Now, take a pick of your definition. You will always find some applying and some disproving. Its a bit like religion, everyone goes to hell since there are more than a single one.
Pretty much this. Like I said, we could pose as gods ourselves.
Which makes the concept pretty vague, eh. In the end, everything is explainable. At least at some point or time.
The Borg, though...
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
LOL!! All this. I'll bring my own Sword of Kahless.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
The Q. And probably the Douwd who played Kevin in "The Survivors" (ST:TNG). Although specified nowhere, I got the impression there were more beings like him (like the Q Continuum).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ATVG3cul1mw
This means they have lost all their creative mindset. They could make 3 missions, one kdf to get the sword back....one for roms to get their sword...and a fed mission to find a rare vulcan lipra. This would mean we have to use some ancient special weapon to kill an iconian.
Well my point was they aren't false gods, just gods, for all the woolly defining that requires. Sure they aren't Q level but Seth isn't exactly Zeus level, Vesta isn't exactly Jehovah, there are different levels of gods.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I guess you cant really put them on a power scale. We dont know if Q can bestow life from nothingness or if he just goes and transports people from one reality to another or ripping them from the time continuum and back again.
The douwd couldnt give back life. He also didnt seem to be able to warp time or space (else he could have stopped the attack or transported everyone out). On another hand, the at the point to be ascended person (from the species that approached the point of evolution into non-corporeal form) was at least able to restore life.
I think you cant really make a power level contest here, since everyone seems to have different aspects of power, with the Q being the allrounders (or at least near allrounders).
Jupp. But then you could also say neither is a god
Q (jokingly) declared himself to be God at least once (in Picard's "afterlife"). The Iconians are nothing new in this regard. The most explicit comparison has already been made, by the devs - that they are beings similar to Gary Mitchell, after his exposure to the Galactic Barrier, but with considerably more experience in wielding their power.
The Klingons claim to have killed their gods long ago, finding them to be "more trouble than they were worth."* Seemed pretty clear to me that Kahless's intent was to emulate or evoke that legendary feat.
(* A case can be made that 24th-25th century humanity, who are portrayed as almost entirely secular, have done the same, while being less bombastic about it.)
I'm a level 54 space-god.
Put that in your warp core and eject it, Azathoth!
If they wanted JUST KDF to have it, they wouldn't have killed Kahless because they could have him give it to you.
Sometimes story is dictated by the loot tables of later content.
They wanted the weapon as a hook for players. They wanted players of all factions to be motivated by it. So they killed Kahless deep behind enemy lines to justify players of all factions being able to get it as a reward, transforming it into a symbol of the Iconian conflict.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did the same to the Sword of Mol'rihan at some point. And they arguably already did it to Zefram Cochrane's shotgun.
They're naturally going to be looking for lore artifacts to set as bait of some kind for players down the line.
My guess would be the Sword of Kahless either gets attached to a login perk (ie. like the various events) or a No Win Scenario type achievement. I doubt they'd tie that to an FE or a rep without a massive pricetag or a chance mechanic.
It'll likely be a legendary six mod weapon or have a crazy armor pen bonus.