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velsinna
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
As far as I'm aware there's no in-game way of getting a parse from your damage log to give feedback on your damage / effectiveness. I know that third party addons are available to do this - and of course all the cool kids use them, giving them an edge over 'regular' players, but I prefer not to use addons if possible.
Don't you think it's about time that some function like that was brought into the default GUI, levelling the field a bit and making separate 'DPS-meter' addons redundant?
Don't you think it's about time that some function like that was brought into the default GUI, levelling the field a bit and making separate 'DPS-meter' addons redundant?
Post edited by velsinna on
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Showing a lot of bias there. DPs chasing is fun for some people. They are not cooler or better inherently. Having a DPs reader doesn't inherently level the playing field at all,nor does it by itself help anyone. Just like a speedometer doesn't make you a better driver or a bathroom scale make you lose weight.
In fact, by itself,all they do is greatly hurt everyone by encouraging and rewarding egotistical asshattery.
Those players who have improved their damage via DPs meters have done so by experimentation and iteration and practice and collaboration. The meter itself is the least important part of the process. The willingness to put in time and effort to learn, the willingness to change and adapt, those are important. And why even with DPs parsers only a small percentage of players who chase damage end up on top.
Cryptic should work on improving feedback systems and advice systems in game to help people know what to do. Not display systems that encourage comparisons.
A rudimentary DPS pane wouldn't provide anywhere near the information that CLR does was my point.
Here's an image showing only a small part of what CLR offers a person.
http://i.imgur.com/A9ZMNeT.png
In the upper right, there is the Mini Mode window where I blacked out the names...but that would be a "DPS Panel" sort of thing. Which provides only the most basic information.
Even if something like a just a little DPS window were added...it would still be a case of using CLR for that cool kid advantage.
In fairness though, I'm somewhat against having widely-available dps parsers. In W*rld of W*rcr*ft, dps meter addons seem to do more harm than good. Sure they can be useful for self-improvement, but they also encourage highly toxic behavior.
No doubt, some basic info would help out folks in some fashion if they were interested in it. It was just the more about the angle from the OP about replacing them...the sheer amount of info CLR provides - to do away with it...would be a massive wasted effort, imho, on Cryptic's part.
But yeah, as far as a built-in DPS meter sort of thing - it's been brought up a few times that something showing only the player's own DPS...perhaps linked to an average DPS for that particular piece of content or suggested for various content where it might be applicable (perhaps having that suggested amount listed for folks to see)...would probably be better than going the toxic route as you mentioned that has crept up in other games.
I kind of /facepalm when folks copy/paste it into /team unsolicited...sure, it might be helpful for some folks that didn't know that want to know - but that kind of thing go wrong more than it goes right, yeah?
Personally, I dig all the other information it gives beyond DPS/Damage. Damage In, BaseDamage In, Heal Out, Heal In, Attacks In, etc, etc, etc...I'm more of a support person than a DPS chaser.
if you really think your "1337" then you have to prove it. and not by cheating the system to do it with an outside tool.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
That's kind of like asking for race associations, to ban data loggers from race cars!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I'd recommend giving it a try, even if you are not trying to hit high numbers, it's still interesting seeing what does what. You can even use it to find which fighter pets do the most damage, which torpedo does the most and so on.
Ah, a textbook example of : "I don't like it so nobody else can have it!"
you can do that, but in the old days you wouldnt have such a thing, you had to work to make your car and team successful by working with what you got. if your telling me you dont want to work hard and play hard but you wanted it handed to you with an outside means, by all means but it doesnt prove your better, by experience you learn unless you forgot and thats where becoming the best at what you do comes into it because you found out how to work to be the best by finding out yourself.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I'm aware of the 'toxic behaviour' that occurs in other games because of DPS-jocks. You can't be blind to the fact that STO isn't immune to it either, even without an inbuilt meter. The problem as it stands is that there's a vast gulf between those 'in the know', who have tools to get feedback on their performance that'll allow for improvement , and .. well, the rest of us, who don't.
Take for instance choice of traits. We have a vast number to choose from, but the information on them is basic. Can you actually tell if the new trait made any difference to how fast those bad guys blew up? Very rarely, not without a meter. Rather defeats the point of the effort Cryptic went to in designing it, if the ordinary player can't tell if it's working or not.
Designing and perfecting ship setups is one of the main ongoing end-game occupations in STO, the tools to help with it should be a core part of the game. Heck if they wanted to go to town they could even make it only accessible via a console on your bridge, so you have to go sit in your ready-room, look up the graphs after the battle, and execute your Projectile Weapons Officer for incompetence if the reports don't show what you like...
When you drive your car on a public road you are having to maintain a certain speed. Trying to deal damage is more comparable to seeing how fast your car can go in the quarter mile. And for that all you need is a stopwatch. Whether its a car doing the quarter mile or a person trying to do a 100 meter dash. Assuming all/most conditions are equal (they didnt slip on an oil slick or banana peel) the same person or car doing the same distance in 12seconds then 11seconds is an improvement. In a quarter mile race you have distance and time...in STO you have mob health and time. Mob health is the "distance" that you are up against and assuming most things are equal when your times start to improve then that means you are getting better.
If you are the kind of player that looks at a damage meter and simply sees a dps number and anything below it is bad and anything above it is good you dont need a damage meter. Instead operate under the assumption that everything you do is bad and can always be improved upon. Use your head, use your logic, and ask your peers if your ideas are good or bad. Look at your ship, your gear, your talent tree/traits, your rotation, anything that could affect your dps. Look at all that stuff and find some way to improve it. Hell for the first two years i never used a damage meter but then one day my Scim in XII rep gear did an Infected Space Elite (pre-DR) and everyone did really good and someone linked me meters and it said i did 36k dps or something like that. I guess it was really good i dont know...the guy told me that it was. And all i ever did was constantly try to improve upon what i was already doing.
A lot of the stuff in the 'endgame' is quite incremental. Traits, gear upgrades, finding console synergies, specialisations, all work on wanting to get that extra few percentage improvement here or there, but with no feedback from the game's systems it often just seems pointless.
Also, a lot of the stuff, is pretty self explanatory, as in if it says it increases X, than it's probably a good idea to have it no?
Many people, don't even bother to actually read into a description, heck many don't even read ANY descriptions on any thing so, it's no wonder they are behind in performance.
It's like grabbing a bottle of asprin, without ever reading the label.
How do you even know, what you grabbed was asprin? Or, what ingredients are in it? What possible side effects could it have? How many should I take? Etc, etc, etc....
Guess the best way to find out, is just take it and, hope you got it right, right?
This isn't the old days and, back than there was hardly any regulations on performance evening the playing field either.
Today, many associations put restrictions in place, to keep the playing field even so, every team tries to find any legal advantage they can and, data logging helps.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Most of the time I was in raids in wow the DPS meter was used by the raid leader to yell at me to lower my dps because my threat was higher than the tank.
Everytime I pug Gate to Grethor Advanced I wish my pug mates had DPS meters. Because at the last boss it feels like I am soloing it. Many puggies do not seem to be contributing much damage which means it can take more than 10 minutes to finish the boss.. Every once in a while I get lucky and there are some 10k DPS League players in my pug. Makes the STF soo much easier... What kind of moron resents high dps on his team?
Me! Cause honestly, the higher the DPS of the team...the sillier I feel for running the content.
If they're going to have 20k, 30k, 50k, 75k+ DPS possible...they should have content that's requiring that kind of DPS...no? Cause if you've got those folks doing content that requires 7-15k...well...yeah, it just seems silly.
Well, there's Hive, balanced at 50k+ teams, and Herald (or the other new one, I don't remember), which I haven't tried yet, but the initial tests looked murderous on elite.
But there's no mention of so, soooooooooooooooooooo many elite queues that we were told we'd get back...
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
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Well, I guess you were happy in school when you could select who will be in your [insert sport]-teams so you didnt have anybody with you who was capable of actually playing it well, eh?
Its not the players making the content silly, its the content and the development strategy being silly. If there was a feedback mechanism, DR wouldnt have hit so hard (it didnt hit the DPS-Chans for example, though there still was some minor ranting). If you increase the average joe performance you can increase the difficulty too, it might even induce the need of learning a few mechanics so the average joe can adapt to new situations on its own.
Meh, I can barely find a pug to do HSA...and the folks I've tried to talk about coming back to run HSE just /facepalm me.
I'm still wondering why Cryptic hasn't done ISE/CSE/KSE yet...hrmmm.
Have you been following the Advanced thread? Can't even convince people that the queues tell folks what to do much less expect more of them...
Wrong anecdote .
See, in school sports , nobody picks the best players to be on one team and the mid weights & bad players to be on the other team .
Same in PVP matches that good fleets did (when PVP was still a thing) .
Now in contrast to those two examples , we have quite a few declerations here on the forums from DPS channel members who say that they have no interest in "carrying ppl" -- when in school sports , and PVP, and pro team sports, and any group effort where there is no 1:1 equality present -- the aces always "carry" the team .
... kinda gives you a clue @ who sucked so bad in RL teams that they had to go online to create their fantasy "team" using fantasy standards that don't hold up in RL ...
Also if Cryptic is going to do it they will need new servers just for the parcer(s) to run, never going to happen, server lag when 1000 people playing will be insane.
Maybe if you read and think about the sentence I quoted from virus, you might see why I came up with such an metaphor. He was basically saying "Good players make the game too easy" which implies he would rather choose average/bad players to be on his team, since they dont make it that easy. So I simply asked if he would do/think the same in RL.
But your counterargument only holds against friendly matches, in real matches each team would bring in their best players, not a mix of good and bad. And then you would only carry if someone was still below average (but on of the best in the team).
I know, we always have a more forgiving look on what we like (in your case I guess its pvp), but in any real match you simply want to win. Training you do in trainingmatches, and yes, there you would look to have balanced teams.