Beam boat or Torp boat for end game PVE?

stocapitan · May 2015

So I am getting ever closer to 60 and starting to think about my end game ship. My toon is a alien Federation Tact captain. My leveling experience has been with cruisers as a beam boat but I have been feeling a torpedo boat might be pretty fun.

My question is should I go beam boat or torp boat? Rather than reinvent the wheel I wanted to ask the community to point me in the way of some current builds. Here is the beam boat I created

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=assaultcruiserrefitt5utact_10130

As for a torpedo boat I haven't come up with anything since I don't feel I know enough. From the basic reading I have done I know I will need a science ship but which one? Are there any current guides out there?

Any help would be appreciated and the time/dilithium/EC isn't a worry as I know your end game ship is something to always improve on.

seaofsorrows · May 2015

I won't comment on Torpedo boats.. I don't like them, don't use them and am not qualified to advise you. I greatly prefer beam boat.

As for your build, looks solid overall but I would consider a couple changes.

1. Swap Reverse Shield Polarity and Emergency Power to Weapons II so you can get EPTW 3 instead. Will give you a nice damage boost.

2. You're wasting your console slots. 4 Neutronium Alloys are doing next to nothing for you. Alloy consoles suffer 'diminishing returns' so your 3rd and 4th console are doing almost nothing. I would swap one of them for the Assimilated Module from your science consoles and either Romulan Zero Point, or Bio-Neural Gel Packs from the Delta Set. Replace the Science Console with a Shield Emitter for higher shield capacity.

3. Take out one of your aft beams and replace with Kinetic Cutting Beam for 2pc bonus with the Assimilated Module.

Other then that, your beam boat looks pretty solid.

ryakidrys · May 2015

Changes in engineering are similar to seofsorrows suggestion...

CDR Eng ET1, EPTS2, EPTW3, DEM3
LT Eng ET1, RSP1

2 neutroniums is my recommended maximum since the diminishing returns is bad with neutronium consoles. Fill in engineering with universal consoles and EPS flow regulators.
In science, add some emitter consoles to boost shield heals, get the embassy ones with -TH PLA if you can swing it.

You'll need at least 2 purple/ VR damage control engineers for EPTx cooldowns
2 purple Conn officers that reduce tac team recharge (1 purple and 1 blue is acceptable)
1 development lab scientist to reduce science team recharge

Get the KCB from your tier 2 omega rep. Run sphere of influence again and get the ancient omni directional AP beam.
KCB and assimilated module give a nice 2 piece boost, as does the ancient AP omni beam and the obelisk warp core.

stofsk · May 2015

For god's sake don't waste your resources on fleet weapons. Get crafted weapons, craft them yourself or if you have any friends get them to help out. Craft mk II weapons and look for [CrtD], [Pen] and [CrtH], in that order. Ideally you'd want [CrtD]x3 or [CrtD]x2 with [Pen] or [CrtH]. Then upgrade them with a single experimental tech upgrade with a quality improvement accelerator, chances are you'll get the item upgraded to UR and even Epic. If the UR mod is good (anything other than dmg here is acceptable really, but in order of preference: CrtD, CrtH, Acc and... dmg) then keep the item and keep upgrading it. If not, sell it.

stocapitan wrote: »

As for a torpedo boat I haven't come up with anything since I don't feel I know enough. From the basic reading I have done I know I will need a science ship but which one? Are there any current guides out there?

I don't know about current guides, but torpedo boats can be a lot of fun. But yeah you want a science vessel.

There are some synergies with science powers and certain torpedoes. Grav well paired with gravimetric torpedo from Dyson rep with torpedo spread results in a lot of overlapping holds and damage. You then use the particle emission plasma torpedo from the crafting system to create a AoE DoT. That's just one idea.

saxmanusmc · May 2015

Both are very viable at end game, but both require very different piloting techniques.

My Sci Captain with the Lvl 15 Science and Torp trait, in a Fleet Dauntless with all MK XIV weapons, easily crushes 25K DPS in ISA and 30K+ in CE Advanced as a Torp/PartGen build. I am still tweaking it a little and the recent fixes (minor fixes) to the lag issue is beginning to allow me to pull more out of the build.

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=fesvtorpbuildv2_0

I think the build shows MK XII weapons, but my numbers above are based on those same weapons being upgraded to MK XIV. I just haven't updated the build yet on STO Academy.

Edit: Updated build, check notes for DOFFS and other descriptions.

nuclearwessle · May 2015

If you want a torp boat, and if you dont want a science ship to do that with, the tactical pilot ship is one of a few non-science torp boat options too. Its console boosts torpedo damage and its universal, and its active ability is thematically appropriate. The ship trait spits out microprojectiles every 4 seconds, and as far as I can tell, procs the Projectile Weapon Officer Doff. Youll do far more raw torpedo damage than with a science vessel, but you wont have Gravity Well or a secondary deflector, so its mostly a wash.

However, 5 fore weapons is not only overkill for torpedoes, but possibly a detriment. Have a plan for 2 of those fore weapons (DBB for a Beam Overload shot maybe?)

warmaker001b · May 2015

You can put up some pretty spike numbers with a Torp Boat but a Torp Boat is too much of a hassle to regularly use. Why?

Shields negate roughly 75% of kinetic damage.

There's tricks around that but it's that... You have to rely on too many gimmicks to make it work, otherwise everything you do is worth TRIBBLE in damage. Transphasics? Just too low base damage as compensation for the the shield penetration.

I used to use Torp Boats a lot. Fed, KDF, Rom. Some of the ships I've used for Torp Boating? B'Rel, Steamrunner, 5 TAC Bortasqu, SCI Bortasqu, T'Varo, Ha'feh, D'Deridex, Defiant, MVAE. And more. I've used Torp Boats in PVP, PVE. I've done Torp Boats focused on Photons, Quantums, Transphasics, Tricobalts, and even Chronitons (more for PVP aplications). I've used complimentary mines. I've used the Tractor Beam Mines, Tachyon Mines, Web Mine Launcher (not happy about the Web Mine nerf from a while back, either).

They're just too much of a hassle, and even more so if you're flying solo. The ineffectiveness shields render them make it all a hassle.

Just do the Non-Star Trek route and ignore Torps altogether. Stick to Energy Weapons that have zero performance issues against anything.

saxmanusmc · May 2015

Here is my build updated. See notes section for doffs and other info.

Fleet Dauntless Torp Boat

senatorvreenak · May 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

You can put up some pretty spike numbers with a Torp Boat but a Torp Boat is too much of a hassle to regularly use. Why?

Shields negate roughly 75% of kinetic damage.

There's tricks around that but it's that... You have to rely on too many gimmicks to make it work, otherwise everything you do is worth TRIBBLE in damage. Transphasics? Just too low base damage as compensation for the the shield penetration.

I used to use Torp Boats a lot. Fed, KDF, Rom. Some of the ships I've used for Torp Boating? B'Rel, Steamrunner, 5 TAC Bortasqu, SCI Bortasqu, T'Varo, Ha'feh, D'Deridex, Defiant, MVAE. And more. I've used Torp Boats in PVP, PVE. I've done Torp Boats focused on Photons, Quantums, Transphasics, Tricobalts, and even Chronitons (more for PVP aplications). I've used complimentary mines. I've used the Tractor Beam Mines, Tachyon Mines, Web Mine Launcher (not happy about the Web Mine nerf from a while back, either).

They're just too much of a hassle, and even more so if you're flying solo. The ineffectiveness shields render them make it all a hassle.

Just do the Non-Star Trek route and ignore Torps altogether. Stick to Energy Weapons that have zero performance issues against anything.

Gravimetric Photon Torpedoes are absolutely amazing and pretty consistent with the damage it can put out when used with Torpedo Spread.

And the enhanced Bio-Molecular photon can be built into a energy weapons heavy build and deal massive amounts of damage with THY in excess of 200k without sacrificing much in the ways of energy weapons damage, if anything at all. In fact when fighting enemies with a lot of hull HP it more than exceeds the performance of a single DBB or DHC, and the damage is AoE.

warmaker001b · May 2015

senatorvreenak wrote: »

Gravimetric Photon Torpedoes are absolutely amazing and pretty consistent with the damage it can put out when used with Torpedo Spread.

And the enhanced Bio-Molecular photon can be built into a energy weapons heavy build and deal massive amounts of damage with THY in excess of 200k without sacrificing much in the ways of energy weapons damage, if anything at all. In fact when fighting enemies with a lot of hull HP it more than exceeds the performance of a single DBB or DHC, and the damage is AoE.

Torp Boats are builds that focus on Projectiles as their main armament. The moment you start slamming a bunch of energy weapons on, it's no longer a Torp Boat. A build with, say, any sort of energy weapons composition with that 1-2 torp/mine launcher isn't a Torp Boat. A Torp Boat is almost exclusively Projectile weaponry, with maybe that 1 energy weapon equipped for set bonus or Sci Vessels' free Target Subsystem abilities.

I've used the Enhanced BM Torp extensively. Lovely torp but on it's own, it's not as good. I have had those spike number. But the issue again, is shields. It is the exact same problem all Non-Transphasic Projectiles face.

Dyson Grav Torp? Very situational, very dependent on the build. Torp Spread alone isn't enough. Not even TS3. The weapon only shines on stationary targets or bunched up targets (Grav Welled). Because if the targets are mobile, they simply can still get away from the rifts. Also, the rifts only really shine when they proc in close proximity to each other. Targets taking 1-2 rifts don't suffer much. But if you fire that TS into bunched up targets with all the rifts popping closeby, that's different.

talonxv · May 2015

I have a torp boat or two, I just tend to suppliment them with Borg Kinetic beam and the 360 omni freebie you get from Sphere of influence.

That way you have some damage going in that keeps the shields going so you can spike with torps.

darkknightucf · May 2015

Excerpt from the Torpedo Guide 2.0 (revision in progress):

"WARNING:
If you do not enjoy playing games at the highest difficulty setting, this is not for you. If you get frustrated easily, and are prone to quitting, this is not for you. If you cannot handle being laughed at or ridiculed by your weapon selection, this is not for you. If you do not want to strive to be a better pilot, this is not for you. If you cannot accept the fact that the current mechanics are intentionally stacked against you, this is not for you. If you cannot accept the fact that most of the bugs with kinetics may never be fixed unless enough people put the proper pressure on the Devs to get them fixed, this is most certainly not for you.

If the above does not apply to you, you're most likely part of the 5% of the gaming community that wants a challenge, and can deal with shortfalls and disappointment. You take defeat in stride, analyze what happened, and come back stronger than before, regardless of the odds. For what it's worth, you have my respect. Welcome to the Kinetic Kommunity."

The original guide:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=873351

I fly the Captain & the ship that the original guide advises against; a Tactical Captain in a Defiant. Needless to say, it can be done. I'm not the greatest pilot in all of STO, but I'm not a slouch anymore

My Reddit ship build layout shows what I first started with, and it also serves as a pseudo-journal on the highs and lows of the build.

http://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/2pf98e/fleet_defiant_kinetic_heavy_fire_support/

My builds are always evolving just to experiment and see what combination works. I've dumped mega-tons of dil into this, and I've made mistakes along the way, but I hope that you can learn the lessons I've learned without making the same mistakes I did.

For a Sci-Torp build suggestion, check out
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1468821
(Full disclosure: my co-hosts and I did the vid in there).

As far as numbers are concerned, in pure PuG Lyfe runs, I have results ranging from 22K-49K. As far as PvP, minor tweaks to some loadouts & traits makes one viable, especially vs FBP users |=).

Shields will ALWAYS be your bane, and the archaic mechanic of "One torp fired at a time" gets real old real fast, which further fuels your frustration moreso when the powerCreep and new trait+bonus+weapon love goes to beams constantly....... let me stop....

Still, there are days where you will lose, or you will win BIG! Very rarely will there ever be a middle ground.

Vids for your Kinetic pleasure:
https://www.youtube.com/user/darkknightucf/videos

gerwalk0769 · May 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

Torp Boats are builds that focus on Projectiles as their main armament. The moment you start slamming a bunch of energy weapons on, it's no longer a Torp Boat. A build with, say, any sort of energy weapons composition with that 1-2 torp/mine launcher isn't a Torp Boat. A Torp Boat is almost exclusively Projectile weaponry, with maybe that 1 energy weapon equipped for set bonus or Sci Vessels' free Target Subsystem abilities.

I've used the Enhanced BM Torp extensively. Lovely torp but on it's own, it's not as good. I have had those spike number. But the issue again, is shields. It is the exact same problem all Non-Transphasic Projectiles face.

*Claps*, +1.

And the only Cruiser I've moderately successfully tinkered with, using 90 degree torpedoes, has been the Risan Luxury Liner.

darkknightucf · May 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

Torp Boats are builds that focus on Projectiles as their main armament. The moment you start slamming a bunch of energy weapons on, it's no longer a Torp Boat. A build with, say, any sort of energy weapons composition with that 1-2 torp/mine launcher isn't a Torp Boat. A Torp Boat is almost exclusively Projectile weaponry, with maybe that 1 energy weapon equipped for set bonus or Sci Vessels' free Target Subsystem abilities.

gerwalk0769 wrote: »

*Claps*, +1.

And the only Cruiser I've moderately successfully tinkered with, using 90 degree torpedoes, has been the Risan Luxury Liner.

I believe that this vid will show otherwise

https://youtu.be/W5p0JsdiyuE

gerwalk0769 · May 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

I believe that this vid will show otherwise

https://youtu.be/W5p0JsdiyuE

We are mates, I've appreciated your advocacy for torpedoes, so I'll bite. What is this video showing otherwise?

darkknightucf · May 2015

gerwalk0769 wrote: »

We are mates, I've appreciated your advocacy for torpedoes, so I'll bite. What is this video showing otherwise?

I know I know, and I enjoy our talks.

From the Torpedo Guide 2.0:

" Referencing the original guide, I will throw in my own thoughts on what a "strong" and "weak" torpedo build is.

A ship that uses projectiles to supplement its damage capabilities, but does not use projectiles as one of its main attacks is not a torpedo ship. It just has projectile(s). A ship that utilizes energy, kinetics, and Sci/Engineering abilities equally is a very special snowflake. A ship that has 40% or more damage dealt via kinetics (and kinetic abilities/triggers), WITH kinetics being the leading source of damage for that ship, can be classified as a Kinetic starship. If one wishes to use the "weak" and "strong" terms to quantify the contribution of kinetic damage for the ship in question, we will set 40%-70% as the "weak kinetic build", and > 70% as the "strong kinetic build". A pure kinetic ship utilizes 100% kinetic and all kinetic-related abilities (just had to spell it out for some people). "

I propose to you that one needs not look at the number of weapons loaded onto the ship, but what damage type is delivered by the ship. Based on current mechanics w/ the first tier of the Command Tree, it would be advantageous to run multiple energy weapons and utilize a CSV/FaW for the proper weapon(s). My focus is still on torpedoes and their effects that affect my targets, but the multiple energy weapons are there to supplement the kinetic kapabilities

The cruiser that I flew in that video had over 90% of it's damage dealt via kinetics. You still see multiple beams and FaW from said cruiser. By your standard, said cruiser would NOT be classified as a torpedo starship.

PS: No wide-angle torpedoes there. I utilized it as a "siege ship" of sorts. Parked at range and unleashed the Torpedo Storm (I should trademark that).

gerwalk0769 · May 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

I know I know, and I enjoy our talks.

From the Torpedo Guide 2.0:

" Referencing the original guide, I will throw in my own thoughts on what a "strong" and "weak" torpedo build is.

A ship that uses projectiles to supplement its damage capabilities, but does not use projectiles as one of its main attacks is not a torpedo ship. It just has projectile(s). A ship that utilizes energy, kinetics, and Sci/Engineering abilities equally is a very special snowflake. A ship that has 40% or more damage dealt via kinetics (and kinetic abilities/triggers), WITH kinetics being the leading source of damage for that ship, can be classified as a Kinetic starship. If one wishes to use the "weak" and "strong" terms to quantify the contribution of kinetic damage for the ship in question, we will set 40%-70% as the "weak kinetic build", and > 70% as the "strong kinetic build". A pure kinetic ship utilizes 100% kinetic and all kinetic-related abilities (just had to spell it out for some people). "

I propose to you that one needs not look at the number of weapons loaded onto the ship, but what damage type is delivered by the ship. Based on current mechanics w/ the first tier of the Command Tree, it would be advantageous to run multiple energy weapons and utilize a CSV/FaW for the proper weapon(s). My focus is still on torpedoes and their effects that affect my targets, but the multiple energy weapons are there to supplement the kinetic kapabilities

The cruiser that I flew in that video had over 90% of it's damage dealt via kinetics. You still see multiple beams and FaW from said cruiser. By your standard, said cruiser would NOT be classified as a torpedo starship.

PS: No wide-angle torpedoes there. I utilized it as a "siege ship" of sorts. Parked at range and unleashed the Torpedo Storm (I should trademark that).

We are actually in-game friends also! For the record, you are a very helpful person, and I did not take your intent as snarky or malicious.

Let me do this: Please support Odin's podcast: The Show, it is informative and the host delivers messages and information without ego. Its not a regular podcast from what I hear, but I'd say it's worth a listen.

Oh definitions, I see. Interesting proposals and perspectives, I'm of the strong torpedo boat definition school. Energy weapons can be used to complete a set (usually Science oriented like the Iso cannon or Dyson Set for photons) or to deliver subsystem attacks. The Kobali Cruiser was a disaster of a torpedo boat. And yes, I agree; if run you the Command tree you should use energy weapons. I wish the torpedo abilities, barring Concentrate Firepower, were dependent on procs from torpedoes, not energy weapons. But then I am in the minority running all torpedo builds and not a target audience.

Let me add this, you are advocating an interesting, and needed, philosophy of running both energy and torpedoes. This game need more choice and you, among other people, are pushing to broaden that choice. By doing what you are doing, through research and advocacy, you are not only adding a voice to those who use torpedoes but you are also highlighting serious problems with torpedo mechanics. Thank you.

@ OP: Take a listen to this if you want to run energy weapons and torpedoes. It can also help you with your skills if you want to resp.

warmaker001b · May 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

Excerpt from the Torpedo Guide 2.0 (revision in progress):

*snip to save space*

Interesting. I'd have to revise things and give it a whirl again. The question is how does the build hold up in a PUG. Also, Omega STFs are too friendly for Torp Boats. Main targets have zero shields to begin with.

darkknightucf · May 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

Interesting. I'd have to revise things and give it a whirl again. The question is how does the build hold up in a PUG. Also, Omega STFs are too friendly for Torp Boats. Main targets have zero shields to begin with.

Pick three maps and I'll tell you. Better yet, I'll show you.

warmaker001b · May 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

Pick three maps and I'll tell you. Better yet, I'll show you.

Not saying it isn't possible, just curious

And I await the vids and see what you got.

darkknightucf · May 2015

gerwalk0769 wrote: »

We are actually in-game friends also! For the record, you are a very helpful person, and I did not take your intent as snarky or malicious.

Nor did I feel that way

Now, we should act mean before the forum trolls descend upon us for being civil on the forums

gerwalk0769 wrote: »

Let me add this, you are advocating an interesting, and needed, philosophy of running both energy and torpedoes. This game need more choice and you, among other people, are pushing to broaden that choice. By doing what you are doing, through research and advocacy, you are not only adding a voice to those who use torpedoes but you are also highlighting serious problems with torpedo mechanics. Thank you.

Thank you and your comrades for taking the time out to see that it can be done and for answering some of the questions I had about the game mechanics. I've learned a lot from the community at large, and enjoy playing with you and your crew.

gerwalk0769 wrote: »

@ OP: Take a listen to this if you want to run energy weapons and torpedoes. It can also help you with your skills if you want to resp.

Now, how much Zen do I owe you again?

darkknightucf · May 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

Not saying it isn't possible, just curious And I await the vids and see what you got.

I was hoping you'd come on the runs and pick 3

My film crew is standing by right now.

jarvisandalfred · May 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

Nor did I feel that way Now, we should act mean before the forum trolls descend upon us for being civil on the forums

Thank you and your comrades for taking the time out to see that it can be done and for answering some of the questions I had about the game mechanics. I've learned a lot from the community at large, and enjoy playing with you and your crew.

Now, how much Zen do I owe you again?

You stupid idiot stfu you know you can't do $#%^# with torps beams are only way to get more than 2k dps and more than 10k is hacking that's how I know you're cheating stfu noob hacker dps elitist.

Carraya, ISA, and HSE.

warmaker001b · May 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

I was hoping you'd come on the runs and pick 3 My film crew is standing by right now.

I've been on too long on STO lately. Been minimizing time except to get my main Fed & KDF ranking up on Iconian Rep, DOFF, then get off.

Also, I want to clarify that I'm not trying to be a smartass and making it look like you don't know your ****. It's just long ago I burned myself out (to be more blunt... disheartened) on making Torp Boats work well in PVE & PVP, on equal par with Energy Weapons. The hassle of making it effective compared to the typical Energy Weapons based build. My old experience let me do some spikes, i.e. those ridiculous HYT3 Enhanced BM Torps with their AOEs. It's just the player has to jump through a lot more hoops to get that compared to the E-Z Mode Energy Weapons style of fighting. The game's changed since then (Specializations for one) but the guts of it all is still the same.

Lastly, some of my feel from my earlier comments stem from builds that only perform well when playing with upper tier players or with only tight knit groups. I do my Pre-Mades but I also live the PUGlife a lot and sometimes have to carry the team. My builds need to be able to run on low octane fuel if you know what I mean

darkknightucf · May 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

Lastly, some of my feel from my earlier comments stem from builds that only perform well when playing with upper tier players or with only tight knit groups. I do my Pre-Mades but I also live the PUGlife a lot and sometimes have to carry the team. My builds need to be able to run on low octane fuel if you know what I mean

Say it with me now.... PuG... Lyfe.... PuG... Lyfe.... PuG Lyfe!

there you go

darkknightucf · May 2015

jarvisandalfred wrote: »

You stupid idiot stfu you know you can't do $#%^# with torps beams are only way to get more than 2k dps and more than 10k is hacking that's how I know you're cheating stfu noob hacker dps elitist.

Carraya, ISA, and HSE.

^ This is why we can't have nice things

warmaker001b · May 2015

darkknightucf wrote: »

Say it with me now.... PuG... Lyfe.... PuG... Lyfe.... PuG Lyfe!

there you go

I haven't made a Gang Sign for the PUGLyfe yet.

e30ernest · May 2015

stocapitan wrote: »

So I am getting ever closer to 60 and starting to think about my end game ship. My toon is a alien Federation Tact captain. My leveling experience has been with cruisers as a beam boat but I have been feeling a torpedo boat might be pretty fun.

My question is should I go beam boat or torp boat? Rather than reinvent the wheel I wanted to ask the community to point me in the way of some current builds. Here is the beam boat I created

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=assaultcruiserrefitt5utact_10130

As for a torpedo boat I haven't come up with anything since I don't feel I know enough. From the basic reading I have done I know I will need a science ship but which one? Are there any current guides out there?

Any help would be appreciated and the time/dilithium/EC isn't a worry as I know your end game ship is something to always improve on.

I'm not an expert, but I do have some success in flying a torpedo boat. A few things to consider before going all-out on one:

It won't get you to the top of the DPS ranks. You'll do respectable damage on it, even above average damage with one. But you won't get into the 80k+ and beyond DPS level.
It requires a pretty aggressive flying style. You fly head-long, nose in and at full speed and fire off your salvos point blank to get the best out of them.
It requires a bit more patience to fly. Firing off your torpedo skills on CD won't get you anywhere. You need to choose your targets carefully.

By Marshall's definition, I am probably a weak kinetic player. I rely more on my sci-skills and my torpedo's secondary effects than the actual kinetic hit from the torpedo. But when presented with an unshielded target, my torpedos can deal massive hits. For shielded targets, I rely on the PEPT cloud and burn and Neutronic's radiation proc with my exotic damage abilities to fry ships inside their shields. My parses usually show 92-97% hull damage.

I still have beams aboard my ship, and as of last night, used FAW. But these are just to proc secondary effects rather than damage. In fact, my FAW damage from all my beams would total just around 1k DPS for a typical ISA run. I use my beams to complete set pieces (2-piece Dyson and 3-piece Delta for Iso Cannon) and to proc plasma explosions from my consoles. I have one [over] Omni beam to proc my shield penetration DOff.

Now for things going against torpedo boats:

Shields are an issue for pure kinetic builds. Most tacs I know just use overwhelming torpedo damage to slam through them. You can also use transphasics
When you get paired with higher DPS people (think 40k and above), you need to fly even more aggressively since things can die before your torps land. It's something I am still struggling with.
There aren't as many resources to help you build and fly one unlike beam boats, but people like Marshall have been very helpful.
You can spend a lot of EC, Dil and even Zen to get this to a pretty powerful level, but a beam boat will still be more powerful.
There are quite a lot of bugs with torpedos (see Marshall's video on this).

As a tac captain, I think you will do much better than I am doing in my torpedo boat. It might be something you'll find more enjoyable to fly in the long run, and that is more important than overall DPS in my opinion.

talonxv · May 2015

For sci captains, Torp boats can actually be of some use, especially if you focus all your sci slots for exotic damage and use Gravity well out the wazoo.

So a good bang for your buck is to load up with torps and cluster weapons(like the breen or kobali cluster torpedo) then have the 1 360 array you get from the solane arc so you can target secondary systems and have a way of knocking down shields at times then focus on putting all your energy to Aux and spamming away with Gravity well and Tarkin's Rift.

It's a viable strategy to keep ships grouped up so your heavy hitters can wail away. Sure you won't win any DPS race, but many DPS people will thankyou for making their job easier.

yreodred · May 2015

warmaker001b wrote: »

You can put up some pretty spike numbers with a Torp Boat but a Torp Boat is too much of a hassle to regularly use. Why?

Shields negate roughly 75% of kinetic damage.

STO would be much more interesting if Hull/Armor had the same base resistance against energy weapons.

warmaker001b wrote: »

There's tricks around that but it's that... You have to rely on too many gimmicks to make it work, otherwise everything you do is worth TRIBBLE in damage. Transphasics? Just too low base damage as compensation for the the shield penetration.

I used to use Torp Boats a lot. Fed, KDF, Rom. Some of the ships I've used for Torp Boating? B'Rel, Steamrunner, 5 TAC Bortasqu, SCI Bortasqu, T'Varo, Ha'feh, D'Deridex, Defiant, MVAE. And more. I've used Torp Boats in PVP, PVE. I've done Torp Boats focused on Photons, Quantums, Transphasics, Tricobalts, and even Chronitons (more for PVP aplications). I've used complimentary mines. I've used the Tractor Beam Mines, Tachyon Mines, Web Mine Launcher (not happy about the Web Mine nerf from a while back, either).

They're just too much of a hassle, and even more so if you're flying solo. The ineffectiveness shields render them make it all a hassle.

Just do the Non-Star Trek route and ignore Torps altogether. Stick to Energy Weapons that have zero performance issues against anything.

I agree, torpedoes are simply not worth the efford.

For years i've been trying to create working canon-ish builds, but you're simply giving yourself a hard time when trying to use torpedoes.

Beam boat or Torp boat for end game PVE?

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