Let's now all nag to get a level cap increase to level 70 which will take far longer to level and mk XVI ultra epic gear that will take even more resources to put into. Yay!
What tabletop games did you play that weren't role-playing? You must have gamed with twinks or goobers in that case. D&D and the tabletops like it are ALL about story (execept 4th Edition, which is like an MMORPG tabletop, and it BOMBED so hard Pathfinder is as popular as D&D now). .
I was referring to the age-old arguments among tabletop gamers about the difference between "rollplayers" and "roleplayers". Plenty of elitist-snob frustrated actors out there in the 80's and 90's who spent lots of time looking down their noses at the folks who were all about combat & figuring out how those Feats & Skills went best together. /shrug
And yeah - in my experience, most of the tabletop RPGers I've run into tended more towards the rollplaying end of the spectrum. (But, then, I hung out with math/science geeks and went to an engineering school; rather than hanging out with the art geeks or going to a drama school. The people I knew were much more comfortable with numbers than with improvisational acting.
edit: and I've played tabletop RPGs all the way back to blue-book Basic D&D, up through 1st & 2nd AD&D, Rolemaster (a numbers game if there ever was one), Shadowrun, Earthdawn, GURPs, Runequest, etc, etc, etc. And most of the people I played with weren't terribly strong roleplayers. Just because you play a tabletop game, doesn't automatically mean you're doing awesome roleplay. Just that it's much more possible than in the restricted-by-coding world of digital games.
....In the roleplaying vs rollplaying debate, the only wrong answer is the one where the group isn't having fun. For the folks I run with, there are a lot of tastes at the table. I like that, but I can't enforce one view universally.
In general, they want a hard fought, high stakes combat most of the time, and the two powergamers play "top down". They want tactical combat, and approach it like a puzzle to be solved, while some of the other players are just sort of along for the ride in combat and trying to get to the next roleplay bit.
I do step in an enforce some anti-metagaming occasionally ("Make a spellcraft / perception check to see if you realize the wizard has been blinded" or "Make a sense motive to see if you can interpret that yelp of surprise to understand your buddy around that corner needs help"), and they roll with it. It helps to leverage some "out of combat" skills into usefulness for them, and is more gentle than saying "No, you can't, that's metagaming" so there is less bad blood being generated. If they can't act on the knowledge, it's because of a bad roll, not because I stepped in and told them they couldn't.....
...this is wandering a bit from the thread topic, though. :P
We were talking about tabletop RPGs, though. Your entire list are miniature war games. I've played Warhammer 40K also, didn't mention it because it's not relevant to the discussion.
Both Warhammer and Warhammer 40K STARTED at roleplay games, not wargames.
The change in format largely dates from when GW had financial difficulties due to over expanding, the bankers stepped in and grabbed seats on the board for the bailout, and a new era began.
No more £10 for an RPG hardback rulebook aimed at people who could read... Hello £40 for some plastic figures, cardboard 'scenery' and a softbound rules pamphlet aimed at 7 yr olds.
Same era when 'White Dwarf' changed from a magazine, with product reviews, a letters page, and adverts from multiple retailers, into a "monthly catalog supplement" extolling the virtues of this months pay-to-win super soldier.
As for your 'Role-Player' pretensions, seen those all too often, usually from people who can't roleplay worth a damn, and always in the wrong place.
You want roleplay? A friend of mine from way back... was playing a game of D&D 3rd ed with us. He picked a charachter minature out of the box on the table, looked at it, rolled his stats, selected char class etc., then when 15 mins later the gm asked for players to introduce their chars, recounted an off the cuff background for his, based on the 'rat skull' pendant modeled on the figure.
A self imposed exile adventurer from the 'Isle of Rats', a shipwreck founded colony in the middle of the worst storm infested sea on the world map, where only the crew, passengers and the ships rats made it ashore, founding a rat based economy, femented rats milk in the tavern, rat fillets for supper, rat farmers giving each other ceremonial hunting clubs and throwing nets on Rat Father's Day.
An isolated dunghole that exports dwarven cuisine ingredients, and would be adventurers keen to get away from the damn rats.
All of this off the cuff, with no 'script' or notes, he spent all 15 mins reading the char creation pages in the rulebook and choosing starting options.
The GM game him a +1 on all rat related rolls char bonus. He ended up as the backbone of the party, our rally point and repeated savior.
Meanwhile the self proclaimed "roleplayers" had TRIBBLE chars because they spent 12 of their 15 mins writing their pretentious biographies, rather than thinking about their chars in the game, and ad-libbing.
Role-Play Snobs... Meh...
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
You expect me to give your words any credence when you, without knowing a thing about me, insult my role-playing? We've kept this civil so far, so why are you starting the flaming? You have knowledge like an adult, but behave like a teen.
I didn't insult you, I stated that MOST of the Snobs from the Rabid-Roleplay-Reich tend to be TRIBBLE at what they demand is so important and claim they excel at.
I stated that MOST of these people tend to try and force their delusions in where they are not relevant. Trust me on this, I've had those technical threads, on modding forums, where some damn roleplayer comes in and starts talking non tech TRIBBLE, "because RP!", and whining that the people coding the mod turn and say no system wont do that and its stupid anyway.
I've even seen a 'moderator' on a modding forum, close a tech thread with "the answers will be found in RP".
This is an empirical observation based on the last 40 years of watching 'roleplayers' compared to people who just play roleplay games now and then.
Your first posts in this thread pegged you pretty closely. You stared your age, previous games played, and expectations and complaints.
As I originally replied, you think you are 'special' and 'gifted' and 'entitled' because you played game X in year Y. and that 'obviously' you 'deserve' to get existing XP on Elite difficulty, AND extra prizes, but everyone else deserves half XP and naf all prizes, because they 'obviously' are not as good as you.
You also seem to want to enforce a 12 month 'char ' developement time for all players "because RP!".
I didn't insult you...
I don't need to.
"Roleplayer" says it all...
<center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day... Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
So this entire thing has nothing to do with levels, it's about ranks.
Which is something the vast majority of the player base already agrees with - up until the newer content, we're basically treated as a Captain. Even with the newer content we're still acting like junior officers, doing menial tasks for Neelix while the lower-ranking Tuvok stands and chats!
That's a dead horse topic, however.
For the record, my first character was level 50 before the end of the Klingon War episode. :P
You gain levels and ranks, but these are only numbers, game play does not change much. You start with commanding a ship and at your highest level and rank, you still command a ship, flying arround doing pew. pew, pew. Do not make the mistake to relate rank and levels. It is not, oh, I am promoted to captain, now I am going to get a whole new experience.
So what is the problem. As I have said, you cannot outpace the game. I remember WoW. Because of a raised level cap, they adjusted the original leveling, resulting in doing 'grey' quests and killing 'grey' mobs. For people that do not understand this. Grey was content to low for your level. It didn't give you any xp.
STO doesn't have this situation. First you can replay former mission at your apropiate level, giving also an apropiate reward. Second you do not hit a wall because you don't have the right level. (However, this is the case at some point in the Delta Rising expansion. A thing that can be seen as broken and, I predict, will get a fix. The dime has to fall at some places, though).
Also, you don't have to upgrade, ship and weapons, right away. I am flying a T4 ship with mk XI equipment in the Delta quadrant. I haven't popped once. (It is a science ship, thogh). So don't make a problem, while there is no problem..
Which is something the vast majority of the player base already agrees with - up until the newer content, we're basically treated as a Captain. Even with the newer content we're still acting like junior officers, doing menial tasks for Neelix while the lower-ranking Tuvok stands and chats!
That's a dead horse topic, however.
Yeah. It's a basic flaw of the "player is the main actor/protagonist/hero" game style clashing with "the player is a command officer with dozens of peons they can order around." There's no rational reason why the commander of the away team would have to hit every button/turn every TRIBBLE, while their minions stand around watching.... except for the part where the player is meant to be the primary source of action.
If you think about it, DOFFing is most in line with what a Captain/Admiral would really be doing. But that's not a very exciting game :P
edit: Best solution, of course, would have been for your character to always be a Captain, never higher. Someone who takes orders from the Big Cheeses (getting missions assigned) but then has the autonomy to run their own ship. Heck, the movies even followed that pattern, with Kirk getting himself deliberately knocked back down to Captain so he could continue running around on a ship (and so that the story writers could continue having him run around on a ship).
But that's not a change that's going to happen to this game. The things you're talking about, lindsey, are things to consider for a new game. Basic, foundation-structure issues. They're not going to make such large alterations to a years-old, established MMO. Just not going to happen.
Funny thing is, it's EASY TO FIX in the programming I'm certain, because all they'd have to do is make sure the dialogue that currently grabs your rank grabs your TITLE instead, meaning if you put your title as Lieutenant, you get called that.
It is easy. I say this based purely upon the fact that it used to do this.
The thing is, the titles they reward us with are ridiculous.
Leading to NPCs saying things like, "Welcome, Moist Lindsey!" :rolleyes:
It has SOME to do with levels, just not ALL about levels. I consider 1-55 to be pathetically fast, and I doubt 55-60 will pain me because I'm 34 years old and have an attention span that allows me patience.
The rank thing does bug me a lot. It's just plain STUPID to have thousands of Fleet Admirals flying around in dreadnoughts taking orders from people multiple ranks below them. That's why I came up with my chart that would put Fleet Admiral at Level 100. Heck, I'd make it BILLIONS of XP to get just from 99 to 100 because of this alone. I think getting a Fleet Admiral should be a FEAT (not necessarily a goal). Heck, no players should even get to be Fleet Admirals if I'm really honest. Funny thing is, it's EASY TO FIX in the programming I'm certain, because all they'd have to do is make sure the dialogue that currently grabs your rank grabs your TITLE instead, meaning if you put your title as Lieutenant, you get called that. Or maybe make rank separate from title and have a "visible"rank that gets called in dialogue. Now I'm no good at programming, but it SOUNDS easy to program when compared to every thing else they've done. Call it an educated guess.
Imagine, if you will, a game that has normal progression to, say, 60, and then ramps up exponentially beyond that, but the endgame content starts at 60 anyway, and people insane enough to grind out levels beyond that earn the ability to have a slightly easier time.
Either way, we can't talk about one without talking about the other as it currently stands. They're linked completely.
Wish I could work for Cryptic and give them these ideas. I'd do "idea woman" for freaking $10/hour, which I imagine is about a quarter of what anyone working on the game actually makes. Hell, I love Trek so much I'd do it for free!
It would enrage players to have a rank ladder that high and that hard. You have also fallen into the trap of seeing all the other players while the main story is supposed to be the singular player story. The story is all about YOU the one hero.
You are the fleet admiral who continually does the impossible. Why you're the fleet admiral.
Though I will give you fleet admiral in 18 months is asinine. We as players keep telling pwe, let us assign our own tittle, problem solved.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
So im going to agree with lindsey, the levelling is a wee bit insane. With the 50-60 bump that was added, instead of making 55-60the same xp as 1-55,disperse it evenly across 1-60,but make 59-60 a little higher. Being an actual captain for an hour or two is a little insane, especially since rep have several cstore boats at each level i get to use for like five minutes. Maybe locking future progression based on completing the rankup missions or the title choice bit would both work who knows, but i would be a fan of something giving here.. My delta recruit flew from 1 to 60 by the end of the second week (the bonus xp week i think it was, might have been week. She got to fly in the connie for only a few hours at most, the same for everything else up to 50. When levelling toons i dont even try to get any upgraded gear at this point cuz you outgrow it too quickly.
The OP's opinion may not be popular, but they are 100% correct in their assessment of the leveling speed in this game. Any endgame veteran of more than one MMO can tell you that the leveling in this game from 1 to 50 is insanely fast compared to other games in the genre--so much so that it is probably actually hurting Cryptic's bottom line, as it makes the lower-tier C-Store ships a poor perceived value for the amount of time you get to spend in them before the next tier.
That "horrible" grind from 50 to 60 and the spec point grind that follow? Are actually still faster than the endgame grinds in games like EQ2 or WoW. Considerably so. Hell, in EQ2 you don't cap out until level 95 and 360 AA (that game's spec point equivalent), and the grind to earn a single level or AA by that point--with the same amount of effort that goes into earning a single spec point in STO--can be measured in weeks, easily.
The problem with STO is that the experience curve ramps up so sharply at 50 in comparison to the ridiculously fast leveling that came before, that inexperienced players or people who have limited exposure to other MMOs feel like they've hit a wall in comparison. The experience for the first few tiers needs to be doubled at a minimum, with the curve adjusted so that the first tier still goes by relatively quickly as it does in other games, but the second much less so, leading up to a point somewhere around 45-50 where it gradually eases up to what we have now there.
Fleet Admiral L'Yern - Screenshot and doffing addict
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
I really doubt cryptic will listen to one persons viewpoint on an obviously polarizing topic, and i can't believe im actually explaining this but your character is not a full fledged fleet admiral, its something called a battlefield promotion to give people in dire circumstances abilities that they need. If the war was over tomorrow and starfleet went back to exploring every single fleet admiral would be busted back to lieutenant or ensign faster than you can say "power creep"
Yeah me too,and before the xp buff...what a nightmare.
See, I think the thing about grinds like Wintersaber is that we can learn from them and we can learn from the failure of MMO raiding as a popular design choice.
The best part of a grind is the right to brag (or be ashamed). It's the right to be a peacock. Tons of alternate optional grinds with cosmetic quirks is good.
Grinding to progress or maintain power parity is NOT as good.
I have back and forth issues with some of the game design theory out there and gamification but I'm really big on the old game design addage which Jane McGonigal pushed outside of game design, "Games are unnecessary challenges."
Optional grinds for cosmetics like Bloodsail or Wintersaber in WoW are fantastic. They diversify the player base by creating cosmetic specialization.
Meanwhile, group content is where people come together and I don't think it is desirable to unlock power behinds grinds because then you lock teammates behind grinds.
I favor a flat world in terms of power with a diverse world in terms of the directions players hurtle themselves cosmetically.
As I mentioned the rank of Commodore was dropped by Trek because it was also dropped by the real life US Navy. The rank of Rear Admiral Lower Half is a real life military rank used in multiple services, so it is entirely appropriate.
See, I think Commodore is one of those things it makes sense to unlock behind a grind wall. Not everyone should be a commodore but if you had 3-4 TOS queued events and had a running tally that increased as you played those or replayed the TOS time travel missions that unlocked "Commodore", a TOS Defiant uniform (with its alternate service patch) and Constellation and Sector 9 and other TOS service patches, you have a great OPTIONAL grind.
(Maybe the Klingon version could be an armband made from a ripped Starfleet shirt with the various TOS patches sewn on?)
I like that when you see someone, you get a feel for the choices they have made in terms of how they spent their time.
"Commodore" doesn't belong in LINEAR progression but I can see it making sense as an alternate cosmetic progression path.
The problem, of course, is that it is an MMO. And has been for years. So it's kind of tilting at windmills to come in and try to campaign for STO to be an entirely different game.
I'm going to go out on a limb by saying this but I will:
I think WoW has frequently delivered a Star Trek feel that STO doesn't.
First, I'm female. Second, I'm actually completely serious and not baiting anything or anyone. I really am Level 52 and not even done with the Cardassian storyline (have one episode left in it).
I'm old school. I was born in 1980. I grew up playing Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, and Ultima. D&D0, no hand holding in games at all, and true challenges.
Now the challenge is easy to get in this game by turning difficulty to Elite, but I still feel like I'm not EARNING anything. I gain skill points too fast and don't get to savor a new rank for as long as I'd like to. Level 60 doesn't feel like an accomplishment now because 1-50 was SO SO SO fast. For the first 20 levels, I gained one after every single mission. It just seems out of whack.
Why are people obsessed with speed now? Gotta do everything faster. I wanna stop and smell the roses. If the changes I suggested aren't good for all people, it should at least be a character option to halve skill point gains (or turn it off altogether). Even if the skill points don't change, I absolutely believe the ranks should. The current ranks make zero sense. Rear Admiral Lower Half is stupid and goes against canon, and Fleet Admiral at 60 just makes me think "too many cooks in the kitchen". Or maybe Advanced will be like now, with Elite giving 25% more.
Honestly, if I go deeper into my suggestion, I would halve skill gains on Normal mode, down 25% in Advanced, and current amounts on Elite since Elite currently doesn't really reward you extra at all (I ran the same mission on both Normal and Elite and there was almost no difference in the loot).
Same age you are here, and you're entirely incorrect. Levelling being far too SLOW is the only valid complaint that has ever appeared on these boards.
The leveling you are looking for would turn the game into a 50 hour per week (minimum) job for people. I'm sorry, but I don't find that fun.
Same age you are here, and you're entirely incorrect.
Older than both of you, not that that means anything here--and she's right. You may not have enough experience with other online games to be aware of this, but the leveling curve in most other MMOs and the degree of endgame grind that is present in them are far, far more intensive and time-consuming than here. That is not an opinion--it is an objective fact that can be verified by anyone who has put a comparable amount of time and effort into, say, WoW or EQ2 or EVE.
How one feels about it is simply a matter of perspective.
The leveling you are looking for would turn the game into a 50 hour per week (minimum) job for people.
Otherwise known as "almost every other MMO" ever made.
I'm sorry, but I don't find that fun.
Then as much as I'd like to suggest that you branch out and gain exposure to other MMOs so that your perspective on STO's grind is informed by more than just STO, I'm afraid I have to advise against it--you're likely to hate most of them.
Like I said, the problem isn't that the endgame grind is too slow--it's that the change is so abrupt that it thwarts the expectations of inexperienced players who have gotten used to the rapid pace of leveling from 1-50. Smooth out the curve and new players will be scratching their heads wondering why the veteran players complain so much.
Fleet Admiral L'Yern - Screenshot and doffing addict
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
to me there simply isnt an issue of too fast or too slow, as long as there was enough content to make a non grind leveling experience then all would be good, the problem is that when reaching delta rising content a wall is there and unless you pay for experience boosts you will have to grind and grind alot, and after you finally reach lv 60 theres a new grind in the form of specializations, wich would be fine if there were enough content to support it but only a few stf's are run and beside those theres nothing to do but to grind.
There just isn't enough content to allow for XP slowdowns. Levelling is pretty much a linear process that repeats the same story on every character you make. It gets old fast, but there should certainly be an option to freeze XP gains for anyone who wants to slow it down and enjoy the lower tier ships for a while. It doesn't require a massive change just create a consumable that people can use to stop XP gains. Other games have it already and it works.
Otherwise known as "almost every other MMO" ever made.
...before the last decade. The big grinds have been being toned down for awhile now. Just like the disappearance of "lose XP when you die" and "loot your enemy's corpse" PvP. Gratuitously punishing gameplay mechanics that only appeal to niche/"hardcore" folks aren't hip anymore.
the leveling in this game from 1 to 50 is insanely fast compared to other games in the genre--so much so that it is probably actually hurting Cryptic's bottom line, as it makes the lower-tier C-Store ships a poor perceived value for the amount of time you get to spend in them before the next tier.
Hmm...
There are 122 ships that can be used under level 39.
There are an additional 79 ships available at level 40.
There are an additional 161 ships available at level 50.
Of those 122 ships under level 39, 97 cost money (C-Store/Lockbox/Lobi).
Of the additional 79 that become available at level 40, 65 cost money.
Of the additional 161 ships available at 50, 161 cost money unless you're a 600 day vet, in which case 152 cost money.
In terms of Zen, the 97 under level 39 range from 500 to 1500. I'll use an average of 1000 and that means roughly 97,000 Zen worth of ships that cost money.
In terms of Zen, the 65 unlocked at level 40 cost 2000, so roughly 130,000 Zen worth of ships that cost money.
In terms of Zen, the 161 unlocked at 50 cost 2500 to 3000. Considering Lobi and Lockbox ships actually cost a lot more, I'll go with 3000 as average and say roughly 483,000 Zen worth of ships that cost money.
They don't care about the lower tier ship sales so much they literally give them away, I think I have 9 free T1 to T4 ships from their giveaways.
Then there's the lower tier ships like the Leech and Valdore where we'd buy them anyway for the consoles, or iconic ships like the Connie because it's the Connie.
They don't care about the lower levels, much like WoW it's about pushing towards the endgame (50 in STO). After all, you're not going to be upgrading your weapons to Mk XIV if you're finding level appropriate drops. :rolleyes:
...before the last decade. The big grinds have been being toned down for awhile now. Just like the disappearance of "lose XP when you die" and "loot your enemy's corpse" PvP. Gratuitously punishing gameplay mechanics that only appeal to niche/"hardcore" folks aren't hip anymore.
Oh good grief. "Gratuitously punishing"? Corpse retrieval runs are gratuitously punishing. So are permanent item loss DPs, or quests that make you camp and clear named placeholders for days in order to get the rare update.
But having to put in hours or even days of play in order to gain the equivalent of your next level at endgame? Unless you're talking about something like Guild Wars--where the level cap is set deliberately low and leveling is intentionally rapid because the game is built around endgame PvP builds--that's still the norm. Have you played Wildstar? FFXIV? Rift? All of these have fairly significant grinds up to or beyond the level cap, especially when you start grinding rep or endgame gear.
STO is still very much an outlier in terms of how quickly you level. Even at endgame the spec point grind is about on par with those relatively recent offerings.
It's a "boiling frog" problem. It simply feels excessive because the curve bends too sharply at 50 compared to the pace up until that point, so it feels like you're suddenly hitting a wall. Smooth out that inflection point and most of the issue goes away.
Fleet Admiral L'Yern - Screenshot and doffing addict
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
Have you played Wildstar? FFXIV? Rift? All of these have fairly significant grinds up to or beyond the level cap, especially when you start grinding rep or endgame gear.
Judging by their subs very few have recently.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Comments
Yay! Tier 7 ships here we come.
I was referring to the age-old arguments among tabletop gamers about the difference between "rollplayers" and "roleplayers". Plenty of elitist-snob frustrated actors out there in the 80's and 90's who spent lots of time looking down their noses at the folks who were all about combat & figuring out how those Feats & Skills went best together. /shrug
And yeah - in my experience, most of the tabletop RPGers I've run into tended more towards the rollplaying end of the spectrum. (But, then, I hung out with math/science geeks and went to an engineering school; rather than hanging out with the art geeks or going to a drama school. The people I knew were much more comfortable with numbers than with improvisational acting.
edit: and I've played tabletop RPGs all the way back to blue-book Basic D&D, up through 1st & 2nd AD&D, Rolemaster (a numbers game if there ever was one), Shadowrun, Earthdawn, GURPs, Runequest, etc, etc, etc. And most of the people I played with weren't terribly strong roleplayers. Just because you play a tabletop game, doesn't automatically mean you're doing awesome roleplay. Just that it's much more possible than in the restricted-by-coding world of digital games.
The discussion prompted me to do a Google search to see what others have said. Some of the onest that seemed interesting:
http://rpgmuseum.wikia.com/wiki/Role-playing_versus_roll-playing
http://gamerliving.net/2012/08/19/roleplaying-vs-roll-playing-pen-paper-rpgs-part-iii/
http://www.topmudsites.com/rp101-01.shtml
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?20845-Balancing-roleplaying-vs-rollplaying
...this is wandering a bit from the thread topic, though. :P
Both Warhammer and Warhammer 40K STARTED at roleplay games, not wargames.
The change in format largely dates from when GW had financial difficulties due to over expanding, the bankers stepped in and grabbed seats on the board for the bailout, and a new era began.
No more £10 for an RPG hardback rulebook aimed at people who could read... Hello £40 for some plastic figures, cardboard 'scenery' and a softbound rules pamphlet aimed at 7 yr olds.
Same era when 'White Dwarf' changed from a magazine, with product reviews, a letters page, and adverts from multiple retailers, into a "monthly catalog supplement" extolling the virtues of this months pay-to-win super soldier.
As for your 'Role-Player' pretensions, seen those all too often, usually from people who can't roleplay worth a damn, and always in the wrong place.
You want roleplay? A friend of mine from way back... was playing a game of D&D 3rd ed with us. He picked a charachter minature out of the box on the table, looked at it, rolled his stats, selected char class etc., then when 15 mins later the gm asked for players to introduce their chars, recounted an off the cuff background for his, based on the 'rat skull' pendant modeled on the figure.
A self imposed exile adventurer from the 'Isle of Rats', a shipwreck founded colony in the middle of the worst storm infested sea on the world map, where only the crew, passengers and the ships rats made it ashore, founding a rat based economy, femented rats milk in the tavern, rat fillets for supper, rat farmers giving each other ceremonial hunting clubs and throwing nets on Rat Father's Day.
An isolated dunghole that exports dwarven cuisine ingredients, and would be adventurers keen to get away from the damn rats.
All of this off the cuff, with no 'script' or notes, he spent all 15 mins reading the char creation pages in the rulebook and choosing starting options.
The GM game him a +1 on all rat related rolls char bonus. He ended up as the backbone of the party, our rally point and repeated savior.
Meanwhile the self proclaimed "roleplayers" had TRIBBLE chars because they spent 12 of their 15 mins writing their pretentious biographies, rather than thinking about their chars in the game, and ad-libbing.
Role-Play Snobs... Meh...
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
I didn't insult you, I stated that MOST of the Snobs from the Rabid-Roleplay-Reich tend to be TRIBBLE at what they demand is so important and claim they excel at.
I stated that MOST of these people tend to try and force their delusions in where they are not relevant. Trust me on this, I've had those technical threads, on modding forums, where some damn roleplayer comes in and starts talking non tech TRIBBLE, "because RP!", and whining that the people coding the mod turn and say no system wont do that and its stupid anyway.
I've even seen a 'moderator' on a modding forum, close a tech thread with "the answers will be found in RP".
This is an empirical observation based on the last 40 years of watching 'roleplayers' compared to people who just play roleplay games now and then.
Your first posts in this thread pegged you pretty closely. You stared your age, previous games played, and expectations and complaints.
As I originally replied, you think you are 'special' and 'gifted' and 'entitled' because you played game X in year Y. and that 'obviously' you 'deserve' to get existing XP on Elite difficulty, AND extra prizes, but everyone else deserves half XP and naf all prizes, because they 'obviously' are not as good as you.
You also seem to want to enforce a 12 month 'char ' developement time for all players "because RP!".
I didn't insult you...
I don't need to.
"Roleplayer" says it all...
Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
1) Hit 55. You won't seem to gain XP any more. Doing a whole story chain might get you a bubble. Maybe. On double XP weekends.
2) 55 - 60 Takes as much xp as 1- 55.
Which is something the vast majority of the player base already agrees with - up until the newer content, we're basically treated as a Captain. Even with the newer content we're still acting like junior officers, doing menial tasks for Neelix while the lower-ranking Tuvok stands and chats!
That's a dead horse topic, however.
For the record, my first character was level 50 before the end of the Klingon War episode. :P
So what is the problem. As I have said, you cannot outpace the game. I remember WoW. Because of a raised level cap, they adjusted the original leveling, resulting in doing 'grey' quests and killing 'grey' mobs. For people that do not understand this. Grey was content to low for your level. It didn't give you any xp.
STO doesn't have this situation. First you can replay former mission at your apropiate level, giving also an apropiate reward. Second you do not hit a wall because you don't have the right level. (However, this is the case at some point in the Delta Rising expansion. A thing that can be seen as broken and, I predict, will get a fix. The dime has to fall at some places, though).
Also, you don't have to upgrade, ship and weapons, right away. I am flying a T4 ship with mk XI equipment in the Delta quadrant. I haven't popped once. (It is a science ship, thogh). So don't make a problem, while there is no problem..
Yeah. It's a basic flaw of the "player is the main actor/protagonist/hero" game style clashing with "the player is a command officer with dozens of peons they can order around." There's no rational reason why the commander of the away team would have to hit every button/turn every TRIBBLE, while their minions stand around watching.... except for the part where the player is meant to be the primary source of action.
If you think about it, DOFFing is most in line with what a Captain/Admiral would really be doing. But that's not a very exciting game :P
edit: Best solution, of course, would have been for your character to always be a Captain, never higher. Someone who takes orders from the Big Cheeses (getting missions assigned) but then has the autonomy to run their own ship. Heck, the movies even followed that pattern, with Kirk getting himself deliberately knocked back down to Captain so he could continue running around on a ship (and so that the story writers could continue having him run around on a ship).
But that's not a change that's going to happen to this game. The things you're talking about, lindsey, are things to consider for a new game. Basic, foundation-structure issues. They're not going to make such large alterations to a years-old, established MMO. Just not going to happen.
It is easy. I say this based purely upon the fact that it used to do this.
The thing is, the titles they reward us with are ridiculous.
Leading to NPCs saying things like, "Welcome, Moist Lindsey!" :rolleyes:
It would enrage players to have a rank ladder that high and that hard. You have also fallen into the trap of seeing all the other players while the main story is supposed to be the singular player story. The story is all about YOU the one hero.
You are the fleet admiral who continually does the impossible. Why you're the fleet admiral.
Though I will give you fleet admiral in 18 months is asinine. We as players keep telling pwe, let us assign our own tittle, problem solved.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
That "horrible" grind from 50 to 60 and the spec point grind that follow? Are actually still faster than the endgame grinds in games like EQ2 or WoW. Considerably so. Hell, in EQ2 you don't cap out until level 95 and 360 AA (that game's spec point equivalent), and the grind to earn a single level or AA by that point--with the same amount of effort that goes into earning a single spec point in STO--can be measured in weeks, easily.
The problem with STO is that the experience curve ramps up so sharply at 50 in comparison to the ridiculously fast leveling that came before, that inexperienced players or people who have limited exposure to other MMOs feel like they've hit a wall in comparison. The experience for the first few tiers needs to be doubled at a minimum, with the curve adjusted so that the first tier still goes by relatively quickly as it does in other games, but the second much less so, leading up to a point somewhere around 45-50 where it gradually eases up to what we have now there.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
See, I think the thing about grinds like Wintersaber is that we can learn from them and we can learn from the failure of MMO raiding as a popular design choice.
The best part of a grind is the right to brag (or be ashamed). It's the right to be a peacock. Tons of alternate optional grinds with cosmetic quirks is good.
Grinding to progress or maintain power parity is NOT as good.
I have back and forth issues with some of the game design theory out there and gamification but I'm really big on the old game design addage which Jane McGonigal pushed outside of game design, "Games are unnecessary challenges."
Optional grinds for cosmetics like Bloodsail or Wintersaber in WoW are fantastic. They diversify the player base by creating cosmetic specialization.
Meanwhile, group content is where people come together and I don't think it is desirable to unlock power behinds grinds because then you lock teammates behind grinds.
I favor a flat world in terms of power with a diverse world in terms of the directions players hurtle themselves cosmetically.
See, I think Commodore is one of those things it makes sense to unlock behind a grind wall. Not everyone should be a commodore but if you had 3-4 TOS queued events and had a running tally that increased as you played those or replayed the TOS time travel missions that unlocked "Commodore", a TOS Defiant uniform (with its alternate service patch) and Constellation and Sector 9 and other TOS service patches, you have a great OPTIONAL grind.
(Maybe the Klingon version could be an armband made from a ripped Starfleet shirt with the various TOS patches sewn on?)
I like that when you see someone, you get a feel for the choices they have made in terms of how they spent their time.
"Commodore" doesn't belong in LINEAR progression but I can see it making sense as an alternate cosmetic progression path.
I'm going to go out on a limb by saying this but I will:
I think WoW has frequently delivered a Star Trek feel that STO doesn't.
Same age you are here, and you're entirely incorrect. Levelling being far too SLOW is the only valid complaint that has ever appeared on these boards.
The leveling you are looking for would turn the game into a 50 hour per week (minimum) job for people. I'm sorry, but I don't find that fun.
How one feels about it is simply a matter of perspective.
Otherwise known as "almost every other MMO" ever made.
Then as much as I'd like to suggest that you branch out and gain exposure to other MMOs so that your perspective on STO's grind is informed by more than just STO, I'm afraid I have to advise against it--you're likely to hate most of them.
Like I said, the problem isn't that the endgame grind is too slow--it's that the change is so abrupt that it thwarts the expectations of inexperienced players who have gotten used to the rapid pace of leveling from 1-50. Smooth out the curve and new players will be scratching their heads wondering why the veteran players complain so much.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
...before the last decade. The big grinds have been being toned down for awhile now. Just like the disappearance of "lose XP when you die" and "loot your enemy's corpse" PvP. Gratuitously punishing gameplay mechanics that only appeal to niche/"hardcore" folks aren't hip anymore.
Hmm...
There are 122 ships that can be used under level 39.
There are an additional 79 ships available at level 40.
There are an additional 161 ships available at level 50.
Of those 122 ships under level 39, 97 cost money (C-Store/Lockbox/Lobi).
Of the additional 79 that become available at level 40, 65 cost money.
Of the additional 161 ships available at 50, 161 cost money unless you're a 600 day vet, in which case 152 cost money.
In terms of Zen, the 97 under level 39 range from 500 to 1500. I'll use an average of 1000 and that means roughly 97,000 Zen worth of ships that cost money.
In terms of Zen, the 65 unlocked at level 40 cost 2000, so roughly 130,000 Zen worth of ships that cost money.
In terms of Zen, the 161 unlocked at 50 cost 2500 to 3000. Considering Lobi and Lockbox ships actually cost a lot more, I'll go with 3000 as average and say roughly 483,000 Zen worth of ships that cost money.
They don't care about the lower tier ship sales so much they literally give them away, I think I have 9 free T1 to T4 ships from their giveaways.
Then there's the lower tier ships like the Leech and Valdore where we'd buy them anyway for the consoles, or iconic ships like the Connie because it's the Connie.
They don't care about the lower levels, much like WoW it's about pushing towards the endgame (50 in STO). After all, you're not going to be upgrading your weapons to Mk XIV if you're finding level appropriate drops. :rolleyes:
But having to put in hours or even days of play in order to gain the equivalent of your next level at endgame? Unless you're talking about something like Guild Wars--where the level cap is set deliberately low and leveling is intentionally rapid because the game is built around endgame PvP builds--that's still the norm. Have you played Wildstar? FFXIV? Rift? All of these have fairly significant grinds up to or beyond the level cap, especially when you start grinding rep or endgame gear.
STO is still very much an outlier in terms of how quickly you level. Even at endgame the spec point grind is about on par with those relatively recent offerings.
It's a "boiling frog" problem. It simply feels excessive because the curve bends too sharply at 50 compared to the pace up until that point, so it feels like you're suddenly hitting a wall. Smooth out that inflection point and most of the issue goes away.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
Judging by their subs very few have recently.